160 replies to this topic

[Leinzan]

On the Crescentia side, it seems to be going well, altho Im not very sure because its hard to compare.

 

Yesterday I opened my Crescentia's stat window and saw the ATK on the 1.9k which was pretty nice, but then I turned to see the MATK and found it skyrocketed to 4k, (still wondering where that came from...),

 

Given that my current gears are a mix of Colo T2, T1, Raid T1 H and CoA N, with the right rotation I do a competent and comparable damage to full colo Assassins or Rogues PvE wise, altho Cres are slow starters they hit like a truck, the concentrated DoT Damage is quite considerable and SP cost wise is very nice (have potted for SP like 2-3 times on RM H fights), now they are comparable to a Ranger's Wedge + Poison Arrow, except that none is AoE.

 

Thing is, Land of Darkness is still missing all its ticks, and Stigma Mastery is not making Stigmas last for 10 seconds.

 

I have my doubts about the benefits of Crucio lvl 10 in comparison to Crucio lvl 5 DPS wise, but that will require some math, so will report about it later.

[nashR2]

SP Consumption is a lot higher than it used to be, but it only becomes a huge factor in very long fights, which can mean quite a few things. Consuming a potion does not require you to take any extra time. You can while using skills, while moving, etc. All this means is that everyone should prepare and carry a few blue potions to raids.

 

Have you ever stopped to consider how many red potions are consumed by your Tanks/MDPS, in the past and now? SP is a trivial worry.
 

 

Hmmmmm u obviously havent played a Wiz or a sorc in the recent few days! While i agree that the SP consumption may have gone upfor all classes have u looked at it with regard to the corresponding damage output?

 Wiz have it bad....but sorcs have to do their level best to even get above a priest in the threat chart! And that is from an alchemist...f2p..cant afford ygg anymore  for blues ....maxed water emblem...switching to it everytime i get procs!

  

 

 

This thread is bout suggestions for a group of classes that got it bad.

U form a raid.....priests r hard to come by.....but sorcs(i am one) and rangers r abundant, prolly yours too.

Just the existance of this thread is kinda proof that people in charge have no idea of whats happening here. Their laxity apart......pls dont contribute to their apparent ignorance!

Edited by nashR2, 24 December 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[nashR2]

When a caster class and more importantly your own healers have to stop every second to pot a lot and burn entire stacks of blue pots per raid bosss... thats a bit TOO much. Occasionally having to pot is not a problem, but as of now the sp consumption is too much and we end up potting more often than dps'ing/healing. How is that "ok"? I don't think you'd like it if your priest runs out of sp pots in middle of a battle and can't heal you or was too late to heal you because they had to pot first. Would you like it? I don't think so~ The same applies for dps casters. This isn't fair. This is stupid.

 

We need corresponding DMG output to SP consumption as melee classes!

 The disparity in DoT with other classes also doesnt seem to make sense.....we tend to miss a lot....yet we have lower DoTs..and the DoTs have a longer dmg effective time for classes that dont miss a lot and have more quicker spams!

[nashR2]

Have it the same way as before.

Nerf it a notch or a percentage to maintain balance between the classes.

 

Also, I don't think only the mage classes had problems with this patch. I think EVERY class got a nerfed skill (except for Rangers. I think).

 

I think you guys need a better Test Team. Or at least test the patch before your release it.

I don't want to sound rude or mean, but people spend time and money on this game, including myself.

Make it at least worthwhile.

 

Good luck with the fixes c:

Merry Christmas ♥

 

Totally edited.

 

Hmmmmm i think i would disagree with u on para 2....

 for mage classes.....dmg output in correlation to SP cost isnt at par with other classes. Although SP costs have been increased for all classes(guessing)
 

[nashR2]

Mhm. *farms chaos and spends 10000 blue pots*

 

Farm chaos n b lucky!

Dat one priest and one sorc!

[nashR2]

Oh gawd m spamming now ^_^

But i am desperate!

I wanna play a fun sorc!

I dont want the game to die(i think most will agree sorcs and rangers form quite a part of the game population)

[Xintello]

I guess using master blue potions must be hard for people huh? Doesn't seem to be the case for all the competent wizards,Soul Makers, and Sorcs I know though. And if you're a priest and complaining about not having mana you need to reconsider everything you know about your class.

 

Try being a rogue for a day and see what using pots is really like.

[GuardianTK]

SP Consumption is a lot higher than it used to be, but it only becomes a huge factor in very long fights, which can mean quite a few things. Consuming a potion does not require you to take any extra time. You can while using skills, while moving, etc. All this means is that everyone should prepare and carry a few blue potions to raids.

 

Have you ever stopped to consider how many red potions are consumed by your Tanks/MDPS, in the past and now? SP is a trivial worry.
 

 

Someone here hasn't played a Soulmaker or Sorcerer since the update. I've played a Soulmaker in several raids since the AoV update and have been struggling to keep my SP up during RM H and something like PVE H. Great example, 3min into the RM H fight my SM is down to 25% SP, even while chugging Blue Potions whenever the potion cooldown is finished. During the fight, I never once saw a physical attack class need to use a Blue Potion of any sort. This was the same thing over several different raid parties. They dish out a ton more DPS and yet we have to expend all of our main skills(That alone is why SP drain is so high for magic classes at the moment...) in order to somehow keep up? This is even more problematic now, because raids aren't as noob Dodge easy as it was before the 12/22 patch. This now requires more moments of needing to heal your raid members, but that's assuming you don't have an OP Sorc single EE +1000x Heal in the current patch. Yes, I was using Master Blue Potions. I used more than 20 of them and a Purple Spinel at some point. There is no reason for you to have to expend so many SP restorative items while you sometimes also have to use HP restoratives on top of it.

 

Have you ever stopped to consider how much SP is used by the classes who augment a Tank/MDPS' survivability by providing heals on top of their potions? Your argument is just as ignorant as Tiduspeco's earlier post in this thread. Priests and Wizards have SP restorative skills, but Sorcerers and Soulmakers do not.

Edited by GuardianTK, 24 December 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[Xintello]

Someone here hasn't played a Soulmaker or Sorcerer since the update. I've played a Soulmaker in several raids since the AoV update and have been struggling to keep my SP up during RM H and something like PVE H. Great example, 3min into the RM H fight my SM is down to 25% SP, even while chugging Blue Potions whenever the cooldown is finished. This is even more problematic now, because raids aren't as noob Dodge easy as it was before the 12/22 patch. This now requires more moments of needing to heal your raid members, but that's assuming you don't have an OP Sorc single EE +1000x Heal in the current patch. Yes, I was using Master Blue Potions. I used more than 20 of them and a Purple Spinel at some point. There is no reason for you to have to expend so many SP restorative items while you sometimes also have to use HP restoratives on top of it.

 

Have you ever stopped to consider how much SP is used by the classes who augment a Tank/MDPS' survivability by providing heals on top of their potions? Your argument is just as uneducated as Tiduspeco's earlier post in this thread. Priests and Wizards have SP restorative skills, but Sorcerers and Soulmakers do not.

 

First off 20 master blues in a fight is nothing.

 

If your fights are taking such a long time that is obviously because your groups DPS isn't up to par.

 

SM does have quite a bit of costly skills but if you manage them wisely and use master blues there shouldn't be a reason to ever run out of mana. I have never seen a competent raider run out of SP in any raid. Then again like I said up top it matters who is in your group if they are not to par perhaps you should find new members for said group. This update allows people with subpar gear to enter dungeons they normally shouldn't have been geared up to enter if you're going into pug raids. Also they are handing out 10 explorer blue potions out of that 10 coin box so use them.

 

Also as stated in some post above using a potion can be done while you're casting skills. Tanks had to chug stacks of master reds before and rogues chugged even more than that.

[Rodriggo]

SP Consumption is a lot higher than it used to be, but it only becomes a huge factor in very long fights, which can men quite a few things. Consuming a potion does not require you to take any extra time. You can while using skills, while moving, etc. All this means is that everyone should prepare and carry a few blue potions to raids.

 

Have you ever stopped to consider how many red potions are consumed by your Tanks/MDPS, in the past and now? SP is a trivial worry.
 

 

I agree with the most part of this. SP should be a problem for casters as HP is for MDPS and tanks. Casters should worry about running out of sp in the middle of battle as "the more exposed" classes worry about their hp. The sad part is that we were used to the low sp costs and never using a blue pot, so when it changed we all freaked out. But that is not all.

 

The part i don't agree is when you say they "should prepare and carry A FEW potions". Well, that is exactly the problem: it is not just a few. The SP consumption, at least as i have tested on my sorcerer and my soulmaker, is making them to run out of sp with a few skills while pots can't sustain that. It is just not normal that, as someone said before, a JT consumes more than what a npc 10s cd potion heals :/ Just NO.

 

---------------------

 

About the feedback:

 

Priests:

* They are better with the last patch. At least our heals are higher with that matk scaling for the class.

* Still a potion can outheal us, but i think this class is doing much better than a few days ago and i assume this will change when you fix the potions... or were they intended to heal that smount of hp? o.O if so, at least change the description, plz

* I haven't finished my math homework, but i think the percentages in the descriptions are not the same the skills do at the end. This apply to all classes, as i've seen.

* Idk if you can do something about it, but it would be good to have more of our healing skills levels extended instead of just the dps branch and HH.

* Maybe this is much to ask, but i was expecting a resurrection cd reduction. Even adding a few levels to make the cd lower (20 or 10m maybe?) would make the skill worth some skill points. I highly doubt someone is putting more than 1 point here atm.

 

Sorcerers:

* I'm not sure where i should begin. SP consumption really affects this class since you can run out of sp with just a few skills. Unless you go for a full-wis build and drink blue pots as a maniac LOL

* Just like the priest, a healing level extension would be good, not only the dps branch. Since this was suppose to be a class with the possibility to choose between good dps/heal/hybrid, i think on master levels it should be able to choose again. On the skill level extension, i mean.

* I assume you are already working on the fix of some skills like earth emblem, healing wave or aqua elemental (idk if it hits since the last patch, didn't try again). If not, please fix D:

* Res cd reduced too? plz? *-*

* That lightning bolt DoT... i'm sure it was intended to work more for magicians than wiz/sorc. If that is correct, why not extend coldbolt instead of LB levels?

* The dps of a sorc is now risible. Imho the skill rotation of this class is broken and you should do something about it. Buff VS/JT damage? fix or improve hit/crit rate? bigger sp pool? reduce sp consumption? maybe a combination of those?

 

Soulmakers:

* I have not played much my soulmaker, but i noticed the damage is pretty low, worse considering every class' damage is supposed to be better now. I can barely dps and the sp consumption really hurts when i use sacrifice or immunity >.<

* At least cure now stacks. Is stronger and lasts longer than priest renovatio and i think it's ok for SM as a support class to have this.

* Soul extortion healing effect was intented to be so low? :/

* Considering they don't have Ymir Child transformation, could they at least receive a full heal when they use awakening? (unless this full heal is just a bug on ymir transformation >_<) Forget it :v Thanks TK

 

Wizards:

* Idk, i deleted mine long time ago :v but i've heard they still have damage and sp issues. I hope they get their power back >_<

* About the dps/sp issue... they still can go fire emblem (while fighting)->water emblem->water explosion->fire emblem again, don't they? I don't think that is going to solve this, but as long as the sp heal from pots is not enough (as i've read) this seems a fair patch solution.

 

I will stop here, because i'm not sure if "magic based" means "magic spells" or "int based", so idk if we should say something about monks, crecentias, knights and warriors too >.<

 

 

Love how everyone in this community rages more at each other than at the developers, and then proceed to screw up the game as much the developers, and spend more time critizing how other people play than at how to improve the game. Good job, Gravity, and good job, community too.

 

^This, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the things i really don't understand at all. Why making things worse when we can try to help to make them better? geez.

Edited by Rodriggo, 24 December 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[nashR2]

I guess using master blue potions must be hard for people huh? Doesn't seem to be the case for all the competent wizards,Soul Makers, and Sorcs I know though. And if you're a priest and complaining about not having mana you need to reconsider everything you know about your class.

 

Try being a rogue for a day and see what using pots is really like.

 

As far as i know......master blues dont give enuff SP.

Somewhere like 1.2k i think..but nearly not enuff when lev 6 JT takes 188 SP/cast

Now i am an alchemist....never had a problem with spamming reds....but this is absurd!~

U take any timeframe in a dungeon....compare the SP usage among classes and the resultant DMG....then u would see the disparity.

 

 

 

And like i mentioned before....the 2 chaos raids i have been in so far post these patches, Rogues and SMs seem to b doing pretty bad.

But now i have to compete with priests!
 

[KurashiDragon]

Here's a complaint for a sorc that I didn't think about posting until just now. Why is it that the Sorcs mastery max level Jupitel Thunder is stronger than Varatyr Spear? Doesn't it seem a little stupid that what's supposed to be their most powerful spell is weaker than one of their other spells. Make Varatyr Spear Stronger.

[nashR2]

First off 20 master blues in a fight is nothing.

 

If your fights are taking such a long time that is obviously because your groups DPS isn't up to par.

 

SM does have quite a bit of costly skills but if you manage them wisely and use master blues there shouldn't be a reason to ever run out of mana. I have never seen a competent raider run out of SP in any raid. Then again like I said up top it matters who is in your group if they are not to par perhaps you should find new members for said group. This update allows people with subpar gear to enter dungeons they normally shouldn't have been geared up to enter if you're going into pug raids. Also they are handing out 10 explorer blue potions out of that 10 coin box so use them.

 

Also as stated in some post above using a potion can be done while you're casting skills. Tanks had to chug stacks of master reds before and rogues chugged even more than that.

 

BTW u talking bout someone elses DPS not being up2 par isnt fair!

 

How can u say that in the present situation when u dont even need a priest(thats by your admission! since blues r so easy..reds should b more..since it does full heals).

When a raid system doesnt require almost half the other classes of the game for it to be successful, than it previously did. How can u comment on such?

   This thread is about a group of classes that are broken! Not those who can do dungeons with a few stacks of reds and blues!

Edited by nashR2, 24 December 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[GuardianTK]

First off 20 master blues in a fight is nothing.

 

If your fights are taking such a long time that is obviously because your groups DPS isn't up to par.

 

SM does have quite a bit of costly skills but if you manage them wisely and use master blues there shouldn't be a reason to ever run out of mana. I have never seen a competent raider run out of SP in any raid. Then again like I said up top it matters who is in your group if they are not to par perhaps you should find new members for said group. This update allows people with subpar gear to enter dungeons they normally shouldn't have been geared up to enter if you're going into pug raids. Also they are handing out 10 explorer blue potions out of that 10 coin box so use them.

 

Also as stated in some post above using a potion can be done while you're casting skills. Tanks had to chug stacks of master reds before and rogues chugged even more than that.

 

You should understand that running out of 20 Master Blues within 2 minutes of a fight is problematic. This is coming from someone playing an SM equipped with all T2 Colo gears.

 

What exactly am I managing? I have to use all of my available skills to keep up with the raid's DPS. Do you think I should just stand there derping and using Cure every few seconds instead of using Sacrifice or Soul Extortion with every opportunity I have? AoD geared players sounds "not up to par" then. Got it. Probably since there was 1 Wizard, 2 Sorcerers, 1 Priest, and my SM during those raids. And yet we were all at least Colo T1 geared or above. The Priest and Wizard didn't have problems keeping up their SP. The problem came from the Sorcerers and my SM.

 

Explorer Blue Potions don't have much of sustainable place in the future after the event leaves. There's something absolutely wrong if you have to rely on % healing potions to keep up your SP to "keep up" with the raid. As pointed out, Master Blues are not enough to restore all of your lost SP after a series of skills used. This is especially true for your best burst skills. And yet our best burst skills are nowhere near the damage being caused by Physical Attack classes! Wait a second, why do they get to spend less SP with their best burst skills and yet deal almost twice the amount of damage Magic Classes currently have to offer?!

 

I know how to play my class. I'm sure others realize after going from Level 1 to Lv50 in a week or so that you can use Potions while taking action especially while running around. That is not the problem with SP management. We are literally chugging Blue Potions whenever their potion cooldowns are over with to keep up with our SP consumption. That is very wrong in many ways. You don't see physical attack classes having to use red potions if their healers are able to outheal all the damage they're taking, no? You're basically saying that the backyard classes who normally help physical attack classes save on potions to use potions, because you're telling the backyard classes to "manage" their skills better!

Edited by GuardianTK, 24 December 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[nashR2]

Here's a complaint for a sorc that I didn't think about posting until just now. Why is it that the Sorcs mastery max level Jupitel Thunder is stronger than Varatyr Spear? Doesn't it seem a little stupid that what's supposed to be their most powerful spell is weaker than one of their other spells. Make Varatyr Spear Stronger.

 

True!
Lol certain classes have DoTs/Tick doing more damage than our VS

 

 

Now how is that balanced when

 ~ VS has such an insane CD while those classes have DoTs that do more damage/tick(think 2 sec) than it has.

    I mean mine at 0/5 shows 20.29 secs CD!( i dont use it anymore) At max it barely does 1.5k dmg if it hits....and critting it is like winning a lottery!

[GuardianTK]

 

Soulmakers:

* Considering they don't have Ymir Child transformation, could they at least receive a full heal when they use awakening? (unless this full heal is just a bug on ymir transformation >_<)

 

 

Awakening does fully heal you now.

[DarkKurayami]

SP Consumption is a lot higher than it used to be, but it only becomes a huge factor in very long fights, which can mean quite a few things. Consuming a potion does not require you to take any extra time. You can while using skills, while moving, etc. All this means is that everyone should prepare and carry a few blue potions to raids.

 

Have you ever stopped to consider how many red potions are consumed by your Tanks/MDPS, in the past and now? SP is a trivial worry.
 

 

As well not many skills can be cast without having to stop, you move spell cancelled or you're actually stuck until its done. And its not a "few" you're suggesting, it's roughly a good number of stacks instead of one or two stacks of say 80 V blues...

 

And yes, Tanks/DPS do use Red pots, we know this however us Healers do help to avoid using as many for that. I usually (before this patch) manage to keep the whole raid/party up well for them to not need to use many or any reds at all.

Trivial? I'd love to see you fight some mobs and not have to pop a good five or six lvl V, Master or up blue pot after every other monster.

 

This is where I question do you even you a magic class?

[DatMONKey]

BTW u talking bout someone elses DPS not being up2 par isnt fair!

 

How can u say that in the present situation when u dont even need a priest(thats by your admission! since blues r so easy..reds should b more..since it odes full heals).

When a raid system doesnt require almost half the other classes of the game for it to be successfyl, and it previously did. How can u comment on such?

   This thread is about a group of classes that are broken! Not those who can do dungeons with a few stacks of reds and blues!

 

It's true. The AoV update allowed many players who have no business in most of the raids the ability to participate and either brute force it or get carried with almost no penalty. With the exception of AoD H(Earthworm/Lamort) and RM H (Abyss Shadow) It is virtually impossible to die on this patch. This is doubly true after last night's Maintenance increasing healing by various means tens to hundreds of times.

 

I've pugged some raids and have seen groups hit enrage on several bosses. If a fight lasts that long it's no wonder that your SP is running out.

 

Anyway for those of you that are having severe SP issues can you kindly post what skills you're spamming, it's level and how much SP it's consuming?

[DarkKurayami]

I have no Idea why priests are complaning when I can end a fight in chaos with full SP never using a blue pot and im constantly healing, you must be doing something wrong.

 

This is where I demand proof (preferred video) because I have yet to manage to do a simple DG or Raid without having either most or almost all my SP run out and popping pots with Holy Water.

[GuardianTK]

Simple, just stand around and not do anything when you're not needed in order to "manage" your SP better! I'd very much love to contribute towards DPS to take down a boss faster, but apparently I shouldn't use my best attack skills whenever they're available.

 

There's little point towards contributing extra DPS anyways, because magic damage pales in comparison to the damage physical attack classes are currently gushing out. Oh....so that's why DPS is so slow if you have a few more magic classes in your raid!

Edited by GuardianTK, 24 December 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[Kytosai]

This is where I demand proof (preferred video) because I have yet to manage to do a simple DG or Raid without having either most or almost all my SP run out and popping pots with Holy Water.

git gud

Get better potions.

Edited by Kytosai, 24 December 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[Rodriggo]

Awakening does fully heal you now.

 

Thanks for the info. Post edited :3

 

This means it is not a bug that Ymir transformation fully heals

Probably i just missed it but... this is not said in the description of the skill, is it? o.o (it should, if not)

[nashR2]

You should understand that running out of 20 Master Blues within 2 minutes of a fight is problematic. This is coming from someone playing an SM equipped with all T2 Colo gears.

 

What exactly am I managing? I have to use all of my available skills to keep up with the raid's DPS. Do you think I should just stand there derping and using Cure every few seconds instead of using Sacrifice or Soul Extortion with every opportunity I have? AoD geared players sounds "not up to par" then. Got it. Probably since there was 1 Wizard, 2 Sorcerers, 1 Priest, and my SM during those raids. And yet we were all at least Colo T1 geared or above. The Priest and Wizard didn't have problems keeping up their SP. The problem came from the Sorcerers and my SM.

 

Explorer Blue Potions don't have much of sustainable place in the future after the event leaves. There's something absolutely wrong if you have to rely on % healing potions to keep up your SP to "keep up" with the raid. As pointed out, Master Blues are not enough to restore all of your lost SP after a series of skills used. This is especially true for your best burst skills. And yet our best burst skills are nowhere near the damage being caused by Physical Attack classes! Wait a second, why do they get to spend less SP with their best burst skills and yet deal almost twice the amount of damage Magic Classes currently have to offer?!

 

I know how to play my class. I'm sure others realize after going from Level 1 to Lv50 in a week or so that you can use Potions while taking action especially while running around. That is not the problem with SP management. We are literally chugging Blue Potions whenever their potion cooldowns are over with to keep up with our SP consumption. That is very wrong in many ways. You don't see physical attack classes having to use red potions if their healers are able to outheal all the damage they're taking, no? You're basically saying that the backyard classes who normally help physical attack classes save on potions to use potions, because you're telling the backyard classes to "manage" their skills better!

Thats what i have been trying to tell!

While our skills are not acting the way it used to.....the SP consumption is the same as melee classes or even more.

So the result is SP consumption mayb the same....but the output of that process is not balanced! With skills missing! DoTs doing laughable damage even at stacks!

HMmmmmm lets say.....let all those single DoTs that give 1-3k dmg every 2 second do like 180 dmg per tick

Then id like to see all those wise and smug replies!

Edited by nashR2, 24 December 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[GuardianTK]

Thanks for the info. Post edited :3

 

This means it is not a bug that Ymir transformation fully heals

Probably i just missed it but... this is not said in the description of the skill, is it? o.o (it should, if not)

 

Currently, there is a bug where Ymir Child transformation sequences can be cancelled during the casting animation....and results in fully healed HP with no cooldown. I know Awake for Noels fully heals them, but I didn't test to see if it does the same bug as Ymir Child.

 

 

 

 

Thats what i have been trying to tell!

While our skills are not acting the way it used to.....the SP consumption si the same as melee classes or even more.

So the result is SP consumption mayb the same....but the output of that process is not balanced! With skills missing! DoTs doing laughable damage even at stacks!

HMmmmmm lets say.....let all those single DoTs that give 1-3k dmg every 2 second do like 180 dmg per tick 

Then id like to see all those wise and smug replies!

 

 

I'm sorry to everyone else who thinks I'm raging in my posts just now, but what currently bites my bagels right now is that a lot of people have tunnel vision. You need to break out of that tunnel vision to see things from different perspectives. Add variables to try to reproduce the scenario people are running into. Why are these problems arising? Why are people complaining? Have you tried every class possible to see how things work in the framework? How does each class contribute to the equation?

 

A lot of players aren't taking into account that magic classes aren't dealing as much damage as they should now compared to the improvements given to all the other physical attack classes since the AoV update. People aren't taking into account the need to take action to contribute to the raid's DPS. Why is there a need to contribute to the raid's DPS? It's because magic damage is low compared to the physical attack classes. Action must always be taken on the backyard character's position to offset that lack of DPS.

Edited by GuardianTK, 24 December 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[nashR2]

Simple, just stand around and not do anything when you're not needed in order to "manage" your SP better! I'd very much love to contribute towards DPS to take down a boss faster, but apparently I shouldn't use my best attack skills whenever they're available.

 

There's little point towards contributing extra DPS anyways, because magic damage pales in comparison to the damage physical attack classes are currently gushing out. Oh....so that's why DPS is so slow if you have a few more magic classes in your raid!

 

Hahahahaha Yay to that!