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Comparing The new Skillupdate to the old one.


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#1 FizzMo

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:01 PM

So recently there was a skill update as all active Rose Online players know. Since this update has been introduced I have been talking to people all around the Rose Online community (Draconis) about it and their thoughts. Almost everyone I have spoken to about this has said they enjoyed the old patch more and many have said "They have ruined the pvp" well yes and no. This update is good for Xbow scouts, Xbow and Sword type knights and it seems mages. Those three classes seem to be over powered over the rest. It's not just the pvp tho also i've noticed all buffset items have been disabled. Not only does it affect the pvp but to some people that's a good 70b+ wasted on items that are now useless. I think there should be a vote on if the old patch should be restored or if it shouldn't. It's only fair sincing 98% of the people I have spoken to about this say the new patch is rubbish. Who thinks it should be restored back to the old patch? and who likes this one? tell me your reasons!


Edited by FizzMo, 13 November 2013 - 01:05 PM.

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#2 Brandd0n

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

I agree, not only that tons of players I've knew already have quit because this update really blows. :p_devil:

Before this update I put so much effort into getting strong and so much time, now there are players that aren"t even putting effort in anything they just rather make any xbow classes to kill anyone with that annoying reflection skills and debuffs, I don't know if it's just me but I really hate Xbow classes its cheap. But my point is after this update I feel as if there was a big downfall to it. Less people, less PVP actions, and less community. We need a vote on this badly. Spent so much time on this game just to see alot of Down grades and its not grabbing much peoples attention either, thats how I see it and thats what I would recommended to other new players.


Edited by Brandd0n, 13 November 2013 - 01:12 PM.

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#3 Logi

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

Regardless of the vote they will ignore it, youll probably get something along the lines of we are moving forward. Also next to the skillchanges the update changed mechanics that help set up new things. Once a long time ago katars were just killer in pvp and champ were laughed at, beserk gave def down next to ap up :D. Then more changes came and champs became the strongest class, people played those 2 classes till death and while skilled players could work most classes, those 2 were easiest. Now as you say other classes have OPness, so be it, balancing is difficult in any game. Doesnt mean I dont agree that changes might be needed, the amount of sleeps and stuns is too high if you ask me, it stops pvp so many times its not fun, ranged aoe sleeps/stuns should be nerfed and my own sleep aoe ( clerics) is a little to powerfull in CD if you ask me but thats personal.

 

I loved the old game but change is needed if we are to get new things and more fun. As much as I miss the old UW, a large part of that is nostalgia talking, forgetting the countless errors he had like tauntable crystal and infinte hp knights. So I'm voting for the new patch, but like we said with dungeon and so also with pvp, tweaks are needed.


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#4 FizzMo

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:13 PM

Yeah I've noticed they Ignore what most players think. Also i've noticed this update has had a big part to play in the ITEM MALL which requires Real money such as (PVP TOMES) that are quite a rare find if you don't have a credit card maybe they made this update for money?


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#5 Phish

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:13 PM

The new skill update has the potential to be better than the previous one, though there are still some issues/balancing that should be tweaked with it.


Edited by Phish, 13 November 2013 - 01:39 PM.

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#6 Brandd0n

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:14 PM

Agree or not I'm sure this game will die pretty soon off more stupid updates like this happens. No offense.


Edited by Brandd0n, 13 November 2013 - 01:14 PM.

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#7 FizzMo

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

I think they should have a Poll and do as the results come out of it. And if the new patch stays they should have a way to trade old buffset items for zullie or something. along with nerfing xbow types and balancing classes as it was in the old patch. Another thing is they could make Leonis like this patch and Draconis like the old one?


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#8 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

Restore back to old patch, I'm 100% sure it's not going to happen.

But I agree that many people wasted all the reroll hammers on buffset for nothing, tons of money/zulies went down the drain. Though, I also agree with what the developers decided to do, it's a wrong way to play a game. There are many ways to make PvP interesting other than using buffsets, I think PvP should depends more on player skill setup, reaction time and decision making not buffsets.

Of course, I'm happy with buffset removal, because I don't need to wait people to switch set to buffset them since I play cleric 90% of the time. For now, it ruins lots of players mood to play because of buffset. I hope the developer has a solution to make PvP more interesting as soon as possible. They are losing a lot of revenue from reroll hammers, because only the cleric class need to get buffset.


As of right now, I think bow scout, dual raider are underpowered and knights are overpowered. Then the number of clerics allowed on each should be limited to 2 at most, because with 3 clerics, war become a stalemate.


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#9 FizzMo

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:28 PM

Also Gravity if you havn't noticed your drop in players since you started updating? Remember the days when you would go to luna and there would be shops in Eucar? and Xita? and Junon would be PACKED. Now there's a thin stream of shops in Junon and you wounder, Why is everyone quitting? This is why. Because you make stupid update decisions that only base on the amount of money you get from players via item mall. You don't think if you just let people vote and decide what is wanted then maybe the amount of players you have would be higher? and the amount of people buying Item Mall would also be higher, because you have more players. I vote make Leo like this update and Draconis like the old one then players have the choice on which update they want to play!


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#10 SlowBob

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:29 PM

Regardless of the vote they will ignore it, youll probably get something along the lines of we are moving forward. Also next to the skillchanges the update changed mechanics that help set up new things. Once a long time ago katars were just killer in pvp and champ were laughed at, beserk gave def down next to ap up :D. Then more changes came and champs became the strongest class, people played those 2 classes till death and while skilled players could work most classes, those 2 were easiest. Now as you say other classes have OPness, so be it, balancing is difficult in any game. Doesnt mean I dont agree that changes might be needed, the amount of sleeps and stuns is too high if you ask me, it stops pvp so many times its not fun, ranged aoe sleeps/stuns should be nerfed and my own sleep aoe ( clerics) is a little to powerfull in CD if you ask me but thats personal.

 

I loved the old game but change is needed if we are to get new things and more fun. As much as I miss the old UW, a large part of that is nostalgia talking, forgetting the countless errors he had like tauntable crystal and infinte hp knights. So I'm voting for the new patch, but like we said with dungeon and so also with pvp, tweaks are needed.

 

Omg, once a long time ago......don't tell me my katar is outdated! :P

 

@FizzMo:

you can get pvp skill tomes in the honor shop

 

@Brandd0n:

Correct me if i'm wrong, but in the past few weeks i've seen some old players returning. CD does actually start those days and Draconis seems to be a way more crowded.
 


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#11 jerremy

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:30 PM

As of right now, I think bow scout, dual raider are underpowered and knights are overpowered. Then the number of clerics allowed on each should be limited to 2 at most, because with 3 clerics, war become a stalemate.

Bow scouts aren't actually that underpowered, the problem is that the crossbow scout far outshines the bow skill tree in every aspect. Although a slight buff for bow scouts could be appropriate, it is mostly the crossbow scout that needs to see a reduction. 


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#12 FireJin

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:33 PM

To me I like new update more than old one.

Reason
1. I have not seen people have same stat, skill build,and same equipment because there are limited skill point. War/Cd build cannot do pvp/war pvp. So it is good to see many kind of build in the same class.

2. If you talking about knight in pvp or war pvp, you can say they are OP. I don't think that way. If knight pvp/war pvp with other class and got defeated by one person. What is the point of having knight to tank for team in CD? I just concerned of xbow knight trashtalk to other people. Most of knight I have seen in Dragonis talking like a boss because no one can kill them. It is just because knight is not suppose to be taken down by one person.

3. At first when skill update, people say some class is OP, some class is weak when they cannot beat, people say 2-hand champ is OP because of mute (I won't talk about knight. Knight should just pvp with knight). But now I can build Axe champ to beat 2-h champ in war pvp. I have seen Katar raider can beat 2-hand Champ as well.

4. Buff set, I could say that I am not that poor. I have char for every epic weapons that mean I have all job, I have ton of buffset before this update. And I don't feel bad to see buffset is gone. Why? When buffset, everyone just has same thing to do buff what they want and come at the last set they use in combat. Now they just need to adjust more, think more what set is the best to combat with. Don't you think it is more challenge?

5. I understand some class now die so easy like mage, or ba. But if think in other way, Mage is the class that can beat knight alone. BA has strong summon that can aoe and aoe def down, has sleep and 2 stun

Anyway, I like this update, I don't wanna see same class has same build or can hijack other skill from another skill tree like old one.

Don't forget that the update is not done yet.
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#13 FizzMo

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:33 PM

SlowBob tell me what class are you? Did you have buffsets in the last patch? Do you only like this update because in the last one you sucked? Yeah they are in the Honor shop for an unreasonable amount of points. I know lots of people who gave up on that and just bought item mall (Exactly what Gravity wanted)


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#14 Brandd0n

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:33 PM

I only see you guys support this update because you guys didn't probaly didn't go through what we had to do. What point you don't see is that we put so much effort into this game just to see crap load of disappointments you guys may not see it but I see it.


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#15 Leonis

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:34 PM

I can appreciate the comparison between experiences of playing pre and post the skill update.

It can really benefit us to know specifically what you comparatively enjoyed between the two experiences by explaining specifics.

General statements are incredibly difficult to piece apart to try and take in to consideration for what could be changed for the future.

 

There's been a consistent review over the classes, balance and player feedback since it was launched. We didn't want to set the community in to a constant frenzy of change immediately after, because the initial shock would have been large enough to send everything in to a craze of feedback.

 

It's been a good solid amount of time and throughout it, feedback and monitoring play has been conducted and compared to intended design changes. We're approaching a period where there will be some player balances that have been spoken out against over time in regards to class balances and abilities.

 

I'm not here to answer anything specific at this point in time, but I wanted to help try to guide the discussion to being more constructive and productive, than make rash statements without actual facts to base them off of, such as "everyone is quitting" or being negative just to be negative.


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#16 FizzMo

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:37 PM

Well Leonis why don't you do a poll like I suggested? this game is for the players right?


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#17 Brandd0n

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:48 PM

So xbow's, I get the point they can tank but they can kill massively as well what kind of fairly crap is that? thats basically what you call OP! tanking and killing simple and easy, they even got debuffs with that reflection, and TAUNT. Calling that not OP is just plain stupid. I'm a bow scout I don't complain but I always be being crap talked by more then 1 xbow friends because I can't kill them and thats just logic I don't bother even trying to explain myself to them about that. More to this game I dislike. Thats just me and I'm agreeing with FizzMo because he seems to dislike it as much as I do. Xbows right now are the top notch as of right now. Agree with that or not. Me complaining seem like it won't do any thing about that since I'm just 1 person but I rather just let it out to those who doesn't know how me or some others see it.


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#18 Phish

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:57 PM

To me I like new update more than old one.


2. If you talking about knight in pvp or war pvp, you can say they are OP. I don't think that way. If knight pvp/war pvp with other class and got defeated by one person. What is the point of having knight to tank for team in CD? I just concerned of xbow knight trashtalk to other people. Most of knight I have seen in Dragonis talking like a boss because no one can kill them. It is just because knight is not suppose to be taken down by one person.

 

 

 

One way to make knights tankish in group combat but not completely invincible in 1v1 situations would be to  decrease some of their bulk (probably via blocking) and make an aoe version of absorptive assault, that absorbs hp based on the damage you deal. Obviously, hitting multiple targets will increase damage which in term heals the knight further.


Edited by Phish, 13 November 2013 - 01:58 PM.

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#19 alvinmx

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:58 PM

I can appreciate the comparison between experiences of playing pre and post the skill update.

It can really benefit us to know specifically what you comparatively enjoyed between the two experiences by explaining specifics.

General statements are incredibly difficult to piece apart to try and take in to consideration for what could be changed for the future.

 

There's been a consistent review over the classes, balance and player feedback since it was launched. We didn't want to set the community in to a constant frenzy of change immediately after, because the initial shock would have been large enough to send everything in to a craze of feedback.

 

It's been a good solid amount of time and throughout it, feedback and monitoring play has been conducted and compared to intended design changes. We're approaching a period where there will be some player balances that have been spoken out against over time in regards to class balances and abilities.

 

I'm not here to answer anything specific at this point in time, but I wanted to help try to guide the discussion to being more constructive and productive, than make rash statements without actual facts to base them off of, such as "everyone is quitting" or being negative just to be negative.

 

Actually we are suffering a constant frenzy of changes.....u guys changed general mobs difficult lvl (more hp-def-dodge), I cant get in cart or sawp jewerly/gears if im being atacked (u already took out buffsets, this modification is kinda weird tbh), same changes in dungeons and kings.....

 

Prision is no longer an option to lvl (as me and many other players told u already, u can go look by urself). I posted a message directly to you and the GM team leo, where the poll option to get gamers opinión is mentioned too.

 

Please Leo, let us help you...we enojy and care about the game, at least i do, we can work together to get it better to both parts (gamers/development team)


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#20 BlowInTheDark

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:59 PM

You guys should've helped on Pegasus. I believe they tested the changes there before they were implemented on the live servers.


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#21 alvinmx

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:14 PM

You guys should've helped on Pegasus. I believe they tested the changes there before they were implemented on the live servers.

 

 

they did the skill testing on pegasus which not include the adjustments they just made on the regular monsters / dungeons / kings difficulty, also they did not adress the prisión changes on that testing.


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#22 BlowInTheDark

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:34 PM

they did the skill testing on pegasus which not include the adjustments they just made on the regular monsters / dungeons / kings difficulty, also they did not adress the prisión changes on that testing.

 

I know. My reply was for the TS.


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#23 SlowBob

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:56 PM

SlowBob tell me what class are you? Did you have buffsets in the last patch? Do you only like this update because in the last one you sucked? Yeah they are in the Honor shop for an unreasonable amount of points. I know lots of people who gave up on that and just bought item mall (Exactly what Gravity wanted)

 

lol SlowBob is a knight, actually i got each class multiple times, mainly i pvp with my raider though. Yes i had all buffsets for my raider before the patch, i even used some extra sets to buff up in dungeons on my pvm accounts. Erm yes, i definitly suck. 4k honor points ain't much, i mean if you are running a few cd's each day + if you are doing the quest, you will prob hit something about 500points per day....calc through it....


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#24 Leonis

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:14 PM

Well Leonis why don't you do a poll like I suggested? this game is for the players right?

We put in effort to create a world for our players to enjoy, existing and new alike. But the idea of 'voting' for the next update is not practical.

Your feedback helps guide the direction, but we have much more to consider behind a simple suggestion that may be liked.

 

 

Yeah they are in the Honor shop for an unreasonable amount of points. I know lots of people who gave up on that and just bought item mall (Exactly what Gravity wanted)

You say unreasonable, but those skills can make a big difference and are essentially permanent purchases once learned, unless you reset. So yes, we made them expensive as they are highly desired items to work for. I'm sorry you weren't willing to put in the time to earn one through normal game play, but don't blame your impatience on us.

 

One way to make knights tankish in group combat but not completely invincible in 1v1 situations would be to  decrease some of their bulk (probably via blocking) and make an aoe version of absorptive assault, that absorbs hp based on the damage you deal. Obviously, hitting multiple targets will increase damage which in term heals the knight further.

As I mentioned, it's been some time and Phish you tend to be in line with how some balances can be addressed.

I do like the idea of an AoE Absorptive Assault style skill though. :) It would allow for an additional sustain in group combat, but lack the ability in solo or low number combat. I still wouldn't want to take away from their existing AA though. Perhaps a unique version?

 

Actually we are suffering a constant frenzy of changes.....u guys changed general mobs difficult lvl (more hp-def-dodge), I cant get in cart or sawp jewerly/gears if im being atacked (u already took out buffsets, this modification is kinda weird tbh), same changes in dungeons and kings.....

 

Prision is no longer an option to lvl (as me and many other players told u already, u can go look by urself). I posted a message directly to you and the GM team leo, where the poll option to get gamers opinión is mentioned too.

 

Please Leo, let us help you...we enojy and care about the game, at least i do, we can work together to get it better to both parts (gamers/development team)

 

Constant frenzy of changes? Really? Prior to patch v490, the one before that, that contained any balance adjustments was 486, which was over a month in time between, of which most patches contained bug fixes. The tweaks and corrections that followed the Skill Update were immediate feedback issues that were given, not intended, or bug fixes.

  1. Monster changes were because they were no longer up to par with a player's strength and the challenge in gameplay became boring and overly easy.
    • Which by the way, encourages the lazy style of playing we have been getting complaints about, referred to as 'bot parties', I call "afk leveling".
  2. You can't get in to a cart? Not sure what that's about.
  3. You can't swap gear when you're being attacked? Intentional, it was discussed in the past and finally announced to its implementation and why.
  4. We didn't "take out" buff sets, but we did change how buffs are applied. It was in part because of how the skills were being changed and in doing so, the mechanics to how buffs apply and adapt to their targeted application was necessary otherwise we were facing some additional problems we did not intend to take place.
  5. Dungeons changes were because nearly every dungeon was being walked through, when they were intended for party play and to be a fun challenge to be overcome with a team. Not solo or with a partner, but a party.
  6. Prison is still an option, many players no longer play there because it is no longer the easy level spot it once was to grind away at. I've seen players play down there, level fine, but need to stay attentive and adapt to the changing factors that were put to use in the dungeon. Those who understand it enjoy it and have welcomed the challenge.
  7. You do help us, but understand that we're not going to strictly adhere to the voices of complaints because things changed in mid to high level content, where you are no longer being hand held and everything is an easy walk through. Prison is one of the old dungeons, before we had the Game Arena. It deserved an update that encourages party play and teamwork.

There are multiple fronts we have to keep in consideration, between party, solo and competitive play. We can't hit all of them always at once and sometimes will roll out a step towards a greater goal. Prison is an example of that, where it is a party play zone, with little solo options. But the update to it was needed because only about 5% of the map was being used, which was the front door.


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#25 Phish

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:24 PM

 

As I mentioned, it's been some time and Phish you tend to be in line with how some balances can be addressed.

I do like the idea of an AoE Absorptive Assault style skill though. :) It would allow for an additional sustain in group combat, but lack the ability in solo or low number combat. I still wouldn't want to take away from their existing AA though. Perhaps a unique version?

 

 

Unique skill could work. I've had some ideas for unique skills for all classes.


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