30 replies to this topic

[Arbalist]

Nah I'm no god, I'm just restating tests done by our guild leader, Chaostamer149.

In our tests, we never bothered to figure out what the 2nd line in the penetration window did..it seemed to serve no observable or obvious purpose. The third line is used in some formula, but again, since it wasn't me who did the test personally, I don't have the adjusted formula that includes penetration on hand. 

I literally just meant they were lazy for using the same formulas everywhere:
Crit + Parry are both:
x% = x/(0.02*x+40)
and Vigor, Cast Speed, Haste are all:
x(%) = x/(0.005*x+0.2*Level+10)

My opinion of the competency of Developers to fix/change anything in their game is something else entirely that I won't get into.

Monsters of the same level have the same Defense values (again, lazy copy+paste development). Usually speaking from Dayr Desert mobs such as Condors, they start at 50% Def.

Edited by Arbalist, 06 December 2014 - 12:20 AM.

[7397141015204128823]

Do the "according to same levels" includes PVP as well?

 

I still don't get that portion. Does that mean that if you are not in the same level as the mob, then there's a different calculation? Even just a level off?

[Arbalist]

Probably not, we ran the tests with a ML1 Assassin against monsters, ML1 Monk, ML 20 Warrior, and ML 30 BM. Like I said the second line doesn't appear to have an effect.

EDIT: Chaos has publicized his stat calculator, you can now test your theories of Armor penetration to your heart's content and not rely on my vague understanding Cheers.
http://forums.warppo...c/#entry1983962
 

Edited by Arbalist, 06 December 2014 - 05:05 PM.

[Greven79]

and Vigor, Cast Speed, Haste are all:
x(%) = x/(0.005*x+0.2*Level+10)

 

Are you sure about that part. I thought that this was the case before the later vigor changes. As I've written earlier, the 0.005 part means that there's a theoreitcal max. percentage of 200% (1/0.005=200).

 

More useless infos:

Spoiler

Haste/Vigor/Cast Speed:

Value = (0.2*Level+10) * Rate / (1-0.005*Rate)

Value = (40*Level+2000) * Rate/(200-Rate)

 

That means that you would need 5200 points in the according stat to achieve 100% Haste, Vigor or CastSpeed.

With skills that increase the final percentage by a fix value (Guardian, Ymir, Wind Crest, Pyromaniac, etc.), you'd need much less:

 

A Wizard would need 422 points to achieve 15% cast speed and that would result in more than 100% in total.

Guardian=30%, Ymir=15%, Crest=20%, Pyromaniac=20% => 85% already

Final note: Checked the formula with several characters and it still seems to be valid (no matter how stupid).

Would have been a nice remark in a VCR report, but who knows....

Edited by Greven79, 07 December 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Arbalist]

Are you sure about that part. I thought that this was the case before the later vigor changes. As I've written earlier, the 0.005 part means that there's a theoreitcal max. percentage of 200% (1/0.005=200).

 

You know you could have just tested out the formula yourself instead of questioning everything. Yeah, I'm sure about the formulas, if you find that it doesn't work you're always free to post your numbers and we can see what is wrong. Not sure about the relevance of your second line, theoretical cap of 200% or not, the caps I've posted are in game and tested multiple times.

Vigor Cap: Can be tested with Soulmaker, may need some vigor hones but they can reach over 75%.
Cast Speed Cap: Can be tested with Wizard or Sorcerer
Haste Cap: I never spoke of this one because we never tested it, didn't see a need to invest in a full haste build because few people focus on haste. 

[Greven79]

No reason to get mad, Arbalist. I couldn't get online when I wrote my last reply.

I checked that now and altered my last reply respectively (formulas are still correct).

 

The "second line" about the 200% cap was referring to my previous statement:

Quote: "the devs could have easily replaced 0.01 to alter the cap"

 

So I am pretty sure that the devs didn't even understood their own formulas.

 

I never doubted the LotS maximum, you've mentioned: Instead they show quite perfectly that in combination with a much higher theoretical cap, only a small amount of haste/vigor/cast speed will ever make sense: So the "you never reach the cap" idea behind the formulas doesn't work at all.

 

75% Haste / Vigor:

No other buff: No need to ever get more than 3120pts in vigor... that would be enough to reach the cap.

 

+10% ( SL:Conc): No more than 2504pts ever needed

+15% (Awake): No more than 2229pts ever

+3ß% (Guardian): Reaching cap with 1510pts

 

+55% (all combined): Reaching cap with 577pts

 

Same goes for Cast Speed (never more than 3466pts to cap).

 

That's why I was wondering why no VCR ever suggested to alter the formulas to define a real/useful cap

Edited by Greven79, 07 December 2014 - 12:38 PM.