64 replies to this topic

[Kuchy]

Character Name:nikichi

Suggestion Type: new aoe skill

Suggestion Description:a max 10 monster 5 hit aoe skill like warrior's brandish storm except it should be like a chi explosion that causes a stuttering effect on monsters only. something like 1/5 100% 2/5 150% 3/5 200% 4/5 250%% 5/5 300%.

 

Monks already have lightning crush, though not utilized as much as the other AOE skills of other classes. Perhaps the lightning crush can be reworked on, possibly giving it other effects rather than creating a new skill totally. What I do think would be better for the monk is a rework on the animation as pointed out earlier by Greven. Sometimes the animation affects your gameplay more than the skill itself.

[Tenderloin]

Suggestion Type : counter punch skills

 

Suggestion Description : Counter punchers are tactical, defensive fighters who rely on opponent mistakes in order to gain an attacking advantage to Returns any damage you take to the unit that dealt the damage and the chance of a KnockOut 3 Second . They use their well-rounded defensive skills to avoid or block attacks in order immediately to place well-timed punches on opponents who have lost their guard.

 

spiritual Cadence 0.01% / int counter rate, counter skill is more suitable for monk than BT or Penetration

[Greven79]

There two difficulties with those counter-punches:

• First you have to check the source of the damage and then calculate whether it's still in range for your counterattack
• It scales really badly. Depending on how often you're hit, it gets worse the better you become (f.e. increased dodge rate).

What I suggested more than a year ago was to make Shadow Fiend a monk skill... as it actually grants a free extra attack.

This can be seen as the option to transform 'Raging Trifecta Blow' into some sort of 'Raging Quadruple Blow'.

[Tenderloin]

There two difficulties with those counter-punches:

• First you have to check the source of the damage and then calculate whether it's still in range for your counterattack
• It scales really badly. Depending on how often you're hit, it gets worse the better you become (f.e. increased dodge rate).

What I suggested more than a year ago was to make Shadow Fiend a monk skill... as it actually grants a free extra attack.

This can be seen as the option to transform 'Raging Trifecta Blow' into some sort of 'Raging Quadruple Blow'.

 

Monk need a skill Countering battletactic/penetration/DoT , Asura strike combo is to slow and long cooldown , flee/ki protection is useless if you dead before can use it

[Greven79]

Monk need a skill Countering battletactic/penetration/DoT , Asura strike combo is to slow and long cooldown , flee/ki protection is useless if you dead before can use it

 

Nope.

 

Monks aren't the only that are prone to battle tactics, penetration and DoTs. (In fact, the resettable Ki-Protection offers at some chances against DoTs other classes don't have). So the only reasonable conclusion is to nerf these effects, rather than boosting the monk class.

 

And the counterpunch idea wouldn't protect against these kind of things at all.
 

Edited by Greven79, 26 May 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[Tenderloin]

Nope.

Monks aren't the only that are prone to battle tactics, penetration and DoTs. (In fact, the resettable Ki-Protection offers at some chances against DoTs other classes don't have). So the only reasonable conclusion is to nerf these effects, rather than boosting the monk class.

And the counterpunch idea wouldn't protect against these kind of things at all.

I want monk skill not useless in woe , slow aoe skill ,single target stun , long cooldown and single target , self buff , no mass provoke, but with counter skill maybe can usefull vs many target

[Greven79]

I want monk skill not useless in woe , slow aoe skill ,single target stun , long cooldown and single target , self buff , no mass provoke, but with counter skill maybe can usefull vs many target

 

To make a class more useful doesn't mean you have to boost that class. Instead you can nerf others.

 

And if you complain about certain aspect (f.e high cooldown), why didn't you focus yourself on these aspects instead of trying to compensate the disadvantage with completely new & different skill?

 

In fact, there were plenty of suggestions that focused on damage reflection (not only for monks).... and that's a thing I don't understand. Why does it seem that 'payback' or 'revenge' skills are commons ideas? Is it because you don't have to do anything for dealing damage, just standing there? Is it because you want some retalliation against stealth characters attacking out of hide? Some special advantages for being laggy? Or is it as a countermeasure against overkills?

 

Because to me, balancing the current active skills seems much more preferrable and enjoyable.

 

About the other things you've mentioned.

 

Mass Provoke:

Do you really miss this skill? Especially in WoE? I find it rather underwhelming. The range of the skill isn't that much larger than the range of an AoE. So if you really need some threat, you could also drink a potion. The heal effect will also generate threat, so you can 'lure' mobs this way as well.

 

No self buff:

In a group of 10 Warriors//Knights, 9 of them wasted their skillpoints. So rather be happy that you don't have one and that you got more useful skills instead. I mean just imagine you'd have a +10% dodge party buff or the Sorcerer buff (+20% defense). Would this make you feel that more useful?

 

For me, all the party buffs that are currently in the game are really awful. The 30min duration is just stupid and the passive effects are just lame. It doesn't really feel like a real team bonus.

 

Single target stun:

Yes, other classes can stun multiple opponents, but the monk attack is an 'auto-aim', has one of the fastest animations, deals damage right away, generates Inner Spirit, the knockdown lasts longer (5sec) and it's resettable via Summon Spirit Sphere.

 

So each class has it's unique advantages. F.e. a Knight's Shield Charge doesn't deal damage, the Beast Charge has quite a slow animation (Wild Impact also deals no damage). And it seems that many Warriors would prefer a Lightning Walk over a Battle Leap, because the former doesn't force you to aim manually.

 

Slow AoE skill:

Well, the monk surely has one of the weakest AoE skills, but that's due to the low DPS not really because it's slow. A Thunderstorm f.e. also has a 3sec starting cooldown as well and unlike a Brandish Storm, Meteor Storm, Lord of Vermillion, Magnus Exorcism or Arrow Shower, the cooldown of Lightning Crush can be shortened with vigor. So you could even achieve a 1.8sec cooldown (40% vigor).

 

Of course, you still won't achieve the same DPS as classes with Battle Tactics or DoTs, but that's a different story.

 

So don't get me wrong. I am aware that monks aren't that useful compared to a few well-known classes. But all these inbalances are already put in question. The DoTs might be an exception, due to a statement from Gravity that they are "aware of the issues with some of the formulas", which let us (or at least me) hope, that they'll come up with their own idea (first).

[Tenderloin]

To make a class more useful doesn't mean you have to boost that class. Instead you can nerf others.

And if you complain about certain aspect (f.e high cooldown), why didn't you focus yourself on these aspects instead of trying to compensate the disadvantage with completely new & different skill?

In fact, there were plenty of suggestions that focused on damage reflection (not only for monks).... and that's a thing I don't understand. Why does it seem that 'payback' or 'revenge' skills are commons ideas? Is it because you don't have to do anything for dealing damage, just standing there? Is it because you want some retalliation against stealth characters attacking out of hide? Some special advantages for being laggy? Or is it as a countermeasure against overkills?

Because to me, balancing the current active skills seems much more preferrable and enjoyable.

About the other things you've mentioned.

Mass Provoke:
Do you really miss this skill? Especially in WoE? I find it rather underwhelming. The range of the skill isn't that much larger than the range of an AoE. So if you really need some threat, you could also drink a potion. The heal effect will also generate threat, so you can 'lure' mobs this way as well.

No self buff:
In a group of 10 Warriors//Knights, 9 of them wasted their skillpoints. So rather be happy that you don't have one and that you got more useful skills instead. I mean just imagine you'd have a +10% dodge party buff or the Sorcerer buff (+20% defense). Would this make you feel that more useful?

For me, all the party buffs that are currently in the game are really awful. The 30min duration is just stupid and the passive effects are just lame. It doesn't really feel like a real team bonus.

Single target stun:
Yes, other classes can stun multiple opponents, but the monk attack is an 'auto-aim', has one of the fastest animations, deals damage right away, generates Inner Spirit, the knockdown lasts longer (5sec) and it's resettable via Summon Spirit Sphere.

So each class has it's unique advantages. F.e. a Knight's Shield Charge doesn't deal damage, the Beast Charge has quite a slow animation (Wild Impact also deals no damage). And it seems that many Warriors would prefer a Lightning Walk over a Battle Leap, because the former doesn't force you to aim manually.

Slow AoE skill:
Well, the monk surely has one of the weakest AoE skills, but that's due to the low DPS not really because it's slow. A Thunderstorm f.e. also has a 3sec starting cooldown as well and unlike a Brandish Storm, Meteor Storm, Lord of Vermillion, Magnus Exorcism or Arrow Shower, the cooldown of Lightning Crush can be shortened with vigor. So you could even achieve a 1.8sec cooldown (40% vigor).

Of course, you still won't achieve the same DPS as classes with Battle Tactics or DoTs, but that's a different story.

So don't get me wrong. I am aware that monks aren't that useful compared to a few well-known classes. But all these inbalances are already put in question. The DoTs might be an exception, due to a statement from Gravity that they are "aware of the issues with some of the formulas", which let us (or at least me) hope, that they'll come up with their own idea (first).

Other class has secondary and finisher aoe why monk only have a weak ordinary aoe?

I loss thread if other tank using pot too

Resetable stun monk vs unlimited stun knight or aoe priest? And single stun vs a raid army is useless.it is good if you can hide like assasin and rogue pvp people but monk cannot do that

[Shinyusuke]

where did you see a unlimited stun knight? O_O We knight need a really high vigor to acquire a unlimited stun but at the same time against a monk the shances to miss are so high and the damage of our stun so low that is not a good idea focus on it.

I doubt there are a lot of knight that max our stun and in any case is not an AoE stun.

It's way more easyer to use 10 skill points on our shield boomerang and his speed debuff (good in grinding against meele mobs and to run away from priests).

 

What i want mean that all this talk is is based only on skills but not on the skill points needed, some skills can be seen as op or amazing from the outside but their cost is so high to make them useless for example max shield bash to lower the cooldown seems a good idea but is not since you need too many skill points.

From my experience monks will always be a valid class expecially in pvp, instead on pve they play a nice role of dps more than a tank calss.

[Tenderloin]

where did you see a unlimited stun knight? O_O We knight need a really high vigor to acquire a unlimited stun but at the same time against a monk the shances to miss are so high and the damage of our stun so low that is not a good idea focus on it.
I doubt there are a lot of knight that max our stun and in any case is not an AoE stun.
It's way more easyer to use 10 skill points on our shield boomerang and his speed debuff (good in grinding against meele mobs and to run away from priests).

What i want mean that all this talk is is based only on skills but not on the skill points needed, some skills can be seen as op or amazing from the outside but their cost is so high to make them useless for example max shield bash to lower the cooldown seems a good idea but is not since you need too many skill points.
From my experience monks will always be a valid class expecially in pvp, instead on pve they play a nice role of dps more than a tank calss.

Pvp is useless , monk in woe cannot ambush people , lightning walk to a raid party and died, eddga monk doesn't have high dodge, do you play monk? Who want grinding with monk aoe skill? If monk is a single target class why asura strike is weaker than normal skill like grimtooth,crossimpact,bash? Maybe asura strike can oneshot people but need a combo first and asura strike is a finisher move

[Greven79]

Other class has secondary and finisher aoe why monk only have a weak ordinary aoe?

I loss thread if other tank using pot too

Resetable stun monk vs unlimited stun knight or aoe priest? And single stun vs a raid army is useless.it is good if you can hide like assasin and rogue pvp people but monk cannot do that

 

Pvp is useless , monk in woe cannot ambush people , lightning walk to a raid party and died, eddga monk doesn't have high dodge, do you play monk? Who want grinding with monk aoe skill? If monk is a single target class why asura strike is weaker than normal skill like grimtooth,crossimpact,bash? Maybe asura strike can oneshot people but need a combo first and asura strike is a finisher move

 

I think we got on the wrong track. What I tried to do is to clearify things.

 

F.e. when you state that Knights have an unlimited stun, it seems to me that you ignore the fact that kinghts needs 70%+ vigor rate to achieve that. A similar vigor rate for monks and the Lightning Walk that knocks the target down for 5sec would have a 6sec cooldown and a Warrior's Battle Leap would have a 4.5sec cooldown.

 

But that's not meant to be discrediting, just my way to say: "Keep things in relation and consider all the other aspects". I am not here to judge whether an AoE stun outbests a longer knockdown, etc. I had these kind of discussions already.

 

In fact, the only reason why I included this example above is because you can see how these kind of statements can bring other players (Shinyusuke in this case) to respond in the same (careless) way.

___________

 

So let's try a restart!

 

Whereas I usually try to stay objective, let me put aside all the indirect blah-blah this time.

 

Yes, you're right, monks suck in WoE and group battles. I even warned new players starting/playing one. You have to be lucky to get your combo going without the hatred miss in between that ruins everything, and you'll be useless while the G-Fist is cooling down.

 

And yes, it cen be really frustrating to look around and to see how Assassins one-shot their foes out of hide and to know that even if they would miss, they'll just pop Shadow Armor and rehide a few sec later.

 

And yes, it can get annoying to hear the swordsmen classes bragging about how they dealt 4trillion damage or how they killed 7+ enemies. knowing that even with the deadliest G-First, it would still take roughly 2mins to get the same 7 kills.

 

But I experience the same 'anger' on less obvious things. F.e. if I was hit by a Furnunculus that leaves me the choice to die quicky and to use spinel or to struggle for 30sec, wasting masses of purple pots just to stay alive somehow.

 

But the hardest test of patience:

You can be sure that there will be enough players stating that it's not even an issue, that you're selfish, that you don't know that class, that they 'deserve it', that it is their 'class specialty' or an 'irrelevant exception', etc.. And the best ones: "Now, it's too late" and "it would be too punishing now". IMO, that's then also an indirect mockery about the effort you've spent to improve your character without ending up brokenly OP.

 

BUT:

Despite all that - I usually just use a more restrained version for the same context - I am still convinced that the only way to fix this game is to adjust things downwards, not improving other things until they achieve the same brokenness.

 

So you see, it's not that I disagree with any of your points. I just wouldn't give the monk an additional payback (or BT/Pen/DoT-countermeassure) attack. There ought to be another way beside a limitless proliferation.

Edited by Greven79, 09 June 2015 - 10:42 AM.

[Yamorakiro]

Character Name: HollowNeji

Suggestion Type: Skill

Suggestion Description: I think Monks need an AoE that's effective for mob control like Knights and Warriors have.

Most other classes have AoE's to and I think Monks are uncommon in grinding parties and often not invited either due to the lack of not having a AoE.

Video/Image Link (if applicable): Non-Applicable 

[Futreskah]

Yeah need AOE for Tank type -  maybe boost some distance effect

[bromo1513]

Character Name: Rikipurist

Suggestion Type: Skill - Heavy Tackle

Suggestion : On lvl 5 Heavy Tackle, i need a new formula for this skill especially about internal wound debuff, monk dont have to stack 3 inner energy to use this skill, every inner energy take a effect on how long the stun and chance maybe damage too :

- 1 inner energy : internal wound chance 5% causes stun 3 sec

- 2 inner energy : internal wound chance 10% causes stun 4 sec

- 3 inner energy : internal wound chance 15% causes stun 5 sec

 

because its make frustated with the chance, and when we got the chance we miss it that just 3 sec, we got a delay

 

Suggestion Type: Skill - Crushing Blow

Suggestion :the the DoT so useless, this skill has cooldown, damage its okay but add internal wound debuff too in this skill, because monk need that debuff for 4x asura, the chance less than heavy tackle (ex: 5%), then this skill will be more usefull

 

its all about internal wound, sorry im so bad in english, thank you       

 

Edited by bromo1513, 03 December 2016 - 04:16 AM.

[KratS]

The MONK class is perfect as it is, except for 2 things:

•The AOE skill It should not have CD!!!!!!!!!!, it kills fasters 1 to 1, than with the AOE, makes it useless to mob large quantitys of mobs. It's either that or make it hit a lot more, or triple time so the cast is non-stop. It would be better to be Required 1 Energy and NO CD


•For an VIT/AGI based class, it got nothing except for a buff of 10 sec duration, to improve this quality, neither the Crit Rate%, it would be better if the skill FLEE would be a Passive for Crit R% / Dodge with the appropiated amounts.

Edited by KratS, 09 December 2019 - 10:54 AM.