1165 replies to this topic

[Kieri]

wow this topic seem become WAR, peoples that WOEing just want new environment, there seem alot problem within LR and SL. you guys should just pm each other, this thread is for discuss and improve current state of WOE. if GM still ignore and have no action, pretty sure some guild will quit woe.

 

P.S after read all pages, from my opinon SL or A2S ppl seem arrogant and they think they have big impact to all guild they temporary in, you guys just like body that lose head to me

Don't worry only one of them is a2s Core, the rest are fanboys.

[Thomas]

Just gonna throw in my 2 cents or whatever

I have played WoE a lot, but not recently so honestly I don't know very much about whats going on right now
I do, however, have a lot of experience playing WoE and getting stomped. I never had very good gears and was basically a noob running around
tickling a bunch of pros. 

What Vierma says is true, if I had worked harder I could have been up there competing with the big teams, but when guilds start to make huge alliances, its just not fun.

WoE has always been more fun to me, as a semi competitive player, to be in a nice small group of friendly people and get into fights with the other guilds. 

Maybe if we had a bunch of small guilds, maybe 30 in size, Running around getting into tons of fights everywhere, It would be much more fun than 2 guilds of 170 size each duking it out and owning anyone who gets in there way. 

while 170 vs 170 seems really awesome and cool, it is extremely detrimental to those who are a small group of friends.

All I can say is to remember your friends in these huge guilds, and remember that sometimes it doesn't take 100+ people to have a great time playing RO

[Necrohealiac]

there's also the issue of the server just throwing up when you have 170 vs 170 in the same castle, making it not fun for anyone involved.

[Nick255]

Just gonna throw in my 2 cents or whatever

I have played WoE a lot, but not recently so honestly I don't know very much about whats going on right now
I do, however, have a lot of experience playing WoE and getting stomped. I never had very good gears and was basically a noob running around
tickling a bunch of pros. 

What Vierma says is true, if I had worked harder I could have been up there competing with the big teams, but when guilds start to make huge alliances, its just not fun.

WoE has always been more fun to me, as a semi competitive player, to be in a nice small group of friendly people and get into fights with the other guilds. 

Maybe if we had a bunch of small guilds, maybe 30 in size, Running around getting into tons of fights everywhere, It would be much more fun than 2 guilds of 170 size each duking it out and owning anyone who gets in there way. 

while 170 vs 170 seems really awesome and cool, it is extremely detrimental to those who are a small group of friends.

All I can say is to remember your friends in these huge guilds, and remember that sometimes it doesn't take 100+ people to have a great time playing RO

 

The only solution I can think of is have a woe where teams are predetermined kind of like in football/soccer

 

i.e. Before woe begins, everyone is assigned a team, and they play in that team.  Each team has an equal amount of players in it (governed by a GM so this requires an active GM effort).  Gears are provided or you can use your own, etc.

 

Kind of like in football/soccer, no match will happen if it's 4 vs 5, or if one side has a goalie and the other none.  

 

The GM would also ensure the team is balanced in terms of number of people on the team across all teams and classes.  If there's like 5 teams and 1 team has 30 and another has 10, they'd redistribute the players.

 

Then when woe starts, because every side has an equal amount of players and classes, the decision to ally or not is left up to the type of battle each team wants.

 

So an "Organized Woe" not an "FFA Woe" 

[Necrohealiac]

do poor performing teams get relegated at the end of the season?

[miliardo]

I only hope that what you guys come up with will not be the removal of mvps altogether, as will have a bigger impact on server then most realize. The server can't handle most top players quitting. By eliminating the use if MVP also eliminate the big portion of end game content, which is so little at this point. What is the point in working to get high end gear now?

Their seems to be two main arguments that I feel like we need to move in from.

1) smaller guilds forced into big ones
2) big one forced into small ones

Either action hurts both equally, but still has little effect on current state if woe. This statement has been made clear. I understand the frustrations of small guilds, but I feel that you don't quite understand the other side. You base everything that you are being forced into big ones due to certain peoples opinions on this thread.

I want to point out that all the bickering was needed. The people needed to get everything out there, so we can all move on from it. Clear up the air and misconceptions.

I do love this game and I think we all do. Hurting the people who have keep the game going is not the right course of action.

Good luck guys and I hope the right course of action is taken.

[Myzery]

If you put Vierma on ignore, this thread actually becomes a discussion and you don't spend 5 minutes trying to figure out what he's saying only to realize its the same thing over and over.

 

The bottom line here is that Vierma and his buddies expect everyone to do something that they couldn't or refused to do.

They keep saying that LR wouldn't work with them. They never tried to approach any other small guilds to get something going.

They expect everyone else to do that thought! The truth is that they don't want to feel like losers.

Since the Animosity alliance wins in their eyes, they went like moths to a flame.

 

 

[miliardo]

If you put Vierma on ignore, this thread actually becomes a discussion and you don't spend 5 minutes trying to figure out what he's saying only to realize its the same thing over and over.

The bottom line here is that Vierma and his buddies expect everyone to do something that they couldn't or refused to do.
They keep saying that LR wouldn't work with them. They never tried to approach any other small guilds to get something going.
They expect everyone else to do that thought! The truth is that they don't want to feel like losers.
Since the Animosity alliance wins in their eyes, they went like moths to a flame.

Sorry but it's not just me saying the same thing. Your personal attacks on one guild forcing respond to all my post only because I am it in now.

[WarlockFier]

LYC group mentioned that they can't do anything on their own, the resort to join Animosity was because they are trying to force another huge alliance to form, but if they are on their own, wouldn't that means smaller guild capacity and alliance limit would benefit them too? =o

 

Sure there will be NAP, but the friendly fire will make it harder for them to coordinate still.

 

The cons of huge alliance we have so far established is that it kills smaller guilds and merging them into big ones constantly to be able to fight against the huge alliance, lag fest, create monopoly and no competition, thus dead server farming, I just don't see how it's feasible to continue a game mechanic that can allow up to 56/56 x4 guild alliance, that's 224 people in total to form in one alliance.. (yes I know they don't have that many people, but I'm saying the current game mechanic allows it) and the server can't really handle that much itself without lag.

 

Bottom line: Smaller guild cap + alliance limit = healthier and more balanced WOE scene that the iRO server can actually handle as well.

Edited by WarlockFier, 30 October 2014 - 07:09 AM.

[Havenn]

No one can argue that 15v15 is less fun than 70v15.

Edited by Havenn, 30 October 2014 - 07:10 AM.

[Myzery]

LYC group mentioned that they can't do anything on their own, the resort to join Animosity was because they are trying to force another huge alliance to form, but if they are on their own, wouldn't that means smaller guild capacity and alliance limit would benefit them too? =o

 

Sure there will be NAP, but the friendly fire will make it harder for them to coordinate still.

 

The cons of huge alliance we have so far established is that it kills smaller guilds and merging them into big ones constantly to be able to fight against the huge alliance, lag fest, create monopoly and no competition, thus dead server farming, I just don't see how it's feasible to continue a game mechanic that can allow up to 56/56 x4 guild alliance, that's 224 people in total to form in one alliance.. (yes I know they don't have that many people, but I'm saying the current game mechanic allows it) and the server can't really handle that much itself without lag.

 

Bottom line: Smaller guild cap + alliance limit = healthier and more balanced WOE scene that the iRO server can actually handle as well.

 

It would, but logic escapes illogical people.

I think that you make very good points.

The girls in this thread are really showing the guys up when it comes to balance ideas.

I think that's another issue here. Just because Kali isn't some bloodthirsty boy, the other side thinks she's mad. 

[elfiepie]

Well, I read the whole thread and would like to share my opinion as well without getting into fight with people. First of all; taking out the mvp/gods? That is not fair at all. People saved for that things and you cannot convince anyone to drop their items no matter what. It is only possible with making another type of woe where everything is equal not by changing the main one. But I think that is just waste of time, If you want to be equal to your opponents, there are so many games out there that you can actually do that. Not on Ragnarok tho. Farmed gods on the dead server, a gift god from a friend, or money being saved for it? You can simply not generalize it and not take it out.
 

36 people limit for a guild? So you want a guild with 70 people to say goodbye to their members or making a second guild but you also want ally number to go down so the only option for that guild is to ally their other half and have no "actual" allies but themselves? In this case making woe more fun may be only possible with lowering the guild number which a guild can ally. Not by trying to make guilds smaller. We all know, not only for guild nor woes, but also for TI runs and ET runs recruiting is a big part of this game and for an active and recruiting guild, if you want to compete then you will have to recruit. Remember, this is a social game as well. You can always hang around, make friends, recruit people. If you want to compete someone, you have to get to their level, get similar gears, get the same amount of people. You cannot ask your opponent to lower her/his standards. Can you? It is actually possible to compete with the "winning side, bigger guilds with more allies, gods, blah blah". I have also seen Animosity got rekt lots of times and it was also fun. We all want to have fun during woe and for myself I'm actually having fun. I have been in a small guild before with 20 people in it, was still fun to woe with friends and getting rekt or sometimes defeat others and laugh about it. It is all about how you are handling the defeat. If you cannot then it will be boring for you, that is normal. If you cannot handle the defeat then you have to do something about it instead of trying to lower your opponent's standards.

Even though Lambor was really kind to tell that he will agree with any solutions and adapt to the new system, I strongly do not agree with that. Want to compete bigger guilds? You have to get bigger. Want to compete with guild that has allies? then sorry my friend but you have to get allies. You don't want to get bigger? You don't want to have allies? Then you really don't have right to tell how exam was hard, cause you didn't study. Some of your friends passed, you also have the power to pass with the right strategy and studying. But you simply won't. Remember, decreasing max guild member number is a restriction but increasing is a choice. You cannot make woe more fun with making restrictions.

And why did I give a guild name? Why did I talk about guilds? Please do not ask me that or I will simply assume you don't know what competition means.
If you are willing to discuss my post, please read it twice and make sure you understand every part correctly
Have a nice day.

[miliardo]

Well, I read the whole thread and would like to share my opinion as well without getting into fight with people. First of all; taking out the mvp/gods? That is not fair at all. People saved for that things and you cannot convince anyone to drop their items no matter what. It is only possible with making another type of woe where everything is equal not by changing the main one. But I think that is just waste of time, If you want to be equal to your opponents, there are so many games out there that you can actually do that. Not on Ragnarok tho. Farmed gods on the dead server, a gift god from a friend, or money being saved for it? You can simply not generalize it and not take it out.

36 people limit for a guild? So you want a guild with 70 people to say goodbye to their members or making a second guild but you also want ally number to go down so the only option for that guild is to ally their other half and have no "actual" allies but themselves? In this case making woe more fun may be only possible with lowering the guild number which a guild can ally. Not by trying to make guilds smaller. We all know, not only for guild nor woes, but also for TI runs and ET runs recruiting is a big part of this game and for an active and recruiting guild, if you want to compete then you will have to recruit. Remember, this is a social game as well. You can always hang around, make friends, recruit people. If you want to compete someone, you have to get to their level, get similar gears, get the same amount of people. You cannot ask your opponent to lower her/his standards. Can you? It is actually possible to compete with the "winning side, bigger guilds with more allies, gods, blah blah". I have also seen Animosity got rekt lots of times and it was also fun. We all want to have fun during woe and for myself I'm actually having fun. I have been in a small guild before with 20 people in it, was still fun to woe with friends and getting rekt or sometimes defeat others and laugh about it. It is all about how you are handling the defeat. If you cannot then it will be boring for you, that is normal. If you cannot handle the defeat then you have to do something about it instead of trying to lower your opponent's standards.

Even though Lambor was really kind to tell that he will agree with any solutions and adapt to the new system, I strongly do not agree with that. Want to compete bigger guilds? You have to get bigger. Want to compete with guild that has allies? then sorry my friend but you have to get allies. You don't want to get bigger? You don't want to have allies? Then you really don't have right to tell how exam was hard, cause you didn't study. Some of your friends passed, you also have the power to pass with the right strategy and studying. But you simply won't. Remember, decreasing max guild member number is a restriction but increasing is a choice. You cannot make woe more fun with making restrictions.

And why did I give a guild name? Why did I talk about guilds? Please do not ask me that or I will simply assume you don't know what competition means.
If you are willing to discuss my post, please read it twice and make sure you understand every part correctly
Have a nice day.

+1

[ShinobiEX3]

If the gm's Says that they will work on removing certain mvp's what mvps would you all request to be taken away from the woe scene?

[miliardo]

Only gtb would work like kro

[Myzery]

Well, I read the whole thread and would like to share my opinion as well without getting into fight with people. First of all; taking out the mvp/gods? That is not fair at all. People saved for that things and you cannot convince anyone to drop their items no matter what. It is only possible with making another type of woe where everything is equal not by changing the main one. But I think that is just waste of time, If you want to be equal to your opponents, there are so many games out there that you can actually do that. Not on Ragnarok tho. Farmed gods on the dead server, a gift god from a friend, or money being saved for it? You can simply not generalize it and not take it out.
 

36 people limit for a guild? So you want a guild with 70 people to say goodbye to their members or making a second guild but you also want ally number to go down so the only option for that guild is to ally their other half and have no "actual" allies but themselves? In this case making woe more fun may be only possible with lowering the guild number which a guild can ally. Not by trying to make guilds smaller. We all know, not only for guild nor woes, but also for TI runs and ET runs recruiting is a big part of this game and for an active and recruiting guild, if you want to compete then you will have to recruit. Remember, this is a social game as well. You can always hang around, make friends, recruit people. If you want to compete someone, you have to get to their level, get similar gears, get the same amount of people. You cannot ask your opponent to lower her/his standards. Can you? It is actually possible to compete with the "winning side, bigger guilds with more allies, gods, blah blah". I have also seen Animosity got rekt lots of times and it was also fun. We all want to have fun during woe and for myself I'm actually having fun. I have been in a small guild before with 20 people in it, was still fun to woe with friends and getting rekt or sometimes defeat others and laugh about it. It is all about how you are handling the defeat. If you cannot then it will be boring for you, that is normal. If you cannot handle the defeat then you have to do something about it instead of trying to lower your opponent's standards.

Even though Lambor was really kind to tell that he will agree with any solutions and adapt to the new system, I strongly do not agree with that. Want to compete bigger guilds? You have to get bigger. Want to compete with guild that has allies? then sorry my friend but you have to get allies. You don't want to get bigger? You don't want to have allies? Then you really don't have right to tell how exam was hard, cause you didn't study. Some of your friends passed, you also have the power to pass with the right strategy and studying. But you simply won't. Remember, decreasing max guild member number is a restriction but increasing is a choice. You cannot make woe more fun with making restrictions.

And why did I give a guild name? Why did I talk about guilds? Please do not ask me that or I will simply assume you don't know what competition means.
If you are willing to discuss my post, please read it twice and make sure you understand every part correctly
Have a nice day.

 

The guild cap is below 70 already, so your point is invalid.

You also were never active in Animosity outside of WoE and even in WoE, you were hardly ever there.

You're simply another person that wants this illusion of winning.

 

I don't think you know what competition means since you're on board for killing the server.

 

 

 

[heinrichxxiii]

The fact that you mention that you had to sacrifice your own guild and merge with another just to form synergia shows how Fooked up the situation was. Once that didn't work out, all you did after that was form alliances with other guilds just to sustain in the WoE scene. Isn't that sad and pathetic? Shouldn't you be on our side and help balancing this 10 year old guild system that's wrecking the WoE scene?

I mean you guys don't even get treated equally. When was the last time your allies held any castle on you guys and helped you defend? Haven't seen that in WoE1 or WoE2 or even WoE:TE. All you've been doing is help your allies defend their castle and you guys running last minute to grab end castles (and in return they probably share the loot and they get the glory) for last year or so. Its as bad as being a slave. I feel sad for two major guilds in Valk server.

I will tell you what is really pathetic...ask GM to change the game because you lost your friends and now cant win. Several woe guilds do not prepare new players for woe. Most of my members are new players, a little hard to face dinosaurs but I dont cast them away from WoE.

The last time my alliance held a castle with me? Last month on brit 4 for 35 days. And I did not wanted to econ because I believe we have to improve on gvg fights.

But you know...everytime my guild tries to held a fort by ourselves...several guilds come to fight us...just look last wends, we were fighting Hysteria and tow more guilds came....I called one of my allies, why is that so bad for you? This is War of emperium...in any war you can make pacts to pursuit common goals, especially with honorable allies.

I have seen small or mid size guilds get biggers and stronger thanks to mvp cards or merge with smaller guilds....just because of that I am not asking GMs to change the game so I could have a chance to win.

[Havenn]

'You're simply another person that wants this illusion of winning' is the big thing

[ChakriGuard]

The guild cap is below 70 already, so your point is invalid.

You also were never active in Animosity outside of WoE and even in WoE, you were hardly ever there.

You're simply another person that wants this illusion of winning.

 

I don't think you know what competition means since you're on board for killing the server.

 

Why do you think the person has joined the winning side? The point is totally invalid and like you said, the illusion of winning has blinded many new players who are in the winning side, thinking they're someone. The post itself has many ridiculous contradictions in many ways.
 

Edited by ChakriGuard, 30 October 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[Myzery]

'You're simply another person that wants this illusion of winning' is the big thing

 

That's all it is in the end, an Illusion.

If there's no competition, how can anyone be satisfied at the end of the day?

 

You play this game mostly for MvPing don't you?

I bet you get a rush when a card actually drops. Would you get that same rush if an NPC was handing the card out to you?

[Myzery]

Why do you think she's joined the winning side? The point is totally invalid and like you said, the illusion of winning has blinded many new players who are in the winning side, thinking they're someone. The post itself has contradictions in many ways.
 

 

I feel like you're one of the only sensible people that has played on both sides of the fence.

You've also had some fairly good suggestions, but people that don't want change will continue to shoot down your ideas.

Just stick to your guns and I believe the GMs will make a change. Maybe not the one everyone wants, but it has to start somewhere.
 

[ShinobiEX3]

Only gtb would work like kro

 

what about maya p

[elfiepie]

The guild cap is below 70 already, so your point is invalid.

You also were never active in Animosity outside of WoE and even in WoE, you were hardly ever there.

You're simply another person that wants this illusion of winning.

 

I don't think you know what competition means since you're on board for killing the server.

 

You cannot always get 70 people online so with inactives and busy ones 56 is pretty enough for that number. From what you are saying, I can see you didn't read my entire post or you didn't understand at all. If you want to talk about me, you need to know my past. Which clearly you don't. I woe'd with Final Uprising, with 20 people online every week since i started woeing, for 1 year until the guild disbanded due to leaders real life and I was loyal to them. You can imagine winning over bigger guilds with 20 people was not really possible and we lost lots of fights tho I never left my guild because I was having fun there despite we were losing. After the disband, I have chosen another guild not by judging if it is winning or not. The important thing for me was to woe with friendly people and I'm woeing with friendly people. Until my old guild's leader is back. Then I will be going back to woe with smaller guild, Final Uprising. So no, I'm not simply another person that wants the illusion of winning.

It doesn't really depends on me being active or not. I do woe when I'm not busy and I have seen the situation.
Maybe you will try to understand what I'm saying this time. Hopefully.

[ChakriGuard]

I feel like you're one of the only sensible people that has played on both sides of the fence.

You've also had some fairly good suggestions, but people that don't want change will continue to shoot down your ideas.

Just stick to your guns and I believe the GMs will make a change. Maybe not the one everyone wants, but it has to start somewhere.
 

 

 

Yup I do support both sides when I "think" it is right. I am actually very neutral here and I try to suggest the best ideas to keep the server alive, trying to keep personal hatred/issues minimum. I believe it depends on what topic. For example, sometimes I support Miliardo's post (ie. LYC joining Animosity even if it might ruin the WoE) because it is actually nothing wrong (ie. they have every rights to be there) so I support his point, but at the same time I dont support his idea of pointing fingers to new players to work harder to fight a well-established guild (ie. fighting an Apple inc.?) because that is a pure bull-_-.

 

I have every rights to post my idea and I still stand firm on it because I know it will work at, and at the same time I am well aware that other people also have every rights to shoot down my ideas, but in the end, Oda will receive my messages, read, consider, and make a decision. That is beyond my control and whatever outcome turns out, I am totally fine because I am a neutral player here. If Gods/Mvps continue to be allowed and let the server die, sure, that is not my problem. If Gods/Mvps get disabled and WoE "might" be restored (ie. new players will join because they dont fear of getting one shoted anymore, etc), again, this is not my problem. I can always run back to Thai RO if I really want to play, more competitive and more fun, but I love RO in general and seeing any server goes dead is a last thing I want to see.

 

And yes I always stick to my guns (my points), I actually have first purposed the idea of disabling the Gods/Mvps on page 3. Now it is page 22 and I still stick to my points, trying to convince new players to voice out their opinions because I know what I am saying. I might not be fair to people who have invested a lot in this game to get Gods/Mvps, but if we all want WoE to be fun again, veterans need to sacrifice because they actually can. Even if real life world, small firms get helps from the governments to fight well-established firms. And yes more comments are supportive toward the idea of disabling Gods/Mvps more than I expected.  Those who usually oppose are those who equip tons of Gods/Mvps in WoE and enjoy one-shotting newbies which is fine as long as they admit, they dont want a competitive WoE.
 

Edited by ChakriGuard, 30 October 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Myzery]

You cannot always get 70 people online so with inactives and busy ones 56 is pretty enough for that number. From what you are saying, I can see you didn't read my entire post or you didn't understand at all. If you want to talk about me, you need to know my past. Which clearly you don't. I woe'd with Final Uprising, with 20 people online every week since i started woeing, for 1 year until the guild disbanded due to leaders real life and I was loyal to them. You can imagine winning over bigger guilds with 20 people was not really possible and we lost lots of fights tho I never left my guild because I was having fun there despite we were losing. After the disband, I have chosen another guild not by judging if it is winning or not. The important thing for me was to woe with friendly people and I'm woeing with friendly people. Until my old guild's leader is back. Then I will be going back to woe with smaller guild, Final Uprising. So no, I'm not simply another person that wants the illusion of winning.

It doesn't really depends on me being active or not. I do woe when I'm not busy and I have seen the situation.
Maybe you will try to understand what I'm saying this time. Hopefully.

 

I read it, I understand it, I know where you came from.

You're talking like you know what's going on, which you clearly don't.

Like I said and like I will continue to say, you're under the illusion of winning and now you're addicted to it.

You even said yourself that you can from a smaller guild and are used to being kicked around.

 

I have played this game for a good while. I have been on the winning side, I have been on the losing side.

People play this game for a variety of reasons. I'm not putting you down for wanting to win.

Over the years, I have seen people jump ship when they start to lose.

Personally, I would rather fight to get back on top, but you need a key resource for that to happen and that resource is players.

When you have guilds trying to purposely make people quit, that's just pathetic. If you really wanted competition and a true sense of winning, you would take steps to make that happen.