173 replies to this topic

[Bendersmom]

I agree with Phish.  To me it would be an all or nothing thing with buffs. Either clerics or classes have them or they don't to see any effect.  Even if they are reduced people will still have buffs vs those without buffs.  And the clerics that go all charm into CD die fast typically, those that have figured out a good def or hp build have a lot lower buffs but are able to still stay in and heal and support their team.  The trade off is that the team has lower stats than those buffed with a full charm cleric, but they still have buffs and get the benefit of being healed and puried during combat.  Plus a lot of the full charm clerics play the healing crystal game and don't really support the team anyway.  

 

Maybe put the combination buff pots in the Honor shop so people can get the benefits of buffs without taking up their whole inventory and more will use them if they end up on a team with no cleric.  

 

The healing idea is not bad.  I play cleric to help support the team, so I obviously don't want my heals taken away, and at times I don't feel I have enough heals (even though we do have a lot of them), but I understand how heals can make or break a CD.

[DigitalKitten]

No one really plays with max CHA gear, not that I'm aware of at least. The situation is;
Regroup, swap gear to CHA, buff everyone, change gear to your battle gear and then go into combat. It doesn't take that long to regroup for max CHA buffs, most people have cha gear and their "battle gear".

[Bendersmom]

The charm clerics who spam heal the crystal and party heals play in max charm gear a lot.  I get half of my healing points healing them.  But don't worry, they rarely buff.

Edited by Bendersmom, 07 January 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[ChampPower]

The charm clerics who spam heal the crystal and party heals play in max charm gear a lot.  I get half of my healing points healing them.  But don't worry, they rarely buff.

 

I agree some of the clerics do play like that, but you have to admit that they can be credited to keep people alive.But I doubt they play in full charm gear though because charm gear is really weak in defense. No amount of healing would be enough to keep them alive.

[Logi]

Reinforced orlean gear with 30 charm subs will do in a war, youll be an easy target once picked out but it gives alot more charm then walking in chiv or glor. They do keep people alive, but its mostly party heals not single target heals, once the party heals arent enough they dont target the person for a heavenly grace. I also have to heal other clerics alot, nothing wrong with that, but I prefer to keep my strong heals for fighters moving in for a kill, they win the war for me.

[bl0b]

Scouts
The bow scout has been given some underwhelming reviews. There were several points of skills that weren't able to be created at the time of the skill update, which are becoming a possibility now. Though a bit complicated on our end, the end result would be a weighted change in not only how you may play a bow scout, but restore some balance behind their intended utility and influential power to team warfare.
.

more skills, can't wait. Also, i read somewhere the skill, bow focus, will be stackable with cleric buffs, is this going to happen?

Edited by bl0b, 08 January 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[Leonis]

Then make the base numbers of the buffs higher and weaken their scaling so that the gap between buffer clerics and more int based clerics isn't high.  I have no idea what those numbers would be.

Pvm is tough enough as it is, I think it would be thrown out of balance if everyone was made weaker.

 

I'm not sure you understand how the system works to make a suggestion like that and think it will weaken buffs. It is actually, in fact, the value numbers that are influenced by charm that's making them so powerful. Not the the percentages set. And a shift to how much Charm impacts those values would not be as big an impact as you may think, but yes, it would make the buffs slightly less potent. What it doesn't do, is make everyone weaker by default. Only the buffs.
 

more skills, can't wait. Also, i read somewhere the skill, bow focus, will be stackable with cleric buffs, is this going to happen?

 

That, along with other class skills of similar nature will be treated like Berserk was. They will be reduced in power, but allowing them to be able to stack with other buffs will preserve their use and strength in the end.

 

As for when that'll be up to when we finish the work needed to make it happen. It takes some time and it's a bit of tricky work because it's a bit of a new mechanic. Originally it was planned for the first maintenance of the year, however due to unforeseen priorities pushed on us, we'll have to put it aside for now until we're able to properly finish it.

[Mystiqueforce]

 

As for when that'll be up to when we finish the work needed to make it happen. It takes some time and it's a bit of tricky work because it's a bit of a new mechanic. Originally it was planned for the first maintenance of the year, however due to unforeseen priorities pushed on us, we'll have to put it aside for now until we're able to properly finish it.

when that happens 24 H resets pls

[Leonis]

when that happens 24 H resets pls

 

Of course, it's only fair.
 

[Valakas]

Of course, it's only fair.
 

Let me know early so that I can push the sales of my skill reset books before it happens. 

[Leonis]

Let me know early so that I can push the sales of my skill reset books before it happens. 

 

You know, the 24 hours is actually not that long if you're actively playing. I wouldn't worry too much about it. It may slow your sales, but it is always something that will be wanted.

[DoubleRose]

Wow, you just jumped straight to the extremes didn't you?

 

Don't change buffs unless I nerf all the monsters?

 

Gutting charm? Where are you getting this from?? I even expressed the reduction rate, it is not gutting anything.

 

Don't jump to the extreme please.

 

Obviously this is a pvp thread, but it seems like this game is being balanced solely around pvp.  Fortunately this change affects pvp more than pvm because players don't have high charm for a large portion of the game, but we can't just ignore the negative externalities of decisions.  I suggested being willing to change pvm power if the nerfs to buffs make an impact and I don't understand why you are so against this.  When you nerf buffs in pvp, it's a nerf to pure charm builds and so it provides balance.  But nerfing the power of buffed characters and keep pvm static has a consequence, you are making it harder for us to farm and level.  It isn't a huge change, however, insisting that it won't make an impact at all because it isn't an extreme change is downright frustrating.  I didn't even say to nerf all the monsters, all I said was that if you want to change charm you should be willing to nerf the monsters to match the change if it's needed.  Making a decision that is focused solely on pvp balance without even willing to consider that it might have an impact on pvm is pure tunnel vision. 

[Leonis]

I never said I was against, I was just pointing out to the extreme you were jumping at the idea of reducing the influence of Charm from 3x that of the primary stat to 2.5x being referred to as "gutting."

[kumpiakot]

Bendersmom:

 

5. To help get Akram Arena going with a lot of people have a scheduled time for it to go, maybe 4 times a day.  And increase the numbers to 15/side with no maximum limit.  Make it so people can't sign up for any other pvp games except for AA for maybe 15 min before it goes.  AA is fun with a lot of people and I think if we get them going more people will like them.

 

***

 

i've been waiting for this for a long time to materialize if im not mistaken it was suggested by Phish/Bendersmom everyone agrees with this kind of set-up (prolly) it will boost players to utilize all their gears and strategy to stay on top of AA..and this map is pretty much fun though

 

Edited by kumpiakot, 09 January 2014 - 05:01 PM.

[DoubleRose]

I never said I was against, I was just pointing out to the extreme you were jumping at the idea of reducing the influence of Charm from 3x that of the primary stat to 2.5x being referred to as "gutting."

 

I agree 2.5x would be an adjustment in power, appropriate if the power of buffs on buffer clerics is too high for pvp.  "Gutting" would be more appropriate of a term if the power was being reduced to say... 1.5x

It seems that you haven't jumped to making hasty changes with the maintenance, so I'm sure the final number will be well tested and appropriate.  I just wanted to make sure that pvm is not being ignored so the impact on it won't go unnoticed.

[Leonis]

DoubleRose, yeah the most I said I would be willing to drop it by was 2x, but that's at worst. (1.5x omg what would be the point?? )

 

And no, the maintenance is not getting any balance updates because they aren't ready.

I've posted to the Senate and a few others for some direct feedback on what's being worked towards. Phish is included, so if he wants to make mention to his impression over what's being worked towards. The changes aren't finalized, but they're rough enough to share, I just don't want to share on the whole because there's still testing and discussion going on with them. It's not at that 'release' stage yet.

 

I'm always in constant consideration of PvM though. Don't worry.

[DrWrong]

Schedules that are not ran by the players? Power to the players - you must put in a bit more effort tho sometimes. I see a "join" shouted by other players we know theres some game goin. Likes this. No more schedule as it is potential to alienation, in a party then "its time for uw" oh ok bye. A game killer right there.

[Leonis]

DrWrong, we used to have a schedule of Union Wars.

 

• It used to run (if I recall right) 3 times a day.
  • Community complained it wasn't enough.
• We argued with the original developers to increase the frequency. They agreed to 4 times.
  • Community still complained.
• We went back to the developers and asked for more and argued them to make it more, as the community was wanting.

 

This went back and forth for a while before it reached being done once every 2 hours. At this point, the community then complained it was too frequent and that not enough people would sign up for each one.

 

Then eventually we were able to develop for ourselves, to which we came to the solution that if we couldn't figure a schedule out that would be acceptable to the community, we looked at other solutions. The problems were, players being unable to make the time intervals and the wait time between each interval would return to problem #1, and they would log off.

 

These core issues were solved through making the matches fluid and queue off when both sides had enough to launch the match. The Game Arena system was born.

 

Even before, in the Union War matches, there were issues of side balances, class balances, this is nothing new to us and we're doing all we can to help address those. But when it comes down to the basic point of matches queuing off, we've already gone through what a timed schedule does. We're not exactly jumping for the option from what history has taught us. But we will consider it, because the community has been vocal about it.

 

That's the best I can offer as for why and what we're doing in regards to the feedback on that subject.

[Bendersmom]

I agree with the complaints and problems from UW but the new system of GA makes it different in many ways.

 

1.There are more games - now, even if you miss AA you can still do DP or CD and you always have the options of Dungeons.  Previously all there was to do for max levels was UW.

 

2. Even now at some times and some days GA is constantly going, and at other times it is hard to get one started.  That won't change until we get a lot more players in the game. 

 

3. It is very hard to balance for all instances of Rose - PVP, TG wars, PVM, GA PVP, Dungeons.  The new game system does a pretty good job at balancing numbers per side for all GA.  No, it doesn't balance classes and other things people would like, but in AA if you have balanced numbers over say 15 ppl per side the game is usually fun.  

 

4. If people are sure they will have a good size amount of people going into AA (over 15 per side) and they know what time it is going to go, more will sign up for it I think.  And if they don't like it they can do dungeons for that 30 minutes.  If you make it so people can't sign up for CD or DP for maybe 15 min prior to and after game starts, then you will get enough people to start it.

 

5. A number of people in game atm have no idea what we are talking about when we say Union War.  A lot don't even know what AA is and have never been there.  But they are familiar with CD and learning to be familiar with DP (if they have a dragon).  I think once people start doing AA they will like it.  But they won't sign up for it if they can do CD because it is new.  Or the AA they have been to was lame because it didn't have the amount of people needed to do a good AA.  

 

6. People complain....a lot....about everything and even if Rose was the best game in the world with no glitches, bugs, etc....people would still complain.  But hopefully somewhere buried in those complaints, there are some people who actually give suggestions, feedback, etc. that helps.

[pdfisher]

6. People complain....a lot....about everything and even if Rose was the best game in the world with no glitches, bugs, etc....people would still complain.  But hopefully somewhere buried in those complaints, there are some people who actually give suggestions, feedback, etc. that helps.

 

There are, and you are one of them. I read your posts regularly, and I can clearly see your love for the game in them.

[Leonis]

Just posted something you all may be very interested in seeing, because it not only was influenced by this thread, but will change a bit of how things play out.

 

Have fun theorizing and remember to keep it kind!

[pdfisher]

I have read your post Leo, and although I don't quite understand all of it, it sounds quite promising!

[ChickenBucket]

hai mom.

[Bendersmom]

Chicken!!!!!   How are you?  Come back in game to say hi sometime.