73 replies to this topic

[Bendersmom]

I understand the idea of making things tougher, and I am all for that.  But right now the Queen in HOO kicks your ass in a few hits.  People now are going through until they see if it is queen or king.  If queen they just log out and try again for king. Really good dungeon teams are really having a very hard time with HOO queen and SOD.  And random groups are really in trouble, in dungeons now.  If you don't have a strong team with a game plan you are done.  And non-premium players are frustrated without the energy.  

 

Please look at the Queen and maybe the SOD boss.  

[UziDude]

I'm reposting this here, because I was told the ROSE International forum is a bit slower than here....

 

Well, I just went and did my first Halls of Oblivion since the update, where I got a Queen.  I had done a few where Kings had spawned, but this was my first Queen.  Kings were tougher, but not real bad IMHO.

First, it was a full team of 5, people that had done many HoO's and had decent gear and builds.  Me on my clerc, a scout, a knight, and I don't recall the fourth  and fifth chars.  I believe we were all 230.  I have max charm buffs, and for tank gear I wear a full Brave set (15) with Oro Jewelry with PO7's, and the defense costume, Ancient Royal.  My defense is about 6.8K, I have 4 fires, and 6 heals, including the unique and IM heals.  We went along without a hitch all the way to the last room.  Since we had a Queen, we decided to lure and kill ALL mobs before taking her on.  Again, all was fine up to this point.  Taking on the Queen brought a HUGE surprise to all of us.  She repeatedly killed 2 members of the group so fast all my heals could not keep them alive PERIOD!  We had to stop and regroup, rebuff, twice.  We had to walk everyone through the strategy to make sure we all did what most of us were used to.  We had to lure her to our fires, and kill her.  The difficulty level with the enhanced damage/defense/HP that she has, makes the dungeon all but impossible unless you have a well experienced group, and a good plan, or are just willing to die and regroup multiple times.  The amount of time it takes to do that, makes a dungeon with a queen, too undesirable.

I had heard lately that people were doing dungeons with random players, and if they got a king fine.  If they got a queen, they'd just DC at that point and start over.  The difficulty level with inexperienced or unorganized groups was just not worth the payoff anymore.  This is obviously a big problem if you are not premium, as you cannot do near as many dungeons successfully.  This is making the number of people doing HoO dwindle fast lately.  If it remains this way, Premium Service no longer provides any benefit for me personally.  I only get it for the game energy at this point, and now, with near nobody to dungeon with, it just doesn't make any sense to pay the cost for myself.

Any others out there finding this to be a problem in doing HoO?

I know there was a good reason for enhancing many of the monsters with all the new damage being dealt out by players with these new gems and skills.  But I think in some areas such as this, perhaps it may be a bit too much added damage.  I mean after all, why give us let's say for example. 10% more damage dealt, just to in turn add 10% more defense/HP/whatever to the mobs we are hunting?  I don't know the exact numbers, but obviously completeing this particular dungeon has become considerably more difficult.  Perhaps the Dev's can look at this and scale it back a bit and get it a bit more manageable. 

I haven't done SoD since this last update to their damage.  Oh LORD, do I want to?  O.o

[Bendersmom]

Ok, SOD is not really worse then it was.  Takes a bit longer to kill but not too bad.  But the queen in HOO is really tough.  The rate of AOEs and strength of her AOEs is crazy hard.

[jerremy]

What I was most surprised by against queen was how much enhance damage she had. I've faced her a few times already now with my knight, and man is she tough.

Anyway, knights are currently slightly bugged and have 100% PvM damage reduction (will be fixed this or next week). So all the damage that gets dealt to you is either enhance damage or crit damage, but since mobs rarely crit it was all enhance damage. My knight still took 4k damage attacks.

[Rayun]

It has been more than once now when i saw people joining HoO and quitting right after they see its queen.

HoO supermob should not be tougher than SoD one IMHO...

[asuboy]

I'm reposting this here, because I was told the ROSE International forum is a bit slower than here....

Well, I just went and did my first Halls of Oblivion since the update, where I got a Queen. I had done a few where Kings had spawned, but this was my first Queen. Kings were tougher, but not real bad IMHO.

First, it was a full team of 5, people that had done many HoO's and had decent gear and builds. Me on my clerc, a scout, a knight, and I don't recall the fourth and fifth chars. I believe we were all 230. I have max charm buffs, and for tank gear I wear a full Brave set (15) with Oro Jewelry with PO7's, and the defense costume, Ancient Royal. My defense is about 6.8K, I have 4 fires, and 6 heals, including the unique and IM heals. We went along without a hitch all the way to the last room. Since we had a Queen, we decided to lure and kill ALL mobs before taking her on. Again, all was fine up to this point. Taking on the Queen brought a HUGE surprise to all of us. She repeatedly killed 2 members of the group so fast all my heals could not keep them alive PERIOD! We had to stop and regroup, rebuff, twice. We had to walk everyone through the strategy to make sure we all did what most of us were used to. We had to lure her to our fires, and kill her. The difficulty level with the enhanced damage/defense/HP that she has, makes the dungeon all but impossible unless you have a well experienced group, and a good plan, or are just willing to die and regroup multiple times. The amount of time it takes to do that, makes a dungeon with a queen, too undesirable.

I had heard lately that people were doing dungeons with random players, and if they got a king fine. If they got a queen, they'd just DC at that point and start over. The difficulty level with inexperienced or unorganized groups was just not worth the payoff anymore. This is obviously a big problem if you are not premium, as you cannot do near as many dungeons successfully. This is making the number of people doing HoO dwindle fast lately. If it remains this way, Premium Service no longer provides any benefit for me personally. I only get it for the game energy at this point, and now, with near nobody to dungeon with, it just doesn't make any sense to pay the cost for myself.

Any others out there finding this to be a problem in doing HoO?

I know there was a good reason for enhancing many of the monsters with all the new damage being dealt out by players with these new gems and skills. But I think in some areas such as this, perhaps it may be a bit too much added damage. I mean after all, why give us let's say for example. 10% more damage dealt, just to in turn add 10% more defense/HP/whatever to the mobs we are hunting? I don't know the exact numbers, but obviously completeing this particular dungeon has become considerably more difficult. Perhaps the Dev's can look at this and scale it back a bit and get it a bit more manageable.

I haven't done SoD since this last update to their damage. Oh LORD, do I want to? O.o

if im not mistaken, premium account should get more valor reward in return , but im not sure anymore since so many changes lately . I noticed in cd premium gets benefit may received up to 50% more points maybe the same with dungeon , might need to check this . And ya dungeon is tough now not worth the time spending with the reward we get .. They should not make the king life so much , might as well open a vending shop buy and selling lisents and IM stuff

[UziDude]

Yes, premium gets more in both valor and honor points, as well, I have the valor skill.  It still isn't worth it to me.  SoD was much better as bendersmom just stated.  She's right, the boss in HoO should not be harder than the boss in SoD.  And NO, I do not mean make the Judge harder!    ROFL.

[Leeny]

Yea, I actually was in Dungeon this morning and I was wondering why my whole entire team left when we reached queen in HOO. I ran in to hit her a few times and got wrecked after a couple of hits to my knight.

[Phish]

I only played against one mammy queen since the update, and while it was definitely harder we still managed. I haven't completed a COU or SOD though.

 

 

And by the way Uzidude, the Mammy Queen is magic attacker.

[Feuer]

I wonder what her stats are now -goes ninja-

 

Royal Mammy Queen:

AP 12,075 Magic Type.  

Edited by Feuer, 25 October 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[thetrangdamvn]

Let's just lure her out and slow her then bang her!

Bosses which are supposed to be buffed a lot should be kings out there. Game Area Dungeons are daily, repeatable gameplay so it should not as challenging as a quest dungeon or stage dungeon :-?

People who have just hit 200 would flood into tears and have a bad impression on the dungeons today.

Personally I feel SOD is the easiest among dungeons now since those mobs (Forget what they're called) only rank Basic or Magic I guess? Knight will still do pretty fine. And of course many teams still run SOD with their slower.

[ChampPower]

The judge in SOD can deal 8K damage to my fully equipped knight, but it is only on several occasions, so we can handle the Judge. The queen in HOO, however, is an issue. If you do not have a good team, you would die very fast, regardless of what class you are. However, you can build some defense against her by increasing your magic defense. it would be a great help against her AOE skills, but you still take a huge damage (less than before) and may have some problem with her physical attack as well.

[MidnightSmurf]

I remember telling Leonis I thought the Mammy queen was the most well balanced boss in the game (pre-buff). I did whine about some monster, in dungeons, having too much HP.

[Filipito98]

Just reading this, makes me dont wana go moar to DGs ._., no offence leonis but the game become more unbalanced as it was

[Djerba]

Leonis/Genesis, I got a question for you.

 

According to your 'pinned' droptable guide SOD drops Reinforcement & Divini Ritual (5% chance).

After around 40 dungeon runs (mostly before latest patch) with my knight & cleric, i still wasnt able to loot one of those 2 rituals.

 

Can you officially confirm that the 'pinned' droptable is still up-to-date and that thsoe tomes DO drop in SOD?

 

I'm seriously doubting about the fact that you and/or Genesis actually play this game. Your last 2 patches (and earlier changes) makes no logic sence at all.

I suggest you try all of the dungeons with a reinf +10 set (which is the starting set for a starting player). The damage you will get is insane and you will not be able to do anything usefull in the dungeon.

 

I'll give you some examples;

- Caves of Ulverick (sleep to death by sleep chain)

- HOO (ridiculous damage of the bosses)

- SOD (those white mobs from the crystals are a joke + the boss in SOD hits 10k+ on my +10 reinf knight)

 

Seriously, make a new char with gear a new player can obtain on a short term (+10 reinf) and play the dungeons. You are making this game impossible for starting players!

I simply cannot understand what you are trying to accomplish with all the latest updates. For the love of this game, play the game as a starting player and you will understand what i'm trying to say here...

 

There is a simple solution, but you guys seem blind to it;

- Item restrictions on a new tier lvl gear, NOT the existing gears.

- Harder refining on a new tier lvl gear, NOT the existing gears.

- After 6 months, new tier lvl gear is released so the restrictions (harder refine & char lock) are now going for the new tier. The older tier becomes free to vend/trade and easier to refine after the new tier is released.

- More def / AP on mobs in a new planet or new dungeon, NOT the existing mobs/dungeons.

 

For the love of this game, use the brains & logic sence God gave you.

 

These changes can not possibly be tested thoroughly on the Pegasus server. Definatly not from the perspective of a starting player!

 

 

Edited by Djerba, 26 October 2014 - 01:06 AM.

[bl0b]

What I don't get is, the complaint was that boss type mobs were too easy (wasn't my idea), In reply, not only boss or sub bosses were made stronger, but normal type mobs too. Now aoe classes can aoe a whole lot of mobs faster then a single target class can auto attack kill one of these mobs, making it harder for single target classes to do anything regarding pvm. 

 

 

 

[Bendersmom]

Actually I am fine with the boss type monsters being harder to kill and tougher in their attacks.  It is just that the Mammy Queen takes well equipped, seasoned dungeon rats down in like 3 hits.  She was always a bit tougher then the king but now is making people leave the dungeons when they see it is the queen.  Which is really unfair in those dungeons of random players and you are not premium.  I don't think she needs to be nerfed, just maybe a few adjustments.  Even after using mute and stuns on her, which used to cut down on her AOEs, she seems to me to be aoeing faster then before and a lot stronger.  

[GreylaVu]

I am not sure if GMs did anything to the queen after this post or not,but i was just in HOO with a random group and we had no trouble with the queen not a single death from Queen.and our cleric was not great but was ok.i think the queen is fine now.

[Feuer]

Nothing's been changed since this topic was started. 

[Leeny]

I am not sure if GMs did anything to the queen after this post or not,but i was just in HOO with a random group and we had no trouble with the queen not a single death from Queen.and our cleric was not great but was ok.i think the queen is fine now.

 

maybe your team was just elite pros

[jerremy]

There's actually a lot of ways to disable bosses from doing much, it's just that no one uses them since before it was unnecessary and all you had to do was auto the mob with some salamander flames around you. Haven't done many dungeon runs yet so can't say for sure if they need toning down, but in the meantime may I suggest some skills you might want to get?

 

Knights: PvM shield bash. This skill here, is a 5sec (!) stun on a 7 sec cooldown, with the catch it only works in pvm. Queen will be no problem if she can't do anything for the majority of the fight.

Champions: Combat howl. We all know monster AI is terrible and you can just play around with monster aggros. Draw its agression to max range, make it run back to its spot, high mspd down = snared. She'll now desperately try to run back while you get to hit her for free. Don't forget to reapply in time.

Mages: You have a lot of options here. Combine cold snap with PvM frost ring (or even normal frost ring if your cha is high enough) and you have a full 18 seconds during which the enemy is snared to the ground. You have some other (although weaker ones) slows that can be applied permanently as well for when both are on CD. There's also PvM soul shock, and you have a 4 sec mute on a 6 second cooldown (100% succes chance). No more AoE bleeding.

(Dual) raiders: Your massive movement speed down may not have 100% uptime, but with a decent amount of cha it'll root any monster in place, and it's AoE too. Add to that an aspd down so strong it prevents mobs from using autos, and you're pretty much set to go.

Scouts: Not many tools available, but you have your high range and slow (weak one but it helps) to just mess around with the boss for a bit.

Artisan/bourg: Only range advantage, rely on your team.

Edited by jerremy, 27 October 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[Feuer]

Let's just lure her out and slow her then bang her!

 

That's what he said? /snickers

 

And for countering kings

 

Mage:

PvM Soul Shock 4sec mute 100% 6 sec CD

PvM Thunder Storm 5 sec stun 100% 20 sec CD [aoe]

PvM Meteorite Flow 5 sec stun 35% 16 sec CD [aoe]

PvM Elemental Spike 7 sec mute 60% 12 sec CD

Voltage Jolt Stun 2sec 40% 3.5sec CD

Tempest Stun 2 sec 20% 12sec CD [aoe]

Cold Snap

PvM Frost Ring [150% mspeed down 10 sec]

 

^ If you got all of those, which is actually possible, and easily done. You could utterly destroy any king solo

The amount of CC right there is godly. And trust me when I say this, there are a tonne of other ones for other classes that can make you a Beast Hunting Legend. 

The issue is: people want to be hand fed, and kill high level kings with melee and afking. No more say I. 

Edited by Feuer, 27 October 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[DestinyDeoxys]

Knights: PvM shield bash.

 

That's what I did yesterday, and I suppress the boss completely. Apparently, the overpower skills from the boss take time to charge, and with this skill you can reset his charging constantly, you will never get stunned by the spider in COU.

[jerremy]

That's what I did yesterday, and I suppress the boss completely. Apparently, the overpower skills from the boss take time to charge, and with this skill you can reset his charging constantly, you will never get stunned by the spider in COU.

Really? I've never seen them charging since there's no real obvious particles/animations going on, but that's good to know.

[MidnightSmurf]

I like these last few comments; they are so true!
I've run my share of dungeons and these last days I've been paying more attention to what people I don't recognize are doing (the ones I recognize I already know enough about). They do 'effects down' but not much else.

To me the mainproblem is the amount of mobs, there's just too many that will crit you, stun you, burn you, and crit you etc etc so the effects are applied all the time. And when hit by a 20sec mute you can't really do much to live but run!
I like it being tough, and now it kinda is tough but not as tougha s I would want it. The mammy is fun tho.

Saying I want it tougher yet is unfair and partly untrue. I want an OPTION to make it tougher. That option in my mind is for a pre-made group. So instead of 3 option I want 6 options for dungeons; 1 option for pre-made groups for each dungeon. This option would be slightly harder then the current settings are. The regular mode would be something between this currnet and the old settings. I know Leonis has talked about making dungeons available for solo persons and 3-man groups etc. We'll see where those plans might take us.

Other personal thoughts if anyone bothers to read in vain
If the monsters was reduced in numbers you could increase their dmg yet again to compensate. Certain things like the 20sec mute could remain if there wasn't a 100 mobs but instead 65 mobs.
-Other things like the Stuns in CoU could need a nerf. They add a difficulty level for sure but they aren't fun^^ They aren't fair when you get hit 12 times in a row and the only thing you're able to do in between is heal up. Put a longer cooldown on the Spiders stun-skill I suggest.
-The burn on the second floor is a fun thing but it last a few seconds too long. My champs HP is visibly (radically) drained when it finally stops bleeding from my wounds I like the fact that normal minions on the second floor in HoO can stun and mute you but these two mobs have so much HP they feel like a mini-boss in CoU^^ Most groups I've been in would rather surrender then trying to kill these before killing the boss. It's tanking or luring or nothing for those groups it seems, boring! But I agree that these monsters got such strong CC and what not that the high amount of HP doesn't feel justified, decrease it by a tad.
-The Mummy King is pure and plain boring with a crap ton of HP (the boss in CoU has a crap ton of HP as well but that's more or less fine if you decrease the stuns^^). Mummy King could need a look at how that Purify of his works. If you constantly throws debuffs it seems he constantly purifies.. Makes me smile for a split second before it gets boring after a hundred runs. Make him purify when there's like 3 effects on him or just less often. Let him keep the AP buff but remove the def buff (helps to neglect his amount of HP I suppose).
-Love the mammy queen eventho the AoE splat dmg is bit high for certain classes.

Edited by MidnightSmurf, 27 October 2014 - 09:21 AM.