29 replies to this topic

[Humbelum]

Hey guys,

 

first, I dont want to make a renewal vs classic topic. It's just a hypothetical question about classes vs classes in a not existing game.

 

As you know in renewal 3rd classes just replaced rebirth classes in WoE.

 

I dont know if you remember but one of the first ideas of gravity korea was to make 3rd class equal strong(or weaker) than rebirth classes. Without a option to change from rebirth to 3rd cls or go over lvl99.

 

Jobchange example

2nd Cls lvl99 -> lvl1 High Novice     OR

2nd Cls lvl99 -> lvl70/1 3rd Cls

 

Bonuses for rebirth are: 100 Statpoints instead of 48, +25% HP/SP

3rd Cls would still have HP/SP like 2nd Cls and more exp/job exp are needed.

 

 

What do you think:  Which class would be better for WoE if gravity didn't change their mind about 3rd cls and they would be equal strong or weaker than rebirth? Of course with classic system and a balanced damage of 3rd vs rebirth skills (lol...)

 

It would mean that Suras have no Zen and less SP than Champions, GX no EDP, Warlock no Amp etc

 

Scholar vs Sorcerer: I think scholars would be still better for support/ME with soul exhale, memorize, fiberlock, mindbreak etc and Sorcerer would take the offensive part.

 

I guess Sniper would be totaly replaced by Ranger...FalconEyes, FalconAssault, Windwalker

Edited by Humbelum, 17 September 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[meowington]

What the hell is the point of 3rd class if they would be weaker than rebirths? You would have to nerf every single skill SIGNIFICANTLY of the 3rd class.

 

Rather than that, if you want to play 3rd class... just go play renewal. What is the point of playing classic if you want 3rd classes?

 

[Xellie]

haha he said boni

[Humbelum]

Sorry if you dont understand, but it was the first idea of gravity to add more classes instead of replacing the old ones.  It was planned to increase the variety of classes you can play. The idea was to play 3rd cls beside rebirth.

 

In renewal rebirth is just like 1st Job before jobchange to 3rd.

 

@Xellie

thx, didnt notice.

[meowington]

No, I understand perfectly well. I'm saying it would be near impossible to dumb down 3rd classes to make them "fair" for rebirths to fight against in WoE/PvP. Not only that, it is stupid to do so. That is a lot of extra effort just to make worthless classes. (Like you said, they should be weaker - what?)

 

If you want more classes to play, go play renewal. You're asking for renewal content in classic, so why don't you just play renewal?

 

The whole idea of 3rd class was to expand the game entirely which evolved into renewal.

 

 

[Humbelum]

Your post clearly says that you didnt understand. I never said in my post I ask for 3rd cls and I never said in this post I want to play 3rd cls. I dont know which topic you're reading but I can be sure it's not mine. It's a "hypothetical question". Try to google if you dont understand.

 

Gravity changed their mind about 3rd classes because some people complained that they want to change their Rebirths to 3rd cls as well.

 

3rd Cls would still expand the game but expand the WoE gameplay even more.

 

Now you only have about 14~ classes in WoE. Otherwise it would be about 27(Gunslinger, Ninja, SL included). I think that would be very interesting in WoE. But as you said it would take a lot to balance this. 27 classes are more difficult than just 14.

 

 

Edited by Humbelum, 17 September 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[meowington]

Your post clearly says that you didnt understand. I never said in my post I ask for 3rd cls and I never said in this post I want to play 3rd cls. I dont know which topic you're reading but I can be sure it's not mine. It's a "hypothetical question". Try to google if you dont understand.

 

Gravity changed their mind about 3rd classes because some people complained that they want to change their Rebirths to 3rd cls as well.

 

3rd Cls would still expand the game but expand the WoE gameplay even more.

 

Now you only have about 14~ classes in WoE. Otherwise it would be about 27(Gunslinger, Ninja, SL included). I think that would be very interesting in WoE. But as you said it would take a lot to balance this. 27 classes are more difficult than just 14.

 

Clearly I do understand and clearly you don't understand 3rd classes don't have a place in classic hence why gravity did what they did and expanded into renewal.

 

If you can explain how instacast warlocks and overpowered arrowstorm fits into classic content, by all means, start beginning to explain how it would fit in with normal gameplay. How would painkiller fit into all that from Homunculus S?

 

The more and more you begin to think about 3rd classes, the more and more you would have to completely change what the class even is and you might as well make new classes altogether.

[rodezja]

Clearly I do understand and clearly you don't understand 3rd classes don't have a place in classic hence why gravity did what they did and expanded into renewal.

 

If you can explain how instacast warlocks and overpowered arrowstorm fits into classic content, by all means, start beginning to explain how it would fit in with normal gameplay. How would painkiller fit into all that from Homunculus S?

 

The more and more you begin to think about 3rd classes, the more and more you would have to completely change what the class even is and you might as well make new classes altogether.

 

Dude... you really don't understand. He's talking about completely different thing than just adding 3rds as they are to the existing classic server.

He's asking HOW IT WOULD BE if it was the way it was supposed to be.

He's NOT asking to add any kind of 3rd class to classic server. Period.

[Humbelum]

@ceinchase

yep, but thats another problem...

 

 

@meowington

You're right, the current system can't be added to classic. And I dont want them on classic.

I was talking about what if gravity not decided to go higher and higher in level, exp, hp, skills and damage. Not to kill rebirth, but give them a competition with 3rd cls.

 

About Warlocks, they wouldnt have AMP and if the skills would have similiar or less damage to MS, SG and LoV it would fit. HW have higher Dmg with AMP but with casttime. Warlock can target greater places and instant but less damage compared to a HW. Btw a HW with Battle Chant has AMP and Instant.

 

Some 3rd classes would have a disadvantage without the rebirth skills. Sura for example, without Zen he can't spam GoH or other skills very fast. Except he has some Throwing Spere champs for support lol!

 

 

[WaterBaron]

This is what Gravity should have done in the first place I believe. Trans scales vertically in power, thus making all the other non-trans content and classes worthless. Big mistake. Back then, It would have been better to introduce horizontally scaling 3rd classes instead of trans, making them simply equal alternatives to existing classes. Of course, now I don't think it matters how many classes you have with a server pop of 300-400.

[meowington]

This is what Gravity should have done in the first place I believe. Trans scales vertically in power, thus making all the other non-trans content and classes worthless. Big mistake. Back then, It would have been better to introduce horizontally scaling 3rd classes instead of trans, making them simply equal alternatives to existing classes. Of course, now I don't think it matters how many classes you have with a server pop of 300-400.

 

So they should punish people for doing way more work? Getting to trans just means you willingly to put in more than double the effort to maximize your character.

Edited by meowington, 17 September 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[teffalockheart]

I understand all the root of discussion. But, i dont think this idea will ever be implemented due to:

 

1) main RO developer which is kRO has no intention/interest for classic as their current RO's server all are based on Renewal (no classic in korea)

2) kRO is now only develop updates based on renewal interest.

3) rebalancing 3rd class to classic mechanic is a joke

4) i dont think iRO GMs team have the capability to do anything 'big' like this such as modifying a skill formula? All they do is ask kRO.

 

justmy2cent

[meowington]

What he is asking is basically to develop entirely new class sets for classic which is just absurd considering classic is fine the way it is. Like said if you want more classes and new things to do, that is exactly what renewal was made for.

[HopeSama]

From the sound of it he is not asking for anything to be added to classic but rather... asking how would this change the playing field and what classes would not get affected by the change much. (Who would be top dog despite being either transcendent lvl 99 or 3-1/3-2 lvl 99)

That is what it sounded like he was asking to me :x

[Humbelum]

So they should punish people for doing way more work? Getting to trans just means you willingly to put in more than double the effort to maximize your character.

 

The first idea of gravity was something like this:

 

2nd Cls lvl99 -> lvl1 High Novice Rebirth    OR

2nd Cls lvl99 -> lvl70/1 3rd Cls Jobchange

 

After jobchange to 3rd cls you have to gain more exp to reach lvl99 again. Maybe just 70% or 80% of Rebirths exp. It's less work than rebirth. You also have less HP than rebirth and less stat points(okay, 100 compared to 68 isn't that much....)

 

What he is asking is basically to develop entirely new class sets for classic which is just absurd considering classic is fine the way it is. Like said if you want more classes and new things to do, that is exactly what renewal was made for.

 

No! Please read rodezja's Post again. I'm just talking about "What if" and not more...  It seems like you just want to troll.

 

Btw renewal has new classes and not more classes. Classic has acutal more classes because you can still use gunslinger, SL and ninja in WoE and TKM also in PvP.

 

 

@WaterBaron

yeah with more classes you would need more players as well. It was the last jRO promo video which reminds me about the old idea of gravity. RO would have a hugh amount of classes to play.

[Humbelum]

From the sound of it he is not asking for anything to be added to classic but rather... asking how would this change the playing field and what classes would not get affected by the change much. (Who would be top dog despite being either transcendent lvl 99 or 3-1/3-2 lvl 99)

That is what it sounded like he was asking to me :x

 

Thanks

[teffalockheart]

From the sound of it he is not asking for anything to be added to classic but rather... asking how would this change the playing field and what classes would not get affected by the change much. (Who would be top dog despite being either transcendent lvl 99 or 3-1/3-2 lvl 99)

That is what it sounded like he was asking to me :x

 

I know, that is why he address this topic as "Hypothetical Question".

 

The fate of something imaginary is either 'change to reality' or 'forgotten'.

 

No matter how many players reject or agree to the hypothetical question (maybe that time OP will ask this implemented), i think my post is the future conclusion.

 

Sorry, on meds.............................................

 

p/s: i am not disagree with you, justmy2cent

Edited by teffalockheart, 17 September 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[meowington]

Yes, you ARE saying that. If you have to completely nerf the 3rd classes into something ENTIRELY different, hence why I said "you'd have to essentially develop new classes"

 

We are OBVIOUSLY talking about "What ifs" Does that really need to be repeated over and over? I KNOW you aren't saying to add them in, only what if.

 

I don't know how many times y'all are going to repeat the same thing over and over.

 

A sura without zen will be 100% inferior to a champion, zen -> gfist dead. done deal

 

ranger with AS /warg > sniper in every way

 

DB/HSiB RK with option to bowling bash > LK with frenzy

 

Arch bishop will be 100% better supporter than HP with only 1 HP being needed to assumptio

 

etc..etc.. the list goes on and on about how much better 3rds are even without trans skills

[Humbelum]

A sura without zen will be 100% inferior to a champion, zen -> gfist dead. done deal

 

ranger with AS /warg > sniper in every way

 

DB/HSiB RK with option to bowling bash > LK with frenzy

 

Arch bishop will be 100% better supporter than HP with only 1 HP being needed to assumptio

 

etc..etc.. the list goes on and on about how much better 3rds are even without trans skills

 

Thats what I want to talk about.

 

Champion would be still a champion. How many spheres can a Sura have? more than 3 years I played renewal last time.

 

LK would be still a good emp breaker class in WoE.

 

Sniper will totaly loose in a class fight. FA is just too low damage. Nothing usefull for WoE

 

I think HP would be totaly replaced too. You just need one at your savepoint for assu

 

Hmm what about GX? EDP Sinx could still be the better dmg dealer

 

Offensive Gypsi with Tarot? Still an effective skill if you dont scream, slow song, etc.

Defensive Gypsi/Clown with the rebirth HP Bonus would be the better CP song.

Minstrel/Wanderer for support

 

e:typo

 

Edited by Humbelum, 17 September 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[ShinobiEX3]

Yes, you ARE saying that. If you have to completely nerf the 3rd classes into something ENTIRELY different, hence why I said "you'd have to essentially develop new classes"

 

We are OBVIOUSLY talking about "What ifs" Does that really need to be repeated over and over? I KNOW you aren't saying to add them in, only what if.

 

I don't know how many times y'all are going to repeat the same thing over and over.

 

A sura without zen will be 100% inferior to a champion, zen -> gfist dead. done deal

 

ranger with AS /warg > sniper in every way

 

DB/HSiB RK with option to bowling bash > LK with frenzy

 

Arch bishop will be 100% better supporter than HP with only 1 HP being needed to assumptio

 

etc..etc.. the list goes on and on about how much better 3rds are even without trans skills

uhm lol troll post but ill bite

 

Obviously if they were to cut out the lvl 100 to 150 and kept it at 99 you it would be like this

 

novice>Priest>Monk> Rebirth

Rebirth Novice> Champion or

Rebirth Novice>Sura

 

Obviously again if they did that the mechanics would be changed to even out those two classes and it would just drop to preference on what u want to play. Given there would be difference as in Aoe Sura

Or Gfist Sura. Done and Done I wont explain the others u can figure it out your self right . I would hope so and also please stop trolling your hate its getting old ^.^

 

[littlechiyo]

Haha that's funny wanderer/maestro have so little to add to this conversation xD I never knew that 3rd classes were going to be extensions for rebirth, that is interesting to think about. 

 

Yes, you ARE saying that. If you have to completely nerf the 3rd classes into something ENTIRELY different, hence why I said "you'd have to essentially develop new classes"

 

We are OBVIOUSLY talking about "What ifs" Does that really need to be repeated over and over? I KNOW you aren't saying to add them in, only what if.

 

I don't know how many times y'all are going to repeat the same thing over and over.

 

A sura without zen will be 100% inferior to a champion, zen -> gfist dead. done deal

 

ranger with AS /warg > sniper in every way

 

DB/HSiB RK with option to bowling bash > LK with frenzy

 

Arch bishop will be 100% better supporter than HP with only 1 HP being needed to assumptio

 

etc..etc.. the list goes on and on about how much better 3rds are even without trans skills

 

Lol if you understood you could've just replied with this post. Not sure why you're so worked up about his hypotheticals and telling the OP to go play renewal for bringing up this topic. OP makes a point saying that not all 3rd classes are better than trans by pointing to the scholar/sorcerer class. Also OP talks about the way 3rds would've been developed to accommodate an extension to rebirths. It's really not that outrageous and not the same as developing new classes.

[HansLowell]

Almost every skills of 3rd class combined with classic mechanic would be game breaking. There is only that to say.

Check str caps and int caps and check the Skills damage of any 3rd class.

 

Then if thats not enough put mind breaker X2 matk and other buffs.

 

Renewal status effects would be sad in woe classic also

 

and some skills couldnt be balanced if your talking about balancing them also. They have already trouble balancing them in renewal itself so what about classic rofl

Edited by HansLowell, 17 September 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[meowington]

uhm lol troll post but ill bite

 

Obviously if they were to cut out the lvl 100 to 150 and kept it at 99 you it would be like this

 

novice>Priest>Monk> Rebirth

Rebirth Novice> Champion or

Rebirth Novice>Sura

 

Obviously again if they did that the mechanics would be changed to even out those two classes and it would just drop to preference on what u want to play. Given there would be difference as in Aoe Sura

Or Gfist Sura. Done and Done I wont explain the others u can figure it out your self right . I would hope so and also please stop trolling your hate its getting old ^.^

 

 

I'm not a troll. Can you please explain what about my post makes me a "troll"? That you don't like my opinion? I'm not sure.

 

I don't see the point in even thinking about stuff like this, it won't happen, its like begging to win the 500 million dollar lottery... there is a chance, but it is so low you don't even think about it.

[stygionyx]

I'm not a troll. Can you please explain what about my post makes me a "troll"? That you don't like my opinion? I'm not sure.

 

I don't see the point in even thinking about stuff like this, it won't happen, its like begging to win the 500 million dollar lottery... there is a chance, but it is so low you don't even think about it.

 

OP asks Hypothetical Question, and NOT a Suggestion. I believe your post is not a troll, it's just completely unrelated to this topic, which still makes it a troll post either way.
 

Edited by stygionyx, 17 September 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[littlechiyo]

If you don't like the topic then don't read and don't respond lol