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#1 Njoror

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:09 PM

Hello, everyone.

 

We want to gather feedback on each class to better balancing.

 

This thread will be about the Assassin class. If you've played Assassin and have some constructive feedback to give to help improve the class, use this thread as that platform.

 

To make things easier to read, please use the following form:

 

Character:

Feedback Type(Example: Skill/Stats/Suggestion)

Skill (If Applicable):

Feedback:

 

We appreciate all feedback given, and will use it when discussing changes to the studio.

Also, if you think another category in the form is required, let me know and I'll change it up!


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#2 SergeD

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:51 PM

Character: Serch

Feedback TypeSkill/Suggestion/DamageEquation

Skill (If Applicable): Shadow Form

Feedback: 

Well i'll try to be precise, first of all, i think assassins and any AGI classes, should be oriented to "crit damage" and "dodge", i mean like having a 30% more dodge than other classes but having with that a low defense and a low reduction damage, remember that we are dps, not tanks, but our defense is dodging every attack we can, also the damage equation should be change to an attack power oriented equation, because skills like Shadow Form or are useless with the actual equation, i think that equation must consider stats like STR and damage (normal damage and skill damage) should be represented in attack power. It will be nice that we can customize our character with all stats, and weapons represent only min~max weapons damage and things hit,crit,parry,dodge,haste and some few normal stats, but i guess is too much to ask for that, but a little change on equation will have great results on all players. I think we players need a balanced game, where every class have advantage and disadvantage, with balance. Im sorry about my english, because i know i made terrible mistakes up there, but i hope this can help or at least give some ideas and again im sorry about my english.


Edited by SergeD, 21 February 2014 - 06:51 PM.

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#3 8048131114033323787

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:12 PM

Character: Schnizel

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill (If Applicable):Shadow Fang

Feedback:  Make the AOE spell look good .. the AOE graphic just sucks and it looks very lame ! I mean black stripes coming out from my leg ? wtf is that ? 3-4 come out but i hit about 10 .. HOW ?? pls make it look good !

 


Edited by 8048131114033323787, 21 February 2014 - 07:13 PM.

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#4 5100130512201242360

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:37 PM

Njoror its Intra! lol you ready for this! i know you love me!

 

Character:Intramuros

Feedback TypeSkills

Skill (If Applicable):Shadow Assault, Shadow Strike, Shadow Explosion, Movement Speed, Crit, MORE Testers for Characters Skills prior to patch launch

Feedback:

                    Shadow Assault : Make it Hit more as one of the Highest AGI sin/Char in the server atm i cant believe how much im missing! and it not only skill lock bugs us. but it makes the target slide away if hit. 

                    Shadow Strike: U guys Nerfed this for some reason i dunno why! its already and stil broken, not hitting or if it does hit it hits for mostly one damage at a time not twice like before.

                    Shadow Explosion: same thing missing or if it does hit Only hit once instead of twice. 

                    Movement Speed: we are assassins. we are supposed to move fast. but somehow some chars moves away faster than us cause of speed skills.

                    Crit: What happened to our crit rate? i see some people already have higher crit than us. why? it wasnt like this pre AOV

                    Tester: you guys should really invest in some Tester of Certain class. because from what i can tell only you or zanbee test characters skill when you guys are bout to change something. i dont mind doing it to volunteer to do                           Testings for Sins. before you guys release a skill change or skill effect change to our characters to find out if its buggy or not.

                     


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#5 Tiduspeco

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 08:42 PM

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Skills

Skill (If Applicable): Shadow Armor/Grimtooth

Feedback:

 

Grimtooth: Remove healing effect. Warrior's Tension Relax heals 90% HP total with a 120 second CD. In that time, Grimtooth (which heals 18% HP with a 10 second CD) could heal 216%. That's more than double the healing power that Warriors have.

Shadow Armor: Remove invulnerability and lower defense increase from 50% to 20-25%. There's no need for a DPS class to have a "turtle mode" skill.


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#6 rzevidz007

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:46 AM

 
 

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback TypeSkills

Skill (If Applicable): Shadow Armor/Grimtooth

Feedback:

 

Grimtooth: Remove healing effect. Warrior's Tension Relax heals 90% HP total with a 120 second CD. In that time, Grimtooth (which heals 18% HP with a 10 second CD) could heal 216%. That's more than double the healing power that Warriors have.

Shadow Armor: Remove invulnerability and lower defense increase from 50% to 20-25%. There's no need for a DPS class to have a "turtle mode" skill.

 

I'd like this, in exchange of higher DPS potential would be right in my opinion.

 

The Assassin concept in RO2 is so much different that it is currently in RO1. Sure there are some adaption from RO1's skills in here, but they are so much different when compared in-game.

 

For that, I would like to address some suggestions to increase the class potential as a DPS class to be able to match other top tier DPS class.

 

Character: (is just playing my friend's ID currently)

Feedback Type: Concept, Skills and Stats

Skill (If Applicable): Probably all of them?

Feedback: 

 

So first, I would like to talk about the concept of the Assasin class itself. Assassin is supposed to be the master of poison, but where is it exactly? So with having Poisoning Weapon, we are the master of poisons? No way man. As compared to RO1, the Assassin here is very lacking of poison skills tbh.

 

Second, Assassin is also supposed to be a DPS class, yet they are very lacking when compared to other DPS class such as Rangers, Rogue, and now tanks can act as an imba DPS class. 

 

 

For that, the changes I have in mind are listed below:

 

 

 

Double Attack: While I'm still fine with level 5 Double Attack, it is not fair when compared to Ranger's Charged Shot and Double Strafe. Both of them are Ranger's most spammable skill and has extra levels? Srsly? Of course will increase their DPS by huge margin. Adding 5 more level to Double Attack will do, but still I don't think it is a good idea. What I have in mind is keep the level 5 Double Attack but add 'Bleeding' (DoT) effect that has the same effect as other DoT's in general, but you will need to stack it to x (maybe 5?) times to increase the DoT effect per Bleeding point. Or, just give the Bleeding debuff with a chance to activate to increase Assassin's damage for a short while to the affected target. The debuff will increase in effect as it is stacked to x times.

 

Deadly Blow: I think it's fine the way it is now imho.

 

Combo Training: Increase the chance of this skill would suffice because it is hardly effective to increase our DPS.

 

Mark of Genocide: With the nerf of Critical Rate, I think it would be wise to also increase the effect of this skill.

 

Cross Impact: This horrid, yet crap skill needs to be changed. CHANGED. Change it so it increases 2 CP (& 2 Bleeding points?) everytime CI performed. It is way fked when compared to RO1's Cross Impact.

 

Hiding: This skill is already good for now, but I'm still missing the concept of it. In RO1, you can hide and rehide freely in battle mode or not, but in RO2, basically you can only use it once. I'd say change the CD of Hiding to maybe 10 or 15 seconds(?) but allows you to rehide. But I'm writing this down for lolz because it'll basically destroys Rogue's Smoke Bomb lol.

 

Dark Illusion: The skill's fine the way it is now yea. A very good kill stealing skill lol

 

Poisoning Weapon: This skill is actually fine. What Thieves, especially Assassins need in general is more DoT skills to match the concept of the class description. Although, increasing the % damage would be good to match Ranger's Poisoning Arrow. I mean, we are supposed to be master of poisons, right?

 

Now, let's head to Assassin skill tree:

 

Shadow Fiend: This skill is very inferior to Rogue's Combo Mastery for several reasons. First, the skill only activates on skills that generates CP, while Rogue's Combo Mastery can activate on every skill performed. EVERY SKILL. The 3% percentage difference won't help either. Second, Double Attack and Shadow Fiend combined is only 250%+220% = 470% damage done, while Combo Mastery can be used not only for Deadly Blow but also other skills like their ultimate skill, Moonlight Drive which deals 1k+% damage, GP, etc. 

 

I'd say change this skill to activate every two concecutive Double Attack (yes Double Attack, so other skill such as Shadow Strike won't benefit from this skill) to actually increase Assassin's DPS or just increase the % damage of this skill or change this skill to an active skill that deals another DoT damage.

 

Shadow Claw: The skill's fine pre AoV, but since Critical Rate has been nerfed post AoV, a slight increase of the skill's effect would suffice. Maybe ~10% to match the current stats system of the game.

 

Hiding Exceed: If hiding can be recasted as I've suggested above, this skill will be useful and people will start investing points in this. Just my 2 centz tho.

 

Gimtooth: The skill's too imba. Reduce the effect of this skill to maybe 5~8% per hit at MAX level and increase the CD of the skill.

 

Shadow Armor: I'd say rework the skill to a brand new one. We are assassins not tankers. We are supposed to dodge things, not let them hit you in da face. Change it so it increases dodge rate for 50%. Don't forget to change the name of this skill to something related like Shadow Fleet or something lol.

 

Shadow Form: The skill is really fine imo, but maybe an increase of 10% for both Attack Power and Movement Speed (a total of 40% bonus Attack Speed and Movement speed) is probably needed to match Rogue's Unstable Doping effect (+20% Attack Power / +20% Critical Rate is really imba >.<) and Ranger's Windwalk.

 

Shadow Strike: Love the skill very much as it will reduce as you level it til level 10 (10s CD). If changes are needed, I'd say increase the skill's damage or just fasten the animation of this skill and also adds 3 Bleeding stacks instantly if the above suggestion is to be implemented ( I wish :D)

 

Shadow Explosion: This skill has an inferior damage modifier when compared to other class (Just a measly 1k+% damage when compared to other classes' with 1.3k ~ 1.6k % damage on their hard hittin' burst skill), but it is fine as Assassin is hugely benefited through Shadow Strike's Mark of Shadow that gives x2 damage on this skill. But again if changes are needed, then increase the skill damage or just make the skill to deal 1 hit not 2.

 

Shadow Assault: The skill graphical effect is very misleading. It looks very AoEish yet it only affect 1 target. Make it to AoE but by targeting an enemy first (not like Warrior's).

 

 

 


Edited by rzevidz007, 22 February 2014 - 09:12 PM.

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#7 9632130515120055620

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:42 PM

As someone who has mained Assassin pre-AoV and in the current status, these are the things I'd like to see changed.

 

Character name: Shadowslash

Feedback type: Skills

Skills: A lot of 'em

Feedback:

 

Melee DPS are meant to have very high damage output (this goes for Rogue too) and at current it feels like equally-equipped classes outdo it rather easily (Ranger, Sorcerer). A lot of suggestions are covered very well in the post above me, but some of my personal gripes (aside from Shadow Form being a bit buggy) are:

 

Double Attack: I wouldn't mind seeing this get a damage increase, perhaps to a max of 300-350%. As rze pointed out, the Ranger buff made their DPS skyrocket and I'm sure this would be a valid change on a melee class which is limited to close-range damage and has to put themselves in more risk to apply it.

 

Combo Training: Would like to see an increase to 10% per stage. 

 

Cross Impact: Garbage. Really has needed a re-work for a while now, although i don't have any ideas what you could do with it at the moment.

 

Poisoning Weapon: This used to be really awesome pre-AoV and was a massive boost to Assassin's DPS that let it rival other DPS classes, now it's really terrible. I used to hit envenoms in the 500s with AoD gear, after AoV with much higher stats and equipment it's rare I see over 400. I think this needs to be brung back to its former glory through a damage buff / making the poison tick every 1s instead of 2s.

 

Mark of Genocide: One of the only party buffs in the game (other being Earth Shield) where it's completely acceptable to skip it. The buff is very mediocre given the overall nerf to crit in AoV, it would be nice to see it rise to 1% per stage, capping at 5%.

 

Grimtooth: Assassin is a strong PvP class but is quite bad when it comes to mobbing groups in PvE unless you invest a lot into Shadow Fang. This skill barely makes an impact against single targets in PvP and I don't see much of an issue with it at current until there are relevant raiding opportunities that prove it's too strong. Assassin is one of the worst PvE mobbers, I see no harm in giving them an option to make it easier.

 

Shadow Fang: Would like to see this have the ability to inflict envenom.

 

Pretty much fine with strike, explosion and assault as long as their bugs are fixed.


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#8 raela

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 03:26 AM

Character: raela

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Grimtooth

Feedback:

I'm on team "Grimtooth is way too overpowered." Even at level 1, the healing lets you mob insane numbers without breaking a sweat. My sin is only ML14, wearing Menace gears, and yet I could tank all the bosses in Osiris.. all due to Grimtooth level 5 (never used potions or Shadow Armor). I do like the idea of the heal.. maybe as a percentage of damage done instead of flat percentage? But then again, healing was always Rogue's thing, and sins could just turtle things out.


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#9 carlos1191

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 10:56 AM

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Skills

Skill (If Applicable): Shadow Armor/Grimtooth

Feedback:

 

Grimtooth: Remove healing effect. Warrior's Tension Relax heals 90% HP total with a 120 second CD. In that time, Grimtooth (which heals 18% HP with a 10 second CD) could heal 216%. That's more than double the healing power that Warriors have.

Shadow Armor: Remove invulnerability and lower defense increase from 50% to 20-25%. There's no need for a DPS class to have a "turtle mode" skill.

 

No offense, but your argument is invalid.
The assassin need the heal skill.. always the assassins die first (raid, party or whatever).. now is fine.. the heal was what we needed. The new heal effect does not have to be removed.. Furthermore, the Assassin is lurer in AoV. He receives the first damage, we need a good heal to stay alive in the fight with mobs and grimtooth can do that.

If you find that the effect Tension Relax is low , go to feedback from Warrior and post it there as a suggestion.

 

Shadow armor?? invalid too.

Shadow armor is a skill that can save the life of the Assassin, in pvp or pve.

The assassin has the defense very low.. and shadow armor is what we need to receive more hits without die.. always had that 50% extra defense, and the new effect is useful for assassin pvp player.

 

PS:im sorry my english.. im latin (from Chile), and my native language is spanish.

regards!


Edited by carlos1191, 24 February 2014 - 11:21 AM.

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#10 8048131114033323787

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:34 PM

 

Njoror its Intra! lol you ready for this! i know you love me!

 

Character:Intramuros

Feedback TypeSkills

Skill (If Applicable):Shadow Assault, Shadow Strike, Shadow Explosion, Movement Speed, Crit, MORE Testers for Characters Skills prior to patch launch

Feedback:

                    Shadow Assault : Make it Hit more as one of the Highest AGI sin/Char in the server atm i cant believe how much im missing! and it not only skill lock bugs us. but it makes the target slide away if hit. 

                    Shadow Strike: U guys Nerfed this for some reason i dunno why! its already and stil broken, not hitting or if it does hit it hits for mostly one damage at a time not twice like before.

                    Shadow Explosion: same thing missing or if it does hit Only hit once instead of twice. 

                    Movement Speed: we are assassins. we are supposed to move fast. but somehow some chars moves away faster than us cause of speed skills.

                    Crit: What happened to our crit rate? i see some people already have higher crit than us. why? it wasnt like this pre AOV

                    Tester: you guys should really invest in some Tester of Certain class. because from what i can tell only you or zanbee test characters skill when you guys are bout to change something. i dont mind doing it to volunteer to do                           Testings for Sins. before you guys release a skill change or skill effect change to our characters to find out if its buggy or not.

 

 


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#11 8048131114033323787

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:36 PM

exactly .. how can ppl who have wind 15 % move faster than a sin having 30% rise in his movement speed .. is it a bug or something ?? doesnt our speed add up ?


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#12 Snowberries01

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:53 PM

No offense, but your argument is invalid.
The assassin need the heal skill.. always the assassins die first (raid, party or whatever).. now is fine.. the heal was what we needed. The new heal effect does not have to be removed.. Furthermore, the Assassin is lurer in AoV. He receives the first damage, we need a good heal to stay alive in the fight with mobs and grimtooth can do that.
If you find that the effect Tension Relax is low , go to feedback from Warrior and post it there as a suggestion.

Sorry, but I disagree. Grimtooth is OP. What are priests, sorcerers, and soul makers for in a raid? They don't use pretty skills like Heal, Healing Wave, and Restoration for style points. A raid means teamwork; not a solo class being able to tank, heal, and DPS. I don't like the fact that an assassin can out heal a tank(the real lurers and the ones who takes all the threat.) Not just tanks though, assassin are able to out heal a rogue and the healer classes, basically taking everyone's role.

It was proper balance in pre-AoV between assassin and rogues. Assassins get a shield, Shadow Armor, while rogues get a heal, Gangster Paradise. So again sorry, but I have to agree with everyone saying "Grimtooth should not be a heal or be reduced in healing."
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#13 raela

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:14 AM

No offense, but your argument is invalid.
The assassin need the heal skill.. always the assassins die first (raid, party or whatever).. now is fine.. the heal was what we needed. The new heal effect does not have to be removed.. Furthermore, the Assassin is lurer in AoV. He receives the first damage, we need a good heal to stay alive in the fight with mobs and grimtooth can do that.

If you find that the effect Tension Relax is low , go to feedback from Warrior and post it there as a suggestion.

 

Shadow armor?? invalid too.

Shadow armor is a skill that can save the life of the Assassin, in pvp or pve.

The assassin has the defense very low.. and shadow armor is what we need to receive more hits without die.. always had that 50% extra defense, and the new effect is useful for assassin pvp player.

 

PS:im sorry my english.. im latin (from Chile), and my native language is spanish.

regards!

 

And with last night's Osiris runs.. I decided to try leaving adds alive. If anything, having them benefits me.. I wasn't running into problems even with tanking ~6 adds and a boss at the same time. After all, Grimtooth was a full heal every 7-8 seconds, and with that many, it would give me full combo points..

 

No shadow armor used.


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#14 9632130515120055620

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 06:05 AM

Sorry, but I disagree. Grimtooth is OP. What are priests, sorcerers, and soul makers for in a raid? They don't use pretty skills like Heal, Healing Wave, and Restoration for style points. A raid means teamwork; not a solo class being able to tank, heal, and DPS.

 

There is no relevant raiding in the game at the moment. Priest is *actually* being used as a DPS class more than a healer at MLs, and Sorcerer can match DPS just fine. I farmed Osiris last night with a Priest guildie and he did *500k* more threat than me on Osiris (yes, I'm geared) through DoTs alone, WHILE killing the adds. Sorcerer/Priest can tank, heal and DPS, and practically any other class with a good set of Shield and Cure runes. Maybe the heal numbers could be toned down a bit, but everyone currently has self-renovatio and self-shadow armor with these greenseed runes. I don't even use Shadow Armor at the moment since a] full osiris means you never die to anything anyway and b] these runes. I rarely, rarely use grimtooth.

 

I don't see the point in claiming a class is broken until raids actually exist to showcase it. Right now the endgame is PvP, and that's it (with Rangers being top dog).


Edited by 9632130515120055620, 26 February 2014 - 06:08 AM.

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#15 4458130508113924833

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:22 AM

Sorry, but I disagree. Grimtooth is OP. What are priests, sorcerers, and soul makers for in a raid? They don't use pretty skills like Heal, Healing Wave, and Restoration for style points. A raid means teamwork; not a solo class being able to tank, heal, and DPS. I don't like the fact that an assassin can out heal a tank(the real lurers and the ones who takes all the threat.) Not just tanks though, assassin are able to out heal a rogue and the healer classes, basically taking everyone's role.

It was proper balance in pre-AoV between assassin and rogues. Assassins get a shield, Shadow Armor, while rogues get a heal, Gangster Paradise. So again sorry, but I have to agree with everyone saying "Grimtooth should not be a heal or be reduced in healing."

Assasins DPS rotation is the simplest one of all the DPS classes, maybe only wizard can compete (in terms of simpleness), but Wizard can dish out much more damage, same as rogues, they have mark of death, they have combo mastery, and other procs to dish out more damage, they only proc assassins have is the Shadow Strike proc, besides that, we have nothing else, double attack, shadow strike, shadow explosion, and that's it. Unless we're lucky with SS proc, Rogues, Wizards and even Rangers at times (with charge arrow dealing 200% more damage than double attack) will always out-dps us. If you take out Shadow Armor/Grimtooth healing, sins basically become a mediocre DPS class which only redeeming quality is... Mobility.

Also, "are able to out heal a rogue and the healer classes, basically taking everyone's role." Good to know, I'm gonna start to advertise myself as a healer in parties lol. Oh wait, I can only heal myself, so I can't substitute a priest, nor a tank.

Edited by 4458130508113924833, 26 February 2014 - 08:22 AM.

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#16 rzevidz007

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:24 AM

Assasins DPS rotation is the simplest one of all the DPS classes, maybe only wizard can compete (in terms of simpleness), but Wizard can dish out much more damage, same as rogues, they have mark of death, they have combo mastery, and other procs to dish out more damage, they only proc assassins have is the Shadow Strike proc, besides that, we have nothing else, double attack, shadow strike, shadow explosion, and that's it. Unless we're lucky with SS proc, Rogues, Wizards and even Rangers at times (with charge arrow dealing 200% more damage than double attack) will always out-dps us. If you take out Shadow Armor/Grimtooth healing, sins basically become a mediocre DPS class which only redeeming quality is... Mobility.

Also, "are able to out heal a rogue and the healer classes, basically taking everyone's role." Good to know, I'm gonna start to advertise myself as a healer in parties lol. Oh wait, I can only heal myself, so I can't substitute a priest, nor a tank.

 

This. Oh wait, we're forgetting that tanks are also DPS now with capabilities to dish 100k+ damage. Sure..


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#17 buntaltampan

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:22 PM

I really hope the one who posted here, are people who actually played the class, not just another class who just qq asking nerf for assassin blablabla, sorc heal blablabla, priest this balblabla by seeing from another PoV, and felt their class inferior compared to sin.

 

grimtooth and shadow armor is fine. considering we didnt get the luxury of standing in the sorc's LOR.

 

 

 

also @tidus

go cry somewhere else, pls dont post the "buff up my class and nerf the others!".

qqing coz monk and bm are better than ur class

 

This is what I was talking about, why bashing on other classes just because your class is feeling inferior about them? Why not focus on improving yours and let those who played the class suggest improvements on their own classes. As for your posts are mainly from Knight's PoV on BMs. 
 
also please look at njoror's post
This thread will be about the Assassin class. If you've played Assassin and have some constructive feedback to give to help improve the class, use this thread as that platform.
 
 

 

Assasins DPS rotation is the simplest one of all the DPS classes, maybe only wizard can compete (in terms of simpleness), but Wizard can dish out much more damage, same as rogues, they have mark of death, they have combo mastery, and other procs to dish out more damage, they only proc assassins have is the Shadow Strike proc, besides that, we have nothing else, double attack, shadow strike, shadow explosion, and that's it. Unless we're lucky with SS proc, Rogues, Wizards and even Rangers at times (with charge arrow dealing 200% more damage than double attack) will always out-dps us. If you take out Shadow Armor/Grimtooth healing, sins basically become a mediocre DPS class which only redeeming quality is... Mobility.

Also, "are able to out heal a rogue and the healer classes, basically taking everyone's role." Good to know, I'm gonna start to advertise myself as a healer in parties lol. Oh wait, I can only heal myself, so I can't substitute a priest, nor a tank.

 


+1

 


Edited by buntaltampan, 26 February 2014 - 12:45 PM.

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#18 buntaltampan

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:57 PM

Sorry, but I disagree. Grimtooth is OP. What are priests, sorcerers, and soul makers for in a raid? They don't use pretty skills like Heal, Healing Wave, and Restoration for style points. A raid means teamwork; not a solo class being able to tank, heal, and DPS. I don't like the fact that an assassin can out heal a tank(the real lurers and the ones who takes all the threat.) Not just tanks though, assassin are able to out heal a rogue and the healer classes, basically taking everyone's role.

It was proper balance in pre-AoV between assassin and rogues. Assassins get a shield, Shadow Armor, while rogues get a heal, Gangster Paradise. So again sorry, but I have to agree with everyone saying "Grimtooth should not be a heal or be reduced in healing."

 

facepalm

taking everyones role? raid?

you should be thankful that we sins are now less burden.. with grimtooth and armor.

youre saying it as if we could aoe heal party and replace them healers.

and raid? what raid?.. wait till new raid content appears then you could actually compare.

 

this is stupid and plain qq


Edited by buntaltampan, 26 February 2014 - 01:04 PM.

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#19 raela

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:19 PM

To add on to my comments on my own survivability, I have a completely un-runed, un-upgraded Menace set on mine, with standard Scratch Thief cards (not even Normal+).. and I was tanking bosses 6 levels over me, and a ton of adds. Full heal every 7-8 seconds.. how is that not overpowered??


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#20 1133130606174013577

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:06 PM

To add on to my comments on my own survivability, I have a completely un-runed, un-upgraded Menace set on mine, with standard Scratch Thief cards (not even Normal+).. and I was tanking bosses 6 levels over me, and a ton of adds. Full heal every 7-8 seconds.. how is that not overpowered??


How isn't overpowered? Because currently, every class can solo Osiris with or without a full heal. That's not really an achievement at all. Also I think you're misusing the definition of the word 'overpowered'. Grimtooth isn't even the best skill in the assassin skill tree so how can it be overpowered?. The new buff has made grimtooth an effective skill that will actually see some use in the assassin rotation due to a secondary effect which has utility. Lets be honest; how often was grimtooth used pre AoV? For many assassin's it was probably one of the lesser used attacks. It's better to have a skill that's useful than one which is totally outclassed. If the healing effect of grimtooth is removed, it will never see the light of day again. 16% at level one? Why use it over double attack, or any other skill?

Is it necessary for ranged classes to have a self heal or damage mitigation skill? No because they're standing in LoR or sanc/del. Shadow armor and the newly buffed grimtooth allow assassins to be offensive in situations where other classes would have to go defensive. For example during Ramorts aoes, assassin could just shadow armor instead of retreating to the ranged group. Any time that assassin retreats is lost DPS and hence is why ranged classes usually have the advantage over melee. It is situations like these where the improved grimtooth and shadow armor are beneficial and enhance the play style of assassin class. Removal or nerfing of these skills would result in a one dimensional class with mediocre DPS which would be outright excluded from raids for offering no utility (remember pre AoV where the archetypal raid composition was knight, war, 1 melee, 1 wiz, 2 rangers, 2 sorcs and 2 priests). I sincerely hope that those on the nerf side have experience with the class in proper raids and colo, not people who got their gears through embus and then claim that assassins are too good for previous raids. Pre AoV the gap between melee and ranged classes was night and day. The gap between them is a lot more balanced thanks to the new survivability skills. It is really short sighted to suggest a nerf based on the current state of the game.

Onto actual suggestions for assassin:
I thought shadow strike was better when it was divided into three hits since you only had to get 1 of the 3 hits to get 3 combo points, ensuring more consistent dps. Other than that I think assassin class is fine the way it is for the most part. Maybe more crit would be nice since we were the 'crit DPS' type class pre AoV. The only other skill that could be improved upon is mark of genocide. Out of all the party buffs, it's pretty much the weakest one. 5% at 5/5 would be nice...but at the same time shadow claw is 5% as well. That would mean that MoG would be a better use of skill points than shadow claw since it's a 5% party buff vs a 5% self buff. Perhaps then shadow claw could be either a 10% crit buff or a 5% crit buff + 5% accuracy buff in order to distinguish it from a 5% MoG crit buff. That part is open for discussion. Point is, if MoG is buffed to 5%, then shadow claw would need something else to distinguish it from MoG.
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#21 raela

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:43 AM

How isn't overpowered? Because currently, every class can solo Osiris with or without a full heal. That's not really an achievement at all. Also I think you're misusing the definition of the word 'overpowered'. Grimtooth isn't even the best skill in the assassin skill tree so how can it be overpowered?. The new buff has made grimtooth an effective skill that will actually see some use in the assassin rotation due to a secondary effect which has utility. Lets be honest; how often was grimtooth used pre AoV? For many assassin's it was probably one of the lesser used attacks. It's better to have a skill that's useful than one which is totally outclassed. If the healing effect of grimtooth is removed, it will never see the light of day again. 16% at level one? Why use it over double attack, or any other skill?

Is it necessary for ranged classes to have a self heal or damage mitigation skill? No because they're standing in LoR or sanc/del. Shadow armor and the newly buffed grimtooth allow assassins to be offensive in situations where other classes would have to go defensive. For example during Ramorts aoes, assassin could just shadow armor instead of retreating to the ranged group. Any time that assassin retreats is lost DPS and hence is why ranged classes usually have the advantage over melee. It is situations like these where the improved grimtooth and shadow armor are beneficial and enhance the play style of assassin class. Removal or nerfing of these skills would result in a one dimensional class with mediocre DPS which would be outright excluded from raids for offering no utility (remember pre AoV where the archetypal raid composition was knight, war, 1 melee, 1 wiz, 2 rangers, 2 sorcs and 2 priests). I sincerely hope that those on the nerf side have experience with the class in proper raids and colo, not people who got their gears through embus and then claim that assassins are too good for previous raids. Pre AoV the gap between melee and ranged classes was night and day. The gap between them is a lot more balanced thanks to the new survivability skills. It is really short sighted to suggest a nerf based on the current state of the game.

 

The heal of the skill is overpowered is my point (damage-wise, I think it's fine). When other DPS classes solo them, can they leave all adds alive and focus on boss/survive with just pots? Unless they're using full heal pots, I kinda doubt it.. but I could be wrong.

 

Other melee classes (including tanks, since people choose to be DPS builds on those, too):

Warrior: skill desc is bugged :p_swt: I think it's 30% burst, 60% over 20 seconds? I haven't played my war too much, so I don't remember. Still, 120 sec CD, consumes all rage (need to build 100 for max effect)

Knight: 100% of physical damage for each aura, 20 sec CD (from forums, this barely heals anything)

Beastmaster: up to 30% of damage done, no CD but consumes 30 beast power

Monk: no heal

Crecentia: no heal (stigma-based will fight at melee range)

Rogue: 60% over 10 seconds, 40 sec CD at max, consumes all combo points

 

..and then us sins that can get 100% in under 10 seconds, without consuming any combo points (hell, it generates them.. so having multiple things around increases DPS by having finishers available more often).

 

Grimtooth had its uses pre-AoV for generating combo points in situations with multiple targets, and fighting at mid range (not common, but I know someone who did it). You can use it while running, so if you do have to run out of an AoE/ground target, you can smack the boss (and generate a combo point) when leaving, and potentially when coming back.

 

I don't think the heal effect needs to be removed, but I do think it needs to be scaled way down.. put a cap on it, or make it a percentage of damage inflicted instead of flat amount. I don't have much of an opinion on shadow armor since I don't really use it and nothing is hard enough to really require it right now (my computer lags too much to mob..)

 

And I always refused to Embus, bug, etc. I avoided PUG raids like the plague to do it, and because I was in a casual guild, I never got past CoA N. I was raiding as my sorc for nearly all of that time (because no one else in guild really played one), but I regularly raided with sins (and rogues) that were just as welcome and did fine, both survivability-wise and DPS-wise. Also, I don't like pvp so I don't colo, but sins were considered one of the strongest classes even without that heal.

 

I love my sin, and I feel we are doing pretty well right now.. I'm satisfied with my damage and available skills. I just can't help but feel like it's ridiculous being a melee DPS that has to worry more about SP than HP, even when it comes to bosses or high-end mobbing (taking on 50 mobs at once again without touching a single red potion..).


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#22 rzevidz007

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 04:07 AM

...

 

I love my sin, and I feel we are doing pretty well right now.. I'm satisfied with my damage and available skills.

 

We should all do this.

Feedbacks are there to help the devs balances things out for us to enjoy.

 

Me myself think Grimtooth should be toned down a bit, and I am too, a sin user and talking from a sin's PoV.


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#23 7919130520190725227

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 04:35 PM

Ign:mahque

Hi GM.. I agreed to what intra says..just wanna add some.

my sin got 1.06 attck speed and yet Im slower with some who got 1.15sec..

Most of my hits are missed, explosions only crit once instead of 2x..

24% chance to cast mark of shadow by strike but it looks like 1/100..

Hope this get fix if In case its bugged..

Thanks..
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#24 7919130520190725227

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:27 PM

fail+crit.jpg

 

 

This is a sample GM Njonor,,

 

I got MArk of shadow which makes my Shadow explotion(1090% dmg)  2x Hit.. which i supposed to have 30k x 2 hit 

but only 13k x 2.. -_-

 

one more thing, the shadow assault STUN always missed.. when using that i must be at the side/back or front of opponent and yet im still atleast 5-10M away,, 

 

hope SIn skills get fix soon..

 

IGN: mahque


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#25 RashaKitty

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:06 PM

IGN: AoTori 

(others also listed in my sig)

 

Feedback type- All

 

I've been playing a sin since june. I also play 4 other classes (yes they are master level characters) and i can say honestly that none of my other characters have as many glitches or have as much of a HISTORY of glitches as sin.

 

i'll just do them in order (more or less)

 

hiding- fine as is

 

double attack- i don't see anything too terrible about this except that maybe the damage is a bit low for a dps class.

 

deadly blow- has anyone else noticed that deadly blow which is supposed to be a power hitter...has a max damage of only 285%? this is using 5 combo points. double attack does 250% and deadly blow is also 250% with 7% increase per combo point...like what? 

 

 I did some testing with this. the description is wrong so its probably fine as it is. the combo points add 70% damage per not 7% 

 

combo training- sin have plenty of ways to get combo points and this only increases the chance by 15% at most making it more or less worthless. sure its passive but who would waste valuable points on something that barely does anything?

 

dark illusion & shadow assault- (gonna put these 2 together)

More or less since the beginning of this game sin teleport/jump skills have been glitchy. some have been 'fixed' only to break again. Before it was a 'unable to move to target location.' now it simply doesn't move you to the target location about 25% of the time or mobs don't recognize that you've moved to the target location or i simply get skill locked . (happened 3 times in 1 hour and i had to stop using dark illusion for the aggravation of re-logging). considering my hit rate is extremely high (i have full osiris gear) shadow assault still misses about 25% of the time on lvl 30 mobs??!!!???

 

dagger throw-fine as is. its for luring :P good skill

 

mark of genocide & shadow claw- (putting these together too :P)

our personal 5% buff i think is already very nice considering current crit rates. but i think an increase to the party buff would be good as it would make sins more of a benefit to other classes and more reason for us to waste- i mean use skill points on the party buff. :P (i actually think crit rate is extremely important and have always had this at lvl 5 but i know a lot of other sins actually think its a waste of skill points because the bonus is so low)

 

meteor assault- the only sin aoe that doesn't require a target and it has (sorta decent) damage...it can only hit 3 targets. its damage isn't good enough to make up for the fact it is barely an aoe. It sucks. no one uses it. if they want it to be a viable skill it would need to be reworked. simply increasing the number of enemies hit from 3 to 9 would make it useful :P

 

cross impact- is the most utterly worthless skill ever. the end.  i would like to see this changed to instead of it taking us behind the enemy perhaps attacking the target and then knocking us away from said enemy. that would make it a useful skill in pvp and also in boss fights where you want to avoid aoe :P either way i actually know sins who forget this exists. 

 

poison weapon- this used to be a good skill before AoV. now its garbage. i full osiris geared sin with lvl 5 of this does...get ready...450 damage per second. prior to aov i could do 1k damage per tick. yet many other classes have dots that do 5k??!!! And this is our ONLY dot. If the damage is gonna stay the same make it a 100% chance to apply and apply using any skill (like the description says but it doesn't actually do because it never works with my aoe :<)

 

hiding exceed- fine as is

 

shadow fiend- omg 12% chance at lvl 3 to do an extra hit thats less then 1 double attack? gaspeth! ermergerd! (this skill is kinda junk) increase the proc rate and be kinda cool. 

 

grimtooth- i love what they did with it. it gives sin a much needed survivability. prior to this all sin had was shadow armor and even with that you could still take lots of damage with no way to heal yourself. 8 sec cooldown op? no because our defence is NOT as high as a tank. we need to heal more often. we run around alot very fast making us hard to heal. also, we are NOT the tank and will not be the main focus of the healer so uh...self heal with low cooldown. it makes sense. prior to aov, it was the sins and other melee classes that guzzled red pots while the casters barely used any.  people complain about blue pot use but i have magic caster classes and their current pot consumption still has nothing on the hp pot use of sin prior to AoV. 

 

shadow armor- please for the love of god don't ever change this. sin needs this for those 'oh -_-' moments and to be viable in pvp against warriors that can do 70k rage strike hits of doom.  

 

shadow fang- really low damage compared to many other classes aoe...but hey no cooldown and hits lotsa targets i'm cool with it. only annoying thing is the directional thing. tab targeting often picks a target behind you even when you have like 15 things in front of you. its totally irritating. but still a good skill. :P

 

shadow form- the change in the appearance was needed. i don't know how many times i got called an ugly dog demon thing before. also there was no point wearing any costumes and could never see your gear or anything. :(  but now everyone thinks sins look cool and we are a well liked class :P

 

shadow strike- this skill is basically totally optional. its damage isn't so great that its a must have (unless you want to use quite a few skill points) and the proc for shadow explosion very rarely actually works. the 3 combo points are just as easily gotten using grimtooth most of the time or just saving them til shadow explosion is actually ready. plus the cooldown is kinda high so...

 

shadow explosion- cool skill that does great damage :P the way a sin should. glad its not broken anymore. 

 

 

many seem to think that grimtooth and even shadow armor are OP. i would suspect these people did not play pre-aov where sin survivability in dungeons like AOD and chaos was nearly non-existent. shadow armor max lvl was almost essential and grimtooth would have made it better seeing as about 80% of the time the healer can't afford to heal you the close range aoe damage you sustained back then. 

 

before the look change to shadow form sin was possibly the most outcast, least wanted, most hated thing you could play. i had been denied raids many times because 'your a melee and you'll just die. we'll just take a 4th ranger trololol.' 

 

extremely frustrating is the best way to describe that. sin has a lot of great potential as a class and i think the current use of grimtooth and shadow armor is just fine. it allows sin to utilize their speed and grab adds and tank those adds so that the tank doesn't have too! if raids existed this would be considered a raid mechanics. in current game play it is still neccessary because it allows sin to be useful in an aoe grind party. as the fastest in the party you quickly grab mobs while the classes with superior aoe nuke the crap out of them. Because lets face it, sin doesn't have great aoe. they are directional based and not really intended for mass slaughter. 

 

Sin is supposed to be a single target attacker! yet i do notice that many other classes out damage us easily in this respect. i do not think sin needs any buff on any of its aoe. Aoe is not our thing. 

 

i would like to see an increase in some of the single target skills? please and thanks. 

.

in addition to this, i have noticed that melee do not get a very good damage output on pets. Or at least my sin does not. i have a lvl 3 imp and a lvl 3 mermaid both of whose dot damage is only 1.2k ish. i've been told that magic casters with the same level pet and with less geared character can have these pets at lvl 3 do as much as 2.5k. if this is the case then i think pets need to be rebalanced as well as some classes get an increased benefit over others and i don't think that is the intended purpose of the pets. (i thought the pets were meant to give equal advantage to whoever used them.)

 

also, my sin seems to get graphics glitch more often then my other characters. for instance yesterday i ended up skating on 3 different occasions within the span of a few hours and had to relog to fix it. it isn't game breaking or anything just annoying. 

 

will try to find pictures of the above mention teleport skill problems. here is one of the skating thing i mentioned.  

 

ScreenCapture_2014_03_21_00_19_42.jpg

 


Edited by RashaKitty, 26 March 2014 - 12:21 AM.

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