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Just an idea about new wizard skills


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#1 v0r10n

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 02:47 AM

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#2 Greven79

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 02:36 PM

Fire Tornado: Is it an AoE, a zone like LoR or more like the typical PvE tornados (slow moving Falcon Assault like skills)?

 

Gravity Field: Do you mean a zone effect (LoR) granting armor penetration or something that actually deals damage?

 

Fire Armor: Damage reflection doesn't work well with damage reduction, unless you want to make it based on the 'original' damage before any defense.

 

And of course, such a 'return to sender' condition is harder to implement than Evanesco (which is a debuff). F.e. what about ranged attacks, DoTs, zone effects like Land of Darkness, Falcon Assault, siege weapon hits. Is the damage reflected in these cases? What's about reflecting reflected damage or about reflected damage being reduced by armor and damage reduction again (a Warrior with 75% defense rate blocking the 20% of his own Rage Strike). So can the reflected damage be parried?

 

So just for the use case of reflecting PvP overkills, it's hard to justify the effort. Because in any other case (reflecting an average attacks), a normal mass-DoT would do the trick as well.

 

Flame Explosion: Well, it would be a 1155% skill that can be boosted... Wouldn't be more broken than a Sacrifice or RoG. Would require a higher cooldown though and the auto-crit. via Seal Explosion would need a second thought.

 

All in all, I would miss my Frost Nova and still miss drastical changes for the existing skills (f.e. there is no need that Inferno has a 30sec cooldown, would make Meteor Storm similar to Land of Darkness => short cast time, hits every 2sec & stays for 10sec, as well as making Fireball an AoE and Thunderstorm the hits-like-a-truck skill instead).


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#3 v0r10n

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 07:50 AM

Fire Tornado:  Can be like Crescentia's Earth Worm - Cast on enemy if in range of 5 meters from enemy is another he gets affected by tornato to.

Fire Armor: Yeah i think dmg reflection can be a problem what if - Fire Armor: Insta Cast- Once casted the Caster getting a shield from fire that reduce 50% of incoming dmg and becomes imune to any cc for 10 seconds.


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#4 v0r10n

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 07:53 AM

All in all, I would miss my Frost Nova and still miss drastical changes for the existing skills (f.e. there is no need that Inferno has a 30sec cooldown, would make Meteor Storm similar to Land of Darkness => short cast time, hits every 2sec & stays for 10sec, as well as making Fireball an AoE and Thunderstorm the hits-like-a-truck skill instead).

 Frost Nova can miss and  dont protect u at all from range casters


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#5 HokaHoka

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:57 PM

Gravity Field seems like a buff that's active after Teleport is used. You know, instead of granting speed (Levitation), it grants you a chance to turn the table.

 

Ouch, if Fireball's damage becomes a splash damage, that will be troublesome in PVE. You'll aggro unnecessary mobs (solo-play scenario).

 

Kudos to you V0r10n. I hope the devs see this.


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#6 v0r10n

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:30 AM

I sent a ticket with the same info like here, but i dont think they even considered it, anyway since the people will not reply or more(visit)  wizard topic we are going to be forgot by the devs and newer will get fixed

 


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#7 Sowlemia

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 08:46 AM

At this moment the skills you brought up are a bit unfair in my opinion. Wizard has not to be strong like that i mean.:

 

1: Wizard class is supposed to be a paper.

2: Wizard is supposed to have strong dammages

3: Wizard is not sppused to be able to heal.

4: Wizard tactic is based on moves and tactic.

 

I will bring here some points that we have to work on, the ice wall skill is really usefull and fair, it's not so op since wizard class cannot attack during the process but they won't be able to take dammages as well then it's fair. the problem is not about the concept but about the "CoolDown". if you have icewall maxed out 5/5 you will probably have 2 minutes and some seconds Cooldown remaining  once used, which is too much and not balanced.

 

if we look at the dammages given by a wizard, youc an notice that "Fireball" (dot) for sorc or wiz is the same, Wizard is not supposed to deal the same dammages than a sorc, in my opinion, i would say that fireball should deal 20% more dammages for wizard than sorc classes.

 

As a wizard of course you're not tupposed to heal, which is fair. The point i bring here= the seal skill, the only one problem again= the cooldown which is not fair because of the time requiered to land it.

 

"Flame explosion": that skill is broken, sometimes it deals a big crit, sometimes no (for those cases i will only talk when seal explosion is active) else, without seal explosion, flame explosion would be sort of useless. that skill needs to be re-worked and fixed and the main point rest the way and time requiered in order to be able to land it, 100 flame is a bit op, i would tend to say that 40 flames or maximum 50 should be fair.

 

there are some other points about wizard which need to be re-worked as well. but i brought here some of the points.


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#8 galeboizky

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:05 PM

when wil this  rework will be implement :D


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#9 Emilizzard

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 07:43 PM

I hope the devs see this.

 

The devs themselves don't look at the forums, but I (occasionally) do and am in the process of re-working the Wizard skills and tree. Discussion in this topic will be nice to follow, and I'm glad to see there are others interested in improving the class with a potential skill rework.

 

1: Wizard class is supposed to be a paper.

2: Wizard is supposed to have strong dammages

3: Wizard is not sppused to be able to heal.

4: Wizard tactic is based on moves and tactic.

 

This is fairly accurate based on discussions I've had with Njoror. Wizard would have been intended to be a "glass cannon" and I intend to see that it gets built like that as I go through my re-work project. The movement portion is supported by the existence of Teleport and Levitation. Basically, hitting the nail on the head with this one.

 

if we look at the dammages given by a wizard, youc an notice that "Fireball" (dot) for sorc or wiz is the same, Wizard is not supposed to deal the same dammages than a sorc, in my opinion, i would say that fireball should deal 20% more dammages for wizard than sorc classes.

 

I have thought of adding a mastery skill for fireball to the Wizard portion of the fire tree that would unlock the true potential of Fire Ball, allowing Sorcerers access to the Mage version, but only giving Wizards the full power. I have also considered moving the skill itself to the Wizard tree. I've put both options up for discussion in my VCR re-work setup (the bulk of this work will be in the new term that will be starting soon).

 

when wil this  rework will be implement :D

 

Haha, I'm glad you're excited for Wizards to be re-worked! However, any re-work will need to:

  • Be balanced within the class itself
  • Be balanced with other classes
  • Be approved by the development team

I am aware that many people lose all hope when the developers are mentioned, however, it has been found that a complete idea proposal will go much smoother, as it only needs to be approved to be added. On the other hand, a generic request or idea would need to be approved, designed, and added - and the design takes a lot of work, probably away from their pre-existing development schedule. Our current re-work project is to make the re-work of all classes as balanced as possible, then submit them all to the developers at the same time. At that point, it would only need to be approved and then added. It is possible, but the VCRs and interested community members need to do a lot of legwork.

 

As I've mentioned in the other thread just now, VCR applications are opening up soon. We'll need people who are passionate about Wizard, the game, and the community to join us in taking another attempt at balancing the classes, and I encourage anybody interested in applying. It's actually a lot of fun even though it is still quite a bit of work!

 

I'll be trying to keep up with this forum better now that I know there's interest, and look forward to discussing these things with you guys more in the future.

  :p_hi:


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#10 v0r10n

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 07:47 AM

As I've mentioned in the other thread just now, VCR applications are opening up soon. We'll need people who are passionate about Wizard, the game, and the community to join us in taking another attempt at balancing the classes, and I encourage anybody interested in applying. It's actually a lot of fun even though it is still quite a bit of work!

 

 

So soon VCR application will reopen? good to know that since i play almost all the time with my Wizzard and really care about his future  i would like to apply


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#11 Emilizzard

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 09:42 AM

So soon VCR application will reopen? good to know that since i play almost all the time with my Wizzard and really care about his future  i would like to apply

 

Yup! Keep an eye on the Community Chat section of the forums, I think it's supposed to go up sometime today.  :no1:


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#12 v0r10n

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 10:04 AM

I have thought of adding a mastery skill for fireball to the Wizard portion of the fire tree that would unlock the true potential of Fire Ball, allowing Sorcerers access to the Mage version, but only giving Wizards the full power. I have also considered moving the skill itself to the Wizard tree. I've put both options up for discussion in my VCR re-work setup (the bulk of this work will be in the new term that will be starting soon).

 There is no need of another buff, they just should make the fireball like premaster level for sorc i mean let them have fireball but only 3/3 so the fireball will do half dmg.


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#13 Emilizzard

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 10:06 AM

 There is no need of another buff, they just should make the fireball like premaster level for sorc i mean let them have fireball but only 3/3 so the fireball will do half dmg.

 

That would be part of the adjustment - Fireball would go 3/3 for both Wizard and Sorcerer, but then Wizard would get a mastery skill to effectively bring it to 6/6. The way the classes are set up, one class can't have a skill at 3 points and the other class have it at 6 - that's why we also get a LBolt and TStorm increased, because it was increased mainly for Sorcs.


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#14 1633130515105152960

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 12:11 PM

That would be part of the adjustment - Fireball would go 3/3 for both Wizard and Sorcerer, but then Wizard would get a mastery skill to effectively bring it to 6/6. The way the classes are set up, one class can't have a skill at 3 points and the other class have it at 6 - that's why we also get a LBolt and TStorm increased, because it was increased mainly for Sorcs.

 

Lightning Bolt lv10 for wizards is fine, we need it to use with frost driver (useful combination for PVP).
Sorcerers need Cold Bolt Lv10 instead Lightning Bolt lv10, for frozen enemies it's better to Jupitel Thunder or Varetyr Spear.
 


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#15 Emilizzard

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 02:27 PM

Lightning Bolt lv10 for wizards is fine, we need it to use with frost driver (useful combination for PVP).
Sorcerers need Cold Bolt Lv10 instead Lightning Bolt lv10, for frozen enemies it's better to Jupitel Thunder or Varetyr Spear.
 

 

Honestly this is the first time I've heard of somebody other than me using lv10 LBolt on a Wiz :o I was always told "Blitz skills are garbage/waste of points"

I still like using LBolt on my Sorc because of the fast cast, cooldown, and ability to move while using it. To me, more casts = more chance to proc JT (since I don't use Wind Emblem, I tend to use Water or Earth).

 

At any rate, I took a look at the other classes and how they handle base class skills (Swordsman & Thief), and the point increase is on the same skills for both. I'm not sure changing the increase for Wizard and not for Sorcerer would be possible.

 

I hope that makes sense  :p_laugh:


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#16 1633130515105152960

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 06:51 AM

Honestly this is the first time I've heard of somebody other than me using lv10 LBolt on a Wiz :o I was always told "Blitz skills are garbage/waste of points"

I still like using LBolt on my Sorc because of the fast cast, cooldown, and ability to move while using it. To me, more casts = more chance to proc JT (since I don't use Wind Emblem, I tend to use Water or Earth).

 

At any rate, I took a look at the other classes and how they handle base class skills (Swordsman & Thief), and the point increase is on the same skills for both. I'm not sure changing the increase for Wizard and not for Sorcerer would be possible.

 

I hope that makes sense  :p_laugh:

 

o.o I didn't notice the change in JT Mastery. I don't use my sorcerer so much, but i like to use Cold Bolt + Wind Emblem + Jupitel Thunder combo. Well, Lightning Bolt is an useful skill for both classes, but I would like sorcerers have lv10 Cold Bolt too :)


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#17 Emilizzard

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 08:18 AM

I'll have to talk to the Sorcerers about it all once we really get started with this. I'm hoping to be working closely with them, especially when talking about Magician skills, since it affects both classes. I'd like to find a system that really benefits both, without having the "best skills" in Magician tree.

 

Especially since I really want Fireball to be a Wizard-only skill, I don't want to make them too mad :P

 

Hopefully we'll figure something out~

 

:hmm:


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#18 Greven79

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 03:51 PM

I won't comment the suggestions this time, because for me the following two are the most important one:

 

1: Wizard class is supposed to be a paper.

2: Wizard is supposed to have strong dammages

3: Wizard is not sppused to be able to heal.

4: Wizard tactic is based on moves and tactic.

 

Wizard would have been intended to be a "glass cannon" and I intend to see that it gets built like that as I go through my re-work project. The movement portion is supported by the existence of Teleport and Levitation. Basically, hitting the nail on the head with this one.

 

That's the point where I want to intervene.

 

Whenever I hear the expression 'glass cannon', my fingers start itching. That's because this trope is misused regularly. Players get it wrong, when they think it means to be speedy or dodgy. That would leave this class without a real weakness. Defense would be only replaced by a different form of self-protection: parry with dodge, armor with speed.

 

A good example is Dark Souls 1. There, it was a common strategy to take the armor off before starting a boss fight, simply because a well-timed roll to the side was more efficient than any armor. In Ragnarok 2, the pre-AoV ranger is another good example for that 'inbalance'. The speed bonus, combined with a fast attack that slows opponents, an additional backflip and powerful pots made him superior in Colo. Much better than any tank. He denied attacks rather than soaking the damage.

 

And I see the same signs here as well!

 

In my opinion, a Wizard wasn't original designed to be a glass cannon. He's more a control & artillery type. A better symbol would be a guy equipped with a magical version of a flame-thrower, RPG or gattling gun. So his main weakness isn't the lack of defense, it's actually the lack of mobility. Then, it's ok to have efficient, but dedicated defensive skills. Freezing opponents assures that they won't get swarmed. And they can survive even the deadliest hit when they turtle themself in ice.

 

Sure, this isn't an argument against switching the class concept. But then, it would be interesting to know what role the other classes would get. How do you differentiate between Rangers & Wizards f.e. and who deserves it to be the 'glass cannon'.

_______________

 

That's why I started by allocating stereotypes, not with actual skill ideas.

 

There are 12 different classes in RO2 and also 12 signs of zodiac (eastern or western) and 24 different runes in the alphabet (elder futhark). Quite easy to associate them, just like the manga "Fruits Basket" did. And once you gave classes stereotypic character traits, it should be easier to come up with suitable skills.


Edited by Greven79, 19 February 2015 - 11:40 AM.

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