75 replies to this topic

[aoi911]

sound nice :3, may be i will give my SM skill detection now, 'cause now even my sin can't farm HGP these days p_p 

[SETSUNAf6w]

An SP drain wouldn't do much since SP pots can be macro'd and it's they're not that expensive.

 

A duration limit + cooldown similar to Ymir Child could balance things up, you would inevitably unhide in hostile areas farming pilarnium and you couldn't just endlessly hide in PvP maps.

 

As for the 2x damage everyone should need to proc for that, hiding isn't what I would call a proc.

[M00KIE]

On the topic of farming, i've run into a lot of people channel hopping to farm gold in Road of Blessed......do these people seriously think they are going faster by taking the time to reload the ui on a different channel? The spawn time on the nodes is incredibly short, so anyone without hide/exceed/shadow form, all maxed, will not be able to keep up with the closest half dozen or so.

[AndruMdz]

i really dont know whats the problem on use hide for farm i mean i dont think that "hide" have to be limited to not farm in that state cause i dont have a sin to do that and yeah maybe with one the things will be a little bit fast but there more ways to farm i normally farm that kind of material with my knight i just found the way to do that let them use "hide" if they want we all are able to level up a thief and be a sin cause like i read here there is no level limit to do that. maybe i will make one just to farm with him and use it like and storage for material and not have my bag and storage so full e.e/

[chronojxf007]

What made you think that this is a fair game?

 

Yes, there are enough dye-/ drop-rate hackers, mats/dna botters and of course those who glitch bosses to get an advantage. There were also other things like duped items, tradeable colo gear, premade Jehoon fights, Embus abusal, WoE entrance camping, etc. The "respect" seems to be pretty low.

__________________

 

To solve the "invisible gathering" issue would be rather easy... make players visible. Hide still has other uses and it would be 'fair' for everyone.

 

A way to balance Hide in a more general way would be to remove the speed bonus. Then, deactivating hide would make perfect sense again, because otherwise it would be hard to chase players. In addition, AoE skills would be more likely to reveal hidden players, and that skill needs better counters. In regard of farming, a 'normal' character might turn out to be faster (or at least not much slower) killing monsters and then gather mats instead.

 

A bit more preferrrable would be to limit the duration of that skill and/or increasing the cooldown. That skill should then be active only for half the time. Hiding Exceed // Camouflage Mastery might then increase the duration again (vigor to reduce the cooldown).

 

Another way to limit the duration would be by adding a high SP drain (see RO1 Cloaking).

 

 

Off topic but x2 damage out of hiding is ridiculous

That make sin, rogue, ranger big advantage in pvp & woe

This game is not like RO1 where you can multi client to have a soul master follow you

 

Suggestions:

 

Remove x2 damage effect

Hiding cost mana per second

Sell detect skill scroll (Blood Point)

 

 

An SP drain wouldn't do much since SP pots can be macro'd and it's they're not that expensive.

 

A duration limit + cooldown similar to Ymir Child could balance things up, you would inevitably unhide in hostile areas farming pilarnium and you couldn't just endlessly hide in PvP maps.

 

As for the 2x damage everyone should need to proc for that, hiding isn't what I would call a proc.

Asking for nerfs to Hide skill of Hide classes? It's been months devs saw that Thief classes are still weak that's why they put penetration in Assassins and revert back the original capability of Unstable Doping from Rogues. Rangers are already nerfed well before so no need nerfing their skill "Camouflage" "Hide = Attack skill" is like a "sneak attack" that's why it is preferred to be an attack skill x2 dmg while in hide. That nerf request is also asking for nerfs to other class 

 

"Hide + unhides to gather mats?" that's just hilarious   no Hide class likes to blow their cover while in a mission    and SP drain while hide? Quiet waste of time again w/ that   

Hiding Skill - Abused? It is already a part of Hide class using Hide/Camouflage since day 1 

 

Hard to farm pillarnium? Don't be lazy, Go make a Hide class. If someone messed w/ you, throw a bread to their mouth and say "Suck that up you snickers"   

Besides, we all still waiting for that total rebalance of chars 

Edited by chronojxf007, 02 October 2014 - 04:59 PM.

[angelsnare]

Asking for nerfs to Hide skill of Hide classes? It's been months devs saw that Thief classes are still weak that's why they put penetration in Assassins and revert back the original capability of Unstable Doping from Rogues. Rangers are already nerfed well before so no need nerfing their skill "Camouflage" "Hide = Attack skill" is like a "sneak attack" that's why it is preferred to be an attack skill x2 dmg while in hide. That nerf request is also asking for nerfs to other class 

 

"Hide + unhides to gather mats?" that's just hilarious   no Hide class likes to blow their cover while in a mission    and SP drain while hide? Quiet waste of time again w/ that   

Hiding Skill - Abused? It is already a part of Hide class using Hide/Camouflage since day 1 

 

Hard to farm pillarnium? Don't be lazy, Go make a Hide class. If someone messed w/ you, throw a bread to their mouth and say "Suck that up you snickers"   

Besides, we all still waiting for that total rebalance of chars 

 

I don't know if you exactly get my point.  I know it's already a part of a thief's skill tree since Day 1 BUT most thief classes are abusing the Hide skill because they're doing "ninja-looting"; that is, they know a player is killing a mob in order to gather the pillarniums and yet they sneaked in and harvest it themselves. It's just wrong, yknow? Sorry if I can't explain well since English is not my main language. 

 

Also, please don't say "dont be lazy" in farming pillarniums. I've been farming nonstop and have completed my Osi set without buying anything (Thanks Tifa!). Fact is, it's not that I'm lazy, I just don't WANT to create another class. I leveled up my character to ML20 in order to farm materials on an ML20 map. 

 

@Greven

 

I don't know, since the game is hosted outside our country, I was thinking better security and, well, no hacks lol. I also agree to your suggestion to make the players visible while gathering. That way we can see who is doing the ninja-thing. Actually, all your suggestions are nice. 

[HikariKouka]

Asking for nerfs to Hide skill of Hide classes? It's been months devs saw that Thief classes are still weak that's why they put penetration in Assassins and revert back the original capability of Unstable Doping from Rogues. Rangers are already nerfed well before so no need nerfing their skill "Camouflage" "Hide = Attack skill" is like a "sneak attack" that's why it is preferred to be an attack skill x2 dmg while in hide. That nerf request is also asking for nerfs to other class 

 

"Hide + unhides to gather mats?" that's just hilarious   no Hide class likes to blow their cover while in a mission    and SP drain while hide? Quiet waste of time again w/ that   

Hiding Skill - Abused? It is already a part of Hide class using Hide/Camouflage since day 1 

 

Hard to farm pillarnium? Don't be lazy, Go make a Hide class. If someone messed w/ you, throw a bread to their mouth and say "Suck that up you snickers"   

Besides, we all still waiting for that total rebalance of chars 

 

Nerf other classes? WTF dude? Hide to farm pillarnium or walk through a dungeon super fast and farm rare DNA since day 1. Hide classes got a big advantage since day 1. And they should be nerf! All hide classes should be glad that they still got hide skill.

Let's me guess, you're a rogue? 

 

x2 damage while in hide is ridiculous since sin/rogue/archer got high dps & high crit rate already.

Don't you dare to say they are weak in defense nowaday. With ridiculous refine formular & master level gear. Defense is not a problem.

The problem is : Who crit first win the battle.

There is no point give them x2 damage while they being invisible & being safe in the shadow.

 

And yea SP drain like 200 per second should be enough 

Edited by HikariKouka, 02 October 2014 - 07:19 PM.

[chronojxf007]

HikariKouka   I'm glad I'm famous now   
We all know it is rude that, [ they're doing "ninja-looting"; that is, they know a player is killing a mob in order to gather the pillarniums and yet they sneaked in and harvest it themselves. ] that's why a Hiding char is essential in farming Pillarniums right now, We all people trying not to wasting time also [use a class w/o Hide skill ]  Seriously it is a matter of Hide,Seek and Farm @Pillarniums and Gold Ores. Hide skill are more abused by botters and macroers. I would suggest the "Presence radius" and "Presence meter" for Hide classes and Monsters/Opponents (lazy to describe)
For suggestions on nerfs to Hide skill, well goodluck to you guys   (seriosly I'm the type of player who wants minimal and equal balance of gameplay to the game)
It is hard to earn respect from our presence to other people farming pillarniums also; it is a "first come per serve" on farming pillarnium nowadays + imagine the population of iRO2 right now, Desperation from people always comes out.

Edited by chronojxf007, 02 October 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[TifaValentine]

Hide isnt what needs to be "nerfed". Making players visible WHEN gathering/mining seems more reasonable. However, you cant also nerf hide speed either. You forget the passives from thief and sin/rogue skill trees that increase speed when moving, those would need to be modified too. You also forget rangers also have this. Sins/rogues arent the only stealth classes I had max camo on my ranger before, as well as camo mastery, thus he could hide and farm while still moving relatively fast. If you nerf hide for thief class, youd have to nerf for rangers too? Don't think they'd approve yet another nerf to them. Same goes for the "x2 dmg out of hide", which, btw, you guys dont realize it only happens once in a battle, until the person is out of combat mode? And it doesnt affect -all- skills anyways. So think before asking for nerfs indiscriminately; see the whole picture instead of just one class/situation.It would be for worse, and would require much more work from devs. I rather let them focus on general balance, than further focus on just one,two classes and keep messing with them. I, too, seek for balance,for everyone, not a "class of the month" thing. I do agree with the uncloaking during gather/mine actions; it wouldn't affect the class perfomance itself and wouldn't require hard work from devs either. And I play an assassin myself, but i still respect other classes.

I already helped angelsnare with spots/alternatives to farm pillarnium, and theres always been alternatives for those wanting to gather/farm other mats (ores/herbs) without hide.

I'd prefer if we keep this topic about those alternatives or what could be done to prevent botters/rude people, than to discuss about nerfing a class. There's other threads for that, and it may turn this one into a flamefest and battlefield of classes .__.'

[HikariKouka]

Hide isnt what needs to be "nerfed". Making players visible WHEN gathering/mining seems more reasonable. However, you cant also nerf hide speed either. You forget the passives from thief and sin/rogue skill trees that increase speed when moving, those would need to be modified too. You also forget rangers also have this. Sins/rogues arent the only stealth classes I had max camo on my ranger before, as well as camo mastery, thus he could hide and farm while still moving relatively fast. If you nerf hide for thief class, youd have to nerf for rangers too? Don't think they'd approve yet another nerf to them. Same goes for the "x2 dmg out of hide", which, btw, you guys dont realize it only happens once in a battle, until the person is out of combat mode? And it doesnt affect -all- skills anyways. So think before asking for nerfs indiscriminately; see the whole picture instead of just one class/situation.It would be for worse, and would require much more work from devs. I rather let them focus on general balance, than further focus on just one,two classes and keep messing with them. I, too, seek for balance,for everyone, not a "class of the month" thing. I do agree with the uncloaking during gather/mine actions; it wouldn't affect the class perfomance itself and wouldn't require hard work from devs either. And I play an assassin myself, but i still respect other classes.

I already helped angelsnare with spots/alternatives to farm pillarnium, and theres always been alternatives for those wanting to gather/farm other mats (ores/herbs) without hide.

I'd prefer if we keep this topic about those alternatives or what could be done to prevent botters/rude people, than to discuss about nerfing a class. There's other threads for that, and it may turn this one into a flamefest and battlefield of classes .__.'

 

Actually I'm not asking for nerfs indiscriminately.

Everyone know in the begining thief & ranger got big advantage in this game. Hide to walk through dungeon or run super fast to gather herb & mining gold. That made them very strong in zeny making at the 1st place.

Like you said it's a unique of thief & ranger class. I agree since it just effected PvE side.

 

BUT on PvP side:

 

Double damage while in hiding state is really anoying with broken stats & gears nowaday.

One hit out of hide and they already take down half of the target's HP or even more is ridiculous.

And other classes can't do anything to attack them while they're hiding (except SM spam detect skill). It's not fair when hide classes always get the element of surprise & deal tons of damage you know?

 

"In WoE they can do it once" and result?

The target died and the killer immediately fade away to find next target, right?

[angelsnare]

I've got no comments on the pvp side. I think not nerfing hide is pretty reasonable when it comes to pvp, since that's what assassins/rogues are for, right? Conceal-Kill-Hide again. I can maybe just suggest improvement on the SM detection skill rather than nerfing x2 damage of assassin.

 

Moreover, I just want solutions to farming better for those who are not using thief class.

 

EDIT:

 

Additional~ I also like Arbalist's idea about not letting combat mode break gathering. 

Edited by angelsnare, 02 October 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[HikariKouka]

I've got no comments on the pvp side. I think not nerfing hide is pretty reasonable when it comes to pvp, since that's what assassins/rogues are for, right? Conceal-Kill-Hide again. I can maybe just suggest improvement on the SM detection skill rather than nerfing x2 damage of assassin.

 

Moreover, I just want solutions to farming better for those who are not using thief class.

 

EDIT:

 

Additional~ I also like Arbalist's idea about not letting combat mode break gathering. 

 

Conceal - Kill - Hide is good when they were squishy.

But now they're tanky as hell you know 

Or make everyone can detect by sell detect scroll in BP shop 

Edited by HikariKouka, 02 October 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[angelsnare]

They're quite tanky, yes. That's why I suggested making improvements instead on SM's detection skill (Reduce CD / make it like RO1's Ruwach skill, etc IDK lol) or yes, selling detection scrolls. It will be unfair for the thief class in pvp if ever x2 damage is nerfed. It is the only skill that makes them really shine.

[Telovi]

Are hiding skills abused? Yes. 

Is hiding a bad design? Yes.

Should it be revoked? Yes.

Would that happen? Nay.

Will stressing help? Yay. 

[Nereida]

Additional~ I also like Arbalist's idea about not letting combat mode break gathering. 

 

Oh, I think I missed that one.

That would be lovely, but please make it happen before nerfing hidden gathering.
 

[angelsnare]

If Arbalist's idea will be implemented, then there's no need to nerf/change hiding while gathering    Hopefully, it will be implemented! 

[Nereida]

Well, harrassing other players is still something to fix.

[TifaValentine]

I'm sorry for going offtopic here. I'll keep it on spoilers since this is mainly directed as a response to Hikari, and he/she is free to reply and continue the conversation with me on PMs , so that we leave this thread on topic ^^

(warning, wall of text D: )

Spoiler

Actually I'm not asking for nerfs indiscriminately.

Everyone know in the begining thief & ranger got big advantage in this game. Hide to walk through dungeon or run super fast to gather herb & mining gold. That made them very strong in zeny making at the 1st place.

Like you said it's a unique of thief & ranger class. I agree since it just effected PvE side.

 

BUT on PvP side:

 

Double damage while in hiding state is really anoying with broken stats & gears nowaday.

One hit out of hide and they already take down half of the target's HP or even more is ridiculous.

And other classes can't do anything to attack them while they're hiding (except SM spam detect skill). It's not fair when hide classes always get the element of surprise & deal tons of damage you know?

 

"In WoE they can do it once" and result?

The target died and the killer immediately fade away to find next target, right?

 

I'm guessing you didn't really read my post no? I understand you're frustrated at the unbalance, but you're not really judging things from a whole picture. This isnt about individual players/classes. You can't judge an entire classes based on your own experiences alone. I'll point out some things:

■ "Everyone know in the begining thief & ranger got big advantage in this game" - First off, Rangers start as archers, without "hide" skill. They can learn camo upon turning into Rangers, one of the advanced classes. Thieves, however, do start with Hide, altho slow. This isn't really so big of an issue for starters; my swordie was perfectly fine in early dungeons and so were my other non-stealth alts. Besides, those are meant to be done in party (if you talk about starting dungeons). As for zeny making... what about those classes with strong AoEs? Assassins and rogues lack strong area skills, at least assassins mainly. Rangers do have strong aoes, but they sacrifice skill points into it which they may have preferred in single dps skills. AoE skills do help in farming for zeny making too. And as for gatherin, there ARE safe spots too. Just gotta ask and learn of them. Hiding isnt the only thing you can use for zeny making

 

■ PvP side; I believe you got a few concepts wrong. It is not the "hide" skill whats causing this "oneshot from hide" on players. Its the dmg modifier of the dps skill used. I believe you're talking, in this case, about Cross Impact (thief skill). The skill itself is broken (shouldn't be so op); this has been reported anyways. It's not players fault if Gravity keeps breaking things. As for other "strong" skills being used from hide, if you refer to the finisher moves (such as Moonlight Dance from rogue and Shadow Explosion from assassins), those require combo points which vanish soon as you use hide. There's the proc from mastery combo, yes, but that's a proc, not a permanent/fixed thing. Rangers have few skills truly affected by a "2x out of hide", and they're doing less dmg at the moment, than they should be.

 

■ "Double damage while in hiding state is really anoying with broken stats & gears nowaday." Sweetie, most skills are broken if you put gear/stats factor into consideration nowadays. Have you seen how strong a Warrior's Rage Strike can hit or even just their Bash? And a Monk's Gfist? If we consider gear/stats/etc, differences will always be abysmal, regardless of class. I may have a somewhat decent geared assassin, but a way better geared and more experienced player of other class will still beat my arse I agree with the broken things (buffed classes, nerfed classes, broken classes,etc), but that's something we ALL have complained about. It's not just "one" class alone.

 

■ Others classes can't do anything? How about AoEs? It takes a stealther out of hide and puts them in battle mode. It does work in places such as Colo and even WoE you know? (I've hated that in there ) In duels it is an advantage, but so far the people I've met and seen dueling, stealth classes don't use hide at the beginning of a duel, for respect to the other (unless the other person is fine with you starting on hide). Perhaps it's something that few people do? Only Rogues can really Hide in middle of a combat, but that IS what their class is meant to do after all (Smoke Bomb skill). And as I said before, cross impact has been too buffed and seems broken atm. The finisher moves, though, are meant to be strong. 

 

■ Element of surprise IS part of these classes playstyle. It's like saying Warriors shouldn't be so tanky, or crecentias shouldn't have so many dots/debuffs. One must learn to counterattack this. PvP isn't balanced at all right now anyways, but we all know this already, its not new. It's not player's fault. No point in beating a dead horse.

 

All in all.. it can be summed up into: "Hide isnt what needs to be nerfed/removed. Its the skill dmg modifiers that need to be fixed and balanced. We can't ask for a class to change completely their playstyle simply because they got too buffed up or others have been nerfed. I wouldn't ask for priests to be completely nerfed just because they got so buffed since many patches ago. I'd ask for classes and formulas to be balanced/adjusted fairly."

 

On topic: Harassing is always bad and should be reported. I approve of Arbalist's idea, and the idea of unhide when gathering, those seem more reasonable. This thread is a complaint about unfairness in Gathering after all. Not about uses of Hide on PvP

 

Edited by TifaValentine, 03 October 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[M00KIE]

Hiding is obviously abused, yes, but that does not mean the game's mechanics need a lot of change. I would still be happy if my characters had a timed hide, but it would not be good to remove the buff to gather. And making them visible by players when farming would only result in SMs abusing detection by spamming it on every farmer they see, so it would only work if detection only worked in PVP against players. In my experience there are equally as many farmers being disrespectful who aren't hiding classes as one who are, anyway. My point is that abusers are in every class and not limited in farming to sins, rogues, and rangers.

For those who don't want to make one, that is their choice. It does not take long to make a character and level hide to the point where your speed is above normal run speed. But, if a change were to be made, I would suggest that yes, hiding is timed to 30min or an hour. It also is player visible when farming or PVP (like in a party). In PVP the hide damage bonus is reduced to 50% increase instead of 2x. Lastly, soulmakers cannot use detection on a player outside of PVP. Then it would simply be a matter of reporting abusers to support with screenshots/vid captures.

[babiddy]

Or you guys can just create hiding class characters to farm materials. What i do suggest is for certain monsters to detect characters in hide.

[Greven79]

Wow. So many answers... this seems to be a delicate matter.
 
In regard of Hide // Camouflage, there are three balancing aspects:

• focus on the farming issues
• concentrate on botting/macroing
• address the overall skill inbalance

Changes in either method could influence the others. I.e. fixing the farming issues can affect the overall balance of the skill and vice versa.
 
Shortcut:

Spoiler

As always, there's a shortcut... babiddy mentioned it: "you guys can just create hiding class characters". Since balance is always linked to comparing multiple things, just make sure, you're on the winning side. The inbalance still exists, but it doesn't bother you anymore. F.e. if you think Warriors, Assassins or Priests are overpowered... just play one. If everyone follows this simple guideline, noone will be disadvantaged... problem fixed!

Farming

Spoiler

A bit more purposeful approach: analyse the situation first.
In regard of farming, hiding classes benefit from two main advantages:

•  
• Monsters don't delay the farming process
• Players with an invisible characters can see other visible characters but not vice versa
  This makes it easy to foretell where a player will gather next

Once you've analysed the situation, you can counter that more or less directly. So everything that equals the farming performance between classes would be valid:

• make visible characters unaffected by monsters (point 1)
• invisible characters attacked by monsters somehow (point 1)
• invisible characters detectable by other players (point 2)

Arbalist and other players concentrated on these points and there are many more options ideas. You could implement footprints to make players semi-targetable, you could make monsters flee or ignore you instead, if your character level exceeds theirs. And - as babiddy wrote - you could give some monsters the "scent", "tremorsense" or "track" specialty that allows them to detect & attack invisible foes nevertheless.
 
I more or less ignored these options, because I'd prefer to preserve the 'invisibility' in it's very nature. I'd rather add more drawbacks to reduce the impact. Looking at it in a more general view, it's about the "return of investment". Players invest their time and might notice that they have a lower outcome than other players. So possible options are:

• limit the usage of hide (duration, cooldown, cost) => limits avg. advantage (general)
  a rare // occational inbalance isn't severe anymore
• delay the invisible characters by other means (slow, longer gathering, etc.) (general)

Limiting the duration f.e. wouldn't stop Assassins from farming that way, but there will be a time when Hide is on cooldown and that limits the effectiveness of that skill. And the same is true, if you keep the slow effect.
 

However, you cant also nerf hide speed either. You forget the passives from thief and sin/rogue skill trees that increase speed when moving, those would need to be modified too. You also forget rangers also have this. Sins/rogues arent the only stealth classes

 
IMO it's not about "can" or "can't". It's about the severity level of the nerf. There's no other "thief" passive that increases movement speed and both Hide Exceed and Shadow Form on their own don't negate the 40% speed debuff of Hide.
 
Therefore, assassins would have to spend more skill points and still wouldn't achieve the same speed. The Ranger could only temporarily avoid the speed debuff, which is then another form of a "duration" nerf. And the Rogue would have no option at all.
 
The speed debuff above f.e. can only be countered by lvl25+ skills, which also limits the effectiveness of abusal... which brings me to the next point:

Botting/Macroing

Spoiler

One major issue in the game is abusal . You can't stop that completely, but a permanental invisibility makes it rather easy. So you better find some countermeassures.
 

An SP drain wouldn't do much since SP pots can be macro'd and it's they're not that expensive.

 
The SP drain is especially designed to preserve the option for a extended invisibility. The intent of the SP cost (HikariKouka brought 200 into this discussion) is to make it impossible for low-level characters to hide indefinitely. It also adds an additional cost for high-level characters as well.

 

The casting cost wouldn't be unfair at all, regardless of any other changes. Whereas a normal visual character might "chain-cast" AoE skills, an invisible character would have to "chain-cast" hide instead.

 

Another way to stop the low-level hide abusal would be to add a duration and a cooldown that doesn't care about battle end. The advantage is that only maxed-out and highly specialized characters might have enough vigor to create an indefinite invisibility. You can then compare Hide with other temporal skills like Berserk, Archangel, etc.

Overall inbalances

Spoiler

Although this isn't a class discussion (Hide effect 3 different classes), the changes mentioned above also affect the overall balance of the skill. So if you're looking for options to fix that, it's not that clever to exclude anything that could affect that skill in other occations as well....

 

Hide isnt what needs to be "nerfed".[...] Same goes for the "x2 dmg out of hide", which, btw, you guys dont realize it only happens once in a battle, until the person is out of combat mode? And it doesnt affect -all- skills anyways.

 

This is kind of funny. Although the statement is true that Hide can be used only once per battle, the conclusion might still be wrong. It depends whether a single attack out of hide already EQUALS a battle... i.e. kills your target. Then, it's rather advisable to nerf once-per-battle skills.

 

Otherwise we could remove the combo / rage / beast / pyro requirements as well. The affected skills already have cooldown as a limitation. So the only purpose behind the extra requirement is to prevent that these skills are used first.

 

The indefinite duration of Hide, the x2 damage boost and powerful attack skills (Cross Impact & Shadow Strike) lead this ad absurdum.

 

I won't get into more details here, but if I look at the suggestions made by some Rogues, a lack of speed seems to be a significant limitation. Ergo: If you replace the speed bonus on Hide, Camouflage, Hide Exceed and Camouflage Mastery, you might "kill two birds with one stone".

 

Random side notes:

Spoiler

■ PvP side; I believe you got a few concepts wrong. It is not the "hide" skill whats causing this "oneshot from hide" on players. Its the dmg modifier of the dps skill used

 

Nope. It's the total damage that matters. Both the normal skill damage and the damage bonus of Hide are "guilty" of one-shotting people. So it's important to look at the parts seperately and the sum. F.e. you could ask why Hide doesn't just grant an automatic critical hit rather than doubling the damage.

 

■ "Double damage while in hiding state is really anoying with broken stats & gears nowaday." Sweetie, most skills are broken if you put gear/stats factor into consideration nowadays. Have you seen how strong a Warrior's Rage Strike can hit or even just their Bash? And a Monk's Gfist?

 

The Rage Strike isn't broken by any means, it's the Battle Tactics critical damage that makes it that bad. So you have a perfect example how the attack skill can be balanced, but the situational boost breaks it.

 

A monk's G-Fist isn't broken either. The damage is still lower than a critical JT with active water crest or a critical Ray of Genesis. But you can see how a cooldown and a "inner spirit" requirement can keep a skill in check.

 

■ Others classes can't do anything? How about AoEs? It takes a stealther out of hide and puts them in battle mode. It does work in places such as Colo and even WoE you know?

 

Have you tested to use AoEs as a counter against hide classes? The option to stack the speed bonuses makes it a VERY unlikely that AoEs hit a "stealther". This is quite a good example how a reduced speed during hide could limit the skill occationally without eliminating the original intention.

 

It's been months devs saw that Thief classes are still weak that's why they put penetration in Assassins and revert back the original capability of Unstable Doping from Rogues.

 

Just because the devs added amror penetration doesn't mean that the Assassins / Rogues were "weak" and deserved the push. Or do you think that the Priests deserved the bible?

Edited by Greven79, 06 October 2014 - 12:33 PM.

[TifaValentine]

In order to prevent thread derailing, I'll be pming you Greven, to reply to your post!~

[Aoshiki]

Funny enough my sister said something kind of true, why they don't make a minimun level requirement for farming pillarniun. since most of the stealth classes farming are thieves... if they make a minimun lvl farming requirement for pillarnium it will put people on spot since leveling will be required.

[Telovi]

Wow. So many answers... this seems to be a delicate matter.

 

The thread title doesn't help. 

[angelsnare]

  Is anything wrong with the title? Sorry if I'm slow.