43 replies to this topic

[5391130503175245443]

I am hearing from rogue players that their damage has been increased after the last patch (supposedly doing significantly increased damage especially from hiding).

 

Is this true?  I would like to hear from some rogue players.  Thank you in advance!

[KuroHono]

I think Moonlight Dance/Drive was from 110% - - -> 150%. I havent played a Rogue in a long time though

[Leinzan]

yup «Moonlight Drive» got modified from 110 to 150% as KuroHono just said.

Also «Mark of Death» now gives at 5/5 a bonus of 20% Rogue damange on marked target and 10% bonus damange on any other party/raid member.

[nubbykiddo]

As if sins didn't have enough trouble finding a raid group.

[Denvalas]

And on top of that Dope is bugged, on the 1pm colo yesterday i manged to get both buffs at the same time(20%Crit/AP).

[7473130511053806230]

And on top of that Dope is bugged, on the 1pm colo yesterday i manged to get both buffs at the same time(20%Crit/AP).

 

....

 

[Leinzan]

And on top of that Dope is bugged, on the 1pm colo yesterday i manged to get both buffs at the same time(20%Crit/AP).

Eh? Really? Are you sure you didn't use a boost potion by accident?

I'll have to pay attention then... didn't see that happen to me yesterday... maybe because I played with my sin the most =____=a

[Zechrem]

Geez can we monks get a update of some sort... this eternity?

[5391130503175245443]

As if sins didn't have enough trouble finding a raid group

The question that was posed was about damage buff.  Nothing was said about finding parties.

 

I am glad that rogues got their party buff now. In fact, I believe any class should be able to have at least 1 party/group buff.

 

What I do not understand is why rogues received dps buff.  It isn't like they were doing horribly in PvE or PvP.  With the doping skill and gansters' paradise.  They have been a good source of DPS.  So why did they receive the buff?

 

120% to 150% on 1 skill and total of 20% self atk pwr buff???  On top of that the existing doping is going to increase so much dps for rogues.

 

I hope zanbee or any of the dev team members could answer reasoning behind this dps buff.

[VriskaTsubaki]

1st.- our MoD can Miss... so it's not like we're having it always, 2.- GP needs 5 Combo points to be usefull... 3.-We don't have any non invisible gapcloser, 4.- While all the classes have a "Burst" Skill we got Moonlight Dance, that in description seems to be strong but you'll never get more than 2k damage even full buffed, now it have decent damage.

 

I don't get why assassins are QQing about the buff for the rogue, they still have PERMANENT 30% Attack and 30% Movement Speed on shadow form, we Rogues Still walk like if we have Diapers >__<

And yet, Assassins are more oriented to PvP and still are on the top threat of the melee dps. 

 

[Leinzan]

Im playing both Sin and Rogue, but gotta say that in comparison to my Rogue, Sin is doing REALLY well in colo, even tho he has no colo gears and he isnt even PvP oriented... (I orignally only wanted him to farm plants for pots)

 

In fact, my Rogue was sucking ass in colo up until I got a VIP, colo accesories and 1 colo armor, guess the reason? And then had to go through a skill re-spec before finally being able to stand his ground on par with the big shots of the game.

 

Now Rogues have a reason to be a real threat and no one would deal with us carelessly whereas before we were no more than free points outside of hide and while keeping a 3m distance, not like thats much my case now, but Im sure it'll be if I gave up the VIP.

 

Assassins not only restore their power and speed in a split second after the respawn, while Rogues need to struggle for 24 seconds using master pots (or about 60 using lvl 5 pots) to reach only half of that same goal since they have no movement improving. They can chase just fine, «Dagger Throw» + «Grimtooth» followed by «Shadow Assault» is an awesome mid~long range combo. Hunting full hp people is easy and each of their attacks (including the ranged ones) allows them to summon «Shadow Fiend» which is an auto-attack almost as good as a «Double Attack».

 

Assassins might not have that many power boosts, but they have plenty of extra damange, not to mention that they can max «Mark of Death» and «Poison Weapon» without hindering their power balance.

 

Heck, they dont even need to hide! they could start a round in colo straight in the open and they would still be dangerous to deal with!

[nubbykiddo]

The question that was posed was about damage buff. Nothing was said about finding parties.

The question was answered.(not by me because my post was clearly a QQ) but my point was that since rogues got a huge buff on their damage, their overall dps will increase by a lot. Then add the 10% more damage for the party. Everyone's going to want rogues in their party/raid group now to kill bosses faster, even if that debuff thing doesn't last long ;o

While I do agree with you that it's helpful for each member to have one party skill, since rogues now have two that can help a group, they're going to be more wanted while the sins are left alone within the shadows. (Well, they ARE the shadows..)

But you want me to answer to the topic? Fine, gosh. Yes rogues got a buff. I noticed there were more rogues in the later rounds in my past few colos because of it. It was fun. from these posts that I've been reading, though I'm not sure if they're facts, they can get a total of 50% DMG bonus for a short period of time. (Fully doped and that mark thingy. OH and that str dope too, but that's by chance) but idk much about rogues 'cuz my rogue just farms herbs xD

Edited by nubbykiddo, 30 August 2013 - 04:07 AM.

[Leinzan]

the Rogue to farm herbs O___O;;;;

they are slow for that, but oh well thats your decision.

on my part, Im thinking about a re-spec for my sin cuz they are cool too.

 

the buff is useless for PvP, or at least is kinda pointless... «MoD» is a single target every 2 minutes, and lasts for 30 seconds, after all... on another note «MoD» was supposed to be a party buff since the beggining, it was changed to "only Rogues" in this server. In the end they just restored the original effect, the thing is that they also added another 10% damange from Rogues, so its a 20%...

 

«MD» got a boost of 40%, not 50%, it wasn't even doubled as rumored at the beggining.

 

In the end you'll see bigger numbers coming from a Rogue, but more numbers coming from a Sin.

[7473130511053806230]

Ok so I was talking to a rogue who quit today and I tried to convince him to come back by telling him about the rogue buff, and he laughed so hard and said that WP is breaking the game because rogues are the class that needed the buff the least because doping is OP. He said he always made final round in colo with only green equips before he was even 50 and that a buff is just retarded. 

 

He went on to say that the only thing assassin had over rogues was our mobility and our damage output, and now with the improvement to MoD and MD, it makes sins just faster moving sub-par dps dealers compared to rogues now.

I want to ask the honest opinion of a rogue who mains rogue and is currently active, was the buff really necessary? 

[ZT0100]

Ok so I was talking to a rogue who quit today and I tried to convince him to come back by telling him about the rogue buff, and he laughed so hard and said that WP is breaking the game because rogues are the class that needed the buff the least because doping is OP. He said he always made final round in colo with only green equips before he was even 50 and that a buff is just retarded. 

 

He went on to say that the only thing assassin had over rogues was our mobility and our damage output, and now with the improvement to MoD and MD, it makes sins just faster moving sub-par dps dealers compared to rogues now.

I want to ask the honest opinion of a rogue who mains rogue and is currently active, was the buff really necessary? 

 

A few things about what you said don't make sense.

 

1. He quit today.

- Then he already knows about the buff since it happened days ago. You didn't need to tell him. You're probably lying because of this.

 

2. Always make it to the final round with green equips from Colo, hmm?

- lol, it doesn't matter what Colo equips you have on, unless it's black and purple. "Always" making it to the final? Rogues don't have it that easy, no matter how good you are. You or this person is lying, but I think it's you.

 

3. UD is OP, is he(or you) for real?

- Colo is actually very cruel to that skill. Do either of you even play rogue?

 

4. Buff is retarded.

- How so? Rogues already have a difficult time in Colo already. This buff helps only a tiny bit. MoD is completely ineffective and MD is not gamebreaking.

 

My opinions are that this person doesn't exist and that you're lying to make it sounds like we're OP now. Guess what? We're not. Go whine about sorcerers, rangers, or something if you really want to whine about rogues in Colo. For PvE, I advise you to read up on our skills even more; it's not even that big of a change.  I ask you again, do you even play a rogue?

[Leinzan]

No 747 doesnt play Rogue, plays Assassin.

 

if we go for acomplishments, I made it to 4th round with a Thief... and even to 2nd place with my pvp-gearless Assassin.

Rogues can hide during colo up to 5 times if well timed, so making it to the finals by pure KS with «Dark Illusion» is very real.

 

if I do 2 KS on the very first minute of rounds 1 and 2, I can just sit and wait for the round to end while hidden... my rank will not pass from 18...

 

«Unestable Doping» is really "unestable" to actually tell if its OP or not, for one it takes a whole minute of lvl 5 red pots to max the «Adrenaline Rush» +30% ATK buff which we lose if we die, and there is 1/5 chance to get either +20% ATK or CRIT. It could be said we are lucky if the 20% UD ATK procs when we already have a 10% of the ATK from AR, we still tho lack the means to close gaps easily on range, and once dead you can hunt the Rogue the whole round and they'll be in complete disadventage.

 

I can only say your friend was godly lucky or amazingly skillful to reach final depending solely of UD (without hidding).

[mysticalre]

Ok so I was talking to a rogue who quit today and I tried to convince him to come back by telling him about the rogue buff, and he laughed so hard and said that WP is breaking the game because rogues are the class that needed the buff the least because doping is OP. He said he always made final round in colo with only green equips before he was even 50 and that a buff is just retarded. 

 

He went on to say that the only thing assassin had over rogues was our mobility and our damage output, and now with the improvement to MoD and MD, it makes sins just faster moving sub-par dps dealers compared to rogues now.

I want to ask the honest opinion of a rogue who mains rogue and is currently active, was the buff really necessary? 

 

 

Going to try my best to explain this as thoroughly as I can.

 

Put it this way: the buff makes Mark & Moonlight worth getting now, which means you must sacrifice something to get them. Some people have always liked MD in colo only because of its mechanics, but before, these skills literally added 0 DPS.

 

You might see it as a "OMG ITS A HUGE 110% number," but not only does it split across like 10 hits, it's also a 3.5 second animation.

 

Now consider this: in that time (3.5s), you can even use THIEF skills to make up the damage, AND do more DPS overall. The same is true for Mark of Death.

 

To make it more clear, all you gotta do is compare Time vs. Damage:

 

Moonlight Dance (110%) [3.5 seconds]

- Requires 5 Combo Pts

- Does not proc Poisoning Weapon

- Does not generate Combo Pts

- Lower Poison Weapon uptime with MD rotation (cause you spend 1/4 of your time MDing)

 

 

Thief skills (110%) [3.5 seconds]

- 1 Deadly Blow (5 Combo Pts = 60%) + 2 Double Attacks (25% x 2 = 50%), 110% total (same as MD)

- 1 DB + 2 DA are likely to trigger Poisoning Weapon

- 2 DA generated 2 Combo Points (3 if you're lucky sometimes)

- Higher Poison Weapon uptime (every single attack triggers)

 

 

Lastly, let me add one more thing:

 

Poison Weapon Mechanics

- It is not like Ranger's Poison Arrow

- Higher damage Poison Weapon overwrites lower damage ones

- This means, the more Poison Weapon PROCS you get, the higher your DOT ticks will be (on average)

- Clearly, with Thief skills, and avoiding MD usage, you have better Poisoning Weapon damage

 

Hopefully you understand now why MD was not worth getting before this patch, aside from very specific Colo situations (which can be avoided). You can use the same argument for Mark of Death, except MoD can even miss and had no Colo use either, or more like no use at all.

 

In addition to this (although it's pretty self explanatory by now), there was testing and proof that MD and MoD added 0 DPS, which means these skills were pointless for all PvE purposes, which is currently the only end-game.

Edited by mysticalre, 31 August 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[ZT0100]

Rogues can hide during colo up to 5 times if well timed, so making it to the finals by pure KS with «Dark Illusion» is very real.

I can only say your friend was godly lucky or amazingly skillful to reach final depending solely of UD (without hidding).

 

Hiding and KSing still don't make it that easy for rogues due to many reasons. I agree, if that person relied solely on the "OP" skill, UD, and always made it to the 5th round, then I should quit right away because I guess playing rogue is not meant for me; I just don't get to 5th rounds often enough!

 

Rogue is the last class to need a buff? LOL! It sure is fun chasing after people when they're like 10m+ away and shooting at you until you fall flat on your face. .

 

Man, these jelly assassins are hilarious! You should be happy that you have it easy in Colo. Many times I have seen assassins running around with that big red number 1 on their heads. Complaining about rogues being OP with UD? pfffttt! How is it OP when you can't even attack people when they're running away in the first place?

[jellopyking]

I want to ask the honest opinion of a rogue who mains rogue and is currently active, was the buff really necessary? 

 

not enough even..

MoD - it's now good for raids because it increases party damage, i guess..

 

moonlight dance - again, good for raids because of more damage..

 

now what does this mean for the pvp rogue? nothing much really, moonlight dance is still an attack that starts with baby damage and ends with a deadly blow.. rogues are still squishy, vulnerable, outdamaged and kited
 

[ZT0100]

not enough even..

MoD - it's now good for raids because it increases party damage, i guess..

 

moonlight dance - again, good for raids because of more damage..

 

now what does this mean for the pvp rogue? nothing much really, moonlight dance is still an attack that starts with baby damage and ends with a deadly blow.. rogues are still squishy, vulnerable, outdamaged and kited
 

 

Thank you! These greedy sins have the nerves to complain.

[xxalucard]

I want to ask the honest opinion of a rogue who mains rogue and is currently active, was the buff really necessary? 

 

Yes

[7473130511053806230]

A few things about what you said don't make sense.

 

1. He quit today.

- Then he already knows about the buff since it happened days ago. You didn't need to tell him. You're probably lying because of this.

 

I spoke to a Rogue who quit, Today. Happy? Punctuation. He quit 2-3 patches ago, (guess what for), and I was talking to him Today. (Yesterday)

 

ZT. stop being so butt hurt. 

 

He exists and is very real, come on our Mumble ANYTIME and have a conversation with him. You are more than welcome.

 

happyporingknights.mumble.com port 5525

 

I brought this up because HE as a ROGUE said these things. If you doubt the legitimacy of my post, come and speak to him yourself. 

 

It was not I that was complaining, but he raised points that made me raise a few eyebrows as to the necessity of the buff. Considering there's all this hubbub around sin's getting nerfed and rogues getting buffed, I wanted to hear other rogue's opinions. 

 

If you're just going to be an ^_^ about it, please just don't reply.

 

Mumble. Get your ass on. Talk to him yourself, and kindly stfu here and stop questioning my integrity. I do not need to make things up.

Edited by 7473130511053806230, 31 August 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[ZT0100]

I spoke to a Rogue who quit, Today. Happy? Punctuation. He quit 2-3 patches ago, (guess what for), and I was talking to him Today. (Yesterday)

 

ZT. stop being so butt hurt. 

 

He exists and is very real, come on our Mumble ANYTIME and have a conversation with him. You are more than welcome.

 

happyporingknights.mumble.com port 5525

 

I brought this up because HE as a ROGUE said these things. If you doubt the legitimacy of my post, come and speak to him yourself. 

 

It was not I that was complaining, but he raised points that made me raise a few eyebrows as to the necessity of the buff. Considering there's all this hubbub around sin's getting nerfed and rogues getting buffed, I wanted to hear other rogue's opinions. 

 

If you're just going to be an ^_^ about it, please just don't reply.

 

Mumble. Get your ass on. Talk to him yourself, and kindly stfu here and stop questioning my integrity. I do not need to make things up.

 

I apologized for my misunderstanding, but no need to be rude. It sounded fishy. That guy is obviously lying. I played in Colo for over a month and I am telling you it's not easy getting to the final round with rogue. Unstable Doping isn't the OP skill that he claims. It helps us deal damage very close to other classes. We lose the 30% weapon attack buff when getting killed, and we do get killed a lot by the better classes, for examples sorcerers, rangers, and the likes of them. It's absurd to say we don't need a buff, especially in Colo. We get kited constantly.

Edited by ZT0100, 31 August 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[5391130503175245443]

I spoke to a Rogue who quit, Today. Happy? Punctuation. He quit 2-3 patches ago, (guess what for), and I was talking to him Today. (Yesterday)

 

ZT. stop being so butt hurt. 

 

He exists and is very real, come on our Mumble ANYTIME and have a conversation with him. You are more than welcome.

 

happyporingknights.mumble.com port 5525

 

I brought this up because HE as a ROGUE said these things. If you doubt the legitimacy of my post, come and speak to him yourself. 

 

It was not I that was complaining, but he raised points that made me raise a few eyebrows as to the necessity of the buff. Considering there's all this hubbub around sin's getting nerfed and rogues getting buffed, I wanted to hear other rogue's opinions. 

 

If you're just going to be an ^_^ about it, please just don't reply.

 

Mumble. Get your ass on. Talk to him yourself, and kindly stfu here and stop questioning my integrity. I do not need to make things up.

 

THANK YOU!

 

Who is quick to judge?  Just because we asked the question does NOT mean we are QQing.  As I have posted, I wanted to hear rogue players opinion on whether such buffing was necessary or not.

 

Some of you are the ones who are quick to assume/think that we are QQing and asking for sin buffs just because we are asking questions.

[ZT0100]

That post was way too exaggerated, that's why I thought it wasn't authentic. I mean the dude was laughing so hard that the rogues got buffed. He also always got to the final rounds. Like seriously, against a bunch of priests, rangers, sorcerers, assassins, and wizards? He also said he made it to the final rounds with green equips. Well, if he was that good in Colo, then he would know that equips don't matter unless it's Colo gears. If he said he always made it to the final rounds with no Colo equips,  then that's more believable.

 

I am not that quick to judge, but just look at the posts made by assassins. Many of them are/were crying because of the slight buffs, which I don't think are even enough.