115 replies to this topic

[Leonis]

This is an early warning.

 

I have the intention to bring Pegasus up for some testing and feedback regarding what I've been working on to balance out the Accuracy and Dodge designs.

 

Since this is includes a low level mechanic change, I'm going to put it up for testing before we bring it to the live server.

 

I will disclose as much information as I feel is pertinent to understanding what the changes are and how they are intended, so ideas, suggestions and feedback can be advantageous for us in the goal we're going to work towards.

 

To help speed things up, I want to copy over live server data to Pegasus, so testing can be done with your characters and you can compare between Pegasus and the live servers.

 

Unfortunately, that also means we can only pick one server to pull the data from, because merging would take too long and be an extreme headache.

Don't be disappointed though! Whatever server doesn't get picked to be tested with first, for this weekend, the other will be able to test the following weekend, with whatever advancements are made from the feedback given this weekend.

 

There will be no special Pegasus setups on the test server to allow you to min-max everything and play with selective gear. This is why I'm copying the live server data over. I want you to test with what you know now and see how you may need to adjust, not be the best you can be.

 

Consider this to be an early peek preview that has the ability to be shaped to something better enjoyed without impacting current experiences.

 

Feel free to post anything you'd like about this, but don't forget to vote.

 

Friday is when I plan to open Pegasus up and the data will be pulled from the maintenance performed this week with some monster balances in mind.

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Download the Client Here --> http://games.gravity...linePegasus.msi

[Logi]

Sounds interesting Leonis, I voted Leonis ofcourse but the fact that both servers get a chance is awesome! Also after playing my dualraider a little today I can't wait for an update on dodge, I feel I need at least +15 gears, full dodge subs and dex or dodgegems on the rest to even get a chance to dodge. I'm so glad now that I was too lazy to delete pegasus from my compy.

[Dirtyarry]

nice idea taking what we really play into consideration,we can all add the highest of everything in a test server and run around like GODS.

but the reality of going back to what we really own can dishearten some ppl 

 

The possibility of a dex cleric again is making me smile ty

 

dusting off the jades again

[Bendersmom]

Lol I voted Draconis.  I would rather they try it out, it gets adjusted then Leonis gets to try it out.  I hope whenever it happens and whichever server gets it first they have enough people to try out GA - dungeons and CD, etc.  

I am assuming we will have free stat and skill resets - true?  Usually on Pegasus when testing it is good to try out different builds and gear.

[jerremy]

Personally I think the Leonis server should test first. Not to put my own server, Draconis, down, but when it comes to forum activity, there's a lot more active Leonis players than there are Draconis players. 

[Dutcheagle]

Cant wait to test it and i'm glad i still got the pegasus client installed  so what i'm getting of this is that we will still play with our own gears just on pegasus client correct me if im wrong though  .

[DigitalKitten]

Ahh I'm looking foward to this testing since I'm really curious around the changes of dodge and acc. can we get more details of what the "goal" around this testing is? What will be done with acc and dodge since I haven't heard much about it at all. 

 

=x will there be any dropbox version of the download? I've had issues with getting pegasus to work before hence why I never managed to test it out the other times it's been up, despite the first time you guys decided to run it.

[Dirtyarry]

Cant wait to test it and i'm glad i still got the pegasus client installed  so what i'm getting of this is that we will still play with our own gears just on pegasus client correct me if im wrong though  .

This is how most of us are reading it yeah, 

[Leonis]

DigitalKitten, I'll see about getting a DropBox link for the Pegasus client to download. You will still have to go through the patching process though.

 

Some details:

 

I've been going over the mechanics and the items (equipment only at this point) to see how dodge and accuracy stack up against one another. Basically, I'm comparing how they 'generate' against one another.

 

For anyone who may not understand what I mean by "generate", it means, as you level, your accuracy and dodge naturally increases by leveling and wearing new equipment. Each class should have a different rate, but within that, there is a 'base' or 'average' rate of growth. Finding that growth for accuracy and dodge, let's me (us) see, how they compare to each other. When considering what the growth average is, they should be comparable, if not equal. Unfortunately, there are other factors to consider, such as passive skills, which increase that 'natural growth' considerably. Accuracy being one of the common passives amongst every class, but not dodge, makes dodge a bit more underpowered, depending on build.

 

You may consider the fact that you have more armor equipment pieces that produce dodge, than a weapon. This is true, however the dodge values on equipment are split up, between a full set, which is intended to be an approximation to the equivalent weapon's level of accuracy. It is actually almost another penalty, because you have to refine 4-5 pieces of armor for dodge, while you only focus on 1 for accuracy.

 

The growth of accuracy and dodge off your stats are equal, and in the concept of being equal, we felt this was correct and the problem lied in other realms of game play. Turns out no so much. We expanded the considerations of how accuracy and dodge truly stack up against one another with many of the common factors that universally apply to all the classes, skills and refining.

 

Why not buffs? Buffs are temporary and situational. They can be removed by some classes, and are not always consistent due to player build.

Why not gems? Because gems are also inconsistent. A player chooses which they wish to use, either based on a situation or based on their game play.

Buffs and gems are bonuses in our eyes and set you apart from the base of design. And right now what we're looking to work on is improving the base line of design for accuracy and dodge, so that there is a better expectation behind their impact and natural scale of functionality. A less fancy way of saying it; we want there to be more of an effect felt when you pump dex or con, than currently.

 

We will not be making the impact so noticeable that stats create that huge of an impact, but enough that you don't feel like it is useless. There still is a design point to getting passives, finding those gems and bonus stats on equipment.

 

So, what does this mean?

It means:

1. We will be adjusting the core values that come from increasing your DEX and CON.
2. We will be changing the amount of accuracy & dodge, that come from equipment.
3. We will be tweaking the passive values for accuracy.

Why not dodge passives? There's not many who have access to one.

[DigitalKitten]

Thanks for the response, I'm really looking forward to it. I've felt that dodge is weak, as have many players, but I choose not to complain since it's not completely under powered if you know how to play, but compared to other classes, buffing dodge would be a nice idea, raiders are a tiny bit too squishy right now. I can understand the squishyness for a high damage class, but raiders don't really do that much of a damage to be that squishy, they're great kill stealers though.

[DrunkinMonkey]

its a shame my raider isnt 230 yet and still the old 210 would be teh best one of my guys to test out the dodge on :/ especially in a pvp style atmosphere

[Archtog]

I really am glad to see all the work going into balance and I hope I can find time this weekend to help with this testing. Thanks, Leo.

[Leonis]

Patch is up for Pegasus v62.

 

This contains all the updates to make it match to the live servers. If you want to begin patching now.

Patch v63, will be ready shortly and contain the finishing touches for the Accuracy and Dodge changes to equipment, skills and mechanics.

[Leonis]

Okay, Pegasus is up with server data from Leonis.

 

I will be leaving it on through the weekend, please jump in and test out what you can regarding the Accuracy / Dodge changes.

 

DEX now gives a little more to Dodge than CON does to Accuracy, is the low level mechanical change. It is anticipated that the increase difference helps allow dodge to generate better along side accuracy.

 

Equipment for all classes have been rescaled with this new base comparison and should help assist with other mechanics, such as refining and skills, both passive and temporary, to better scale with that of accuracy.

 

Good luck, have fun and please be sure to post your feedback whether you love or hate it and don't forget to say why! Without your experiences shared, progression in a better update will take longer.

[DrunkinMonkey]

good thing i have pegasus backed up to my portable hdd will check this out tonight cheers leo

[PureCreativity]

I might try this out when I wake up, thanks Leonis.

[BarbieChi]

Is there somthing wrong with the client. The first try I download it was 75mb. Second try 42mb.

 

 

 

 

And everytime I run it it always like this.

 

[Valakas]

 

Is there somthing wrong with the client. The first try I download it was 75mb. Second try 42mb.

 

 

 

 

And everytime I run it it always like this.

 

 

Had the same problem before, but deleting previous installer and re-downloading new ones and run it via admin privilege kinda fixed it for me. Idk if it would work for you. 

[DigitalKitten]

Seems like you guys put in the content that was on our character before the current patch, so I don't have my "normal" gears on my main character, so I can't fully test like I'd like to. 

However, there's currently only me and WhatsFudge (Pinballwizard) online, would be nice if more people could get on, as us two pvping doesn't lead to that much ~ 

 

 

Ps. There's issues to log in with certain accounts saying "user doesn't exist" but it works on other accounts + on the normal server ^_^ 

Edited by DigitalKitten, 23 November 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[MangupaT]

I installed but deleted again.Felt like   .

[Phish]

From my experience:

 

 

1 Con = 1.25 Accuracy

1 Dex = 1.5 Dodge (increased from 1.25)

 

Accuracy passives were restored to their original state; no more 10 points for 5% accuracy.

 

Base dodge value on armors were changed. Here are the values for unrefined level 200 honor armor:

 

 

 

As you can see, Dealer and Hawker armor got a slight increase, Muse got a huge increase and Soldier was decreased. Muse armor now has the second highest dodge (Dealer armor used to have higher dodge).  I didn't really get a chance to put all classes to the test in terms of dodging, but I can say that the Soldier dodge nerf was unnecessary. 

 

On the live server, Soldier aren't dodging anything to begin with, and now on Pegasus where everyone's accuracy passives were improved and their dodge was lowered, the dodge stat is even more of a joke to them. This is especially ironic considering that Spear Champ's have a dodge passive which leads one to believe that they should get a benefit from it. I played around with spear champs in pvp and their dodge is still pretty awful. 

 

 

Soldier armor shouldn't have had a dodge reduction, it was already very low to begin with.  Spear champs should get an accuracy down status on one of their skills, so they can almost make use of the stat. Katar Raiders can definitely dodge now. Duals aren't bad but they need to rely more on Evasive Guard and mental storm, and until the self buff overlapping bug is fixed, they can't use Evasive Guard in group combat.  Not too sure about Dealers or Muses, and I haven't tested dodge in pvm yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[jerremy]

Soldier armor shouldn't have had a dodge reduction, it was already very low to begin with.  Spear champs should get an accuracy down status on one of their skills, so they can almost make use of the stat.

This isn't really regarding the accuracy/dodge changes (Haven't been able to test yet either, as I'm a Draconis player) but wholeheartedly this.

In my opinion the AoE's in the champion tab should all have some kind of effect, rather than just plain damage (the damage isn't that high to begin with). I'm thinking of accuracy down on dance of wind, attack speed down on dance of ice and slightly improved skill power (or changed to magic attack) on dance of fire.

Edited by jerremy, 24 November 2013 - 04:51 AM.

[SlowBob]

I'm feeling lonely on pegasus...

[jerremy]

I'm feeling lonely on pegasus...

I can feel lonely together with you on my 196 mage heh.

[Dirtyarry]

I'm feeling lonely on pegasus...

you want to know lonely!!

 

4 Hrs yesterday me and 2 raiders,who didn't have any decent gears ^^(IMO)

 

 

But regarding the dodge rate i felt like a dex cleric again

(Battle cleric build) worked nice with the dodge alterations, but as i stated above i was pvping 2 very average raiders who logged saw a cleric and though they where gods..  

  

we tried letting them go mental 2v1 and yes they had a effective time, when i was skilled to hold shield.

but after i swapped out my build to use the offhand passive (book) they found it more difficult as the block/dodge combo

was very effective against there full on attacks.throw into the mix mana shield and sleep i was holding my own ok..ish

 

on the reverse i don't really know what was happening?

i would ask them, but they were just in testing cos it was open (we all know the type) sit heal you say Go...

when we would go out for buffs i would ask to see there gears, and all they would say "it's honor gears" 

their dodge seemed to be better than i have witnessed over on the live server, 

 

i also tried some pvm but i have not really found the dodge in pvm a problem, Battle cleric's don't have much need to worry in pvm as the mob is normally dead before it gets to hit you (unless its a ranged mob)

but @ 230 there is a limited amount of challenge pvm (but this is a whole new convo)

i belive this should just be rolled out into the live servers. the feed bk will be more effective

the continued tinkering is something we have all come to accept..

 

but thanks for the chance to try it

 

Edited by Dirtyarry, 24 November 2013 - 07:42 AM.