to refine handle or doll? - Soulmaker - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

to refine handle or doll?


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 vzyanlow

vzyanlow

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 07 December 2014 - 05:21 PM

some say, higher refine on handle can get higher cure effect.

is the refine on handle affect cure? or doll is what we need? for Full Support Soulmaker 


  • 0

#2 FishDeity

FishDeity

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 361 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 07 December 2014 - 05:33 PM

some say, higher refine on handle can get higher cure effect.

is the refine on handle affect cure? or doll is what we need? for Full Support Soulmaker 


  • 0

#3 KuroiKoneko

KuroiKoneko

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 632 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 07 December 2014 - 06:07 PM

refine weapon for magic classes add only melee normal damage, not matk

you can get matk by refining offhand "weapon" like bible or doll
  • 0

#4 vzyanlow

vzyanlow

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 07 December 2014 - 06:47 PM

refine weapon for magic classes add only melee normal damage, not matk

you can get matk by refining offhand "weapon" like bible or doll

thank you, than i will go for doll.the refine on handle is what a waste.


  • 0

#5 Greven79

Greven79

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1006 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 08 December 2014 - 08:43 AM

Wait, wait, wait!

 

Currently, total damage is a sum of weapon damage, magical attack power (MATK) and skill amplifier. Refining your weapon is usually the best way to raise your total damage with any skill (including Cure), since +1 weapon damage is equivalent to +10 MATK. (better check the refinement bonuses ingame)

 

There are a few exceptions though. Awake:Soulmate and a few other skills only increase your MATK (f.e. Ymir). So you won't get an extra by refining your weapon. Pet damage also 'ignores' your weapon damage, but it's simply not true that weapon refinement is just for "melee damage".


  • 1

#6 Tonitrua

Tonitrua

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • RO2 Community Representative
  • 882 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2

Posted 08 December 2014 - 10:31 AM

refine weapon for magic classes add only melee normal damage, not matk

you can get matk by refining offhand "weapon" like bible or doll

 

Just to add to what Greven said, this is completely false. Refining your weapon to +20 as a magic class will nearly double your healing and damage with magic skills.


  • 0

#7 KuroiKoneko

KuroiKoneko

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 632 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 08 December 2014 - 04:04 PM

Wait, wait, wait!

Currently, total damage is a sum of weapon damage, magical attack power (MATK) and skill amplifier. Refining your weapon is usually the best way to raise your total damage with any skill (including Cure), since +1 weapon damage is equivalent to +10 MATK. (better check the refinement bonuses ingame)

There are a few exceptions though. Awake:Soulmate and a few other skills only increase your MATK (f.e. Ymir). So you won't get an extra by refining your weapon. Pet damage also 'ignores' your weapon damage, but it's simply not true that weapon refinement is just for "melee damage".


Just to add to what Greven said, this is completely false. Refining your weapon to +20 as a magic class will nearly double your healing and damage with magic skills.


so you want to say what 30ml soulmaker fully stacked cure with non-refined handle heal only 6-8k and with +20 cure will heal 12-16k?
or priest crit and with asperio HH will heal 160-250k while non-refined only 80-125k lol

 

 

Edit:

Difference is not very big, if for cazar weapons +20 refinement give +542 min\max damage it just raw add +542 to heal or damage, only 542, like without refinement heal was ~5000 with +20 refinement it will be ~5542

does my healing wave with +17 cazar staff became almost double comparing to non-refined himmel staff?


Edited by KuroiKoneko, 09 December 2014 - 12:40 AM.

  • 1

#8 Seanski

Seanski

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 08 December 2014 - 06:37 PM

I refine both handle and doll too.. :-) there is a difference between clean and +20 in my experience.
  • 0

#9 PeachMilkTea

PeachMilkTea

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 147 posts
  • LocationCalifornia
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 08 December 2014 - 08:09 PM

Refine both as high as you can o:


  • 0

#10 Greven79

Greven79

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1006 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 09 December 2014 - 03:51 AM

@ KuroiKoneko
 
The current formula is:

total = (MATK*0.095 + weapon_avg) * skill_multiplier

Refining a weapon increases the weapon average by a fix amount.... the total damage (or heal) goes up as well.
Refining a doll does the same... but you have to divide the magical attack power bonuses by ~10 (0.095) first.
_________
 
You used a Healing Wave lvl1 (116%) in your example.
 
+17 weapon: (15,076 * 0.095 + (452+509)/2 + 410) * 1.16 = 2694 average heal
+14 weapon: (15,651 * 0.095 + (452+509)/2 + 296) * 1.16 = 2625 average heal
+0 weapon: (15,060 * 0.095 + (438+495)/2 ) * 1.16 = 2200 average heal
 
In the second example, the additional +580 MATK honing generates an equivalent of a +55.1 weapon refinement (580*0.095). That lowered the resulting difference.
 
In general, the difference isn't 494, but 22.5%. That means that the refinement bonus isn't simply added. That's only true when a skill with a multiplier close to 100% is used. As soon as skill multiplier is higher - say Rejuvenation or Deluge - the difference is also higher.
 
Unlike Tonitrua said, a +20 refinement doesn't double the total damage. Your 15k MATK already generates an effect of ~1430 (15,060*0.095) that is equivalent to weapon damage. That means that it's already three times as high as the average of your weapon. Increasing the weapon damage by +410 (+85%) via refinement is worth only 1/4th in the end (~22%).
 
To sum it up:

  • It's false to say that weapon refinement is for melee damage only
  • It's false to assume that the weapon refinement is simply added to the final effect.
  • It's false to say that a weapon refinement doubles the total effect (only true with 0 MATK)

 

But what's a better refinement: Doll or Handle?
Due to the formula given above, raising the MATK by refining a doll would be only about 1/10th (0.095) as powerful as any weapon refinement. This means you might not achieve a higher benefit in the end. A +17 refinement would require an MATK bonus of 4316 to achieve the same result as the +410 weapon refinement.
 
That's why I wrote:

 

... since +1 weapon damage is equivalent to +10 MATK. (better check the refinement bonuses ingame)

 

I haven't memorized the refinement bonuses for a Soulmaker doll, so I can't answer that directly.

 

Edit:

Found a +20 Cazar Doll in Auction House: MATK 3293 + 2168. So it's definitely worse than the weapon refinement.

 


Edited by Greven79, 09 December 2014 - 09:08 AM.

  • 0

#11 Tonitrua

Tonitrua

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • RO2 Community Representative
  • 882 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2

Posted 09 December 2014 - 12:07 PM

@ KuroiKoneko
 
The current formula is:

total = (MATK*0.095 + weapon_avg) * skill_multiplier

Refining a weapon increases the weapon average by a fix amount.... the total damage (or heal) goes up as well.
Refining a doll does the same... but you have to divide the magical attack power bonuses by ~10 (0.095) first.
_________
 
You used a Healing Wave lvl1 (116%) in your example.
 
+17 weapon: (15,076 * 0.095 + (452+509)/2 + 410) * 1.16 = 2694 average heal
+14 weapon: (15,651 * 0.095 + (452+509)/2 + 296) * 1.16 = 2625 average heal
+0 weapon: (15,060 * 0.095 + (438+495)/2 ) * 1.16 = 2200 average heal
 
In the second example, the additional +580 MATK honing generates an equivalent of a +55.1 weapon refinement (580*0.095). That lowered the resulting difference.
 
In general, the difference isn't 494, but 22.5%. That means that the refinement bonus isn't simply added. That's only true when a skill with a multiplier close to 100% is used. As soon as skill multiplier is higher - say Rejuvenation or Deluge - the difference is also higher.
 
Unlike Tonitrua said, a +20 refinement doesn't double the total damage. Your 15k MATK already generates an effect of ~1430 (15,060*0.095) that is equivalent to weapon damage. That means that it's already three times as high as the average of your weapon. Increasing the weapon damage by +410 (+85%) via refinement is worth only 1/4th in the end (~22%).
 
To sum it up:

  • It's false to say that weapon refinement is for melee damage only
  • It's false to assume that the weapon refinement is simply added to the final effect.
  • It's false to say that a weapon refinement doubles the total effect (only true with 0 MATK)

 

But what's a better refinement: Doll or Handle?
Due to the formula given above, raising the MATK by refining a doll would be only about 1/10th (0.095) as powerful as any weapon refinement. This means you might not achieve a higher benefit in the end. A +17 refinement would require an MATK bonus of 4316 to achieve the same result as the +410 weapon refinement.
 
That's why I wrote:

 

 

I haven't memorized the refinement bonuses for a Soulmaker doll, so I can't answer that directly.

 

Edit:

Found a +20 Cazar Doll in Auction House: MATK 3293 + 2168. So it's definitely worse than the weapon refinement.

 

I guess my post could have used an asterisk, as the percentage increase for a +20 weapon will vary from class to class and depending on which gear you're using.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users