13 replies to this topic

[yongann]

pierce build or bowling bash build?
2hd sword or spear ...
well i know if i go pierce build i will be using a spear and i will be able to do some bowling bash also ...
about 2hd sword bowling bash i have parry ...
well, im in dilemma ...
someone please ease me ...
more towards mvp here ...
stat and skill guild is needed ...
about equipment too ....
thanks in a million 
more towards MVP or PVM ... no interested in WOE might do some minor pvp ...

[DrAzzy]

Spear, pierce+bb skills, str/vit/dex build with a little int for sp.

[yongann]

what about skill built ...

[yongann]

bumps

[Jaffer]

Spear is superior in PvM for Pierce.

 

What you want as a Knight:

Pierce 10

Bowling Bash 10

Cavalier Mastery 5

 

That covers most prereqs too

 

As LK, add:

Aura Blade 5

Spear Dynamo 5

Frenzy (if you want)

 

In full your skills will look like:

1-Handed Mast 1

2-Handed Mast 5 or 10

Endure 3

Magnum Break 5

Bash 10

Provoke 5~10

Inc HP Recov 10

 

Two-Hand Quicken 10

Counter 5

Bowling Bash 10

Spear Mastery 5

Aura Blade 5

Spear Dynamo 5

Peco Riding

Cavalier Mastery 5

Pierce 10

Spear Boomerang 5

 

Beyond that it's up to you.  You can pick up Parrying, Frenzy, Tension Relax, Head Crush, Spear Mastery 10, whatever you want.  Beyond Pierce and BB and the LK buffs, it doesn't matter much.

 

Stats:

85 or 95 base STR

100 total VIT

68 base DEX

25 base AGI

 

If you go 95 base STR you won't be able to get all of those stats, just FYI.

 

If you want to focus on PvM only (that is a WoE build):

95 base STR

80-100 VIT

68 base DEX

rest AGI/INT

 

If you want to WoE, you must have 100 VIT total, with foods is fine.

[yongann]

thank you so much...
what is the int amount you think is the best for PvM ...

[Jaffer]

Probably 18~24.

[Gn1ydnu]

For SP issues well mobbing BB, hunt an earth deleter card. Now is a great time to get one since there's the spotlight there. It will save you tons of zeny for sp.

 

Lose parry. It is horrible. It has a 0.3 second delay, whenever its triggered, where you can't move/use skills. Say your fighting a MVP + 5 of its mobs and Parry has 50% chance, you will become "locked" and can't even cast skills.

 

For pierce leveling (Thors, 1hko HO's ect), yes spear is ftw.

 

For BB you can get away with a Brocca for most situations, with mediocre damage. I am a HUGE believer that spears suck for BB, since I have not found 1 situation where a spear is better then a twinblade (1 hand sword) for BB'ing.... Ever. If you are uninterested or can't afford 200m+ items or easily distracted then stop reading now

 

Example of damage difference between a 3 carded Twinblade vs a Brocca. 110 str, 75 dex, 1 base agi, as stats, both items endowed. The Brocca will do ~2k per hit of BB in Lunia GD (~4k total per BB). A Twinblade (when proc'd, which is EASY to get with a mob) will do ~4k per hit of BB (~8-9k total  per BB). The damage difference, alone, between the two is crazy.

 

Next is the BB cast/delay, which has a direct correlation with the damage per second of Bowling Bash. 

 

Bowling bash has a cast time of 0.7 seconds. Sticking with our example of 75 dex, the "cast time" of BB would be reduced to 0.35 seconds. Ignoring the delay of BB, this would an LK with 75 dex could cast BB TWICE as often as a 1 dex LK. Some players ignore how important dex is for a LK thats BB based, its not just about hit. (woe is a tad bit different)

 

Second part of BB, also the most important, is the after cast delay aka the animation delay. It is based upon your ASPD, the more the better. For the sake of typing, I will refer to all these interchangeable terms as "delay". Back to our example of a 1 agi LK. The LK's aspd with 1 agi and a beserk potion (which we always use /no1) is 155 ASPD. This means you do 1 attack every 0.88 seconds. This also means your delay on BB is 0.9 (rounding) seconds. So after you cast BB you will have to wait 0.9 seconds before being able to cast BB again. THIS CAN BE BYPASSED BY MOVING AFTER YOU CAST BB. Moving during the delay, to ignore the delay, is called "dancing". You can dance on most characters. So once we add up some numbers from our example we get something like this.

 

110 str, 75 dex, 1 agi LK using a spear and zerk potion will cast BB in 0.35 seconds and be on delay for 0.88 seconds = Total time from "BB click" to next "BB click" would be 1.23 seconds.

 

So the second reason why I stand by my point of 1 hand swords (twinblades specifically) to be better then spears in EVERY situation for BB is.... You have a naturally higher ASPD with them. Same setup as above and the delay is 0.73. Total takes 1.08 seconds. You might be saying OMFG ITS ONLY 0.15 SECONDS DIFFERENCE, THIS GUY.... Let me explain. A LK with a soul link will enable 1 hand quicken, which will give you a lot of free ASPD. It is very easy to keep a linker slave nearby, you can even keep them in extremely dangerous places! (dead of course until you need them, ygg leaf).

 

110 str, 75 dex, 1 agi LK using a sword, 1 hand quicken and zerk potions will cast BB in 0.35 seconds and be on delay for 0.46 seconds = Total time for "BB click" to next "BB click" would be 0.81 seconds.

 

Comparing 0.81 seconds to the 1.23 seconds, now that is a noticeable difference. In the course of 5 seconds a LK could BB 4 times with a spear OR BB 6 times with a sword (1hq). That would be 50% more DPS over the course of 5 seconds (honestly a lot more cuz twinblades out damage any spear in any situation).

 

One might say "BUT GNIYDNU, WHAT IF I USED A THORNY SHIELD TO GET MORE ASPD ON MY SPEAR BB LK?" Lets crunch the numbers and compare a thorny from spear vs sword.

 

110 str, 75 dex, 3 agi (bison) LK using a spear, thorny combo, and zerk will cast BB in 0.35 seconds and be on delay for 0.76 seconds = Total time for "BB click" to next "BB click" would be 1.11 seconds (still worse then 1 hand sword w/ 1hq and no thorny)

 

VS

 

110 str, 75 dex, 3 agi (bison) LK using a sword, thorny combo, 1 hand quicken, and zerk will cast BB in 0.35 seconds and be on delay for 0.36 seconds = Total time for "BB click" to next "BB click" would be 0.71 seconds. If you remember our example earlier of the LK with spear doing only 4 BB per 5 seconds, this one could do 7 BB per 5 seconds (almost DOUBLE the BB's).

 

Do the math, its simple stuff assuming you can afford it. Sword>Spear for BB.

Edited by Gn1ydnu, 30 January 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[yongann]

so means ...
i can ho pierce build while having BB build because pierce build can up BB too ...
its just the weapon choice ...
which means i can have pierce + BB and a spear weapon + a two hd or one hd sword to go on my life in ragnarok classic ... LOL

[yongann]

should i use mantis card + ring?

[Jaffer]

Mantis Rings are not bad.  Ideally you would use a Medal of Honor (two of them), but Mantis Rings work.

[Gn1ydnu]

so means ...
i can ho pierce build while having BB build because pierce build can up BB too ...
its just the weapon choice ...
which means i can have pierce + BB and a spear weapon + a two hd or one hd sword to go on my life in ragnarok classic ... LOL

 

Ya. You can have BB build and still pierce properly. You can 1 hit kill HO's easily with pierce or BB. The actual wep that you use just depends on how anal you are with perfection and your budget. I know a lot of LK's who BB with spears, it is just not the "best". I am a perfectionist, so I am very anal about that stuff

[MattyL904]

So you compared BB dmg with a twin blade to BB dmg with a brocca... but did you compare it with a +10 carded pike?  Who uses a brocca anyways?

[Gn1ydnu]

I did not. Primary objective was to show the player about BB in PVM (cast time/after cast delay). It just works out that most of the time a twin > pike. A pike in a very specific situation might do slightly more damage per BB, but the fact that spamming BB w/ a sword (and buffs) makes for faster recast of BB and higher DPS. 

 

I don't use a brocca, I gave mine to a new knight in south pront. 

Edited by Gn1ydnu, 18 February 2014 - 08:10 PM.