37 replies to this topic

[DuBisk]

"There is a "First time" doing a specific dungeon for everyone." This sounds right, but have you ever run a dungeon for like 2 and an half hour, and then all the raid members quit? It's quite frustrating, you know.

[Leinzan]

Gotta agree with the language one, that REALLY is a troublesome one...

[Ishvarna]

When a party cares less about whether you can heal and more about what pets you have. (Oh! Topical~)

[Greven79]

I forgot to answer, sry.

 

There is the general rule: "ALL move out of any area effect / zone" and maybe even "drag the boss out of any AoE / zone as well". It's not just a rule for tanks but DPS as well.

 

If you do PvE hard, it can happen that Pertus first casts some sparks (zone damage) and shortly thereafter jumps in the air, stunning everyone as he smashes down. If someone is still in the sparks, there won't be any heal (healer is stunned), no pots (you're stunned) but maybe a LoR.

 

There is only one exception to this: Blue circle on Bapho H.

 

Side-note on Moonie

Spoiler

I tested the usual statements known from the internet and there are a lot of mistakes. F.e. there is no connection between her purple or cyan attack and the whistle and in my opinion no connection to the blue circle. You can repeat this easily. If you attack her once and then stop fighting and just soaking damage, she will cast the purple attacks in a seemingly regular frequency. No blue circle here, Likewise, I stood in the blue circle for the whole time and tried to find out the damage difference, I got no remarkable difference here (hard to test though, since I was dodging the damage most of the time).  If you do another test and run through normal mode with four lvl 50 chars (we were pushing a guild member), you can damage her fast enough that you have multiple blue circles at the same time. All in all, the damage was managable even for the lvl 30 char. So in my opinion, there is another bonus done by the blue circle.

 

Don't get me wrong on this. it IS extremely hard to explain the dungeon to first-timers, especially if you cheat it. And CoA is cheated in every single aspect. Beside Robberbug, no boss is done as it was intented and I'm not so sure about the bug either. Once, I was so frustrated during a CoA raid, that I wrote this in the raid chat:

 

TANKS DON'T MOVE

The rest has only one **** task

MOVE OUT OF THE SPARKS

 

Yes, I did use caps lock back then and I feel guilty now.

 

But in general, if all stick to a few simple rules, you can even do the raids without explaining too much. To be trolling a bit: Don't invite melee DPS and you halved your problems as a priest.

 

A final word about LoR though

Yes, there is the misclicking issue here (since raids prevent a correct F1 to F5 key order) and it's hard to switch between boss and tank again. Usually, you can reduce this a bit if you use the "current target of the selected person" feature.

 

You're also right that there are times where it comes in handy to use the LoR on yourself and therefore on every ranged dps or support character nearby. But even in these cases, I honestly doubt that the total damage healed in this way is nearly as high as if a sorcerer would have casted it on the main tank instead.

 

A good priest casts Renovatio whenever the situation isn't critical (usually, when the tank is >75% HP), so every LoR on the Main Tank makes it more likely that the ranged dps and support characters will have a LoR-replacement instead.

[Greven79]

"There is a "First time" doing a specific dungeon for everyone." This sounds right, but have you ever run a dungeon for like 2 and an half hour, and then all the raid members quit? It's quite frustrating, you know.

 

Well, it's even worse for me. I am a european gamer with a regular job who can play from 7-11 PM only. And Coloseum starts at 10 PM (or 9 PM winter time). So for me, first timers are a minor problem if compared to "I have to leave soon". And quite interestingly, the bosses in CoA f.e. were quite easy when I've done it with 6+ first timers, because they were a) eager to listen and pot-ting quite early.

 

It's more frustrating to see a 'professional' ranger attacking the speakers without any warning, dying with 2 strikes and then blaming the tank for not luring MiniMongi in the opposite direction.

[Greven79]

When a party cares less about whether you can heal and more about what pets you have. (Oh! Topical~)

 

This is a reasonable issue:

 

6 Embus and you can do ratmaster without any healer.

A lvl 4 mermaid can deal 700 damage per second to multiple targets.

An Elder Assassin or Willow can heal quite a lot what can make a huge difference in raids.

 

So I don't blame the users of actually (ab)using the tools the designers have given them.

 

In my opinion, the pets have ruined more than just Colo and caused more stupid things than just "Embus / 30s" runs. Right now, rather than buying any card or hoping to replace the CoA N gear with CoA H equivalent, I catch me farming DNA to get the pets to a higher level. Since a higher level pet or an reduced pet cooldown is by MILES better than every weapon enhancement, card, gear or set bonus.

[raela]

I forgot to answer, sry.

 

There is the general rule: "ALL move out of any area effect / zone" and maybe even "drag the boss out of any AoE / zone as well". It's not just a rule for tanks but DPS as well.

 

If you do PvE hard, it can happen that Pertus first casts some sparks (zone damage) and shortly thereafter jumps in the air, stunning everyone as he smashes down. If someone is still in the sparks, there won't be any heal (healer is stunned), no pots (you're stunned) but maybe a LoR.

 

There is only one exception to this: Blue circle on Bapho H.

 

But we're talking about people potentially new to the dungeons/raids/game, with language barrier issues, just plain don't listen, etc etc.. Yes, if a player knows the basics (ANY player - support has to know this, and can fail at it, just as much), they should be getting out of any ground targeted crap. Some stuff is easier to see (most people tend to run from red/blue/green circles), but the sparks in particular tend to be difficult, especially if they end up on a LoR. All a part of the learning process, but you can't expect it out of people always. :/ Thus, new players can become a healer hazard, even with people yelling to get out of the sparkles/circle/whatever.

 

Side-note on Moonie

Spoiler

I tested the usual statements known from the internet and there are a lot of mistakes. F.e. there is no connection between her purple or cyan attack and the whistle and in my opinion no connection to the blue circle. You can repeat this easily. If you attack her once and then stop fighting and just soaking damage, she will cast the purple attacks in a seemingly regular frequency. No blue circle here, Likewise, I stood in the blue circle for the whole time and tried to find out the damage difference, I got no remarkable difference here (hard to test though, since I was dodging the damage most of the time).  If you do another test and run through normal mode with four lvl 50 chars (we were pushing a guild member), you can damage her fast enough that you have multiple blue circles at the same time. All in all, the damage was managable even for the lvl 30 char. So in my opinion, there is another bonus done by the blue circle.

 

Don't get me wrong on this. it IS extremely hard to explain the dungeon to first-timers, especially if you cheat it. And CoA is cheated in every single aspect. Beside Robberbug, no boss is done as it was intented and I'm not so sure about the bug either. Once, I was so frustrated during a CoA raid, that I wrote this in the raid chat:

 

TANKS DON'T MOVE

The rest has only one **** task

MOVE OUT OF THE SPARKS

 

Yes, I did use caps lock back then and I feel guilty now.

 

But in general, if all stick to a few simple rules, you can even do the raids without explaining too much. To be trolling a bit: Don't invite melee DPS and you halved your problems as a priest.

 

The blue circle puts a damage buff on Moonie. Her AoE attack is quite normal (and sounds like it's on a timer), whereas her blue circles are based on HP. In situations where the party is the same level as her, the tank should totally be pulling her out every time.

 

I still don't see how cheating it is more to explain than doing it legit - it comes down to "sit here and don't do anything until I tell you" vs. "here, listen to these mechanics and react accordingly." I don't like bugging bosses, at all. Hell, I haven't even really gone into CoA because I know most of the playerbase doesn't find anything wrong with chain pulling and the like. My experience with Humbaba is that doing it legit will take about ~5 minutes of explanation, then people will ADD out and immediately do what you tell them not to do. If it's just one new person, explanation isn't as bad.. but a group?

 

A final word about LoR though

Yes, there is the misclicking issue here (since raids prevent a correct F1 to F5 key order) and it's hard to switch between boss and tank again. Usually, you can reduce this a bit if you use the "current target of the selected person" feature.

 

You're also right that there are times where it comes in handy to use the LoR on yourself and therefore on every ranged dps or support character nearby. But even in these cases, I honestly doubt that the total damage healed in this way is nearly as high as if a sorcerer would have casted it on the main tank instead.

 

A good priest casts Renovatio whenever the situation isn't critical (usually, when the tank is >75% HP), so every LoR on the Main Tank makes it more likely that the ranged dps and support characters will have a LoR-replacement instead.

 

I tend to run into glitched out targets fairly often, where the tank is shown as targeting another party member even though it's hitting the boss. If there are two sorcs, having one on melee and one on ranged could be beneficial.. assuming targeting works okay.

 

Without earth seal up, a maxed LoR is half as efficient as renovatio (so pulling up seal turns it into a group reno on potentially 4~8 targets), which really isn't that bad - I could be wrong, but don't sorcs get higher matk than priests? Also, LoR can crit. By keeping it always on the ranged (where practical), this puts much less stress on the priests. You mentioned the stun + sparks above.. what's more useful, LoR helping a tank that can soak up a ton of damage to begin with, or LoR on the support for when there's a stun + AoE situation? I have totally been double AoE'd in PVE before, with LoR as the only healing going on..

 

That being said, if things have gone so badly that I feel I have to switch to supporting on my sorc, the LoR tends to go to the tank, and I will deluge/pot to help myself as needed.

[Greven79]

The blue circle puts a damage buff on Moonie. Her AoE attack is quite normal (and sounds like it's on a timer), whereas her blue circles are based on HP. In situations where the party is the same level as her, the tank should totally be pulling her out every time.

 

Well usually, you get a visual if a boss got any boni (f.e. Aromine and the white circle, Xeno Spider and a blue circle in PvE H). I've tested this 5min ago with Moonie and I got nothing. So either it is a hidden modification or there is no buff at all.

 

I still don't see how cheating it is more to explain than doing it legit - it comes down to "sit here and don't do anything until I tell you" vs. "here, listen to these mechanics and react accordingly." I don't like bugging bosses, at all. Hell, I haven't even really gone into CoA because I know most of the playerbase doesn't find anything wrong with chain pulling and the like. My experience with Humbaba is that doing it legit will take about ~5 minutes of explanation, then people will ADD out and immediately do what you tell them not to do. If it's just one new person, explanation isn't as bad.. but a group?

 

A good example of what I mean is Mini-&-Mongi. If you do them in a legit way, there is no explanation needed. It ought to be a general rule to kill the adds (speakers) first and you could use strategy markers to define an order. So everything should be fine. That the duo casts an AoE, throws a Micro and creates traps is more or less the usual stuff. Even the tornado should be known from the robberbug already.

 

However if you trick them, it can take a while to explain.

 

For the first three CoA bosses (Piani, Bukari and Guitari), it's not just the "chain-pulling". you do much more. First of all, you kill the adds and then reset them. Then, you might explain that noone steps into the water to prevent reset. Then you might choose someone to kite the cloud (hits the one who stands the furthest away). Then you do the chain pull thing, but you can stop after the 2nd boss, define a Sanctuary order, use butterfly wings on the rest and attack the DoT boss.

 

Same is true for Aromine. If you do it the way it was planned, there is nothing special about her. However, if you start to explain who is going to reset Kebugi or the frogs and who will cast Sanctuary first, if the AoE goes towards the bridge, it might takes a while.

 

Humbaba might be an excuse here, that's right, but all you have to do is to either kill Pleasure or have an Offtank drag them and move more than 30m away from Humbaba.... that's it. The trio only buffs Humbaba, if they lose HP, so it's just a lame for the Offtank standing next to them and soaking damage without even attacking.... but nothing special.

 

 

I tend to run into glitched out targets fairly often, where the tank is shown as targeting another party member even though it's hitting the boss. If there are two sorcs, having one on melee and one on ranged could be beneficial.. assuming targeting works okay.

 

Can't tell much about the frequency though, since my Sorcerer can't do raids yet. I know this bug in normal parties as well, but either you have a much higher rate in general or it is raid-specific. For me, this works quite well.

 

When I play the Priest, I am used to play with a "very high camera view" and I also change the position of the raid windows to reduce the chance for any glitches to happen.

 

Without earth seal up, a maxed LoR is half as efficient as renovatio (so pulling up seal turns it into a group reno on potentially 4~8 targets), which really isn't that bad - I could be wrong, but don't sorcs get higher matk than priests?

 

Also, LoR can crit. By keeping it always on the ranged (where practical), this puts much less stress on the priests. You mentioned the stun + sparks above.. what's more useful, LoR helping a tank that can soak up a ton of damage to begin with, or LoR on the support for when there's a stun + AoE situation? I have totally been double AoE'd in PVE before, with LoR as the only healing going on.

 

Well, it doesn't matter if the LoR is half as strong as a Renovatio... that's still fine. What I was saying is that if you cast it on a tank and it isn't a boss where the tank has to run around alot, you still heal on a regular basis. If you cast it on yourself, it only heals if someone gets damaged 'back there'. But in all the raids I know, this only happens on AoE effects. But these attacks usually deal 3k damage, so any "half-renovatio" is nearly irrelevant then... you need pots, sanct. or deluge.

[Nekogatari]

I was constantly abused for not healing the DPS when clearly I was focused on keeping the MT alive while reno everyone when I can. People in this game. |:

[lalafujinatsu]

this topic is getting serious

 

#HealerProblems Healing Squishy Tank, Spam Heal, Getting scolded for not healing

#HealerProblems Spam heal, adds coming over

#HealerProblems Running away from adds which isnt being killed, get silence

#HealerProblems Tank Dies, Healer's Fault

#HealerProblems DPS Dies, Healer's Fault

#HealerProblems Healer Dies, Getting scolded cos not using pot

#HealerProblems "HEAL MEE!!" "I AM DPS!!" #DPSPriestProblems

[raela]

Helping a friend with his slightly underleveled character through CGS, with my sorc..

Drake enrages.. I'm tanking, say don't worry.. he taunts and tries to kite enrage!Drake.

I TOLD YOU I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO DIE.

And then I feel like the worst healer.

(I agree, back to light-hearted fun <3)

[sinkie52hell]

one irritating thing i noticed was that tanks sometimes will run out of range of my heals. this usually happens when they panicked at having received a great deal of damage.

 

next time you want a heal? run towards the priests and not away from them.

[Chocs]

one irritating thing i noticed was that tanks sometimes will run out of range of my heals. this usually happens when they panicked at having received a great deal of damage.

 

next time you want a heal? run towards the priests and not away from them.

I've had this issue too, but sometimes the tank does it in case boss faces party and AoE wipe the raid.