High Tier Dungeon Balancing Act - Foundry Archive - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

High Tier Dungeon Balancing Act


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
25 replies to this topic

#1 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 11063 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:56 AM

Currently the classic server has a problem where certain locations so outclass others in EXP gain that there is little to no reason to visit these other dungeons for your leveling experience. This is of course very saddening because Rune Midgard contains a lot of beautiful scenic locations. For this project we will be touching on several dungeons and how we should be able to bring this tier in line with each other in terms of risk versus reward. 

 

When you respond to this thread please specify which dungeon you are talking about.

 

Today (10/3) I had a long talk in game with many of the players that were online, I think it was very productive. Adding the outcome below.

 

Bios 3 - Suggestions Needed

Spoiler

Abyss Lake 3 - Currently on Trial Run

Spoiler

Thors 1 - Currently on Trial Run

Spoiler

Nameless Island - Suggestions Needed

Spoiler

Juperos - Suggestions Needed

Spoiler

  • 0

#2 Hrishi

Hrishi

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2365 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:59 AM

Bio3 - Kathy spawn and all other area spawns should be in. Map is perfect with those existing.

 

AL3 - Remove spawn timers.

 

Thors - Revert stupid custom changes and let it be. Map is perfect.

 

Nameless - Access quest should be account wide. Map is perfect as it is.

 

Juperos - Remove Dimiks in floor 1, consider removing spawn timers on Venatus.


Edited by Hrishi, 02 October 2013 - 10:00 AM.

  • 3

#3 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:02 AM

Building on Hrishi's post

 

Bio3 - Kathy spawn and all other area spawns - maybe add a long term kill count to promote longer gameplay on the map.

 

AL3 - Remove spawn timers, give dargons better job exp.

 

Thors - Revert stupid custom changes and let it be. <- dat

 

Nameless - Access quest should be account wide. Map is perfect as it is. - Have an acc bound permit allow access to nameless island. Boat ticket or whatever. Well not a boat ticket, that's not good with the story. But something like that. So you can do the quest on a HP and then put the pass on your HW on the same acc and access the map.

 

Juperos - Remove Dimiks in floor 1, consider removing spawn timers on Venatus, make the core access quest a one time only thing.


  • 0

#4 Gn1ydnu

Gn1ydnu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2077 posts
  • LocationBoston
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:02 AM

Agree 110% with the post above mine
  • 0

#5 Ian14

Ian14

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 66 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:03 AM

Leave as it is. We don't need customized server.


  • 0

#6 azertygf

azertygf

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 688 posts
  • LocationFrance
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:RE:START

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:05 AM

Bios 3 :

Instant Kathrynn (not the area spawn from your bad team the normal Kathrinn Keyron coded by kRO)

 

Abyss Lake 3 :

We don't care, remove the timer is better. But no one want to exp here with the normal map.

 

Thor 1 :

5. Leave Thor Alone.

 

Nameless Island : 

Don't touch the dungeon but add something to make party in easier. Like item for enter, Or made a map event with some high level monster in only acessible by VIP or with one KP items.

 

Juperos :

Remove Dimik from level 1 and made it fun like Turn In Quest or something for make people have fun for one or two week in this dungeon.


  • 0

#7 TwilightsCall

TwilightsCall

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 514 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Odin

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:09 AM

I'm not sure I agree with your opinion of 'high tier dungeon,' but I'll let that slide for now.

 

 

Bio3: Area spawns are a good idea.  If instant Hwiz is such an issue, put it on a timer, but without the rest of the area spawns, the map is terrible.

 

AL3:  A couple options I suppose.  Reducing timers is one of them, buffing the Job EXP is another.  All in all, AL3 isn't supposed to be that high level of a dungeon, iirc it used to be a 60s and 70s dungeon.  Trying to make it into something its not is not only going to be difficult, it's going to end badly.

 

Thors: Leave the maps the way they were.  Implement the Magma2 quest to 'shortcut' into Thors 2.

 

Nameless Island:  Magma2 quest to get into Thors 2 would help immensely.  The maps are great already, but its so difficult to get into them most people probably won't bother.

 

Juperos:  Remove Dimiks from level 1, they are clearly just harassment monsters.  Maybe make some Area spawns for the venatus (wide area spawns, like one for each of the four islands) so that multiple parties can set up and function properly if they need to.  If you need some variety on the level, maybe add a small number of Apocalipses.

 

 

I'd recommend also adding Thanatos Tower to the list of dungeons.  It's a really fun dungeon, one of the few dungeons that has story to it, but its so much pain and effort to get far enough in for it to be worth it that it's not an effective levelling spot.  Maybe add a quest that makes the big blue light on level one teleport you up to Level 7?  Maybe remove the trans only requirements on 7+?  Maybe improve the rewards for the treasure turn in on Floor 1?


  • 1

#8 MarDyu

MarDyu

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:13 AM

is campitor showing us how to destroy a server.,?  leave the dungeons the way it was.,


  • 0

#9 jokinvipo

jokinvipo

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 44 posts

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:16 AM

Bio3 - Kathryne Keyron/Cecil Damon stair spawn and all other area spawns should be in. Map is perfect with those existing.

 

Abyss Lake 3 - Remove spawn timers.

 

Thor's - Revert all changes and put normal settings.

 

Nameless Island - Access quest should be account wide. Map is perfect as it is.

Equipment Suggestion: http://db.irowiki.or...item-info/5420/ for others class's can level easy like monk with Mental Strength and Meteor Storm.

 

Juperos - Remove Dimiks in floor 1 and spawn timers on Venatus.


Edited by jokinvipo, 02 October 2013 - 10:18 AM.

  • 0

#10 Susan

Susan

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1024 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:20 AM

  • kiel 1 - either don't warp back to town when dcing / relog, or let us memo the outside map.
  • New Dungeon Teleport Scroll (attention, this means you gain dollars!)

Spoiler

 


  • 1

#11 Misaka00470

Misaka00470

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 104 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:46 AM

Keep all maps as they were. We don't need customized server.

Bio 3: Recover area spawn on the stairs. Hwzs and Snipers.

Thors: Revert stupid custom changes and let it be.

Thanatos tower: Enable relog on 7th-12th floor and teleport on 7th-13th floor

Edited by Misaka00470, 02 October 2013 - 11:03 AM.

  • 2

#12 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:51 AM

The changes to juperos I suggested aren't "custom", they're "pre-nerf"

 

BIG DIFFERENCE!


  • 0

#13 Tolrin

Tolrin

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 351 posts

Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:27 AM


4. Change the connections within the dungeon so that a character death was more meaningful and desired to be avoided by the players.

It was decided to go with option 4. We did not want to destroy any value the dungeon had, and wanted to encourage continued clever game play, while still providing a speed bump in the treadmill of death that was the TKM warp in and die spawn.

 

Let me break this down for you, since you don't seem to understand how leveling in this game works, and you seem to want to alienate your players.

 

First of all, the server currently has a vast disparity between the highest level players (who are all 99 trans) and the slightly behind players (who are all considerably lower level).  This disparity was originally caused by the temporary implementation of the dragon kill count quests from your renewal launch events, which more or less instantly 99ed anyone who was playing in those weeks, and left everyone else very far behind.  Other players are still catching up, and new players also need opportunities to play catch up as well.

 

In the current state of the server (as of last week), thors1 is literally the only map where it is viable to level characters in a reasonable enough amount of time to be able to catch up and compete with established players.  Changing the map from its normal state severely damages the options of said players, and leaves established players with no options for making new characters or helping weaker players level up.

 

On top of that, your established goal for this change is to "not destroy any value the dungeon had," but you said yourself that the primary usage of the map is people (not just limited to TKMs, though this is what you pointed out, lord knights and sinx also town warp pretty regularly) warping in from town, fighting in level 1 until their resources are exhausted, and then going back to town.  Since this method is the primary usage of the map, making it more or less impossible does, by definition, destroy its value.  If you consider this leveling method toxic, you should add options that are more fun or more rewarding, not take away the options we currently have, which brings me to my final point.

 

Clearly, you guys do not actually play the game, thats fine, I understand it.  What your observations of this map may not have made clear is that for many people, or at least for me and my group of friends, this map is the only remaining source of leveling fun on this server.  You guys have failed to implement the other fun maps, and have crippled biolabs for so long that nobody goes there, so from the classic experience we wanted all that is left is TKMing in Thors.  If you remove that, I no longer have any reason to play, because you will have removed the last fun thing that there is.

 

Please consider things carefully.


Edited by Tolrin, 02 October 2013 - 11:33 AM.

  • 4

#14 kisai

kisai

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 201 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:46 AM

 

  • kiel 1 - either don't warp back to town when dcing / relog, or let us memo the outside map.
  • New Dungeon Teleport Scroll (attention, this means you gain dollars!)

Spoiler

 

 

There is a version of this already in the Kafra Shop (Dungeon Teleport 2 boxes). 

I noticed it a couple of days ago actually. 

 

 


  • 0

#15 Susan

Susan

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1024 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้

Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:13 PM

lol wow. i posted that over a year ago in suggestion forums and never got a reply.

guess they read it


  • 1

#16 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 11063 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:38 PM

Let me break this down for you, since you don't seem to understand how leveling in this game works, and you seem to want to alienate your players.

 

First of all, the server currently has a vast disparity between the highest level players (who are all 99 trans) and the slightly behind players (who are all considerably lower level).  This disparity was originally caused by the temporary implementation of the dragon kill count quests from your renewal launch events, which more or less instantly 99ed anyone who was playing in those weeks, and left everyone else very far behind.  Other players are still catching up, and new players also need opportunities to play catch up as well.

 

In the current state of the server (as of last week), thors1 is literally the only map where it is viable to level characters in a reasonable enough amount of time to be able to catch up and compete with established players.  Changing the map from its normal state severely damages the options of said players, and leaves established players with no options for making new characters or helping weaker players level up.

 

On top of that, your established goal for this change is to "not destroy any value the dungeon had," but you said yourself that the primary usage of the map is people (not just limited to TKMs, though this is what you pointed out, lord knights and sinx also town warp pretty regularly) warping in from town, fighting in level 1 until their resources are exhausted, and then going back to town.  Since this method is the primary usage of the map, making it more or less impossible does, by definition, destroy its value.  If you consider this leveling method toxic, you should add options that are more fun or more rewarding, not take away the options we currently have, which brings me to my final point.

 

Clearly, you guys do not actually play the game, thats fine, I understand it.  What your observations of this map may not have made clear is that for many people, or at least for me and my group of friends, this map is the only remaining source of leveling fun on this server.  You guys have failed to implement the other fun maps, and have crippled biolabs for so long that nobody goes there, so from the classic experience we wanted all that is left is TKMing in Thors.  If you remove that, I no longer have any reason to play, because you will have removed the last fun thing that there is.

 

Please consider things carefully.

So the big reason I saw is the lost time due to buffs being lost while travelling in the maps. Were looking at ways of lessening or removing the pain of losing buff time and will have an idea about that posted soon. Is there any other reason why this hurts small groups/solo players?


  • 0

#17 Hrishi

Hrishi

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2365 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

Access to the inn? Making it a level 2 dungeon makes it impossible to use the inn effectively.


  • 0

#18 HansLowell

HansLowell

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 485 posts
  • LocationQuebec
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

.


Edited by HansLowell, 02 October 2013 - 05:24 PM.

  • 0

#19 Tolrin

Tolrin

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 351 posts

Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:49 PM

The main reason is that it isn't FUN to have to spend 30 seconds fly winging through a map constantly to get where you want to level.  If you can't be self sufficient on a map, you have to rely on using an inn to restore sp, because sp consumables are too expensive to be practical, and multi clienting a scholar is both annoying and unavailable to some players.  This is why most players level either on field maps, or maps nearby a portal where you can memo warps.  In the case of thors volcano, a decent TKM or knight or smith probably lasts 2-3 minutes on the map before running out of SP. Adding the extra 30 seconds of not doing anything at all to every trip back to the map you want to level on would mean that something like 20% of the time you spend 'playing' you don't actually get to play. 

 

It wouldn't matter much to people who are going around in medium sized parties, since a party can be self sufficient without needing to use the inn, but lets be honest, most people who are leveling are not in medium sized parties, they are usually alone or maybe with a partner.  If there was some kind of compelling reason to change things, maybe I could understand, but there seems to be nothing but negatives to changing something many people like for the worse.


  • 0

#20 Zeal

Zeal

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 64 posts

Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:01 PM

Tolrin has it down.  Don't change whats not broken.  I honestly don't mind the thors change. However, with the extreme few people left on this server already you probably shouldn't touch it if this many people are complaining..  As for what Tolrin said about new players being very far behind anyone who was around during the dragon turn in makes perfect sense.. Also seems like after dragons went away was about the time the server started looking quite sick.  I've been handing out gear to new players literally everyday because prices are so high on the market none of them can afford anything.  The ones i talk to usually say they don't like it because no one is leveling anywhere and they cant find any parties. (The giant dragon gap).  Even though this was a long time ago now, it still has the growth of the server in a vice grip.

~Have to go for now.  I'll have some ideas later.

 

EDIT* nvm this is high tier balancing, my bad.


Edited by Zeal, 03 October 2013 - 12:11 AM.

  • 0

#21 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:39 AM

regarding thors : lets not forget having to buy potions every 5 mins or so


  • 0

#22 Flack

Flack

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:59 AM

Just implement up to 13.2 and leave the core of the game alone.

If you as a GM team want to add new custom stuff that's fine but leave the core of the game the way it was intended. This is all anyone wanted when this server was even started and right now it's the only thing that is going for keep this now sad server running.
  • 0

#23 azertygf

azertygf

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 688 posts
  • LocationFrance
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:RE:START

Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:37 AM

Abyss Lake 3

 

Remove the Detardeurus/Detale quest for summon he in AL3.

Put Detardeurus as a normal MVP, he spawn every 180/190min.


  • 1

#24 Rate

Rate

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1114 posts
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:bad news

Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:44 AM

Detale quest definitely needs to be removed or lessened with the spawn reductions. At least remove the despawn timer of quest hydro's. The changes to abyss sound pretty awesome, but I'm not going to waste supplies checking it out until next 2x..


  • 0

#25 EtNox

EtNox

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 291 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:euRo -> fRo -> Classic

Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:46 AM

Just leave the dungeons as they were, or try to do minor changes, not major "make overs".

Previous "attempts" at customizing the crap out of dungeons already showed that it always ends in a horrible mess.

 

Bio3: Leave as it is, no need to get it changed.

AL3: Spawntimers to maybe 3~4 minutes, exp back to original value. It's not supposed to be some high level or "get free 500m/h exp here" place. Partyplace for like 65~80ish people, not a leech place for solo LKs.

Thors: Leave as it is, works fine.

Nameless: Camera changes are okay, but not a major issue.

 

 

I don't get why people demand major changes like every week to about every place possible just to get free exp shoved up their ***. There are more then enough 2x events.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users