20 replies to this topic

[Oda]

Hello there guys. 

 

One thing I'd like to get started is a list of good "starter build guides" for our updated training ground. As planned, you would speak to class NPCs at the end of the training area that would provide suggestions on basic builds for new players that don't know about the build guides on irowiki. 

 

Optimally there would be:

 

PVE build-mostly a soloable/affordable build for players just starting out

PVP build-for players who want to start getting involved with WoE.

 

You would choose what second class you want to do and it would give a guide on how to build a first class character to prepare for that. 

 

Skill build

Stat build (or what stats to focus on and when)

Leveling spots

Build's role or function in a party

Suggested gear

 

 

[Auarion]

Edit: Sorry, I think I misread your request.
 

Edited by Auarion, 05 September 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Melkor]

Honestly, Oda, although I'm not sure how "kosher" this would be, I think it would be a good idea to make links in the game that opens your web browser and takes you directly to important places like iROWiki and ROratorio's char simulator and Himeyasha's skill simulator.  These places are already well developed with exactly what you're talking about, and it doesn't make much sense to reinvent the wheel.  

 

Is there a way that you can make a NPC pop up a picture like the hair stylist NPC and make a hyperlinks inside?

[Oda]

As useful as those sites are, there needs to be some kind of in-game documentation for such basic things. 

[Melkor]

Fair enough, but have fun basically copypastaing it all.  :/

 

On that note, implementing the renewal-style alt+s window would be really helpful to new players, as they can put in the points and see where things go, but still reset before it's "too late."  

[HansLowell]

Im a fan of effective cost less way of leveling for a start but I don't know if it as its place there

[Jaffer]

I could probably reduce http://forums.warppo...d-knight-guide/ and http://forums.warppo...pionmonk-guide/ down to in-game texts.

 

Also, requesting a sticky on the first one.

 

I just need to know how much detail you want.

 

I could do it for most classes (ignoring Taekwon Ranker, Gunslinger, Ninja) with a little time depending on how much depth is being asked for.

Edited by Jaffer, 10 September 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[TwilightsCall]

There probably shouldn't be a newbie stalker guide, because transcendant classes aren't for newbies.

 

Aside from that, while I'm all for giving advice to newer players, I feel like outlining builds for them is going a little far.  I think a general stat breakdown (1 Str does this, 10 Str does this, etc) and class suggestions (As a knight, you should get mostly these stats, with some in these stats) is plenty.  One of the big pulls of RO is the massive customizability of your character's build, and I feel like providing builds for them off the start is a very bad way of getting that across.

 

As for skills, updating to the new skill window is all that I would consider to be really necessary.  If you felt like covering all your bases, you could add a tooltip to each skill saying what other skills require it (ie Endure has in it's tooltip 'Level 1 required to learn Knight/Crusader Peco Peco Ride')

[Melkor]

On that note, implementing the renewal-style alt+s window would be really helpful to new players, as they can put in the points and see where things go, but still reset before it's "too late."  

 

 

Bump

 

 

 

There probably shouldn't be a newbie stalker guide, because transcendant classes aren't for newbies.

 

I agree.  We should focus on nontrans, especially first classes.  Once the new players find other people and guilds and such, they will be able to ask questions about trans classes and the like.  

[duckmanneo]

Edit: Hid my posts.  I'm not going to post anymore on how to "improve iro".  I think the gms/devs can see how kro is run and with best judgment implement content in a timely manner.

[Oda]

Fair enough, but have fun basically copypastaing it all.  :/

 

On that note, implementing the renewal-style alt+s window would be really helpful to new players, as they can put in the points and see where things go, but still reset before it's "too late."  

We believe that the last actual update prior to Renewal actually did have a more advanced skill window (and enchanting orbs) so we have been trying to get an update on that from HQ for a while now. 

[Jaffer]

We believe that the last actual update prior to Renewal actually did have a more advanced skill window (and enchanting orbs) so we have been trying to get an update on that from HQ for a while now. 

 

It did.  13.2 added it.

[TwilightsCall]

The skill window update was actually part of Episode 13.1, with the stat enchant visibility being implemented with 13.2.

 

All in all, getting the 13.2 client seems to be the way to go!

[Oda]

I could probably reduce http://forums.warppo...d-knight-guide/ and http://forums.warppo...pionmonk-guide/ down to in-game texts.

 

Also, requesting a sticky on the first one.

 

I just need to know how much detail you want.

 

I could do it for most classes (ignoring Taekwon Ranker, Gunslinger, Ninja) with a little time depending on how much depth is being asked for.

Doesn't have to be particularly deep, because we can always point them towards the forum or fansites if they want to get more specific, but if someone doesn't want to go out of game, it would be nice to have generalized information about the class, and what it would be doing in PVE/PVP.

 

VVV That's a good idea! VVV

[Rate]

You should work on expanding the ingame menus instead of cramming all of that information into ros highly limited scroll/enter/click. Something like popping up images like the old novice grounds would be much better.

 

ie: "hurrdurr what gear is good for this build?"

picture of a geared character/item descs/stat descs/drop locations

[Themes]

I'm not sure how much detail you want to be giving here. I think if you can filter people into the second class jobs they want to be, then mention how useful each of the six stats are for that job. Maybe give some basic numbers and a list of a couple of the most useful skills for that first/second job.

 

For example a Knight may look like this:

 

Str - This is the main way to increase your damage, for every 10 Str you get a bonus to your damage, the bonus increases the more you have.

Agi - This determines how fast you attack and also your ability to dodge other attacks.

Vit - This increases your health and how much healing items heal for. It also reduces damage taken and the chance/duration of negative status effects (stun, silence etc)

Int - This increases your sp and sp regeneration rate, this is not very important for a Knight.

Dex - This increases your chance to hit monsters, every 5 Dex grants you a small damage bonus.

Luk - This increases your chance to perform a critical strike and slightly increases your chance to lucky dodge, this is not very important for a Knight.

 

80+ Str

~40 Dex

 

Then a defensive stat, either Vit or Agi. Vit Knights generally try to kill many things at once by making a large group and killing them with some area of effect attacks (like Bowling Bash or Brandish Spear). Agi Knights generally attack one target at a time but attack very quickly using a two handed sword with the skill Two Handed Quicken while dodging many of their attacks.

 

Swordsman Skills. These are some of the most useful skills but levels in the others are required to unlock Knight Skills:

• HP Recovery - When standing still for 10 seconds restores some health, also increases the healing from potions. Very good!
• Bash - A strong single target damage dealing ability. Very good!
• Endure - Allows you to continue running when monsters hit you.
• Sword Masteries - These increase the damage you do with one/two handed swords.

 

Knight Skills:

• Peco Peco Ride/Cavalier Mastery - Allows you to mount a Peco Peco and attack at normal speeds. A Peco Peco will allow you to move much faster than you would on foot.
• Twohand Quicken - This increases your attackspeed when wielding a two handed weapon.
• Bowling Bash - This hits the enemy you target and those around it twice, very good for killing groups of monsters.
• Brandish Spear - Deal damage to a group of enemies near by. Requires a spear.

 

 

 

God this is already way longer than I wanted and I left out tonnes of stuff, it's very hard to cut things back to the basics and any new player is going to get flooded with information. I think the best thing will be to give new players/accounts plenty of options to correct any errors they make with their character instead of punishing them for it. It's one of the things we like about the game, but its very very brutal on new players who have no idea that luk doesnt increase their drop chances or just how important it is to get enough dex to hit stuff.

 

You may have to offer some incentives to get people to write out some words for you though, the people who know the things are unlikely to be interested enough to write stuff out. Also an example of what you are expecting would make it a lot easier, providing people with a scope and format that they can copy and duplicate for most of the classes/roles.

 

[AllyBB]

Honestly this stuff really needs to be on the website more than anything because of the starting stats. You have stats before you've even logged in. If you do add in-game npc's i think they should be in both the beginning of the training grounds and in pront. They need to be in the beginning because you'll get more stats from the training npcs and the monster hunting maps and you need to know where to put them. I assume the purpose of these npcs would be to help new players avoid stuff like putting str on a wizard-to-be thinking they need it to kill the thief bugs and stuff as a novice with a dagger. It happens. If the npc that talks about the classes at end of training grounds was updated it could turn into a sort of refresher/overview class info npc so players can double check about the classes (since this is for brand new players they may have forgotten things since they've only read the info once before ~15 mins prior).

 

And I agree it should just give non-trans advice. It's not perfect since some classes trans version is like a totally different class, but i think it needs to be done to minimize the huge amount of info this game has. By the time they're ready to trans (first 99 for a new player takes a long time) they will have met people to ask for advice and looked up info on their own.

 

I think the info should be really general and basic. I don't really like the idea of giving out builds- even if it's not exact. Idk, it just ruins the experience of creating a build which is an interesting and imperative portion of this game.

 

Half-assed/simplified example of info could be like: (just kind of making things up for an example...probably not that accurate)

Archer -> Hunter

atk damage is effected by dex

uses ranged bows

benefits greatly from agi for aspd

may add lesser secondary falcon damage with luk

 

main attack skills: double strafe (effected by dex, atk), (if there was another attack skill blah mention it and say the stats...recommend dex for cast time if applicable etc.)

main support skill: trap stuff blah

main buff: improve conc

 

double strafe build

you do this blah blah blah with this build

dex/agi

 

falconer

you do this blah blah blah with this build

dex/agi/luk

 

woe/pvp (call this advanced build or something, hard to level not recommended as first character)

you do this blah blah blah with this build

vit/dex/int

 

 

 

[EtNox]

 

I think the info should be really general and basic. I don't really like the idea of giving out builds- even if it's not exact. Idk, it just ruins the experience of creating a build which is an interesting and imperative portion of this game.

 

^this.

 

There could be something like

 

Tank-Spear Knight:

Str: ++

Agi: 0 ~ -

Vit: ++

Int: 0 ~ -

Dex: +

Luk: 0

 

Agi-Twohanded Knight:

Str: + ~ ++

Agi: + ~ ++

Vit: -

Int: 0 ~ -

Dex: +

Luk: 0 ~ -

 

etc, without showing actual numbers. If we hand out plain numbers to every new player we could just change it to some auto-stat system like wow or diablo3.

They should get a general sense of what's more or less useful, not some "and now you stat this, and then you stat that!" style of "guide". Getting information from other players and looking stuff up on the internet is still a vital part in any MMO.

Edited by EtNox, 31 October 2013 - 04:05 AM.

[Kieri]

Or just have something like the Kafra legends item but one for each class explaining to you about it.

[Melkor]

I'm not sure how much detail you want to be giving here. I think if you can filter people into the second class jobs they want to be, then mention how useful each of the six stats are for that job. Maybe give some basic numbers and a list of a couple of the most useful skills for that first/second job.

 

For example a Knight may look like this:

 

Str - This is the main way to increase your damage, for every 10 Str you get a bonus to your damage, the bonus increases the more you have.

Agi - This determines how fast you attack and also your ability to dodge other attacks.

Vit - This increases your health and how much healing items heal for. It also reduces damage taken and the chance/duration of negative status effects (stun, silence etc)

Int - This increases your sp and sp regeneration rate, this is not very important for a Knight.

Dex - This increases your chance to hit monsters, every 5 Dex grants you a small damage bonus.

Luk - This increases your chance to perform a critical strike and slightly increases your chance to lucky dodge, this is not very important for a Knight.

 

80+ Str

~40 Dex

 

Then a defensive stat, either Vit or Agi. Vit Knights generally try to kill many things at once by making a large group and killing them with some area of effect attacks (like Bowling Bash or Brandish Spear). Agi Knights generally attack one target at a time but attack very quickly using a two handed sword with the skill Two Handed Quicken while dodging many of their attacks.

 

Swordsman Skills. These are some of the most useful skills but levels in the others are required to unlock Knight Skills:

• HP Recovery - When standing still for 10 seconds restores some health, also increases the healing from potions. Very good!
• Bash - A strong single target damage dealing ability. Very good!
• Endure - Allows you to continue running when monsters hit you.
• Sword Masteries - These increase the damage you do with one/two handed swords.

 

Knight Skills:

• Peco Peco Ride/Cavalier Mastery - Allows you to mount a Peco Peco and attack at normal speeds. A Peco Peco will allow you to move much faster than you would on foot.
• Twohand Quicken - This increases your attackspeed when wielding a two handed weapon.
• Bowling Bash - This hits the enemy you target and those around it twice, very good for killing groups of monsters.
• Brandish Spear - Deal damage to a group of enemies near by. Requires a spear.

 

 

 

God this is already way longer than I wanted and I left out tonnes of stuff, it's very hard to cut things back to the basics and any new player is going to get flooded with information. I think the best thing will be to give new players/accounts plenty of options to correct any errors they make with their character instead of punishing them for it. It's one of the things we like about the game, but its very very brutal on new players who have no idea that luk doesnt increase their drop chances or just how important it is to get enough dex to hit stuff.

 

You may have to offer some incentives to get people to write out some words for you though, the people who know the things are unlikely to be interested enough to write stuff out. Also an example of what you are expecting would make it a lot easier, providing people with a scope and format that they can copy and duplicate for most of the classes/roles.

 

I like where all this is going, but another really important thing to keep in mind is that players want to play the game, not read endless boxes of text explaining the game.  I don't know about anyone else, but I personally have never actually read all the NPCs in the training grounds as it is.  

 

We do not want to bore new players out of wanting to play because they are forced to go through tutorials.

[Themes]

I know I wanted it to be like half that and similar to what the guy above posted, but there's just....so much that people should be kind of informed about. Simple stat allocations and skill ideas is the way to go I think.