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#1 Kissbora

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 10:51 PM

Hi

I'm pretty new here.

And I'd like to discuss about the cash points.

As I heard the only way to obtain cash points is by using the gift option from the cash market and of course by donating.

I know there are events which gives you cash points but not all the players can win them and most of the time they cannot have any cash to spend and I think nobody likes to be poor.

 

I'm pretty sure that there are many people who cannot afford to donate from different reasons.

Many people are selling gold for cash points.

But they take a risk which is not convenient for anyone, they can be fooled by players:

The gold is traded via 'Trade' ;

The cash points are received from the gift section from the 'Cash';

The person will choose the item that he wants from the cash market;

The other will gift him the item.

 

That is how you receive cash in game, which is prett silly to me, in my opinion.

 

So here is what I want to suggest:

 

The potion NPC from Port Winds should have a bag item which contains a certain amount of cash points, the price will be discussed, to be balanced between gold and cash.

This can prevent the scamming system and also helping the players to understand better how the game works, because after you farmed gold and receive nothing instead of cash, it's a waste of time and people may leave the game.

 

This is just my opinion, if I'm wrong please tell me, maybe this was discussed already in another thread which I was unable to find maybe not, I just tried to help.

 

Thank you for reading this and have a good day! ;)


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#2 Fliederduft78

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:48 AM

Hi

I'm pretty new here.

And I'd like to discuss about the cash points.

As I heard the only way to obtain cash points is by using the gift option from the cash market and of course by donating.

I know there are events which gives you cash points but not all the players can win them and most of the time they cannot have any cash to spend and I think nobody likes to be poor.

 

I'm pretty sure that there are many people who cannot afford to donate from different reasons.

Many people are selling gold for cash points.

But they take a risk which is not convenient for anyone, they can be fooled by players:

The gold is traded via 'Trade' ;

The cash points are received from the gift section from the 'Cash';

The person will choose the item that he wants from the cash market;

The other will gift him the item.

 

That is how you receive cash in game, which is prett silly to me, in my opinion.

 

So here is what I want to suggest:

 

The potion NPC from Port Winds should have a bag item which contains a certain amount of cash points, the price will be discussed, to be balanced between gold and cash.

This can prevent the scamming system and also helping the players to understand better how the game works, because after you farmed gold and receive nothing instead of cash, it's a waste of time and people may leave the game.

 

This is just my opinion, if I'm wrong please tell me, maybe this was discussed already in another thread which I was unable to find maybe not, I just tried to help.

 

Thank you for reading this and have a good day! ;)

 

Pretty neat idea you got there.  :ok:

 

 

because after you farmed gold and receive nothing instead of cash, it's a waste of time and people may leave the game

 

 

^ In other words those people got scammed. And of course they are getting angry about that and yes some of the people that got scammed by others (sellers included) are so angry that they simply just leave the game and never come back.

 

We for sure need to find a solution for this.

 

 

 

That is how you receive cash in game, which is prett silly to me, in my opinion.

 

I agree. 

 

 

We for sure need to find a solution for this.


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#3 Miname

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:24 PM

Y'all must be new here.

 

Give up.


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#4 TheCristall

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:51 AM

That is how you receive cash in game, which is prett silly to me, in my opinion.

 

 

That is how you receive cash in game, which is prett silly to me, in my opinion.

the current gift system works, with a lot of trust, so if they are guild members or kind of friends the trust problem is minimized

 

but there are people running around in ds who dont have a big guild or friends who they trust and sell IM items

if those people, for example, want to get their armor to +20 because they dont want to die at elga, they have to load cash themselves or have to compromise the high risk to get scammed when trying to buy IM items from other people using the current gift system.

 

 

We for sure need to find a solution for this.

 

i agree, that there should be another way to buy and sell IM items because the current system points towards:

if you dont pay money yourself, you cannot get better in the game, which means pay2win

 

thats my opinion to the current non-trade-able cash items and yes im from EU so im used to another system


Edited by TheCristall, 05 August 2014 - 06:06 AM.

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#5 Multisaft

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:03 AM

 

That is how you receive cash in game, which is prett silly to me, in my opinion.

 

 

I agree, it's completely silly, risky and a lot of trouble/ trouble makers in game (scammers: sellers and buyers).

 

Not everyone is able to (or allowed to, directed at the younger people) spend real money all the time/at all.

But that's exactly what you bosses on here want us player to do : always and only spend real money - or go under in the game. That you do, without upgraded equipment.

 

 

This game at current state is 100% pay to win.  

 

 

 

The people that can't pay real money must use the IM sellers in game to get the equipment that is needed in late game (little earlier too). So they farm gold, find an IM seller and just hope they don't get scammed. This is like gambling, a new gameshow "get scammed or not" - russian roulette.

When you have no friends on here the chance of getting not scammed by IM seller is tiny. Out of 10 IM seller in game, 8 scam you.

 

The people that try to sell IM points to other people often get scammed too. They ask: what you want for your gold. They give it to you. They wait for buyer to trade them their gold. But get nothing. They get scammed very often.

Some of them just leave the game, after they paid with their real money and never see the gold. 

 

To make this trouble stop, make consumable items sellable in open market. 

With this it becomes less pay to win. You get more IM seller that spend money to top up and more (happy) players.

The risk is gone, all are happy. I feel your company can get more money this way.

 

We need a solution.


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#6 yurioj75

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:22 AM

I agree to all people who wrote before me in this thread (except of Miname: if we give up, we've already lost, maybe it's your ideology to just give up, but that's not mine).

I told ShazamO multiple times, that there has to be changed something relating the consumables, but he don't want to make consumables tradeable because that would create a pay 2 win environment (silly, I don't understand this argument, because this is exactly what we have now due to the lack of tradeable consumables).

 

Me, my wife and Fliederduft78 already spoke about the consumables that should be made tradeable to give people the chance to get them:

 

- Insurrance Scrolls

- Normal Petfood

- Small XP Potions (max. 2x, or 1.5x)

- Re-Include the Potions which was called "Best friends" in Europe and make them also tradeable

 

This would not be game-breaking and it would not make it pay 2 win, because these consumables only affect the single player.

 

What not should be made tradeable is:

 

- Jack's Bean 

- and other IM items which affects groups

 

why? because then we would create an environment where people e.g. in F7 only are accepted as party members, when they have Jack's Bean in their stock.

When this item is NOT tradeable, the possibility that this could happen is much lower.

 

But everytime we told the CM, he refuses to decide about it. 

First he wanted to speak about that with the producer, then he had the opinion that this would create a pay 2 win environment (I don't understand this point until now).

Maybe he don't understand us... maybe our english is not clear enough... maybe the Dragon Saga players are not important enough for the company.

ShazamO told me, that he knows what works in the community, but I doubt he don't know what works with this changing community nowadays.

 

Now I'm done... with all that stuff for the next time. I think more people should post their statements here instead of running around like a cow behind her flock.

 

Then we will see, whether the higher-ups care about us community or not.

Good luck for us.

 

 

 


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#7 ShazamO

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:17 AM

So I'm spoken with the producer, it seems that something like this is in the works.

Not all Item Mall Items will be converted to trade but something similar. We will try to keep you guys/gals updated.


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#8 yurioj75

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:34 AM

So I'm spoken with the producer, it seems that something like this is in the works.

Not all Item Mall Items will be converted to trade but something similar. We will try to keep you guys/gals updated.

 

What do you mean with "not all"? All in general or not all of the 4 mentioned above?

Anyway, thank you for your effort. This is a good news.

 

Thank you.


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#9 nullEssence

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:55 PM

Why just not do what gPotato and IAH did? Give players an option to sell stuff on the market for Cash points. This way the economy won't be ruined, the money will always flow somewhere.

People who donate and have a lot of Cash will be able to buy items from the market, while people who can't afford donating will have access to crucial stuff like Insurrence Scrolls and other goodies. 

This way the game won't be pay to win, as everything is obtainable by everyone. 

I think this is the healthiest cash system possible. And I heavily suggest to implement it.

 

If someone can list me any negatives of this system, I'll be glad to listen.


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#10 Fliederduft78

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:09 PM

Why just not do what gPotato and IAH did? Give players an option to sell stuff on the market for Cash points. This way the economy won't be ruined, the money will always flow somewhere.
People who donate and have a lot of Cash will be able to buy items from the market, while people who can't afford donating will have access to crucial stuff like Insurrence Scrolls and other goodies.
This way the game won't be pay to win, as everything is obtainable by everyone.
I think this is the healthiest cash system possible. And I heavily suggest to implement it.

If someone can list me any negatives of this system, I'll be glad to listen.



Sorry I didn't get that.
You are reffering to gpotato and sea.
On both Systems it was possible to purchase stuff for IM points in the item mall and to put that stuff in open market for selling it to other players in Gold. The other players were able to purchase the IM stuff by just and only using their Gold in open market.
Are you talking about this System being implemented on here too?
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#11 nullEssence

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 04:25 AM

Sorry I didn't get that.
You are reffering to gpotato and sea.
On both Systems it was possible to purchase stuff for IM points in the item mall and to put that stuff in open market for selling it to other players in Gold. The other players were able to purchase the IM stuff by just and only using their Gold in open market.
Are you talking about this System being implemented on here too?

 

No, sorry I wasn't clear enough.

On those two servers you could sell items for IM Points. And it seems people here specifically removed it. Because when you try to register an item in the market, take a good look. There is a checkbox titled "Gold Sale". Why would there be a checkbox if it's the only option? On the IAH and gPotato, right next to that, there was a "Cash" option, which allowed you to put the price in Cash Points (IM points here). 

 

But anyway,

Let's say Person A can't afford to buy IM points. So Person A registers a stack of Soul on the market with the price of 1 IM point per Soul (999 IM points for the whole stack). Now a Person B, who has quite a lot of IM points needs Souls; he goes to the Market and buys Souls from Person A. 

Now Person A has obtained IM points without having to spend real money, and by repeating this quite a few times he can reach that +20 Weapon, eventually. By having a player who doesn't pay real money have access to "gameplay affecting" stuff like Insurrence Scrolls, Experience Potions and other stuff like that, the game won't be labeled as "pay to win".

 

And if you're worried that this "isn't fair" to people who buy IM Points for real money, they now have access to a community-based pool of items to choose from. If someone is lazy enough to not want to grind for a specific set or something, someone on the market might be selling it for IM points; so they buy IM points with real money and spend it on a set. 


Edited by nullEssence, 06 August 2014 - 04:33 AM.

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#12 Fliederduft78

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 04:54 AM

Aaah, now I understand.

 

This system was once implemented on IAH, pure IAH. And it didn't work on there. The people only sold IM items to other people for IM points (costume parts, insurance scrolls, IM weapons, IM hair, faces etc).

I know, cause I once was there. 

 

The people without access to IM weren't able to get a single cash (IM) item out of the open market. Never.

I was one of them.

 

This system you are talking about is actually 150% pay to win.

But not caused by the system itself, but by the people using it. (people tend to grab as much IM points as they are able too, and even if that means they end up with no gold but IM points. Every single thing on the market will sold for IM currency. This is how people work, even minor things like for example armor dust. People will try to get as much IM points in their hands as possible. This would create a future in which every single thing in the open market will be sould by only IM currency. People who don't have cash will end up with.......nothing. They won't be able to buy anything anymore. This is what happened at IAH (souls/dusts, even normal gear)- btw IAH had gold bag  items sold at their item mall Which gave you an amount of gold. You basically purchased gold overthere - a system I never liked and never will)

 

This would be a nono for me 120%, Cause this would make the 100% pay to win on here raise up to 150% pay to win or even more. 

 

(In a bright and pink world this system would work out - but the world we live in is neither bright nor pink....sadly. Even though I see your point. This isn't going to work out.)

 

 

Back to Gpotato

 

There never ever was a system like this implemented. All the consumable items on there were purchasable by just and only using gold in open market. And for any other IM item this was the same (costumes, hairs, whatever)

 

Just and only.

 

On all three European (gpotato) servers this was the same.

You never were able to sell stuff for cash points in open market. Never ever. 

IM purchasers purchased things (costumes, exp potions, hair, faces, pet food, insurance scrolls) in the cash shop (item mall). And  did put those in the open market for gold. 

One insurance scroll over there (the blue one) did cost around 120 Gold. NO cash or cash currency involved.

 

Believe me I Know.  :ok:

 

There was a time the gpotato crew was sitting around a table and discussing if or if not to implement the cash system from IAH.

After talking to a few....."users".......this got completely denied. It never came to the EU servers.

I was one of that "users"......

 

And I actually don't want this system over here. I saw what happened at IAH with my very own eyes. I saw the bad things.

And I personally for sure never ever want a system like this implemented on here.

 


Edited by Fliederduft78, 06 August 2014 - 05:10 AM.

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#13 TheCristall

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 05:38 AM

No, sorry I wasn't clear enough.

On those two servers you could sell items for IM Points. And it seems people here specifically removed it. Because when you try to register an item in the market, take a good look. There is a checkbox titled "Gold Sale". Why would there be a checkbox if it's the only option? On the IAH and gPotato, right next to that, there was a "Cash" option, which allowed you to put the price in Cash Points (IM points here).

 

dont think that will make the pay2win better in any kind, all players would sell their stuff for IM points only and nothing would be sold for gold anymore, so the open market would be useless for players without IM
 


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#14 nullEssence

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 06:22 AM

I've played on IAH for years and I'll just say that that wasn't the scenario. It worked pretty well. 

It was well balanced, as far as I remember. Gold was still a very valuable resource. You could find items on the market for gold as well as IM. 

IM was in no way overwhelming in market. 

 

But I won't defend or push this concept any further. 


Edited by nullEssence, 06 August 2014 - 06:24 AM.

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#15 TheCristall

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 04:32 AM

So I'm spoken with the producer, it seems that something like this is in the works.

Not all Item Mall Items will be converted to trade but something similar. We will try to keep you guys/gals updated.

 

 

any news you can tell us so far ?


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#16 Fliederduft78

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:06 AM

I would love to see a little "information" on how things are going on this matter  as well.   :ok:

Would be nice. 


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#17 GetSumDimsum

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 04:51 AM

any update on this matter? 


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#18 Popcorn

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 10:08 AM

No updates so far. I will keep you informed.

 


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#19 meonggg

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 07:01 PM

i agreed to make insu scrool sellable in market 


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