65 replies to this topic

[asuboy]

dont forget to nerf raider's ability to fast kill calss without critical such clerics and mage. a 45k mana shield is gone in 2 sec. dont forget katar raider's aspeed can go up to 400 , high accuracy, critical damage up to 180% ability to dodge with 6k dodge on glory which is so hard to hit with accuracy 2,3k along . and also their ability to weaken their enemies's crit rate which makes almost 100% critical lockk .. this class is OP also on scout they hit 7k along on a single skil, make is OP when accompanied with 2 or 3 good FS , without a team of cleric a mage still a punching bag . ya I agree on knight' deff . is wayy OP it can literally tank the whole group of 15 players alone .. knight should be tanky but not that tanky .. 

[chunkiddy]

dont forget to nerf raider's ability to fast kill calss without critical such clerics and mage. a 45k mana shield is gone in 2 sec. dont forget katar raider's aspeed can go up to 400 , high accuracy, critical damage up to 180% ability to dodge with 6k dodge on glory which is so hard to hit with accuracy 2,3k along . and also their ability to weaken their enemies's crit rate which makes almost 100% critical lockk .. this class is OP also on scout they hit 7k along on a single skil, make is OP when accompanied with 2 or 3 good FS , without a team of cleric a mage still a punching bag . ya I agree on knight' deff . is wayy OP it can literally tank the whole group of 15 players alone .. knight should be tanky but not that tanky .. 

 

It's not about their def, it's about their new passives.

Do you even play knight?

[borgahutt]

Well, I can return you the same opening sentence!

"What you've just said there is a crazy statement and I can tell you don't play cleric"
Oh wait! you must be playing one as you are a class rep! hmmm

But honestly, you saying that my statements are wrong, and that a team without cleric can win vs a team with an active FS on their side... is like... i d k... unbelievable! It s all about strategy you say...
And asking for damage to be nerfed... but not healings.. is even more... i d k... this is unreal. Feels like i m on some drugs and start reading imaginary stuffs. I will have to double check tomorrow and see if this really happened, but hey! everyone can have their opinions even if it seems like they come from out of space!

As you said : "we are a support class and that s our job to heal and help" this is absolutly true, but it seems you believe this implies that u must be able to make the mate you are healing unkillable, even if he is target by 2 or 3 players... and this is were you are deeply wrong.... once again i ll repeat it, supporting doesn't mean carrying, at least this is what I, and pretty much every mmo devs out there, think about the whole thing...

If a play , Mage, bourg, arti, champ, scout, raider... Is getting ganged by 3 , good luck trying to keep them alive, unless your full charm and will die in one hit yourself. The heals have already been dropped before, we have to build survivability for ourselves, not just be full charm and spam, and the party heals for example aren't that high anyway, to be honest the flames help more...

[Ahya]

You seem to believe I m suggesting a dmg reduction only on skills.... but that is not the case at all. A normal hit katar Raider would also see his DPS reduced by 33% on a single target. I do recognize it would make every single target classes more competitive in the PVM part of the game... wich is not a bad thing is it? Nowadays be it for leveling or mobs clearing, everyone want aoes aoes aoes, and this has to change indeed.

 

I do talk about nerfing heals, because indeed they are way way way too high. In most games healing have a way lower burst, ( if not absolutly 100% of other mmos!) and makes Healing over Time being something to consider. You do say 12k healings are nothing? well... it s 80% of my HP bar.... this is absolutly not about the dmg curve, but about the actual HP% it represents.

And the healing nerf would come along with a damage nerf, leaving more reaction time for cleric to target the right mate, and help him out in tough situations.

 

And once again, this is not a Mage thread.

 

Here I go again, answering to someone who absolutly didn't read or tried to understand what I tried to suggest, making assumptions on me wanting the Raider class to be on top! hahahaha that made me laugh indeed, not everyone is this low you know.

 

To be very honest, the reduction of all AOEs by 66% and all single targets (including normal atk) by 33% would put the AOE classes at a grave disadvantage, far from acceptable level of balance we have now. Mages, Bourgs and Champions, including other AOE classes, would only serve to dish out widespread initial damage, thus giving the single target classes their opportunity to close in for the kill. As it is now, Raiders still happen to do more kills than mages, implementing your ideas will push it way further to the side of the Raiders and other single target classes that are fast enough to steal kills from right under the very noses of AOE people. Not saying that you want to push it for the Raider class, just saying that what you want will indirectly put the crown on the Raider class.

 

It just so happened that the damage output seems too high for everyone because there are seldom TWO groups able to last against each other. It's very nice actually, than letting a mere random mob of players be able to do a long clash against a different group. As we are now, only TWO powerful and skilled groups with a decent variation in classes are capable of a massive, drawn-out clash. It encourages grouping with your friends against an enemy who groups with his friends.

 

 

What I did point out, is that damages need to be nerfed. The circumstances behind it are just that... damage output is too high? LOL 

It has nothing to do with incompetence, it has to do with skill spamming, aoe spamming... you know... all those things?

 

You are very determined in talking about mages.... fine. I never complained that much about Mages myself. I do believe their tank/aoe dmg ratio is a bit out of place and that is precisely why I make my proposals, along with the fact other AOE classes have a way much advantages over pure single target classes.

I do not even want to nerf mana shield! as I tried to explain you on my last reply, this would even be a virtual buff to it... so I really cannot understand where your answer comes from... getting all defensive and acting like it was another attempt to touch your precious class.. like if you wanted to keep your precious toy.

 

You claim you understand your class problems... that s good for you I guess, but that s really not at all the point of this thread.

 

Ofcourse those changes would impact Mages, along with every other classes, but not in such a bad way I believe. 

 

It isn't just skill spamming and aoe spamming. An idiot doing just that won't perform really well.

 

I keep on focusing on the Clerics and the Mages because it's your reason and opinion behind them that is backed by nothing more than incompetence. AOE classes have their own kind of advantage against single target classes, but so do the single target classes have an advantage against AOE classes. The only scenario where this doesn't fit as perfectly as the others is the Mage, because their attack is magic hence their greater damage on physical classes. Note that Mage AOEs are generally weaker than their single targets, and the strongest Mage AOE is a self AOE, thereby forgoing the benefit of range to do more damage, thus risking his life. Plus, the Mage is so vulnerable to physical attacks; even with a full mana shield Mage can easily be killed given the right push.

 

It won't be a virtual buff. What you want to happen will be the one to throw the survival/AOE damage ratio (it's not even supposed to be called "TANK") off balance. This is what you fail to understand. I do believe that you don't play Mage.

 

 

A reduce of 66% on aoes means a reduction on most of skills which is REALLY high dmg recution while a 33% reduction in skills and dps is only half the dmg reduced that you are suggesting to skills makes absolutly no sense at all

 

There is only 1 heal with the potential to heal 12k (ON FAIRLY HIGH CHARM SET) a skill which not only that but also is SINGLE TARGET and has a cooldown of 12.0 seconds. If you ever played FS after the current changes you would see how is not broken at all when your enemies can EASILY make 7k dmg on you.

 

Agreed.

 

 

I agree on some things, and not others.

 

When I first tried this patch I was more into the "1v1 pvp" side of things. Now I am all about the clan vs clan war, and for wars and game arena I find this so much better I mean for scouts it sucks because they get 3 hit etc that all needs fixed, but for classes like axe champs, mages, raiders, battle clerics, cannon bourgs, knights they are all outputting equal damages fairly. or have passive abilitys to deal with that.

 

Scouts on the other hand get slaughtered left right and center they have impact arrow and phoenix arrow which does a decent amount of damage, but if it misses or something GG because they have no tanking ability.

 

I personally have given up on my scout for now as I feel it's too nerfed to stand a chance against any other class.

 

I feel instead of nerfing the damage formula like suggested just fix the classes that need it like gun types and bow scouts?
 

 

Yes.

 

 

You seem to lack experience of playing a cleric.  If a cleric heals 80% of your hp gauge, then it refers to that your hp is low. Which literally implies that you are using one of the class with lowest hp which is raider. And nerfing 66% on aoes and 33% on melee hits also makes me think that your post is in favor of katar raiders

 

And healing 80% is not necessarily true on all classes. There are wounded stacks that you can counter with cleric heals, which reduce the hp received effectiveness. Your post makes no sense at all.. lol

 

I want to repeat every single thing you've just said. Especially the first sentence.

 

 

Charas, consider this, MAGIC~~~

no seriously, cuz mage hits magic which makes them instantly stronger because of the fact that, again, they hit MAGICCCC, and its different from hitting physical. Its already mentioned by Adya.

Aoes from champs, cannons, guns are not really strong actually. Also with exchange for that power, they have decreased something for sure.

 

Finally, if you're looking at it from a raider point of view..... pfffffffffff

If you're looking in general, you will need to rethink your scaling. Like i said, test your own damage against others, provide numbers like what feuer said. Its not always numbers as well, its also the challenge of it. Try all this before trying to decide the scaling of it

 

I'm outta here. No more this post for me. Apparently i'm leaving wrong ideas of what i have in my mind. Sorry for all the misunderstanding. I'll be just sitting here reading everything from everyone. Starting now *eats popcorn*

 

Correct. Our damage is given at the cost of a pitiful survival rate. To increase the latter will decrease the former. We cannot have both at the same time. Those who "see" that Mages can have both at the same time are automatically either decent players contending with WAAAY better players, or incompetent players contending with decent players.

 

 

In your exemple you are comparing a Dual skill, Bloody assault CD 10 sec single target, and an aoe cleric skill : Integrity CD 18 sec AOE heal.

let s say bloody assault hit up to 5k as u suggested, and Integrity 11k HP on a charm spec cleric (using stated geared exalted or reinforced + normal jewelry set=800 to 850 charm)

With the nerf you would be looking at a bloody assault hitting 3350HP vs an AOE heal healing 2750 HP

Please note that this AOE heal potentially heal up to 15 targets in AA = 41250 HP .... CD 18 sec ... so we are looking at  2292 HP/sec (potentially) dealt by 1 cleric using 1 aoe on their team

Bloody assault represent 335 dmg/sec dealt by 1 Raider on 1 oponent

 

In wich universe would it make things being unbalanced?

 

You have to see... I personnally played many many mmos... with a more or less competitive pvp scene... and in no other MMO than ROSE did I see so much power given to healers (and AOEs). Support is good... carrying is horribly game breaking... and as for now, clerics are carrying their team, not supporting them.

You also have to see that ROSE is completly broken AOE wise, most competitive games either limits the number of target being touched by AOEs or limit the hit box of aoes to a really small area. Classes like spear champs, Mages, Bourg... (those are the ones you mentionned) have hard hitting skills in AOE, their DPS is then multiplicated by the number of target they touch and can reach insane amounts. And yes, this too, is game breaking in my opinion.

 

If we extend that to the PVM aspect of the game, the AOEs becomes even more game breaking, a room full of mobs in Hoo... if 1 player was to clear it only using sigle target skill, would take a minimum of 5 minutes, an AOE player can clear it within a minute.. at most.

 

You sound as if you want AOE heals to sum up to only a little more than single target heals (Correct me there if I'm wrong). A cleric is burdened with his entire team, while the raider is only concerned about killing target. With the heavier duties that they have, they rightly should have the proper tools to do it. Of what use will be a cleric that heals so pitifully few compared to the damage of the enemy to his individual teammates just because his AOE heal, when summed up should only be slightly higher than a single target heal?

 

I have played many of them as well, and ROSE isn't the only one that gives so much power to healers. It's their role to provide a massive boost to the team. The boost isn't only in the technical aspects of the game. The presence of a Cleric (FS) kindles the morale of each and every member of the team, because even though the cleric "might" be still new (or sometimes old yet terribly incapable), the buffs and the heals they provide give them a chance of winning.

 

Although the very same thing can happen to those without a Cleric (FS) yet having class buffs, it isn't as big a boost to the chance of victory (still big though), primarily because of the lack of morale and heals.

 

 

I agree with the overall damage output being slightly high for all classes and damage types... HOWEVER... Disagree from a clerics point of view,

And I can say from a clerics rep point of view as I'm guessing you just play all out damage class

We got nerfed good with the block etc, and as damage got higher we didn't get an increase, yes knights did but not clerics, so we had to adapt and yes die quicker... Sometimes playing cleric the damage is so high that a party heal isn't sufficient enough , disregarding how much charm you have, plus keeping yourself alive.

The damage output over all should be adjusted , reduction in heals - no. You would simply be powering up all other classes damage and Knights survivability and then killing clerics off,

killing a few average clerics off in the game isn't a big deal or hard anymore, skill full and clever ones could be a tricky but no way near impossible

On their own any cleric will die - simple

 

While I myself find the overall damage output fine as it is and doesn't need to change, what made me so unfriendly to the thread is because of the desire to reduce healing power. Yes, killing average clerics aren't a big deal, and I can't help but reiterate that the skillful ones aren't impossible to kill, though are more challenging.

 

 

What you've just said there is a crazy statement and I can tell you don't play cleric

I've seen many times (ok against an average cleric) a team with none win. CD and AA,
It's all about working as a team and using strategy and playing well,

The simple fix for this would be to allow at least 1 cleric on each side to enable a game to start, yes I know there is a big deal about this but I think it would help with people complaining about this, OR an easy solution to put say a +30 buff station in spawn for both teams, that would make it fair, as I know and admit I've seen some teams just give up when they have no buffs and quit.

A simple buff station at each spawn would be a simple fix for what you said above

You have to think though , we are a 'support' class and that's our job to heal and help, we can't tank the whole team and we can't keep everyone alive constantly , so it's not a huge deal,

 

+1

 

[borgahutt]

@ahya I think we are on the same page - someone I totally agree with on here

[helloitsme]

Lol how about nerf the katars for a change.(it seems that his class always get a boost but not a nerf). lower their aspeed and crit and remove the other stealth.. and ill agree to nerfing of clerics and mages

[Feuer]

Ok so I was originally waiting for Phish to post his thread about the same topic, but since he's a day late I'll just post it here and copy to his if he gets to it.

 

For starters, every single class [with Exception to xBow Scouts and Artisans] were given more useful defensive talents in the latest skill patch.

 

Mages were given a more effective Mana Shield. As well as an increase to their MP recovery after casting it.

Clerics were given a proc to increase move speed after casting Mana Shield. 

Bourges were given an offensive proc to Critical Damage as well as a passive stacking proc for move speed.

Knights were given an update to their secondary defense passive, into damage reduction. Given HP recovery on Block stacks, as well as Damage reduction on Block.

Champions were given a 1,150/s HP recovery proc on killing blow. Spears specifically gained a more effective Dodge passive, in addition to 2 more Dodge stacking procs. Axes were given a 230hp/s proc on critical hit.

Hawkers gained their Dodge stat buff.

Semi recently Scouts had gained their Dodge & Move speed stacking procs from elemental arrow stacks.

 

So if anyone has the right to request help in surviving longer it'd be the xBow Scouts and Artisans.

xBow scouts have absolutely no stacking potential at all. This means if they don't end the conflict fast they'll quickly fall behind as their opponents statistics stack and over power them.

Artisans don't have ANY defensive talents at all. They have a survival, but the two are indeed different. Survival allows you to escape the conflict with your life, Defensive talents allow you to sustain yourself for a duration while remaining in combat. In addition, they also only get the first tree stacking potentials, however the Gun is strictly offense, and the Cannon is an in effective melee proc'd move speed with a low value and low duration making it neigh impossible to use accurately or rely on for any benefit. Specifically because if you're using a Cannon, you know that Melee attacking is your last priority, so trying to gain a 100-200m`speed stack for 5 seconds while you're stuck casting melee's [losing time to run and use the stack] is just pointless.

 

To further my point, I've found a way around every 'OP' class that is being nagged about, it just takes practice. The only one that is almost sheer luck is Raider with their new even higher Dodge and no Accuracy to compensate in defeating them. 

[Phish]

Too many threads going on.... Too many topics to talk about.... Too much imbalance...

[CharasX]

And not enough people interested in balancing things out. It feels like everyone s only aim is to make their very own class OP... or to keep them as OP as they currently are. On top of that, some of those people are class reps! what hope is there for class balancing on ROSE if the team listen to this kind of people!

 

That + the fact that people would like me to an essay to stat the obvious.... like... aoes deal too much damage... aoe classes in general are way too much favored be it for pvm or pvp... cleric support is way too game breaking.... damages are generally too high...unless you are a tank and can then tank solo 15 players EZ.

 

What other solutions is their than nerfing the overall damage, with a stress on AOEs... while nerfing cleric support abilities to make them less essential to the game? I mean... like... no need to be a fking rocket scientist to see that.

 

So far I tried to answered to a bunch of poeple thinking they know their thing, but who obviously has no idea about what balancing means... or no intention at all to go in this way. I was even told that those problems are inexistent! hahahaha this fool made my day... balancing ain't a problem in a mmo? right buddy. Most people would desagree completly with my suggestions, but without ever telling what would be their own suggestions to solve those problems. I feel like I m reading some kind of Hello Kitty forums where most active posters would be on average 12yo with no concrete visions on how a system works overall.

 

Ah well.... I do not know what to say... at least I tried, but it s very hard to try having a constructive talk with people acting and thinking like young teenager trolls.

 

PS : Feuer tried at least to bring some concrete ideas... unfortunatly completly out of topic... ah well.

 

 

[SpawN9999]

Agree on damage reduction stacks, needs a cut ; however

 

did you know its harder to tank 2 magic classes than  2 magic classes and everyone else hitting you? True factz

 

The thing ive noticed with knight tanking is physical classes love to meele hit you, specifically me, boosting my shiet to god levels at that point magic damage doesn't even matter

[Leeny]

Lol how about nerf the katars for a change.(it seems that his class always get a boost but not a nerf). lower their aspeed and crit and remove the other stealth.. and ill agree to nerfing of clerics and mages

 

Their attack speed was already nerfed. Crit increased because they made changes to Glorius. And as for 2 stealths, I sort of agree with you.

 

Also I promise you if/when they make changes to damage because they always do, you guys are going to whine and complain that they need to increase the damage. This happens every single time they listen and do something. It's you same people who want them to undo it repeating the same cycle.

Edited by Leeny, 23 May 2015 - 03:19 PM.

[LexLoyalty]

Its really the aoe demage that is crazy combined with lumi gear 

3 mages + a cleric can wipe 15 ppl (exaggerated) in mater of seconds lol

[Elton0001]

why will u nerf a skill? that's why it's called a SKILL to deal greater damage than normal damage.

those mages tho. i think the problem with mages is too much MP, where have u seen  a game where u have 30k mana lol.

Why not try nerfing mana buff and passive which will result in pp like mages and clerics hunger in mana because THEY use magic, not just spamming mp flames and fixing mana problems. with their mana hunger, clerics will result in investing skill points for mp passives.

ppl investing mp passives is rare now because it's practically USELESS.

and nerf the flames pls as a cleric

[CharasX]

Its really the aoe demage that is crazy combined with lumi gear 

3 mages + a cleric can wipe 15 ppl (exaggerated) in mater of seconds lol

 

It is absolutly not exagerated, 3 fire mages could come with their AOEs.... AOE stun lock everyone and wipe absolutly everyone within 3 seconds... In fact, theoritically, they could wipe an infinite number of players as long as they can fit in their aoe zone... 

 

In competitive mmos... AOE damage are either divided by the number of target it hits... or limited to a maximum of 5 targets (randomly choosen within the target in range). The main problem ROSE has is that the people who think and act like if they had an idea on how things should work have absolutly 0 clue about how things work on other games... They have 0 experience be it for PvP or PvM... apart from the one they have from ROSE... and oh god... they believe they are so pro at it.

[3372130514100939050]

This is by far the most stupidest thing i ever read on a forum, You obviously get super raped in pvp and want to -_- up the game as vengence ?

Seriously remove this thread and think before u type.

Dafuq 33% dmg nerf on single
66% dmg nerf on aoe

Those number where chossen by extreme thinkering -.-
Hell just come take my dam keyboard and be done with it

[CharasX]

 

This is by far the most stupidest thing i ever read on a forum, You obviously get super raped in pvp and want to up the game as vengence ?

Seriously remove this thread and think before u type.

Dafuq 33% dmg nerf on single
66% dmg nerf on aoe

Those number where chossen by extreme thinkering -.-
Hell just come take my dam keyboard and be done with it

 

If it s the most stupidest then.... I guess there s no hope left! god help us all!