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#26 RenatoKolokoy

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 12:33 PM

As i said, that trick of siege spam is not because of recall but by just porting out and in to your fort you can still spam build it because the sieges load slow .

 

Both of them work - Recall and by porting out and in. You cannot build a siege weapon colony for a couple of minutes by porting out and in, unless most of members are doing the same trick. I suggest VCR's should test it out on test server to confirm.


Edited by RenatoKolokoy, 29 January 2015 - 12:36 PM.

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#27 foxxxtrot

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 05:45 PM

meh. . .  just this once i will participate here


Edited by foxxxtrot, 29 January 2015 - 06:05 PM.

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#28 foxxxtrot

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 05:54 PM

Is it me or if you read the comments of people, YOU"'LL FIND OUT THAT THEY ARE USING AND ARE ABUSING THE SAID "LOADING ISSUE" By spamming siege weapons???

REMOVAL OF SIEGE WEAPONS..... YES.
REMOVAL OF GUARDIANS . . .  NO.
REMOVAL OF ECALL.... STUPID IDEA.

FIXING THE GAME???? Actually will FIX all of this. Just saying.

Instead of coming up for more lame ideas to make OLD/EXISTING PLAYERS DO MORE GRINDING for BOXES and What not, why not fix the game, BAN ALL ABUSERS, REBALANCE CLASSES, and RO2 will definitely get more players.

well, IMO this is just a dream unless BILL GATES DONATE $20M to WP.


Oh, here's a screenshot, try and find your way to the emp ^_^
84bUPE2.jpg

84bUPE2.jpg

 


Edited by foxxxtrot, 29 January 2015 - 06:03 PM.

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#29 samaura

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 09:47 PM

Deus how do you not lag? I WANT YOUR COMPUTER!!!

 

All the siege gear causes my computer to never load which leaves me nearly useless for WoE. Really, I don't understand how lag like this is supposed to be "fun". I shouldn't lag like this, I live way too close to the server. The map will refuse to load for 5-10 mins at a time every time I approach any fort. There is no possible way to find my guildies let alone try to heal or take down their siege gear. My favorite part about woe is the time I zone and it looks like screen shot 1.

 

KzQxatM.jpg?2

 

ff4j6RX.jpg?1

 


Edited by samaura, 29 January 2015 - 10:14 PM.

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#30 flukeSG2

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 02:51 PM

Why hasn't anyone just said an easy fix, limit the amount of siege weapons each guild can put down.  There is nothing wrong with the use of Siege in defending your fort/castle.   WoE population varies on each day due to player locations, siege can help repell a larger force on day, or help invading a fort on another day.  The only issue right now is the lack of limit being placed on them and avoiding the collision (lololol no pun intended) system when deploying them.

 

Recall does not need to be removed.  Yes it was hella fun with no recall when the alliances where more on equal footing and it was very enjoyable.  Right now, it would be severely unbalanced.


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#31 Greven79

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 04:58 PM

I got your point, let's say they removed the recall. Do you think that attacking guilds can reach the emperium? Prolly half of them will be eliminated on the spawn point of the map because most of the defending guild will probably camp beside the entrance. What if the half that passed through the entrance reached the fortress, do you think they can reach the emp? No, because siege weapon and the big guardian will just rid all of them.
 
That's why if they will remove the Urgent Recall, remove all siege weapons and guardian as well because leaving them will promote imbalance. It will bring WOE to a higher level of strategic play if that's gonna happen.

 
Even camping the entrances can be fixed f.e.by replacing the damage immunity after entering a new map with a properly working perfect dodge (as well as by adding more 'spawning' points of course).. But let's ignore the typical 'entrance' abusal that happens even outside the WoE sieges and would need some extra attention anyways:
 
Let's remember how well 'zerging the emp' via Urgent Recall worked as long as you could heal it or when it is 'renewed' by swapping castle ownership. Now let's test how good it would work, if a guild couldn't use Recall in the first 5min of WoE (or in the first min after a castle swap) or if there would be a lower max. number of teleported players. Let's imagine, Gravity would fix Cure, Battle Tactics and lower/remove damage reduction... How could someone still rely on fast hits right after the teleport? Now let's also imagine, if forts would have gates! And what would happen if the skill wouldn't be easily used by a hidden character (who is dependant on speed bonuses as well) or if stealth characters would leave marks or footprints just like a Ghost Palaquin does?
 
It seems there are a lot of if's and when's.
 
So it shouldn't be hard to admit that all these 'features' first make Urgent Recall a viable strategy and it shouldn't be hard to accept that this skill is currently the only existing strategy... and it should be easy to come to the conclusion that the strategy aims to bypass all the PvP aspects.
 
So I am not saying that the game will be fixed as soon as you remove Urgent Recall, but I state that WoE is doomed as long as the skill exists.
 

Simply enough, because the skill prevents that there'll ever be a different strategy.
 
So that's why I would remove it, that's why I'd rather lower the capabilities of siege weapons and that's why I would focus on fixing the entrance issue or anything that stops a 'normal' gameplay.. Because that's the only direction that would eventually result in an improved WoE, not sticking to Urgent Recall and introducing a no-siege-zone around the emp.
 
And btw: You could almost eliminate the stacking issues of siege weapons, if you would add a significant casting time to the first use / placement (auto-include the first two supply usages).

 

Edit: I just had another idea how to address the entrance camping: Fortress & castle owners simply aren't allowed to use the normal entrances. That makes Morroc entrances much more 'secure', because it isn't possible to get up the wall. In case of Prontera, also  relocate/remove the 'south fortress gate orb' and take care noone can jump down from inside the wall. Then, the gate will be a good way to separate the forces... and the first minutes are the most essential.


Edited by Greven79, 30 January 2015 - 06:32 PM.

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#32 xFrozenApples

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 12:00 AM

 
So I am not saying that the game will be fixed as soon as you remove Urgent Recall, but I state that WoE is doomed as long as the skill exists.
 

 

 

 

Uh, so basically, ur saying dont fix this siege abuse and let other guilds walk inside forts. Seems legit. Thing I wanted to say was, u can only enter to forts with recall cuz of this mass siege gear abuse, yet cuz of slow load u cant act at all. Problem with woe is not really recall at this point, when every fort owner are doing this


Edited by xFrozenApples, 31 January 2015 - 12:00 AM.

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#33 flukeSG2

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 06:59 AM

Edit: I just had another idea how to address the entrance camping: Fortress & castle owners simply aren't allowed to use the normal entrances. That makes Morroc entrances much more 'secure', because it isn't possible to get up the wall. In case of Prontera, also  relocate/remove the 'south fortress gate orb' and take care noone can jump down from inside the wall. Then, the gate will be a good way to separate the forces... and the first minutes are the most essential.

 

Now you are making sense!  I can get on board with all of that, except the /remove, just relocate the orb to.... BOA!!!!!  Wow, so BoA would actually have some meaning!

 

I say relocate because simply breaking the gate might not be feasible if the defending guilds act fast enough, you can put up an impenetrable layer of defense above the gate, there needs to be an alternative method to bring it down.

 

Actually, seeing as the 2 upper Bases offer flying Kafra, I don't see why BoA doesn't as well, a 3rd "tunnel" if you will into the upper area of the map only allowing one enemy force to "sneak" by the defenses.


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#34 crafter4epics

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 07:20 AM

Now you are making sense!  I can get on board with all of that, except the /remove, just relocate the orb to.... BOA!!!!!  Wow, so BoA would actually have some meaning!

 

actually it's good. make these 3 emperiums useful again like from WOE v1. BoA, BoS, BoP gives 3 different buffs at previous WOE. make BoA a guardian for entrance gate, BoS for east castle gate & BoP for west castle gate


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#35 flukeSG2

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 09:10 AM

actually it's good. make these 3 emperiums useful again like from WOE v1. BoA, BoS, BoP gives 3 different buffs at previous WOE. make BoA a guardian for entrance gate, BoS for east castle gate & BoP for west castle gate

 

So on top of that I actually made a suggestion to Njoror about the BoA, BoS and BOP.  I believe they should offer buffs like the Forts/Castle does.  Like how the forts buff are smaller than the castle buff, again the base buffs should be smaller yet.  I propose that the bases offer 250hp increase and 7% speed increase.  Allow guilds to hold the bases after woe ends, however, do not allow them to start or warp to the bases at the start, require them to run to them and defend them again.  I think this would be excellent for smaller guilds, as the larger guilds more than likely will want the Forts/Castle for the bigger buffs + Guild Vault/Greedy Mine access.

 

Now the problem for Morroc WoE, there is nothing similar to the bases, I suggest placing something up near Ceres location, a single base if you will.


Edited by flukeSG2, 31 January 2015 - 09:10 AM.

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#36 SETSUNAf6w

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 06:16 PM

Well yes sieges should have a distance limit like they always did to prevent stacking. Stacking makes WoE unplayable both for the attacking and defending guilds. Also the Emperiums should enforce that same distance limit. Can't say how many times I have seen catapults on top of Emps to prevent click targeting. A good old trick from those ironically obsessed at proving how legit they are.


Edited by SETSUNAf6w, 31 January 2015 - 06:17 PM.

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#37 chronojxf007

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 11:30 PM

original.jpg?1422251651

Definitely NOT fine! Look at this, you literally can't even see the ground. Wasn't there supposed to be a space requirement in between 2 seize weapons? Why is it being bypassed. You can't even click or tab into the emperium, guardians or other players at all. How pathetic

Can I suggest a space buffer surrounding the emperium where you are not able to build sieze towers so they're not used as shields =.=

 

 

EA9fX6O.jpg

Nothing to do with lag. If I understand chaseme correctly, the game doesn't allow seize gears to be built so close to each other for yourself but it doesn't stop other players from building near yours. That is what's been done here - the purpose is to shield everything so it's impossible for enemies to target you, the guardians or the emperium. Disgusting play

 

This doesn't make any sense, spamming siege weapons as block against enemies. If I got the authority, better disable the siege weapon system for a moment and repolish the criteria of that system to make it not unfair on both sides. OR increase the value of siege weapons like 100x to 1000x its value per zeny.  :thx:   :heh:


Edited by chronojxf007, 31 January 2015 - 11:38 PM.

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#38 5318130516144610857

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 11:53 PM

Now you are making sense!  I can get on board with all of that, except the /remove, just relocate the orb to.... BOA!!!!!  Wow, so BoA would actually have some meaning!

 

I say relocate because simply breaking the gate might not be feasible if the defending guilds act fast enough, you can put up an impenetrable layer of defense above the gate, there needs to be an alternative method to bring it down.

 

Actually, seeing as the 2 upper Bases offer flying Kafra, I don't see why BoA doesn't as well, a 3rd "tunnel" if you will into the upper area of the map only allowing one enemy force to "sneak" by the defenses.

 

Putting an orb to open main gate in the Base of Advancement is not a good idea, the whole purpose of the gate is to prevent attacking guilds to easily reach the upper part of the map and we all know how easily attacking guilds can reach BoA in the first minute of WOE, in a much faster way than any other defending guild. It would turn the main gate as a small obstacle to overcome, which is not its original purpose.

 

Other than that, I agree with everything else. Give a new meaning to the bases in prontera and fix this siege weapon spam.


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#39 bluezak

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:06 AM

question is why is it that just now this issue is brought out?. I think this kind of issue has been on the game long time ago.


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#40 chronojxf007

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:42 AM

question is why is it that just now this issue is brought out?. I think this kind of issue has been on the game long time ago.

 

It was reported a long time ago, and so I guess the devs don't wanna check this issue for balance. Siege gears need to be rechecked and reconstructed soon, quiet similar to rebalancing of classes.


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#41 flukeSG2

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 04:17 PM

Putting an orb to open main gate in the Base of Advancement is not a good idea, the whole purpose of the gate is to prevent attacking guilds to easily reach the upper part of the map and we all know how easily attacking guilds can reach BoA in the first minute of WOE, in a much faster way than any other defending guild. It would turn the main gate as a small obstacle to overcome, which is not its original purpose.

 

Other than that, I agree with everything else. Give a new meaning to the bases in prontera and fix this siege weapon spam.

 

Slightly off topic, but as of right now it's next to impossible to hit the orb to open it with the defending guilds assigning at least 3 people to aoe non stop, there is simply no other way to open it.  Giving the upper defending guilds opportunity to heavily defend the main gate and block intruders there.

 

However, maybe with just the addition of the single flying kafra from BoA allowing for a small incursion to happen, it would spread things out leveling the playing field for everyone across the map.  They can still defend main gate and the orb.  This gives some meaning to ownership of BoA now.


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#42 Jagaimolicious

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 04:30 PM

Is it me or if you read the comments of people, YOU"'LL FIND OUT THAT THEY ARE USING AND ARE ABUSING THE SAID "LOADING ISSUE" By spamming siege weapons???

REMOVAL OF SIEGE WEAPONS..... YES.
REMOVAL OF GUARDIANS . . .  NO.
REMOVAL OF ECALL.... STUPID IDEA.

FIXING THE GAME???? Actually will FIX all of this. Just saying.

Instead of coming up for more lame ideas to make OLD/EXISTING PLAYERS DO MORE GRINDING for BOXES and What not, why not fix the game, BAN ALL ABUSERS, REBALANCE CLASSES, and RO2 will definitely get more players.

well, IMO this is just a dream unless BILL GATES DONATE $20M to WP.


Oh, here's a screenshot, try and find your way to the emp ^_^
84bUPE2.jpg

84bUPE2.jpg

why don't you take some screenies at prontera fort's too? I can still see the emp in your ss.


Edited by Jagaimolicious, 01 February 2015 - 04:40 PM.

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#43 5318130516144610857

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 04:56 PM

Hmm, I don't know... the strenght of the attacking guilds should be their numbers, and the main problem in attacking the main gate is the risk of being 1shotted by defending siege weapons. In the inception of WOE, BoA was there to give a HP buff to one attacking guild to avoid siege 1shots, and thus increase the chances of of that guild to break the gate and penetrate towards the upper parts of the map. That's why it is called Advancement...

 

What you suggest is basically putting a new battle front in BoA. Defenders must fly down and protect that place as it is of vital importance for them to keep BoA free of attackers. If this suggestion ever comes forward my concern would be to have equal opportunity in both sides to reach the base at the same time. But even so I'm not sure how it'll turn out... I'm not very keen on this idea. Defenders should protect what is there to protect them (gates, guardians, and the forts/castle themselves), not to fly down to lower parts of the map to defend an Orb that is almost given away as a free candy to attacking guilds.


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#44 5318130516144610857

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 05:09 PM

Just to add some more on this offtopic, personally I think how it is now is good enough. Whoever controls Southern fort has a great power over how WoE unfolds, by either allying with defending or attacking guilds. There can be a strong diplomacy relation there that is interesting enough imo, there is no need to add something new that doesn't really fit well in the WoE mechanics from my point of view.


Edited by 5318130516144610857, 01 February 2015 - 05:12 PM.

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#45 Mishhan

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 07:17 PM

yeah, i was also asking WP about sieges spam, i also have send some screenies, but support just reply that it was a "Strategy" but to me i think it not. more catapult makes player more laggy, having problem graphic failing. i already send some ticker to WP but they just replied that it was my hard ware problem. well im ok if they remove seiges, 

 

10974159_10203419973928034_7079589398175


Edited by Mishhan, 01 February 2015 - 07:20 PM.

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#46 faku1810

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 06:19 AM

Hmm, I don't know... the strenght of the attacking guilds should be their numbers, and the main problem in attacking the main gate is the risk of being 1shotted by defending siege weapons. In the inception of WOE, BoA was there to give a HP buff to one attacking guild to avoid siege 1shots, and thus increase the chances of of that guild to break the gate and penetrate towards the upper parts of the map. That's why it is called Advancement...

 

What you suggest is basically putting a new battle front in BoA. Defenders must fly down and protect that place as it is of vital importance for them to keep BoA free of attackers. If this suggestion ever comes forward my concern would be to have equal opportunity in both sides to reach the base at the same time. But even so I'm not sure how it'll turn out... I'm not very keen on this idea. Defenders should protect what is there to protect them (gates, guardians, and the forts/castle themselves), not to fly down to lower parts of the map to defend an Orb that is almost given away as a free candy to attacking guilds.

 

He didn't mean a kafra flight to defend the orb, but rather a kafra flight to use instead of breaking the door, to allow for "small" sneak attacks. So, instead of the orb in the BoA, have a broom there that'd take only one guild over the walls.

 

They aren't really sneak attacks though, unless there isn't any NPC or clear landmark on the destination. Otherwise defending guilds would just send a few people there and wait to kill whoever comes, since kafra brooms remove Hide.


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#47 5318130516144610857

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:03 AM

Hmm yeah, I understood it the other way around because it would be more logical that way. The other way, like yo usaid, can be countered very easily making the kafra flight pointless in the end.


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#48 deathdelete

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 03:20 PM

Rollback to Lots, all problems solved
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#49 Greven79

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 08:22 AM

Uh, so basically, ur saying dont fix this siege abuse and let other guilds walk inside forts. Seems legit. Thing I wanted to say was, u can only enter to forts with recall cuz of this mass siege gear abuse, yet cuz of slow load u cant act at all. Problem with woe is not really recall at this point, when every fort owner are doing this

 

No, I said something else!

 

Let's face the truth: As long as Urgent Recall exists, the only strategy will be to teleport near the emp, to 'zer'g it and then die, just to repeat this over and over again.

 

Fixing the stacking issue is necessary, but it won't stop this sillyness (and the lag issues). So I'd rather remove Urgent Recall (which helps to fix the stacking issues) and nerf the Siege Weapons instead. But it's also about whether you want PvP or not? And good PvP only exists, if one side has to bypass defending players or if they have a time-consuming task that can be interrupted by players.

(Just imagine, if you couldn't attack the emp, but have to 'deconstruct' it by clicking on it several times, just like gathering mats => zerging the emp via UR would be impossible)..

 

And I already gave a few hints, how to remove/lower the stacking issue:

  • Add a casting time or 10sec cooldown to build siege weapons
    This might at least limit the abuse to one siege weapon per teleported player.
     
  • Restrict the number of siege weapons
    Fewer siege weapons = shorter lag = less opportunities to exploit it
     
  • Silence players for a few seconds right after the teleport
    Add a damage reduction as a compensation... just a bit like entering a new map. This reduces the issue even further.

And if you include the emps/orbs in the check where to place siege weapons, you eliminated that problem as well.

 

The best thing is, every idea I mentioned here is easy to implement! We could even have them within a week or two!

(Much easier than to actually fix the synchronization issues)

 

But all these 'fixes' won't help with the Urgent Recall sillyness. Beside avoiding entrance camping, I haven't heard a reasonable argument for that skill. And if it helps to remove the stacking issue as well, why not remove it and focus on the remaining issues instead? THAT might eventually lead towards an enjoyable WoE.

 

Now you are making sense!  I can get on board with all of that, except the /remove, just relocate the orb to.... BOA!!!!!  Wow, so BoA would actually have some meaning!

 

I say relocate because simply breaking the gate might not be feasible if the defending guilds act fast enough, you can put up an impenetrable layer of defense above the gate, there needs to be an alternative method to bring it down.

 

The reason why I want to remove the orb is to prevent that the owner of the south fortress can easily open the gate. The gate should be the main tool to separate forces during the first minutes of WoE, so noone should be able to bypass it easily. If the gate is such an issue, I'd rather give the ram a high damage reduction against ranged/magical/siege weapon attacks (see goblin leader). (... or further improve the defense stone statues).

 

Beside that, it's also important to prevent that the largest guild holds the south fortress, rushes towards the normal entrances right after WoE starts and camps there, so I'm not that confortable about that fort in general.


Edited by Greven79, 05 February 2015 - 09:18 AM.

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#50 AsriXII

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 02:38 PM

Without e-call, you never reach castle.  You think with just 20-30 ppl can defeat a big alliance which consist more than 100+ during woe? a lot of defending guild would camp at the entrance and kill all of you. If half of you manage to survive and manage to reach one of the fortress. the defending guild would simply warp to their fortress and easy to wipe out the remaining of you. 

 


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