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#26 iCare

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 02:47 PM

I am upset that the skill description of counter slash is "the damage is increased by the user's AGI" and that if you have more AGI and less STR then you do less damage. That doesn't make since. So I am hoping that the skill will get fixed and that instead of the skill being based on STR it is actually based on AGI.


Additional to this is when you focus on STR/AGI you will be a useless melee coz you dont have enough Hit to kill a monster...
On DPS purposes, i think gX AGI JOB BONUS needs to be increase..
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#27 Poko4Sho

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:57 AM

I personally think Agi is a horrible stat to invest in. But with the STR nerf, I don't really know what to invest in.
at 120 vit and gears a GX is packing 45k+ HP.
With agi you have...what? 20k? Lol...enjoy clashing spiral. Unless they un-nerf flee in woe, it's not going to be a good build.

This class is so bad, I'm really upset with renewal. None of the classes are on even grounds with each other, especially -_-ty GX :P
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#28 Myzery

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 06:37 PM

I hope you're not serious, you can reach max attack speed with so much agi. Crits when properly geared absolutely decimates people.
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#29 snowstorm

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 10:26 AM

I personally think Agi is a horrible stat to invest in. But with the STR nerf, I don't really know what to invest in.
at 120 vit and gears a GX is packing 45k+ HP.
With agi you have...what? 20k? Lol...enjoy clashing spiral. Unless they un-nerf flee in woe, it's not going to be a good build.

This class is so bad, I'm really upset with renewal. None of the classes are on even grounds with each other, especially -_-ty GX :unsure:


just find a new class, maybe a wanderer or something to buff people. you can asked Jaye for advice, you guys are about on par as far as skill level and logic goes. i wouldn't advise playing a class with any kind of skill involved or anything, it might be too difficult for you.
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#30 Charon

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 02:15 PM

On DPS purposes, i think gX AGI JOB BONUS needs to be increase..


Talking about job bonuses.. they are lame.
You can actually see that whoever was doing those, was lazier than a sloth:
Spoiler

All of the 3-2 ones are mixed copy pasted boni of 3-1 classes. Except for Royal Guard, because they had no 7th 3-1 to copy from http://forums.warppo...tyle_emoticons/default/icon_banghead.gif
And what the hell is with the varying sum? 2nd cls all had 30 total, 1st 18, trans 45.
Half of them are totally the opposite you would expect for their class.

Anyways, since this is bout GX lets compare its job bonus with a regular nontrans Assassin:
AS 6 10 2 4 8 0 - 30
GC 6 7 5 4 7 0 - 29

Beside the higher sum as 2nd class, its AGI got lowered by 3...
And it's not even the best example.
Shadow Chasers AGI and DEX go from the best as rogue, 7, to the lowest as shadow chaser, 3, genious http://forums.warppo...tyle_emoticons/default/icon_bow.gif ...

1st cls have 18 total
2nd cls have 30 total
trans have 45 total

3rd cls have 27-31 total
this should really say: 3rd cls have 42 total, which is the logical continuation, or even only 35, just give them more than freakin 2nd cls.

It may not be a big deal, but why not take them out of the game then if you don't give a damn about them.

I mean, COME ON
it's not like any player couldn't come up with way better ones for all 3rd classes in 10 minutes without being payed for it!

EDIT:
I took some time figuring what would suit 3rd cls, feeding my homun on the side and stuff.
I tried staying true to the original 2nd classes, only lowering anything in exceptional situations, while considering that some stats gained importance for them after becoming 3rd cls (like KN->RK INT 0->6 for now also being into magic etc)
Spoiler


This is kinda off-topic, but there is no subforum where this would fit any better, unless there was a GeneralStuffInRenewal one or so.

Edited by Charon, 14 November 2010 - 04:47 PM.

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#31 Nombus

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 10:29 PM

I've got 2 sinxs and I've decided to not play this class anymore in its current state. Why? Because:

1. While the new poisons are fairly good in woe when they work, they are fairly cheaply cured, expensive, and rarely work against a lvl 150 player.
2. The class has actually seen a reduction in damage potential upon the introduction of 3rd classes. Every other class has only seen an increase.
3. In a RO where you AoE or GTFO (mass mobbing is the only means to decent xp), this class has been handed the wrong end of the stick. Its AoEs are pathetic damage wise and overly costly.
4. The classes highest damage potential is generally seen in point and click action with high aspd and EDP. Everything else is simply good in avoiding the use of EDP and playing in a safer fashion considering shieldless melee is a dangerous, if not stupid, PvP tactic.
5. The use of stills like weapon blocking actually reduce damage when aspd is fast enough with EDP. As if ctrl attacking wasn't boring enough.
6. Poison cloud is unusable in WoE unless you want a chaser to give your entire guild that status in a better fashion than you could ever dish it out.
7. The implementation of damage skills that either overpower and negate the usefulness of previous skills or are redundant to the class. We had enough single attack skills that are ranged, or close ranged. The class didn't require another small AoE with poor damage.

Anything else has already been stated by others.
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#32 Corma

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 11:23 PM

Heimdallr, do you actually intend to take any of these suggestions into consideration? Or were you asking arbitrarily? The Best thing you can do for the newly nerfed GX class is to make Counter Slash or Rolling cutter into a Bigger AOE (7x7) at least so monsters dont always freaking escape , and give back EDP for skills. I mean, how exactly can we compare to a Rune Knight DRagonbreathing ENORMOUS Mobs for 30+k each? Thats just completely unfair, or Mechanics/Genetics cart cannoning for 13k or so. Just about every other class was giving some AMAZING Aoe Skill except Guillotine cross, our largest is Meteor assault which is slow and a measly 5x5.
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#33 Ghost007

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:08 AM

Meteor assault is 3x3 not 5x5.
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#34 MangoKing

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:01 AM

I've got 2 sinxs and I've decided to not play this class anymore in its current state. Why? Because:

1. While the new poisons are fairly good in woe when they work, they are fairly cheaply cured, expensive, and rarely work against a lvl 150 player.
2. The class has actually seen a reduction in damage potential upon the introduction of 3rd classes. Every other class has only seen an increase.
3. In a RO where you AoE or GTFO (mass mobbing is the only means to decent xp), this class has been handed the wrong end of the stick. Its AoEs are pathetic damage wise and overly costly.
4. The classes highest damage potential is generally seen in point and click action with high aspd and EDP. Everything else is simply good in avoiding the use of EDP and playing in a safer fashion considering shieldless melee is a dangerous, if not stupid, PvP tactic.
5. The use of stills like weapon blocking actually reduce damage when aspd is fast enough with EDP. As if ctrl attacking wasn't boring enough.
6. Poison cloud is unusable in WoE unless you want a chaser to give your entire guild that status in a better fashion than you could ever dish it out.
7. The implementation of damage skills that either overpower and negate the usefulness of previous skills or are redundant to the class. We had enough single attack skills that are ranged, or close ranged. The class didn't require another small AoE with poor damage.

Anything else has already been stated by others.


1. I was woeing on my level 150 sura and all it takes is about 1-2 secs max of a GX critting me to apply Oblivion Curse on me. And the GX was 20-30 levels lower than me. I had to spend 2-3 minutes looking for a AB to clearance me.(Partly because Sura's Gentle Touch Cure skill doesn't cure it and we had no GX in our guild).
6. SC cannot spread Oblivion Curse which IMO is the best poison to use. Use that instead.

Edited by MangoKing, 15 November 2010 - 09:49 AM.

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#35 Nombus

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:41 AM

1. In my experience using Oblivion Curse on Ygg, very few builds do not gain 100% resistance to it at lvl 150. Unless they've changed it I'm quite sure my experience was more thorough than your own. Further, its quite odd that you had an entire guild available but not one GX. Under normal circumstances this wouldn't happen.

2. Oblivion Curse is also the rarest of GX poisons, and, as far as I know, has the rarest item requirement of all skills in game. At a 0.31 drop, Izidor drops from Rybios which highest spawn is 15 on Underprison1.

Edited by Nombus, 15 November 2010 - 09:41 AM.

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#36 iCare

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:13 PM

Bring back our EDP fun... =(

Edited by iCare, 26 November 2010 - 09:13 PM.

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#37 Nitro

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 01:52 PM

What I am trying to build in RO?
I am trying to build a near max or max attack speed character with competitive, reliable DPS: max agility, high strength, and Luck at the moment. I am wary of Dex if it will do nothing for ASPD, as ASPD and flee are high priority to me.

Suggestions?

My suggestions, I hope, are realistic. I think the GX class needs to be buffed slightly, similar to what WoW did to its DPS with their recent patches. My thoughts on GX right now:

Cloaking Exceed - Please slow down the amount of SP this skill drains while it is being used. I can stay cloaked for probably upwards of an hour, but not so much with Cloaking Exceed because of its heavy SP drain.
Critical Strikes - Most opponents are carrying strong armors, shields and % reduction cards to the max. 1600 crits on an opponent with 50,000+ HP doesn't cut it. Can critical strikes be buffed so it can be considered competitive DPS? Maybe critical strikes have a chance to cause external bleeding?
Hallucination Walk - Reduce the the cool down on this skill to 2 minutes, or increase its duration. Can this skill also boost attack speed for its duration?
New Poisons - Is it possible to make these poisons into useful potions like Awakening? If we double click or hot key that poisons, it coats our weapon. The window used for doing it right now when in combat seems intrusive.
Rolling Counters (Cross Ripper Slasher perquisite) - it would be nice if the Rolling Cutter skill applied a buff to the GX that allowed us to keep our counters, even if we move, for just a few seconds. This would allow us to use the skill a bit more often and it would be much more fun.
Venom Splasher - Please reduce the cool down on this skill. It only works once every 12 seconds and has horrible DPS. This could be a very useful and fun skill if the cool down is toned down a bit.
Venom Splasher - BUG: This skill seems to hit its owner if they are near the target when the venom bomb goes off.
Weapon Blocking - When this activates, it stops me dead in my tracks and my character stands there doing nothing. Please make it so the damage is avoided on a successful Weapon Block, and my attacks are not interrupted. Does the character have to stop for Counter Slash and Weapon Crush to work right or something?

I guess what I'm wondering right now is: what is the role of the Guillotine Cross in Ragnarok Online? Is it a primary DPS class or something else?

Edited by Nitro, 17 January 2011 - 03:58 PM.

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#38 Scythe

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 11:37 PM

The more I play my GX, the more I'm asking why we do not have an really powered AOE skill, like many other classes do. The only other class in this situation I can think of is Archbishop but I guess they are more support oriented, after all.
There is no way we could solo during these triple spawn events (and everyone knows party is not rewarding enough) because we instantly get overrun by a high number of monsters we can't get rid off massively.

We have some AOE skills but their damage is either insignificant in regard of all the monsters you need to kill (ie: Rolling Cutter), or they are unstable/dangerous to use (ie: Counter Slash) - not mentioning that their area is quite small in comparison to other classes.

GX needs some love, like improved AOE damage and increased area :/
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#39 Scott

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 12:42 AM

Heimdallr, do you actually intend to take any of these suggestions into consideration? Or were you asking arbitrarily? The Best thing you can do for the newly nerfed GX class is to make Counter Slash or Rolling cutter into a Bigger AOE (7x7) at least so monsters dont always freaking escape , and give back EDP for skills. I mean, how exactly can we compare to a Rune Knight DRagonbreathing ENORMOUS Mobs for 30+k each? Thats just completely unfair, or Mechanics/Genetics cart cannoning for 13k or so. Just about every other class was giving some AMAZING Aoe Skill except Guillotine cross, our largest is Meteor assault which is slow and a measly 5x5.


SinX had a good enough run with EDP as it was. Increase the AoE, but don't enable EDP to be such a powerful skill in EVERY SENSE. It has to have SOME downside.
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#40 iCare

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 05:32 PM

I want my new clothing dye sprite while on Hallucination Walk skill..

Make it happen.........
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#41 JinXIII

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:28 PM

I've been with RO for a long time and my main and favorite character is Assassins, but I have to say I'm very disappointed in GX after renewal due to nerfing and unbalanced classes.
At first, I enjoyed many of the changes in RO Renewal and I found many new exciting things to do. I played my GX and planned out the new additional skills, but since I am low-level many stats changed, I could barely kill anything that gave decent experience. I had alot of trouble leveling at Rachel Sact. I thought to myself, "this is fine, I just need to level up more and get some of those new skills". As I leveled slowly, I saw many other classes doing massive damage and AOE skills that killed them in one hit, such as Rune Knights and even Wanderers (from Gypsy). I had trouble just hitting them and tanking two of them. I looked at my skills and I saw I didn't have any big AOE skills, I thought "Oh well, thats ok, at least I can EDP, GXs are still powerful".
But what? No.. EDP is nerfed, and its horrible (as many other people have also commented). This was the biggest disappointment.
I played GX because I liked being in the front lines, someone who can compete with say other front line fighters like Rune Knights. But what now? even a Wanderer can do higher damage and 1-hit kill monsters in Rachel Sact. I can barely even tank two, I hits miss, and the damage is not even comparable.
My build is a dagger sin type, currently with over 70 dex and all I see is my Cross Impact doing misses all over the place, so embarrassing. If I do hit, I'm just under 10k damage. I can't even look forward to any of my other skills anymore. Rolling Cutter is only 3x3, doing a damage range around 1500, but you see a Rune Knight, Sura or something that kills a mob with a cast of an AOE skill. Its just embarassing now to play GX.
Possibly EDP was overpowered previously, but if it was left the way it is for Renewal it would be fair and could compete with other front melee characters. Sins had crits, but apparently that got nerfed. Sins were encouraged to get agi, such as for aspd and for fleeing, but knights get berserk pots and two-handed quicken, and with flee/hit adjustments in Renewal my sin can barely tank 2-3 chars. I can't even last long enough to kill 1 bio2 monster (without buffs or party). Rolling Cutter needs to spin 10 times to execute maximum damage with Cross Ripper Slasher but the counter doesn't even last long.. Rolling Cutter is a 3x3, useless without hallucination walk in big mobs.
GX needs to be rebalanced properly. I think restoring EDP is fair as GX are initially short-ranged attackers. Allowing a GX get near you highly dangerous (which is why I prefer assassins, use some playing skill/strategy). GX do not have many AOE skills or ones that can compete with say Sura, Rune Knight, Warlock, so on. Allowing GX to be deadly when close-combat is fair. But since GX does have some somewhat ranged attacks, then weaken EDP with combinations of ranged attacks. The closer a GX is (with EDP) then the more damage or effective EDP is. In otherwords, back when EDP released, EDP + Sonic Blow was deadly so reduced EDP + Sonic Blow total damage. Same idea with ranged attacks seems fair.
Also, the other thing that doesn't seem fair for all classes is the low job bonuses. Advanced 2nd classes had more job bonuses and better allocation than 3rd job classes do.

its very unbalanced for GX now and very disappointing. Its very very embarassing to play GX now, and as I've looked at other forums and other people's comments, it appears that alot of people are walking away from GX classes.
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#42 JinXIII

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:32 PM

If EDP is restored to how it was originally, possibly add something like add a cool-down time before using EDP again. EDP is initially for a short period of time anyways so its a temporary big boost then results in a delay, thats fair.
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#43 Akin

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 10:23 PM

I just got arouind to playing GX and so far I only have 3 requests currently:

1. Please lower the Weapon Blocking delay based on the character's agi/dex, similar to Monk's Trifecta Blow. As it is, it's a bit too long if you don't use Counter Slash or Weapon Crush.

2. Please consider increasing the range of Counter Slash to 5x5, a lot of monsters seem to have an attack range that is right outside the range of the skill. This really kills my DPS and SP when you consider the long delay of Weapon Blocking, and the low range of Counter Slash.

3. Please consider adding BaseLvl/100 to the damage mods of GX skills.
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#44 Kokotewa

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 05:13 AM

As far as GX burst goes, I find myself just 'dying' to striking+EDP CI spam on an arch bishop. [no megs used, +9 infil (skel worker)]
40% demi reduction
ghost element

First CI takes out SW+a few ke points
Second CI takes out about 18~20k hp
I re-safetywall, which the third CI takes away
the 4th chained CI kills me

I imagine its the same for many other classes, but closer to "I just died" "to wut?" "i dunno". Due to the new venom impress skill, players literally have to choose between dragon breath or CI to what they want to die to. I am going to be that arrogant prick who suggests armor toggling, but at the speed GXes move while invisible I'd imagine it would be hard to see coming. They are also not blocked by pneuma as is every other damaging skill.

The burst is really quite stupid, and save lexing+having someone on your side kill them I don't see a viable counter for many classes. The burst is just that stupid. You will die, there is nothing you can do to out pot it. Because of this, I don't feel GXs are 'underpowered' in anyway.
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#45 Akin

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:22 AM

Funny thing is, 4 CIs is quite a bit considering how long it would take other classes to kill you.

I wouldn't say GX is underpowered either, just that most other melee classes are overpowered.
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#46 Kokotewa

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 01:08 PM

Funny thing is, 4 CIs is quite a bit considering how long it would take other classes to kill you.

I wouldn't say GX is underpowered either, just that most other melee classes are overpowered.

Where 4 CIs take place in about 1~1.5 seconds. They have the highest maintained burst of the new classes, I never really noticed. It is quite cool/amazing! I was quite impressed and stumped for awhile to be honest. ^^;
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#47 Frappuccino

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 01:56 PM

if you have a thanatos infil like someone i know, gx is actually very decent.
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#48 shikyi

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 06:21 PM

The Guillotine Cross class has been the biggest disappointment I've had since we were forced to pay for beta years ago. The AOE skill is an underpowered limited range joke. The EDP nerf is a joke. Criticals affected by DEF is a joke. Almost any other properly geared up class has a much better chance of killing you before you kill them in PVP, because it seems every other class has 1 or more one hit KO uberskills and our damage is reduced to nil with gear. To even reach the DPS to tickle most elite WOE build classes now, we have to have gear that costs us upwards of 1 billion zeny, super speed potions, genetic food, battle chant, piercing, etc etc and so on and so forth. At least, that is my experience with a critical build. I reset my skills/stats after seeing how terribly crappy my Cross Impact damage was with a multitude of different 4x+3x carded weapon sets.

I accepted the 14 day free come back trial to level my Sinx from 86-99 in 4-5 days. So far I see nothing that makes me want to stay with RO again.

Edited by shikyi, 24 December 2010 - 06:30 PM.

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#49 iCare

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 08:15 PM

Hallucination walk is crap... Cant even use it well.. cool down is stupid.
Cloaking exceed, takes a lot of SP. Cant cloak and uncloak in short time.
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#50 MrMajestic

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 08:33 PM

Hallucination walk is crap... Cant even use it well.. cool down is stupid.
Cloaking exceed, takes a lot of SP. Cant cloak and uncloak in short time.

you know what i've been complaining about mechanics and how they sucks, have you ever heard this one, "stop playing GX and make RK RG Genetic." not that I'm saying to do so. but all i'm pointing out is that it's almost as if who ever was in charge of the renewal game mechanics deliberately tried to make some characters better than others. I have a gut feeling some behind the scenes purposely wanted to make this game all about these 4 character classes and leave the rest in the dust. if RK's and RG's get gloomy shyness free of cost with no items to use this triple damage skill, then why take away EDP from SiNX and GX? and Mechanics have a retarded mount, why don't they get affected by this gloomy shyness? this game was good pre renewal. i hope they fix every thing before I end up perma quiting. cus i'm not gonna stick around on this game just to jump on the royal guard, rune knight band, genetic band wagon with every other tom-_- and harry. Some people liked being front line offense and dpsers. dont tell GX once sinx pre renewal that they are no longer useful for this and dont tell mechanic once master smith pre renewal that we're no longer able to even tickle some one in WoE.
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