29 replies to this topic

[Toxn]

Turn ins:
Permanent real map styled turn ins that compliment Gramps styled TIs. Allowing players to do other turn ins for their characters if they finish their gramps turn in or if gramps TI ends up being dead or a bad selection.

How to set up NPCs:
Maps that hold the perma TIs Eden Group had a NPC that would warp you into map like similar to how Eden Group does or the Mail Annex used to do when it was around. Inside this map would contain the NPC for the TIs, Eden board quests, VIP Turn ins, Primo d'Buffer, Merry Badger, a repair NPC and a shop npc to buy supplies/sell loots. Having a place like this would make real map leveling more bearable as it extremely shortens the time spent away from the maps.

How to get there to the maps:
VIPs and pseudo-VIPs should have free access to turn in maps specifically and not be required to do entrance quests if they choose to. Non-VIPs can warp directly to the TI maps if they complete a quest of turning in items from the monsters of the TI they want to go to. Completing the warp access quest will give non-VIPs 3 days of warping to that TI. The item turn in quest should also award some EXP with a 3 day cooldown to prevent 150ing off trading in items alone. Of course VIPs can do this quest as well.

 

Turn in maps:
As turn ins used to be, the real maps that contain TIs receive a spawn boost to make turn ins on them more worthwhile. Of course using real maps could include spotlighted areas for bonus exp and drops ontop of the increased spawn.

 

Advantages:

• Permanent Turn Ins on real maps outside of the gramps TIs.
• This isn't suggesting replacing gramps completely, but compliment it in addition so that we get more choice, planning and variety in leveling.
• Players will not be stuck with just the single gramps turn in that we are randomly given each week and will have more choice, options and alternatives for leveling.
• Players can choose to level in existing purpose made maps that were balanced to be leveled in.
• Equipment requires a investment. Having equips that end up only being used once in a while is not worth the cost of these gears. Having perma TIs allows your gear to always have a purpose.
• This is a positive change the option to specialize their builds and gear for the purpose of leveling to give them an edge as opposed to making a cookie cutter leveling build for random situations.
• This isn't suggesting replacing gramps completely, but compliment it in addition so that we get more choice, planning and variety in leveling.
• Players get to explore the real RO a little more. Currently the vast majority of maps on iRO go completely unused despite having great leveling potential.
• Players can chose to continue leveling high spawn maps outside of their count quests.
• These maps can be potentially be included in future spotlights for increased exp and drops.

This post is not about sole grinding. It is about additional permanent turn ins that compliment the current gramps system. Arguing about grinding etc etc quests to gain access to additional TIs areas shouldn't be a issue. Derailing the thread to argue only this is ignoring the entire intention of this suggestion.

Edited by Toxn, 31 August 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Kadelia]

I don't really see/get what is new/proposed here? Warping to turn ins has been done in the past. It doesn't change the problem of crowding leveling maps people wanted to peacefully level on and are now getting griefced by KSers, nor the issue of 150 rangers blowing everyone through the TI quickly.

What exactly IS the gripe you have with the current gramps format?

[ZeroTigress]

I'm thinking OP wants the world maps to get some usage out of them instead of having people be teleported to instanced versions to do TIs.

'Course, the only way that could work is if they brought back the original TIs that were located on those lesser-used maps. But that would also bring back botting issues.

[kasshin]

The current system is better in every way in terms of flexibility. The only reason to have regular maps used is so people actually explore the "real" world, but VIP warp nullifies that.

[Alicesaurus]

The current turn in system is not better in every way, it has serious flaws. By putting in pernament turn in area npcs in real leveling maps you bring several important things to the table.

 

- People will actually get to explore the real world.

 

- People may choose to continue leveling in these high spawn maps after their turn.

 

- If multiple high end area turn ins are implimented eg scraba, al3, ni3, dg, bio3, rachael, nog road then people will have true flexability to select what they want to hunt or alternate between turn in timers instead of waiting 3 and 24 hours for a cooldown.

 

- If a bad turn in is selected for the week you wont be stuck with no other options.

 

Cant believe people complain about bots when any bots running in a turn in map would get ticketed so fast it would be a one way ticket *sic* to bandom.

 

I honestly dont see how vip warps detract from exploring those areas, in any rate it makes them permantly more accesable. Thats a good thing.

 

The point of this is that the normall methods for leveling in a real fashion as done on kro and other servers has been abandoned on iro in favour of gramps turn ins. People on kro actually level in these areas and iro turn ins make for a lazy iro population who dont know a life outside of gramps quests. This idea is aimed at getting people outside of this vicious loop and maybe just might want to keep leveling the real way after their count. The skills gained in leveling in these area are not taught in 12 man gramps partys so there is alot for the ro population to gain from learning to play their classes in these areas.

 

Noone is saying remove the weekly gramps but having pernamant real leveling options on real maps can compliment it, once implimented dosent need great change every week. It could offer sensable options and choice to leveling. As well as encouraging people to better know key locations and learn to play their classes. Leveling in these places often requires gear made to order/invested and by having pernamant pathways and certaincy people can commit to doing this. This is never the case with random gramps turn ins.

Edited by Alicesaurus, 30 August 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[WarlockFier]

I did had some interesting chat with Toxn about this very topic. And Toxn shared many interesting lores and stories about RO to me. =o

So I believe he knows what he is talking about for Ragnarok Online's best interest.

 

And then I found this map via random searching around, and it intrigues me how large RO's world actually is.

 

 

 This is a map you can see from the LHZ Biolab entrance quest where you look behind it.

 

 

I looked at these maps... truly excited to see RO's world continue to expand.. but then it made me wonder... What's the use of the rest of these maps, and what's the use of expanding this world when all they do is make people focus on the Gramp's randomized TI monsers in this 'special map'? Or Endless Tower where people just go through floors and floors of monsters but never really get to see where the ACTUAL MVP's home map is like?

And one TI people mentioned there's Ice Titans in Noggroad... 

 

Now that I am kind of running out of motivation to level anymore characters, I began to explore random maps and actually rather enjoyed it. Sad I didn't really get to do it while leveling (except during my low level times xD), I think it would have made my RO journey more interesting than being confined to Gramps TIs most of the time.

 

I like Gramp's Turn ins, yes, because of the mobbyness and ease at finding party, it's a lot of fun mobbing monsters in small maps... But I believe the same can be done in actual maps if they were properly structured similarly to the current TIs, increased spawns and ease of getting warped there. I don't know if this makes the GM's work harder, but I would like to see Ragnarok Online being, well, Ragnarok Online again, not Instance and Gramps TI Online. It's killing RO.

Edited by WarlockFier, 30 August 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[Porcelain]

I find after returning to RO after a long hiatus that started when renewal hit that the posters pushing for change have the right idea. I'm pretty apalled at the current leveling situation. It's easy enough with BMs and resets to 150 in 4 weeks without ever learning to play the game. People cry and moan about how they can't make zeny but they never leave the TI maps. I personally LOVE when they have spotlights that cover 90+ leveling areas so I can level alts at a decent pace and often times make decent zeny while I'm at it. There is plenty of 99+ content if some of the spawns would be revisited and maybe revamp the bios monster to make them worth the time. I fondly remember hours of grinding bios 2 and making zeny to boot as a newish player.

Not saying gramps should be deleted but take away resets and give people maps that can be leveled on would do wonders.

[CharAznable]

People have been getting fed by cakes until now. remove Turn In and see how many people will drop out from the game. and i think reasoning behind them making Ti map seperated from pre existing map was to reduce lag, and their decrease in crew? 

 

in all seriousness, exploring the lore of Ragnarok Online can be done in different way. There is no point on moving Turn In map to other area what so ever because its just forcing people to go there and grind. How many people do you think cares about maps in terms of exploring when they're there to grind their level and finish the quest? not too many. whenever they put weird map for ti, they cry out loud to change the map. 

 

Instead of moving Ti map, GM can encourage more user driven events to make people explore the map. Make better spotlight instead of doing low level areas like Lou Yang. 

 

We're still missing Eden Board quest for 100~110, and 110~120. that could also encourage people to explore the map, find out good party to finish them, and actually have some fun, and get heads up on how to play in party before high ti and stuff. There are stuff we're still missing and those missing stuff can easily make people explore the map. 

 

P.S. the whole map thingy is based from Ragnarok Manga.

[kingjoe547]

Well frankly, there are no other alternatives GM giving us to explore other maps. The spotlight quest or event quest are always recycled and using the same map. Players spoon fed with gramps TI map. That's one of the reasons the game's getting boring. Players cant explore other amazing maps to lvl or something when they are trapped in the gramps ti map.

[killedbytofu]

one of the biggest flaws is that you have to do quests to access areas like scaraba and biolabs. that already illiminates a good number of players from being able to do them

 

 

The current system is better in every way in terms of flexibility. The only reason to have regular maps used is so people actually explore the "real" world, but VIP warp nullifies that.

 

agreed

 

People have been getting fed by cakes until now. remove Turn In and see how many people will drop out from the game. and i think reasoning behind them making Ti map seperated from pre existing map was to reduce lag, and their decrease in crew? 

 

in all seriousness, exploring the lore of Ragnarok Online can be done in different way. There is no point on moving Turn In map to other area what so ever because its just forcing people to go there and grind. How many people do you think cares about maps in terms of exploring when they're there to grind their level and finish the quest? not too many. whenever they put weird map for ti, they cry out loud to change the map. 

 

Instead of moving Ti map, GM can encourage more user driven events to make people explore the map. Make better spotlight instead of doing low level areas like Lou Yang. 

 

We're still missing Eden Board quest for 100~110, and 110~120. that could also encourage people to explore the map, find out good party to finish them, and actually have some fun, and get heads up on how to play in party before high ti and stuff. There are stuff we're still missing and those missing stuff can easily make people explore the map. 

 

P.S. the whole map thingy is based from Ragnarok Manga.

 

 

like you said, the problem is the lack of quests and lack of high level spotlights. simply put, mindless grinding is boring and the exp isnt even good enough to warrant doing it. even just grinding in TIs is 100x faster then grinding on maps because its constant mobs.

 

its 2013. the days of the mindless grindfest are long gone. anyone failing to get on board with the quest based rpg system now are left in the dust (thus the 20% drop in players over the past 8 months). what makes leveling 1-99 so much fun? the quests, quest rewards, and the full TIs. nobody wants to grind for endless hours except 10 year old vets that are still hungup on how ragnarok USED to be, which is why the upper TIs are either empty, or full of people that log onto that character to get the TI done then log off again. its cool that people feel nostalgia for the game in its pure grindfest state, but thats never going to bring any new players to the servers and if this version of the game doesnt adapt soon, its only going to lose more people. these 1 year gaps between updates just arnt acceptable. kRO is releshing in new content that makes it so that you dont have to rely on ti's. meanwhile iro will be stuck on the TI system for a long time until we slowly trickle in those updates. its a sad fact, but our version of the game is not a whole game. its like an unfinished expansion pack that the gravity corporation doesnt seem to care about. i mean seriously, what kind of company doesnt release updates to all of its servers simultaneously. im pretty sure that if given the option, most of us would just move to the kRO/jRO servers if the npcs spoke in english, because why put up with this nonsense if we dont have to?

[littlechiyo]

I'd never played renewal without Gramps turns in but I definitely agree that gramps turn ins fosters speed leveling without getting to know about the mechanics/classes/gears in this game. What I really want to see is board quests for higher levels because they have shorter cool down times and really encourage exploring new maps.

[Myzery]

Stop comparing iRO to other servers. We don't have the population that other servers have.

I don't mind grinding personally, but it just doesn't appeal to the majority of western gamers. Gramps is fine and the majority of people who play this game do so for WoE.

The "damage" is done and this is won't do anything but push people away from the game.

Edited by Myzery, 31 August 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[killedbytofu]

I'd never played renewal without Gramps turns in but I definitely agree that gramps turn ins fosters speed leveling without getting to know about the mechanics/classes/gears in this game. What I really want to see is board quests for higher levels because they have shorter cool down times and really encourage exploring new maps.

 

what i really want to see are game mechanics that work lol. how about making half of classes spells not completely useless spell tree fillers for starters? having every class reliant on 1-2 spells is just plain stupid. it allows for no play variance and no real need to learn your class because all youre pretty much doing is spamming 1 button the entire trip to 150. take RK for example: death bound, sonic wave, wind cutter, phantom thrust are all useless spells that we only put points into to get ignition break. imagine if all of those spells were viable spells with real power. youd see all kinds of different rk builds popping up instead of just DB or the very small minority of IB/HS

 

and dont even get me started on Sura. how about buffing sura aoe spells so they can actually level with them at a reasonable speed instead of having to slavetank for parties to 150.

 

if you want people to play the game, then you need to first make the game work right

[WarlockFier]

one of the biggest flaws is that you have to do quests to access areas like scaraba and biolabs. that already illiminates a good number of players from being able to do them

 

 

 

The thing is, quests like those are what makes you learn more about the game. The quests are the 'story part' of Ragnarok Online, and I recall you complaining that RO has no story when actually there's so much more to them it's amazing. Note that Biolabs if you don't even do the quest just to get into the map, you would miss out little things like that big map I just posted.

 

Simply to put, people who don't like to do quests are people who just want to speed through things and skip it. Then again I can understand forcing people to do quests after quests, and also repeat it on their alts might not be an option since, well, people are lazy... xD

 

I tried using the biolab pass on a different alt and it didn't work, so I think this is something maybe the GMs can fix in the future. Though if you have alts on separate accounts then yeah you still have to do the quest.

 

 

Stop comparing iRO to other servers. We don't have the population that other servers have.

 

We don't have the population other servers have because we do not have what the other servers have. Ragnarok Online. What we have is Turn Ins online. =o And if we want to be like other servers, there's so many things iRO has to do still. Constant battle against the bots is one of it, but to not derail the topic, we need to make Ragnarok what it is meant to be again.

 

 

And I am not saying deleting Gramps either, I just truly believe that the Turn In system can be better. Right now it felt like it's just lazy. And people CONSTANTLY complain about bad TIs and bad Maps... GMs end up having to change it so much. This is truly spoiling the community and look at what we have, people who will never be happy and satisfied with TI regardless.

Edited by WarlockFier, 31 August 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[killedbytofu]

The thing is, quests like those are what makes you learn more about the game. The quests are the 'story part' of Ragnarok Online, and I recall you complaining that RO has no story when actually there's so much more to them it's amazing. Note that Biolabs if you don't even do the quest just to get into the map, you would miss out little things like that big map I just posted.

 

Simply to put, people who don't like to do quests are people who just want to speed through things and skip it. Then again I can understand forcing people to do quests after quests, and also repeat it on their alts might not be an option since, well, people are lazy... xD

 

I tried using the biolab pass on a different alt and it didn't work, so I think this is something maybe the GMs can fix in the future. Though if you have alts on separate accounts then yeah you still have to do the quest.

 

 

oh dont get me wrong, i personally love the scaraba entrance quest, but its a big pain in the ass and VERY hard for some classes to solo (plus it takes a very very very long time to do). those spiders hit like a freight train and there are alot of them. i had to have a genetic help me when i was trying to solo it on my ranger cuz they were destroying me (i was only lvl 105 ranger at the time and didnt know that the quest was 130+ because its mislabeled)

 

the biolab pass is SUPPOSED to work on alts so that is weird. it should be brought to their attention

[Toxn]

one of the biggest flaws is that you have to do quests to access areas like scaraba and biolabs. that already illiminates a good number of players from being able to do them

 

If turn ins didnt exist yes. But thats not what was proposed and if you read the first post you would have noticed the suggestion made to skip doing the quests at a cost thats honestly not a bothersome in any way.

[Kadelia]

Again, I don't know how this is a "proposal". It's been done. Exactly as you say. There were warps to maps like medusa cave west comodo etc. The live map. It didn't help people explore the game or whatever.

 

What needs to happen is the Gramps TIs need to stop, and more dungeons like overlook need to be added, where you can get a lot of exp off one monster at a time, but they either have so much hp/offense you need to be super pro/geared to solo, or have a party. Such as pre-renewal biolabs.

Edited by Jaye, 31 August 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[CharAznable]

Really, Just high tier highlight will really help people leveling and exploring. spotlight Mora Village, New World, etc etc. I always grind at Abyss lake over Ti any time when theres spotlight touching abyss.

Edited by CharAznable, 31 August 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

The original TIs are better in terms of spreading people out and making the world look populated (if that's what the OP is trying to aim for).

http://irowiki.org/w...able_EXP_Quests

[Facekiller]

Keep TIs... just change the concept a bit... make an Event monster for the TIs... get no EXP per kill but get a flat exp % reward for killing like 1000 of the special TI monsters... No more worrying about the drops effecting the economy... no more worry about party exp sharing... no more worrying about what level the monsters are vs players current levels... Make em harder to kill but non agro or something... will it get kinda boring? probably... but if you want real variety go hunt on the maps...

[Toxn]

Edited the original post based on suggestions I've received from people I know.

Edited by Toxn, 31 August 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[kasshin]

1) Eden "board" quests for 100-100 and 110-120 are already on kRO and will be coming to iRO I believe. You just have to wait for them to implement it

 

2) You can still enter turn ins after you complete your count.

 

3) Spotlights were a good idea originally, but they never put it in areas with monsters that are 100-150, where leveling is actually slow and hard. We did have Abyss once, which was nice, but you never see them doing El Dicastes spotlight. Actually besides Abyss and Scarabs, there aren't very many good maps.

 

4) The turn in system allows the GMs full customization to use decent EXP monsters in "decent map" (arguable during certain weeks). Bifrost monsters give nice exp, but the natural maps are horrible, and you can't really grind much within Hazy. Bio dungeon maps are kind of big and not very good for grinding either.

 

5) Soloing isn't easy, not even for veterans. HP potions and SP potions get very expensive. From 1-99, characters can get away with having fewer supplies to solo grind, but that's impossible for 100-150. Pumpkin hats and RWHs are nice but even to be effective you'd have to be able to swap between the two, which not even many vets can do. And new players will quit the game before being able to afford those.

 

6) Okay, you can make a party with AB. But then maybe you'd have a problem with tanking the monsters. Okay you can get a tank now. Now maybe you'd have a problem with SP. Then you'd have to get a Sorcerer too? I doubt you'd have that many friends around that can help you with small PVM like this. The turn ins group players together in a "community" that allows for systemized party making.

[CharAznable]

What you are suggesting is already have been propose, but not just in "Turn in" format. I was just trying to say that making new form of "Turn In" isn't really required. currently, kRo have 100~110, and 111~120 board quest. Which is what essentially you're suggesting. they give you various places to level, and has 3 hours of cool down also. (matches with reset stone reset for gramps surprisingly) That being said, what you're proposing is actually on the way but just need Gravity HQ to confirm, and have iRo get patch. 

 

And I think making people explore the real RO via turn in map isn't really worth mentioning. This game have been out for 10+ years now, and haven't updated story wise since how long, i can't really remember. They recently added instance more gearing towards the Original "Ragnarok" comic. And those are the things that gradually catches old players who have been waiting to hear more about Ragnarok Lore, and actually think about the places that were shown at the comic itself. Reason why the Ragnarok is shallow in lore, and history is because author sorta quit making Comic after the great success in Ragnarok Online. He first set his goal to make his comic to have 40~50 volumes, and what we have ended up with was only 10 volume. and his last interview about continuing the story was 2007, which he is "trying to" draw them again, which he haven't till very recently, with geffen magic competition and so on. They're collaborated instance with the author himself. Gravity never really had author to make the map worthwhile so only thing they have been focusing on was slight background from comic which is morroc, and abyss gate stuff. Ro now have instance dungeon for 160+ and trying to create its own story instead of relying on comic book, so at least they're finally making some progress on kRo. But existing map is just laying around there have no purpose at all at this point. 

 

to make them worth a while, what Ro really need is better background story, which can be done in several ways. getting 100~110, 111~120 board is certainly one of the best choice to make people get out of Turn in map, and explore places such as thanatos tower, abyss lake, and so on. We can put story of our own, ask users to create story behind the certain map, and make quest npc, work with gms to figure out set up npc in certain places, ask creative section for npc art, this will stir a lot of creative ideas to make people explore the true Ragnarok, which always have embraced "Community" as their slogan. That way, not only people gets their reward from their effort, they also get to explore the map, get attached to peoples hard work, and awesome stories made by users, and ultimately, exp from completing quest. I think making actual quest that makes people really think about story, and change them every month or so would benefit them to actually explore the map. 

[AkaneSwifthand]

Another problem is than in most of the maps the spawn is too low for how big they are......

[Alicesaurus]

Another problem is than in most of the maps the spawn is too low for how big they are......

 

Thats why you cant just stick a turn in without doubling or tripping the spawn. If you customize the spawn then there should be no issues.

 

What you are suggesting is already have been propose, but not just in "Turn in" format. I was just trying to say that making new form of "Turn In" isn't really required. currently, kRo have 100~110, and 111~120 board quest. Which is what essentially you're suggesting. they give you various places to level, and has 3 hours of cool down also. (matches with reset stone reset for gramps surprisingly) That being said, what you're proposing is actually on the way but just need Gravity HQ to confirm, and have iRo get patch. 

 

And I think making people explore the real RO via turn in map isn't really worth mentioning. This game have been out for 10+ years now, and haven't updated story wise since how long, i can't really remember. They recently added instance more gearing towards the Original "Ragnarok" comic. And those are the things that gradually catches old players who have been waiting to hear more about Ragnarok Lore, and actually think about the places that were shown at the comic itself. Reason why the Ragnarok is shallow in lore, and history is because author sorta quit making Comic after the great success in Ragnarok Online. He first set his goal to make his comic to have 40~50 volumes, and what we have ended up with was only 10 volume. and his last interview about continuing the story was 2007, which he is "trying to" draw them again, which he haven't till very recently, with geffen magic competition and so on. They're collaborated instance with the author himself. Gravity never really had author to make the map worthwhile so only thing they have been focusing on was slight background from comic which is morroc, and abyss gate stuff. Ro now have instance dungeon for 160+ and trying to create its own story instead of relying on comic book, so at least they're finally making some progress on kRo. But existing map is just laying around there have no purpose at all at this point. 

Firstly lets compare it to the current gramps system. People dont leave eden period. How can getting people out into the real world not be worth mentioning when people dont even bother to leave eden group? How is your suggestion that it's not worth it better than what we already have? At least if we had multiple options we would get around ALOT more.

 

Secondly yes kro will have some more sign board quests. We are not talking about sign board quests we are talking about additional leveling quests. There is no reason we cant develop both.

 

And if you think the story and area's arent worth mentioning then why are you bothering to play this game? The whole idea is to get people out there. Give them variety, certainty and a place to go and people will follow. By having warps out there you will see people out on these maps that would normally never see a soul. How is that a bad thing?

 

All I can see is you nit picking to find the most negative drivel you can find without trying to be constructive at all. Try contributing instead of trying to shoot stuff down. Contribute!

Edited by Alicesaurus, 31 August 2013 - 04:55 PM.