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[Rebalance] Do Assassins need a change?


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#1 faku1810

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 10:27 PM

Assassin Balance Feedback

 

Hello there people, for this next VCR term we're working on Class rebalance, focusing on all the classes at the same time to make sure there aren't "flavor of the month" classes anymore. And for this, we want to hear the community's voice.

 

Please use the following format when posting. It's okay if you don't main an assassin, but please post only if you have tried the class enough to know how your changes (or others) would affect it.

 

IGN:

Skill:

Feedback: Whatever you feel about this skill, if you can add a video or screenshot to further show your point, that's awesome. You can take Screenshots with Print Screen on your keyboard, and find them on the RO2 Screenshots folder (or just use Lightshot and get a link ready to share). Or if you want to make videos but don't know how, refer to Tonitrua's guide for it.

 

You may include several skills in your post, but if it becomes too long, please use spoilers to facilitate reading. Keep in mind that things like "it's too op" or "It's broken" don't really help, it has to be constructive and detailed feedback so we can discuss it and see what can be changed about it. The more info we have, the better; and on that note, you don't have to limit yourself to skills. Give feedback on whatever you think would contribute to balance (regarding assassins)

 

To help a bit, I will add the feedback posted in this thread to the bottom of this post, so anyone can have a quick look to know if their concerns have been brought up previously. If you have something to add to a previously given feedback, feel free to do so, I'll condense all related posts under a single spoiler.

 

If there's anything that wasn't clear or if you have any doubts, feel free to ask.

 

Skills & Descriptions (with values per level for reference)

 

Thief - Keep in mind these are shared with Rogue.

Spoiler

 

Assassin

Spoiler

 

 

Community Given Feedback

 

Skills

 

Spoiler

Edited by faku1810, 07 March 2015 - 10:29 PM.

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#2 9856140124180903013

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 08:27 AM

IGN: TodaiYamikage

Skill: Grimtooth

Feedback: ​I agree greatly with what Raikuha says about grimtooth: "The skill has high damage output, is our self heal skill, it helps building up to 5 combo points with a single attack, and it slows down the target."

Personally though I think the CD on this move should be docked down a bit, I use this more often when I'm on my own without a healer and it comes in real handy but the slow CD makes grinding pretty hard especially when you reach late game on ML. Also it's a bit sad that between this and Shadow Fang that this deals more damage. I think with the amount of benefits this move gives you can drop the damage a bit (maybe 5%, I don't have the skill maxed so I don't know if this this too much or enough).

 

IGN: TodaiYamikage

Skill: Shadow Fang

Feedback: The biggest downfall for this skill has to be the fact that it needs a target. I honestly would skip this skill if it wasn't for the fact that I'm primary a solo player and thus need the extra AoE. But even with that this skill is super weak at lv.1. It deals 88% of your attack and another 2% for each combo point you have. So you can reach about a 98% damage if you only leave this move at lv.1. Compare that to Grimtooth where you deal 332%, I think you can bump the damage up a bit.

Overall if you can remove the need for a target and bump the damage it deals up a bit that would help a lot..

 

IGN: TodaiYamikgae

Skill: Stealth skills in general

Feedback: Over all I love these skills, and I think it works out fine and is pretty balanced, the only issue I have is you can no longer pick up items and remain stealth-ed. It is annoying especially for when you are trying to get profession items only to be attacked by something aggressive not even halfway through gathering. If you can return that remaining stealth-ed to pick up items that would be really nice.

 

 


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#3 DPSwannabe

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 08:28 AM

IGN: xLaFerrari

Skill: Poison Weapon

Feedback: Seriously needs some buff. What element do you think of when you hear the assassin/thief class? its poison, and how many assassins do we know that has this skill? zip. nada. or maybe 1/10 which tells us something is seriously wrong with this skill. A nice suggestion is not really to buff its damage but to add effects for being inflicted with poison. Anywhere from additional damage taken by the target upto reduced movement/cast/vigor/atk speed/power would be nice. not saying to buff it too much, im just saying something needs to be added to this skill to make the skill worth it.

 

Skill: Shadow Fang

Feedback: Assassins are never meant to deal so much aoe dmg so the damage is good as it is (nowhere near brandish and grand cross tho), but the animation of this skill really really needs a rework. An omnislash effect style would be sweet but maybe its too pretty :D


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#4 faku1810

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 09:25 PM

 

IGN: TodaiYamikage

Skill: Grimtooth

Feedback: ​I agree greatly with what Raikuha says about grimtooth: "The skill has high damage output, is our self heal skill, it helps building up to 5 combo points with a single attack, and it slows down the target."

Personally though I think the CD on this move should be docked down a bit, I use this more often when I'm on my own without a healer and it comes in real handy but the slow CD makes grinding pretty hard especially when you reach late game on ML. Also it's a bit sad that between this and Shadow Fang that this deals more damage. I think with the amount of benefits this move gives you can drop the damage a bit (maybe 5%, I don't have the skill maxed so I don't know if this this too much or enough).


IGN: TodaiYamikgae

Skill: Stealth skills in general

Feedback: Over all I love these skills, and I think it works out fine and is pretty balanced, the only issue I have is you can no longer pick up items and remain stealth-ed. It is annoying especially for when you are trying to get profession items only to be attacked by something aggressive not even halfway through gathering. If you can return that remaining stealth-ed to pick up items that would be really nice.

 

 

The cooldown of Grimtooth depends on your vigor and it gets easy to get that as a ML. But I agree, even though the heal ammount (20%) is good, having to wait those seconds is stressful when you're facing an enemy that you know that can kill you (mostly when you try to grind). I eventually semi-replaced (or complemented) my Grimtooth heal with pet heals, so if i grind solo in DW I usually use Elder right after the first attack and leave Grim for emergencies.

Lower CD could be an option but the heal ammount should then depend on the level of the skill, otherwise it wouldn't be balanced. The damage has to be lowered though, there's no way we can have balance with that skill damage (Btw, you can check the spoiler in the Original post to see how much damage it does in each level).

 

Regarding hide, I have to say (and probably 99% of sins will be against me) that the "unhide" while gathering materials isn't that bad. You only need to choose better what and when to kill; besides it did offer a certain unfair advantage in some quests because you could even gather an item that was protected by a Boss in DWU without having to fight it.

 

 

 

IGN: TodaiYamikage

Skill: Shadow Fang

Feedback: The biggest downfall for this skill has to be the fact that it needs a target. I honestly would skip this skill if it wasn't for the fact that I'm primary a solo player and thus need the extra AoE. But even with that this skill is super weak at lv.1. It deals 88% of your attack and another 2% for each combo point you have. So you can reach about a 98% damage if you only leave this move at lv.1. Compare that to Grimtooth where you deal 332%, I think you can bump the damage up a bit.

Overall if you can remove the need for a target and bump the damage it deals up a bit that would help a lot..

 

 

IGN: xLaFerrari

Skill: Poison Weapon

Feedback: Seriously needs some buff. What element do you think of when you hear the assassin/thief class? its poison, and how many assassins do we know that has this skill? zip. nada. or maybe 1/10 which tells us something is seriously wrong with this skill. A nice suggestion is not really to buff its damage but to add effects for being inflicted with poison. Anywhere from additional damage taken by the target upto reduced movement/cast/vigor/atk speed/power would be nice. not saying to buff it too much, im just saying something needs to be added to this skill to make the skill worth it.

 

Skill: Shadow Fang

Feedback: Assassins are never meant to deal so much aoe dmg so the damage is good as it is (nowhere near brandish and grand cross tho), but the animation of this skill really really needs a rework. An omnislash effect style would be sweet but maybe its too pretty :D

 

 

Regarding Shadow Fang, I kinda want to disagree. We're a DPS class, and the game is forcing us to party and use AoEs. So unless the game is changed to allow players to level up even if they only kill one mob at a time without a party (and it has to change, ofc, but in the meantime...) i think we should have at least a better AoE damage than tank classes. Of course that we'd still be below Cres, Wiz, and other dps classes in average because our focus is single-dps. But currently, even with crits the skill doesn't do much damage and that's even with the proper element, which is thrown out of the window once you hit DWU and FP.

 

I don't want sins to be just "lurers" when we're actually assassins, we're supposed to deal damage, but right now we can be outdps'd by almost any class XD

 

As for the poison weapon, I agree that it needs reworks, but i wouldn't go as far as rework the poison debuff itself; one of the things i thought was merging PW with Throw dagger, something like replacing the % chance, for a 100% chance to poison the enemy when you hit with Throw Dagger, but with a higher cooldown. Since that skill is already a low damage skill that most (if any) use only when they need to lure a single target.


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#5 602130608175754197

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Posted 16 May 2015 - 09:43 PM

IGN: Shadowll

Stat: STR

 

I propose 1 STR = 1 Attack Power

This class has a lot of advantage in pvp.

Just enough to have 5 osiris cards + weapon +10-20 to kill oneshot people with a ratio of 85 % defense or more.

it's not fair to the other classes

 

 

sorry for my bad english

 


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#6 Tenderloin

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 05:45 AM

IGN: Shadowll

Stat: STR

 

I propose 1 STR = 1 Attack Power

This class has a lot of advantage in pvp.

Just enough to have 5 osiris cards + weapon +10-20 to kill oneshot people with a ratio of 85 % defense or more.

it's not fair to the other classes

 

 

sorry for my bad english

 

nerf penetration not STR , it's not fair oneshot tanker class using normal skill(crossimpact/grimtooth) ..
 


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#7 Greven79

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 06:04 AM

ATK isn't as effective as it seems.

 

Currently, 10~11 ATK will result in +1 weapon damage.

 

At higher levels, you'll get a lot of ATK, but other things are just more effective.

 

An example:

Even if you have 2k STR (= 4k ATK), that's equivalent to +380 weapon damage.

An Eddga Claw deals 1208~1245 damage, so all your STR result in a roughly a 30% damage boost.

 

Compare that with the bonuses:

  • +20 weapon refinement
  • power 40% greenseeds
  • CLS runes
  • ...

Iit might also be good to know that the damage of a few skills was increased lately. In case of Cross Impact f.e. by was almost tripled.

 

 

So hopefull, you'll see that the Atk/Str bonus isn't the true troublemaker! However, it might still be advisable to make this ATK bonus level-dependant to make it scale differently.... just think about how effective a "STR I potion" is.


Edited by Greven79, 11 June 2015 - 08:02 AM.

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#8 Tenderloin

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 04:55 PM

delete penetration but give assasin/rogue a chance to lethal attack or half kill someone with low chance like 5% stun monk


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#9 Shinyusuke

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 11:50 PM

why not something more equal?

why don't make penetration to decrease the defence in %?

if penetration decrease the opponent defence in %  it will be more active on tank classes but less effective on dps classes anyway tank still would have higher hp to compensate and dps less damage increase to compensate.

EXAMPLE lets imagine an assassing has a 10% penetration and this is applied on the defence not as a mere subtraction but a real %

75% def of a tank will be 75%- (10% of 75)%= (75-7.5)%= 67.5 %

45%def DPS will become 41.5%

in this way assasins will be more effective against tank classes in terms of damage increase and less effective against meele classes or INT classes, but if we look also at the amount of HP each class has we would see a balance of the damage dealed respect to the HP of each class.

 

Regarding insead the high amout of damage out of hide that can reach the 4x due to the double damage out of hide and the possible crit why don't just modyfy the skill

in a way that the double damage become a 100% crit shances out of hide?

In this way the assasin will maintain the reasons to use hide but at the same time will avoid the random 1shot that highly affect this game, not to mention that this sistem (100% crit shances out of hide) will grant to crit whit any skill and whatever is the opponent level (good in PVE).

 


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