16 replies to this topic

[tally]

Now that I'm playing a little bit (I mean being AFK on Domi..), thought I'd take some time (at work) to have a look at these new items in the game (last time I played was just as NM jewels were released).

 

Doing some number crunching on L65, 75 and 85 FoC, L72 Salvation, L79 Sacred set, and L85 Twilight(?), I've got some conclusions :

 

Salvation is the best set for healing output if you can afford carus, L65 FoC if not. And I shall tell you for why....

 

Things to consider :

L72 differs from 79 and 85 in that it has SCAD on reinforce, not skill crit.
L79 is like a cut-down L85 set; same things on reinforce but less numbers, so counts that out.

FoC sets increase both crit chance and SCAD on reinforce, but not as much as carus sets.

L75 and 85 FoC sets are... -_-e. Look at the stats per reinforce compared to 65 set... waste of money (at +15 you're talking 60 MND and 70 SCAD difference). So just 65 left.

 

So it's a battle of extra MND and crit chance on 85 vs. SCAD on 72 vs. a little of everything on FoC....

 

Since we're talking about a mix of %-based values and also additional values (such as SCAD), it's impossible to say for every single build out there, so I had to base this on my 'average' radiant's weapon and jewels, which is on around 65% crit rate without any armour on.

 

The massive MND and crit rate of 85 armour will easily get you beyond 100% crit rate. In this model I replaced the unnecessary crit enchants in the jewels with decent MND enchants / SvS 3-3s. (eg ammonites/scales) until it was down to 100% crit...

 

I ran numbers for average heal values for each set, at both +10 with 4/X enchants, and +30 at 7/7 or 8/8, as a comparison for both free and cash players.

(Enchants were SvS light 3-3s)

 

Salvation suprisingly won out, because the gain in MND and crit rate of 85 were not enough to offset the loss of SCAD (which of course adds to the crit heals).

FoC was behind, but not really that far, considered how cheap it is, and easy to get to +15 in an event.

 

Note - a long while ago I also did a comparison of Vig Life, L65 FoC and RH sets - FoC won out hands down, which is why I didn't consider them this time round.

 

So yea... the massive stats of the 85 set look inviting at first, but good old Salvation still rules the roost on numbers!

 

 

 

 

Of course there is no consideration here for any other stats, or PvP, or whatever. Just pure heal values!

Edited by tally, 20 October 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[exilehunter]

anything good with the newer foc sets?

 

its good to know that the old foc set is still pretty good though. 

[RadiantHelper]

The foc sets have one massive drawback and that is the lack of elec resist that is needed for quite a few raids such as erunil(second form) and AoS.

 

Salv set is very nice for PVE and for PVP however if you choose to do 3-3 lights or rh Con?mnds your defense after getting soccer kicked will be horrible and most sins will be able to shred you easily

85 set will end up with less heal however much more defense and you can still remain cap defense even after soccer kick. 

 

It really depends if you prefer to have insanely OP heals or be able to survive sin scuds. Havent played a +30 rad in a while but i remember having trouble surviving sins that were using 85 duals. Im assuming even worse against Trinity duals. (I was using 72 set)
On the other hand my current druid (same passive defense debuff pretty much) with 85 set survives a scud from a sin with trinity duals and i dont even swap to a doll.

 

Also want to mention that the defense on the foc sets is horrible.

Edited by RadiantHelper, 20 October 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[tally]

Valid points. The main reason I posted this was I was suprised that the set that's been in the game for years and years, and available at L72, had higher heals than new armour at L85 which is also tougher to get in every way.

 

Like I said, I was just looking at heals, but the elec resist is worth the compromise... and that might bring RH set into play again as a 'cheap' set.

 

Defence I have no care for, as long is it's high enough for the odd spamming mobs. I have literally no interest in PvP, far too much wallet and e-peen there!

[WhateverHeSaid]

Some points since I made my radiant (sorry for any eglish error, I'm learning yet)

RH Set (Ruinhorn's Shining) is the cheap version from set Salvation.

When I started do some raid, I tried a few cheap sets (FoC 65, Vigorous Life, Shining) before get a end set.
The heal from any set is almost the same, better to Shining cause the amount of SCAD.

Vigorous have better SCC and FoC is the "equilibrium" between both (with less def)... But all 3 have the same problem... nothing about HP

Until you get a great amount of HP, the best set to start raids is Graten ION lvl 60... he don't have any SCC or SCAD, but have a lot of good stats (CON, MND and INT).

- CON for HP;
- MND for MP, MP recovery and SCC;
- INT for SCAD, Resists and Magic Damage (good to heal too).

Some points what need be mentioned:
- make a set 85 MND (buying all item) is most cheap than buy a Salvation. Cause that and the amount of scc, set 85 MND was my choice;
- Is most easy drop set salvation, but without a ruan's competence staff, some event skill critical chance or got any wand with DC Shield, you will never reach 100%;
- you need find the point of equilibrium between HP and MP. A lot of MP is very good, but without a good amount of HP, or a lot of mp potions (to use mana shield), you don't will do nothing in hard raids. Doesn't matter if you heal 7-8k HP to die with "hit kill";
- If you want HP/MP, Ominous Hell Iron Staff is the best choice. If you want more heal, Trinity Staff;
- If you need more HP than Ominous can give, use a Knuckle. If you use all set and jewels MND, can be a good choice;

Sometimes I thought about what enchants use in armor RH CON/MND or Light 3-3. Since is better have HP and MP instead of more heals, I'm using RH CON/MND.

[RadiantHelper]

Not entirely accurate about that. I reached 100 scc with 79 staff no event crits and salv set. Claws instead of highranks. If i had event sccs could have reached 100 with high ranks

Also the HP from trinity vs omni is nearly identical the only difference is MP, better to use trinity.

[tally]

I revisited 65 FoC vs Vig Life vs Ruinhorn sets today, paying a little more attention to numbers with regards to base heals.

 

I've done a comparison at both +15 and +30 on the 3 cheapest sets, with the RH set with both VL and FoC shoulders.

 

These are the additional stats the sets will give:

Red is lowest value, Blue highest...

 

 

As you can see, the Ruinhorn set comes out high on the heals and resistance, but low on the HP and crit rate.

Vig Life has good crit and good res, again no HP.

FoC is good all round, good HP, but no res.

 

 

 

But you can't just compare a set like that - you need to look at averages and apply other stats. For example, a boost to crit rate could affect someone with high base heals more than a boost to the heals themselves. There will be a crossover point where it becomes better to add crit rather than increase heals.

 

Anyways, I used my L79 radiant for its base stats, i.e. I removed all armour (left weapon and jewels on) and looked at my crit rate (72%), and then averaged my non-crit heals (1800). I based this chart off of those stats, and used the results from the +15 sets:

 

 

Once again, these results are based on my radiant with 1800 base (without armour) heals and 72% crit....

• Vig Life is useless unless you have less than ~30% crit without armour on.
• At 72% crit without armour, Ruinhorn set with FoC shoulder results in the best average heals.
• Ruinhorn also has the best electrical resistance (38% at +15 set), but does not have any HP (well, 7 CON from the FoC shoulder..).
• FoC set is still good, and will give the best heals if you have 30-62% crit without armour. Has 480 HP, but no resistances.

 

If you'd like to see which set would be best for you, the raw data is here: http://imgur.com/a/ZOi2f
Take off your armour, look at your crit rate and work out your average non-crit heal (using all of your heals).

Find your average heal along the top of each chart, and your crit rate along the left, and that's the average heal you'd get in each of the (+15) sets....

 

 

 

 

One last thing to note - any boosts to stats, e.g. guild bonuses, honor points, pets, TD boosts, etc. will affect MND. These comparisons do not take this into account... so if it's a close call, the MND sets probably would win out in a 'real' situation. I don't have the effort to go into all that though.

Edited by tally, 21 October 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[tally]

Until you get a great amount of HP, the best set to start raids is Graten ION lvl 60... he don't have any SCC or SCAD, but have a lot of good stats (CON, MND and INT).

- CON for HP;
- MND for MP, MP recovery and SCC;
- INT for SCAD, Resists and Magic Damage (good to heal too).

 

I've not actually compared the L60 Ion set yet, the reason being it doesn't add much to the relevant stats to healing. In fact, on my Mystic healer build I'm using the L20 Ion shoes and gloves because they're easier to get better MND than the L60, as they both add only 1 MND per reinforce.... You can get to +22 with a 40% event with 100% success rate on the L20! In fact, they're the best MND set before L79 and 85 ones...

 

The CON is a good point though, and would be very useful for the L60-70 radiant looking to do dungeons and raid. All the bosses AoEs hurt (RM, WS, DS, and then RH and Biskra when you raid).

 

I'm working on expanding the comparison above to include that L60 set, and also the carus sets..

[engendrodemaldad]

Salvation is the best set for healing output if you can afford carus, L65 FoC if not. And I shall tell you for why....

 

...

 

Totally agree with your topic tally.

 

Salv set is very nice for PVE and for PVP however if you choose to do 3-3 lights or rh Con?mnds your defense after getting soccer kicked will be horrible and most sins will be able to shred you easily

 

well comparing with other caster classes I think radis can gain good defense even with salvation w/o def enchants.

 

This is my defense without equip, using devine protection +10 (+10 dna) and survival +10 (+10 dna):  2520.

 

 

Defense from Salvation: Salvation: 571 (+10)  991 (+30). So at +30 without DP: 2311, with DP: 3511. Anyway this is not my defense now, I don't use full salvation either, my set right now is salvation (5 parts) and Twilight gloves.

 

About enchants I use svs lights and some con scales, CON/MNDs kinda sucks, I think is better DC CON scales there are better ways to improve heals without MND enchants.

[RadiantHelper]

@engendrodemaldad

oh you mis-read i said after soccer kick, the defense gets pretty low. of course with DP on thats a 1.2k buff and the passive 1.2k buff really nice.

svs lights will end with the best result for heals the reason i prefer con/mnds is that you get both more hp and better heals at the same time. DC scales i find quite useless since dont really need that LRD and only gives either con or mnd.

and yah so without DP you get that 2.3k and after srdd5 procs you are under 2k ends with most sins being able to kill in scud + ht.

 

also wanted to mention that even though INT adds magic damage it does not add to the heals unless it is via scad. so the 60 graten sets though you get some pretty decent HP they seriously lack the heals that you would get through VL/foc. and cmon HP is not that hard to come by these days, if you cant afford rare/carus nm jewels you can settle for the exi temporarily.

[tally]

To back up RadiantHelper on the Ion set, I did my calcs today on it. It's good for HP and nothing else. And even then, at +15 it's not much better for HP than the FoC set...

The only benefit really is you can get it at L60 so it is good for L60-64 mini-rads until you get L65 FoC! But the 55 FoC isn't that bad either.... So I guess if you're in the L60-64 range and really need a couple hundred more HP, it's just about worth it. But you may just be better off making an HP jewel set instead and sticking with FoC....

 

Data in pretty colours...

 

Edited by tally, 22 October 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[WhateverHeSaid]

When I reach lvl for raids, I had two problems... HP and Mana Recovery...

For mp, mp recovery and improve heals, I made NM C-C [MND] jewels, enchanted with scc ion min 0.5% (MND is really cheap, I don't had much money to spent in CON jewels).

I was using RH set (+12) with vigorous life shoulders (+17) and ruan's competence staff (+11 7/7 rh light claws) and HP problem persist.

I made a cell Witch's Eys [HP], so I boost almost 600 HP, enchanted with scc ion mine 0.5 (9% scc at least). But it's not enough yet...

If RH stuns me, I died.... So I tried got more HP. I had two choices, get a Root of hell tree staff or make other set. I choose the most cheap, make another set.

FoC have a good amount of mp and balanced with scc/scad... but don't give much mana regen (not enough I mean, like RH set) if I need spam heals, so I tried ION set.
I made all +20 using vigorous life soulders (+17). I not use mall to reinf (in all sets, really... I don't fail any enchant in Ruans Staff xD). The heal down a little in critical (200, its serious), but HP, MP and MP recovery increase a lot and non critical heal is better (cause the ION set give a lot of INT, it's improve heal, since improve magic damage).

I could do the first four raids (with a few problems in Tyrant, but it's ok for me), and thats the reason cause I choose ION set. The heal don't change so much, I little (yes) but the benefit from boost HP is much better (to me).

No I have two sets of jewels (MND and CON), 85 staff CON, Enchanted Twilight (85) set MND. So I can mix the set.
- Betters heals: all jewels MND;
- Balanced: earrins/necklace/rings MND and belt/bracelet CON;
- Boost HP: all jewels HP;

Ahh, I have some RH Breathings, only in MND jewels (I think 8 or 10) and CON/MND in Enchanted Twilight.

If you can get jewels CON, and spent mall to reinf your set, RH is your best choice, but the difference (without mall) from heals it's not so high (in game).

[exilehunter]

RH and tyrant are the 2 raids you can do without getting hit at all. RH, if you stand far enough u can heal and not get stunned. its pretty easy.

 

tyrant you need to stay out of stun range as well. basically, weak rad should only jump closer to heal tank when stun is used, then you move back out of reach and heal party from there. there is no point everyone getting stunned at the same time.

[WhateverHeSaid]

Yeah, all is possible. But When RH runs, have a chance to be stunned (it's no hard escape, but have a chance) and when Tyrant have less than 5%, I think 2%, he spam stuns. Without PB, mana points ou high HP pool, the weak radiant is the first to die...

[MacMad]

At Tyrant u can easily stay out of stun range, and still reach tank with single heals.

Single heals on tank, then throw partyheal at member in middle - it will reach the tank too.

and at RH, just tell ur tank to step back a bit, u can avoid getting stunned there too

[tally]

I made a cell Witch's Eys [HP], so I boost almost 600 HP, enchanted with scc ion mine 0.5 (9% scc at least). But it's not enough yet...

...

 

I tried ION set.

 

...

 

INT, it's improve heal, since improve magic damage

 

 

You have some good points about HP, and Witch's Eye would help. I've not looked into these nightmare things yet, skill crit balls are still new to me...

Just NO for Ion set.... unless you're really desperate for HP.

 

And INT doesn't affect heals in any way, other than the 1 SCAD for every 5 INT (which I included in my calcs..)

 

As you can see, Ion set is way off the bottom...

[Freja]

I don't know how feasible it is in PvE, or even at higher levels, but in PvP at Lv69 I find going for CON, SCC and ditching Mana Shield and MND all together to be the most effective build for non-stop tanking and self and party healing.

Might be an option at higher levels too now with NM jewels. I would just calculate the MP recovery with everything, including skills, and how much it is in combat. In the 69 case the MP recovery was only around 25 MP/s, which is less than that Lv1 Rejuvenation skill, so it seemed to be useless go put skills points into MP Recovery/Concentration/MP Shield and stats in MND.