30 replies to this topic

[Gluttannie]

Is Mark of Genocide worth getting? I feel like it's a waste seeing how you need to spend 4 extra points for an additional 1.6% crit rate. The only reason I would've maxed this was because it was the only party buff for rogues, but now that MoD is getting improved, wouldn't maxing MoD + MD (since there aren't enough points for all 3) yield a better total DPS for the party and myself?

[SparklingLimeade]

If one party wide buff becomes good it does not automatically make another better. MoG is just as terrible as ever.

[xxalucard]

You're right that Mark of Genocide sucks, but Mark of Death sucks even more.  At least Mark of Genocide is constantly active on everyone for it's duration (and can be instantly re-applied at will).  Mark of Death is lackluster even as a party buff and honestly needs more than a 10% bonus to be worth considering over everything else we have. 

 

The 1.6% crit buff by itself is nothing-- but, to quote a friend of mine-- "Every little bit counts!" 

 

Also, people will laugh at you and insult you if they notice a .4% crit buff instead of the usual 2%.  You'll get a headache explaining why it barely does anything (and they'll be like a brick wall with listening to you).  Later in the raid you or someone else will die, or the boss will run off with 100k or less hp, and some guy who really sucked the entire raid will turn around and blame you & your level 1 mark of genocide.  The other raid members will blindly agree with him, forgetting that he was the one who happened to stand in the giant obvious red circle until he died.  Then everyone will be mad, you'll feel drained, and some guy will say "nice job inviting the noob rogue" right before he rage quits.

 

Trust me, putting 5 points in mark of genocide, even if it's just to shut people up, is more than worth it. 

 

Plus, in the long run, it -does- add up on your total crit rate (even though it's not much), and iIMO it's not as bad as some rogues think.  I completely understand why you'd think it's a waste, since on paper that 1.6% increase does look like nothing.  But it is something my friend, it is something

 

 

[Gluttannie]

If one party wide buff becomes good it does not automatically make another better. MoG is just as terrible as ever.

I think you might've misunderstood. My stance is that MoG is indeed terrible, but I have seen people asking only for melee DPS with maxed out MoG, even going as far as kicking those who don't have it. But now that MoD is better, I am hoping it gives less of a emphasis on the level of MoG.

@Alucard:

Thanks for the input. However, MoD coupled with DP can make it a decent buff for the party. Wouldn't a +10% damage be a good substitute for a +1.6% crit rate? I know it's not a constant +10% but there's also no way to guarantee crits with MoG.

Edited by Gluttannie, 25 August 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[SparklingLimeade]

Ah, right MoD + MD, not MoD + MoG. Just woke up. I see now.

 

Only people I've ever raided with didn't care what MoG level was so I don't know about that aspect. My guild leader has it at level 1. Any reasonable person should realize that rogues will be considerably more desirable after the buffs if they have either buffed skill.

 

What's the total uptime of MoD? If it's on 20% of the time it will be more damage than MoG. 2% damage 20% of the time = .4% damage. And the new MD numbers are pretty insane so I'm pretty sure that will be a no brainer if they really do double the whole thing.

[mysticalre]

building a good skilltree is really hard if the changes go through - it's not as easy as just simply maxing both party buffs

 

maxing the crit buff is hard now, you literally have to give up something... and something important too

 

If you want to have both party buffs, you have to start digging away at core skills, like dropping Gangster's Paradise levels, or lowering a lvl of Unstable Doping to 4/5, or using 4/5 deadly blow.

 

again, it's really really hard to make a solid skill build now... probably needs a lot of testing too

[ZT0100]

MoD is only 30 seconds and is used on one target! MoG is 30 minutes and gives a constant 2%.

 

Theoretically, in 30 seconds if you use an attack 30 times then you basically get 3 extra hits. That's like 10 extra hits every 99 hits, compared to 2 extra hits out of 100 hits because of MoG. But let's not forget the MoG is active all the time and MoD has that long-_- CD. The 30 seconds is what makes MoD suck because there are times when you won't be able to get in all 30 hits within 30 seconds to make the most use of it. It would be nicer if it's a party buff that gives an extra 10% for 30 min, but that's not happening. Also, you have to lose an extra point to max MoD over MoG.

 

It's not even that good as the assassin above thinks.

 

MoD

Pros:

- 10% damage increase

 

Cons:

- 30 seconds

- 120 seconds CD

- One target

- 1 second cast time in battle

 

MoG

Pros:

- 30 minutes

- Applies to all mobs

 

Cons:

2% crit only

 

MoD

30 seconds/ 120 seconds = 1/4. Since you get to use it 25% of the time, 1/4 of 10%= 2.5% increase in all skills at all times.

 

MoG

2% crits mean you get 2 extra hits(200%) in 100 hits. 200%/ 100 hits= 2% damage for each hits on average.

 

MoD provides more damage, but it's not better than the consistency of MoG.

 

Edited by ZT0100, 25 August 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[Leinzan]

well MoD is, ironically enough, a skill you could use before running away if only rDPS can attack, because that way you can use them them to do your work XD!

[mysticalre]

btw, an optimal rotation for mark of death uptime (and any 2 minute cooldown) goes like this:

 

Mark of Death (5/5) (cooldown: 120s, post-vigor (17% full colo): 99.6s

Dirty Plan (3/5) (cooldown: 160s, post-vigor (17% full colo): 132.8s

 

Difference: 33.2 (Mark of death lasts 30 seconds btw!)

 

 

One rotation works like this:

1. Mark of Death with 5 combo pts (100s cd start)

 

[Within the next 30 seconds, do this]

2. Cast moonlight dance (16sec CD start)

3. Cast moonlight dance (5-7 seconds left on mark)

4. Dirty plan (132s CD start)

(optional: using a 3rd moonlight after DP is even better lol, but you can also do this after re-applying mark)

 

5. Second Mark of Death (100s CD start)

 

 

Notice: After #5, 100 seconds later:

- You will have Mark of Death ready

- Dirty Plan will be 30 seconds remaining

- Repeat #1-5

- Total time: 30s (first mark uptime) + 100s (the moment you apply 2nd mark, CD starts)

- Mark uptime: 60s / 130s = ~46%

- Moonlights benefitted by mark: 4 (3 first 30s, 1 next 30s... OR 2,2 if you play more lazy)

 

Of course, it's just theory, you might end up forgetting to cast it or chain it properly at random times. The only thing that sucks is that it can miss, but since it'll be a party buff I don't think we can complain lol

 

edit: forgot that MD after vigor is like 16s too, might be able to squeeze in 5 with DP

Edited by mysticalre, 26 August 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[Gluttannie]

^The rotation described by Mysticalre was the reason I am contemplating on dropping lvl 5 MoG for lvl 5 MoD. With DP, it feels more "consistent" than the extra 1.6% crit rate (as in, it'll have more reliable returns).

[Leinzan]

hmm, that rotation seems legit... but «Moonlight Drive» would have about 16 seconds on fresh cooldown, not plain 20 seconds XP

[mysticalre]

hmm, that rotation seems legit... but «Moonlight Drive» would have about 16 seconds on fresh cooldown, not plain 20 seconds XP

 

crap I forgot to include vigor for MD, that'd be even better, ty

[ZT0100]

So, in conclusion... MoD > MoG?

[Leinzan]

Pretty much yea

[ZT0100]

Well, I love PvPing, so I think I am just going to stick to MoG. Are you rogues built for PvP or PvE!? All of you here seem to be Colo champions, so I just don't get why you guys would favor MoD over MoG..

Edited by ZT0100, 26 August 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[Leinzan]

hmmm =___=a

 

This is my current build: http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

It is something between Ninja-AoE-CC-Tanky-Solo-Autoheal-Ranged-antilaggy-focused DPS

AAAAAND works fine for me in both PvP and PvE on either during hide or outside of it...

 

 

SO, no points to spare XP

[mysticalre]

I've been using this one for some time now: http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

 

it's made for pve/raids only though, I'm going to try to have mog & mod after the patch... somehow lol

[Gluttannie]

My build right now is completely Colo based, so I will be getting rid of that as soon as I complete my set.

 

This is (tentatively) what I'm resetting to: http://www.ro2base.c...310543.22310543

 

I really didn't want to do that to poor MD, but I feel like there's no better alternative if I wanted both MoG and MoD. Since melee DPS pretty much has to take care of themselves, I didn't want to lower Gangster Paradise. I suppose I could swap the points for MD and Unstable Doping though.

[Leinzan]

Maybe you should take those 2 points from combo training to «Moonlight Drive» and «Rolling Cutter», «Dirty Plan» or «Smoke Bomb». (or at least only one for MD)

 

RC allows you to take a mob away from others and still kite it, it has a range of 4.5m and is half a «Double Attack» in damange, using it in combination with «Gangster Paradise» is great to stall for time, do good damange and survive in dire situations being an "Elusive Tank"

 

Investing on DP might allow you to do some stuffs faster... but on second thought it might hinder your «Mark of Death» rotation, so might not be the best of the options... however it is always good as an emergency.

 

SB is simply awesome, and with the new MD thats coming is simply even more, you could do the 20 THOUSAND STRIKE every time you have SB and DP off cooldown! Also SB is a very good skill to solo run a dungeon to the end without having to hide if you combine a running DA & «Dual Stab» with GP and simply SB if something goes wrong. Another utility I simply love about SB is that if some boss locks a blue circle AoE on you, like Executioner Meister, you can use it to cancel his attack and save your companions from its threat

Edited by Leinzan, 26 August 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Gluttannie]

The build I posted was for pure raiding (I have better classes for other things), which means I wouldn't need Rolling Cutter since it's the OT's job to grab aggro. As for Smoke Bomb and MD I was really conflicted since I didn't want to lose either, so I suppose I could lose Combo Training and max MD and get 2/3 SB. But I can't help but feel that CT helps more in the long run.

[Leinzan]

uhm, well, I was just pointing up some nice things that have the skills I was recomending, not really telling you to use them.

you know just how much of a freak I am >___>!!

this skill has got me about 5 kills in colo now and saved my and my companion's ass on hard dungeons cuz we dual them.

also a pretty good skill if you are helping lowies to lvl and you need to act as a "tank" in place, altho you are not one, of course.

 

anyway, you could leave «Combo Training» at 2/3 and I really think you'll barely notice any difference, after all its 10% and almost the same as «Combo Mastery» and its 9% on lvl 3, its always nice to have one extra combo point fast and it feels even better when it procs on «Dual Stab», so I know how you feel...

However on the new patch «Moonlight Drive» is getting a boost, so «Deadly Blow» importance on the 5 combo points completion will be overtaken by it, unless its on Cooldown and any other of the Combo Point sinker skills arent a priority.

I really feel now that MD should be a MUST max... that is, if the rumor about double damange results in reality.

[Gluttannie]

^ I know what you mean with Rolling Cutter, it's always nice to know different perspectives. It's just that I have other geared classes that I do other things with (OBB/farming/lvling lowbies/etc) and I don't plan on Coloing after I get my set since I'll be Coloing on new characters xD, so the skill wouldn't be much use to me personally. I appreciate your opinions on it though.

 

Indeed, if the damage is a flat +100% damage, then I would probably forfeit a point in Combo Training in order to max MD. I still think DB is crucial though, since MD does have a ~16s cool down, and you'll probably end up using DB 3 or more times between each MD.

[Leinzan]

nope, DB doesnt lose value at all, but between MD and DB if both are avilable and you have the 5 combo points of CM procceded, then you'll choose MD by default.

there still exists the chance to get the OH SO BEAUTIFUL INFINITY DEADLY BLOW STRIKES from the chained «Combo Mastery» procs, sooooo no less points for «Deadly Blow» XP

 

I see you have your preferences, in my case I only use one char, the rest works for him XP

I simply dislike the idea of limiting him too much with the buffs soooo not gonna make him a "supporter" Rogue. (cuz thats how it sounds with the buffs).

 

Oh btw, just sharing some curious info.

 

The other day we ended up with a weird setup to kill Bapho in hard mode, when the bombers came out a priest stunned one of them, and I aproached it in those 3 seconds to «Crescent Moon» it and finish it on the ground... yup, it is possible to melee them >=D!

Edited by Leinzan, 26 August 2013 - 10:23 PM.

[5344130512045108620]

http://forums.playpa...and-discussion/

 

You can have MoD up for 2 min for a 3min 30 sec fight - with only lvl 2 DP. And thats not even taking vigor into account. Personally I recommend this build (leaving MoG at lvl 1) - leave sins to max MoG. This way you can maximise dps on boss by having 1 of each rogue/sin/wiz/ranger as the dps in raids.

[Leinzan]

eww no smoke bomb >___>!!!

altho I agree with your logic, sins have it much easer to max MoG without hindering their build.

leaving MoG to sin might be the best thing to do, specially if raid ppl is open enough to accept 2 mDPS (which is rare from what I've heard)