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Beastmaster Feedback: Suggestions


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#1 Njoror

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:25 AM

Hello.

 

This topic will be used to collect Beastmaster class suggestions.

 

Please use the form below when submitting balance issues.

 

Remember, the more detail, image, or video that can be provided, the quicker these issues can be addressed.

 

Character Name:

Suggestion Type: (Example: Skill, Stats, Animation, etc)

Suggestion Description:

Video/Image Link (if applicable):


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#2 Arbalist

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:44 PM

Character Name: Arbalist

Suggestion Type: Skill - Cruel Bite

Suggestion Description: 

The scaling of the heal % can be adjusted slightly to signal to new players to invest in the skill. Currently it's 10/10/10/10/10/14/18/22/26/30 for levels 1 to 10 respectively. BMs below master level would have little incentive to get the skill to level 5. They may not be aware that the skill becomes massively better with additional investment. The change I propose would be something more like: 10/11/12/13/15/17/19/22/26/30. This can be an important change because there are no skill resets upon reaching master level and BMs who are not saving up points for 10/10 Cruel Bite will be at a disadvantage.

 

Personally though, 30% max is a lot. I would think 25% or even 20% will suffice, but talks of nerfs tend to get people riled up. Regardless, these would be the scalings I suggest:

25% max: 10/11/12/13/14/16/18/20/22/25

20% max: 10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/20

 

*Bold means unlocked through Master levels.


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#3 Turniper

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:23 PM

 

Character Name: Arbalist

Suggestion Type: Skill - Cruel Bite

Suggestion Description: 

The scaling of the heal % can be adjusted slightly to signal to new players to invest in the skill. Currently it's 10/10/10/10/10/14/18/22/26/30 for levels 1 to 10 respectively. BMs below master level would have little incentive to get the skill to level 5. They may not be aware that the skill becomes massively better with additional investment. The change I propose would be something more like: 10/11/12/13/15/17/19/22/26/30. This can be an important change because there are no skill resets upon reaching master level and BMs who are not saving up points for 10/10 Cruel Bite will be at a disadvantage.

 

Personally though, 30% max is a lot. I would think 25% or even 20% will suffice, but talks of nerfs tend to get people riled up. Regardless, these would be the scalings I suggest:

25% max: 10/11/12/13/14/16/18/20/22/25

20% max: 10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/20

 

*Bold means unlocked through Master levels.

 

 

 

25% max: 10/11/12/13/15/17/19/21/23/25

 

Just changed the values around to make them prettier. But yeah, something like this definitely would be better.


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#4 922130506224621990

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:51 AM

Character Name: Skyfoo

Suggestion Type: Skill WILD CRUSH

Suggestion Description: what in the world are you guys doing to our dot with your phantom patches........ with 7k atk(grizzly form)dont have bear form... my dot now hits for 4-500 dmg/per2sec :p_omg:

officially the weakest and worst dot in the game now........ a month or two ago it was atleast hitting for 2to3k a tick which is still garbage compared to wiz and priests!! now it seems like every patch it gets weaker and weaker, while others remain op :hmm: 


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#5 Verinne

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:31 PM

Personally though, 30% max is a lot. I would think 25% or even 20% will suffice, but talks of nerfs tend to get people riled up. Regardless, these would be the scalings I suggest:

25% max: 10/11/12/13/14/16/18/20/22/25

20% max: 10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/20

 

*Bold means unlocked through Master levels.

 

 

Would have to disagree. especially 20% max. If you would ask people, 10 points for 1% increase per point is a bit waste to invest into. Also, Cruel Bite might be OP on Grizzly Form but certainly not on Bear (Brown Atk) Form. As for now, Cruel Bite in Bear Form works fine not to mention hit-dodge problems. 

 

Character Name: Vinzy

Suggestion Type: Animation - Beast Charge Skill

Suggestion Description: 

Like Knight's Shield Charge Skill, the long animation makes us prone to getting stucked/bugged unable to use skill/items afterwards. I would like to suggest to make it instant like Shadow Assault(Assassin) or Dark Illusion(Thief).


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#6 Arbalist

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 06:25 PM

Would have to disagree. especially 20% max. If you would ask people, 10 points for 1% increase per point is a bit waste to invest into. Also, Cruel Bite might be OP on Grizzly Form but certainly not on Bear (Brown Atk) Form. As for now, Cruel Bite in Bear Form works fine not to mention hit-dodge problems. 

 

I'm using regular Bear Form for regular farming too and 30% still feels like a bit too much. But I won't argue with you without testing it out. We also don't have news on hit/dodge fixes so yes, I'm jumping to conclusions too. Since I don't feel like wasting money on skill resets, perhaps it's time I made another BM just to see how much 20% fares (well 18%/22% is the closest I can get to). Anyways, I don't intend for my personal opinions to be the basis for nerfing the skill, at least not without adequate testing. The purpose of my report was to simply adjust the scaling for the current 30% max. Can we agree on that part?


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#7 Turniper

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:36 PM

25% is a good start for Cruel Bite, and it's far from useless in bear form. A 25% heal with a stun proc that's in our regular damage rotation and has no CD is pretty strong. The only alternative skill to use when you've got beast power to spend is brutal strike and cruel bite has a chance to reset the CD for that so it's far from useless. In PvE right now, even a 10% heal would still be more than enough, and for PvP, the skill only sounds bad now because of the bad hit rates.

 


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#8 Verinne

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 06:45 AM

25% is a good start for Cruel Bite, and it's far from useless in bear form. A 25% heal with a stun proc that's in our regular damage rotation and has no CD is pretty strong. The only alternative skill to use when you've got beast power to spend is brutal strike and cruel bite has a chance to reset the CD for that so it's far from useless. In PvE right now, even a 10% heal would still be more than enough, and for PvP, the skill only sounds bad now because of the bad hit rates.

 

nobody said it was useless, its just not OP on attack form to ask for reduction.

 

 

But man, seriously, BM is fine as it is. No need for nerf this and nerf that bla bla blah, as nerfing isn't always the solution for balance. You can also obtain balance by adding more on them and less to us or even stay as it is for us. 

 

Its like this:

 

Beastmaster and other classes rating (On a scale of 1 to 10) 

 

From: 

BM - 7

CLASS W - 7

CLASS X - 3

CLASS Y - 5

CLASS Z - 4

 

Balance WITH nerf (on a scale of 1 - 10)

To: 

BM - 5

CLASS W - 5

CLASS X - 5

CLASS Y - 5

CLASS Z - 5

 

*Devs get all class to 5 rating points,  nerfing BM & Class W, improve X and Z, and retain Class Y. Those who got improvements get happy, those who got nerfed q.qing.

 

Balance WITHOUT nerf (on a scale of 1 - 10)

To:

BM - 8

CLASS W - 8

CLASS X - 8

CLASS Y - 8

CLASS Z - 8

 

*Devs get all classes to 8 rating points. everybody got improved either by 1 point or more. thus maintaining balance. everybody happy. ^.^

 

I hope you get my point. 

 

We have future updates ahead, I don't wanna end up being a toothless beast or just a fat lump mascot in the near future. 


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#9 Turniper

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 10:24 AM

It's not nerfing a class when we're looking at other things and buffing those as well. BMs are "fine" as it is but many skills and mechanics are broken right now and when those are fixed it'll lead to some balance issues. And buffing every class isn't realistic, because then we'd all have 100k insta-kills, 6k dots, strong heals, and 75%+ defense. Another argument against buffing everyone is that the last time they did that we got AoV. Something like that is too drastic when only small changes are needed. No one is suggesting BMs go from an 8 to a 5, we're suggesting it go from an 8 in everything to a 6 in some things and a 9 in other things so there's so it's an actual dynamic class with strengths and weaknesses.


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#10 Verinne

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:20 AM

It's not nerfing a class when we're looking at other things and buffing those as well. BMs are "fine" as it is but many skills and mechanics are broken right now and when those are fixed it'll lead to some balance issues. And buffing every class isn't realistic, because then we'd all have 100k insta-kills, 6k dots, strong heals, and 75%+ defense. Another argument against buffing everyone is that the last time they did that we got AoV. Something like that is too drastic when only small changes are needed. No one is suggesting BMs go from an 8 to a 5, we're suggesting it go from an 8 in everything to a 6 in some things and a 9 in other things so there's so it's an actual dynamic class with strengths and weaknesses.

 

Hmm... but reading the suggestions and other posts here at BM thread,  mostly seeing "trim this, trim that" because its OP bla bla blah,  change class bonus from def to HP, (do we really need more HP?) because defense is OP. I hope you consider that recently added "Penetration" sub-stat which ignores defense. As we know AoV mobs and bosses already have them. 

 

Also some of them aren't even playing the class. lulz.  :chomok01:  :chomok02:  :chomok03:  :chomok04:  :Emo_12:  :Emo_13:  :Emo_14:  :Emo_15:  :Emo_16:  :Emo_17:

 

So where's the buffing part of it? And do we really need buffing? How many suggestions are in favor of buffing than trimming(nerfing)? How bout you? what's your stand on improvements for Beastmasters? Wanna hear from both of the VCRs. 

 

What they did in AoV was magnify everything which made up a big mess in the system. The DoTs (oh gawd that wedge) people thought it was normal so they were asking to bring it back, also that strong heals from sorcs (and HP pot potency) are bugs and not considered normal.  They were adjusted after succeeding patches.

 

That scale rating in my previous post was to show an example of how balance can be done without nerfing. We can stay at 7 (no changes at all) and others to 7 as well. Also the numbers are meant to be overall rating not per skill rating as we need another comparison for that. 

 

Anyways, suggestions

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Character Name: Vinzy

Suggestion Type: New Skill - Mass Taunt (Tank Branch)

Suggestion Description: As a tank, we also need a skill to hold mobs (you know that feeling when one ad/pawn wants the healer more than you) breaking the limits of just being a "Main Tank" and can be "Off-Tank" as well. Yes we got AoEs that have added threat but having a skill with better aggro management is also good. (for future raids)

 

Character Name: Vinzy

Suggestion Type: New Skill - Javelin Throw (DPS Branch)

Suggestion Description: Beastmasters originated from Archers so having a long range skill would be nice and logical.


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#11 Turniper

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 01:29 AM

As for buffs that we're looking at the two major ones are:

 

-Grizzly being able to use Ymir Form and Bear Carnival somehow.

 

-Bear Form not working properly and only amounting to ~8% more damage.

 

Then the minor ones from skills not working:

 

-Frenzy/fury strike

 

-Predator/boundary buff

 

We're also looking looking at decreasing the CD and making Bear Carnival more useful


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#12 Verinne

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:24 PM

ah looks promising.

 

We can only use Bear Carnival twice at most (while Guardian is active) within the whole Ymir duration (lv3 and lv3 Carnival) and only once most of the time. 

 

I never noticed that bear form (atk form) isn't giving 30%, I knew it got boost a bit but I would care less about the value. Does that include opponent's defense? Also, I wonder how people would react if the rates are increased from 8% (based on what you said) into 30%. They're prolly gonna q.q for that. 


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#13 Arbalist

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 05:04 PM

Since no one commented on it in the discussion thread, I might as well move it to suggestions in hopes of implementation. If you want to discuss why it's a good/bad idea, go here: http://forums.warppo...stmaster/page-3


Character Name: Arbalist

Suggestion Type: Skill

Suggestion Description:

Form changes are currently disabled upon death. It's more noticeable when you Colo with Grizzly and upon respawn you have to recast and your HP doesn't jump up to fit the transformation. Other class semi-permanent toggles aren't disabled upon death (ie. Aura Sword, Aura Shield, Steel Body etc.) but ours is. When we start up Grizzly again, we are basically start off with roughly 60% of our total HP. Even if we have high Defense and HP, when I see someone with 60% HP, I would intuitively focus more on attacking that character. It's bearable (hah.) but it still feels like a handicap regardless. Looking at it in this way, we wouldn't be starting off at equal footing with other classes, so there's potential for imbalance in that sense.

The other alternative is to disable everyone else's semi-permanent toggles upon death, but that would add inconveniences to toggle reliant classes (Warriors, Monks, Knights etc.) and not to those that don't require toggles (Wizard, Priest etc.). This request is specifically for toggles, not buffs like Attention Concentration or Dragonology.

And just to cover my bases, please nobody suggest a healing HP with transformation because that's crazy abusable.


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