24 replies to this topic

[Joatmon]

Hey! When maintenance comes back online today I'll be doing the Sorc Job Change and praying for the best.
Most of the time, I have a plan for my character's build before third. An extensive plan. Very extensive plans that include gears, stats, and skills, down to the finest of details.

I have no fuggin clue what I'm doing when it comes to mages x.x

I always go for hybrid-like builds. If I want to do something with my character, I just wanna have to change my gears and have the correct stats and skills to almost become a complete other build. This also means I end up being a Jack Of All Trades, and a Master Of None. (J.O.A.T.M.O.N. xD) It allows me to go anywhere, do just about anything, and still be able to succeed even if I am not to the potential of other pure builds. (Make you wonder why I'm not playing a SC? Well to have you know I'm still leveling it)

Yet again... idk mages and would like some help putting together a build that'll let me do just about anything.  I'm not interested in Hindsight or Spell Fist (like at all) so no need to worry about that. I am really interested in the spirits and insignia... is it okay to get all of them or?...

I have a +9 iFAW and a +7 CoD.

I plan on getting 120 Int and 120 Dex unless someone tells me otherwise. (I'll be using Temp Dex Boots soon for an RK so... unless I shouldn't do that?)

Some help is greatly needed to figure out what I want, man. 

So as a summary:
-I wanna do everything (Instances, MvP, PvP, WoE maybe)
-I wanna be able to simply change gears and have a different build... if that's even a thing for mages (Just so nobody can be all "Look at what I can do that you can't!"... unless you're hindsight, I don't care about you right now.)
-I don't care if I'm not exceptional in one thing if I can be at least effective in most of everything. 

I mean you're talking to someone who does hybrid everything. Hybrid GX, Hybrid Performers, Hybrid Priests, Hybrid Rangers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lapphy]

Basically sounds like a caster/support

 

120int/120dex/ rest vit. 

 

The only skill build i see possible for all of the things you want would be

 

http://irowiki.org/~...FhSaPaAdnan1In1

 

Let me dissect this first

 

Aside from being able to do all you want up there, 

 

The Pros:

Woe capable as a support/dps with the right gears, High/max damage against monsters with wind weakness ( with the right gears) Able to swap between instant cast from stats/gear making woe/pvm an easy transition. MVPing possible with water insignia + wind elemental usage

 

the CONS of this skill build is

 

Woe possible, but 1/2 pvm not possible. You're losing 2 elements to change your PW into, which is a little bit detrimental to your pvm aspect. You're missing agni, and tera, so you would not do maximum damage to any enemies with fire and earth weaknesses. You're missing spirit cure/sympathy so heavy usage on elemental stones. 

 

 

 

 

 

i can give you 4 builds that should cover all bases given Ideal gear.

 

PVM/MVP Damage:

 

Upper: +9/+12 Skull cap. +9 skull caps with elemental enhanced cards (lichtern, tikabalang etc) +10-12 KK Skull cap if you need the cast reduction [Fenrir ideally, but it hasn't dropped yet]
mid: bfg [missy, ESL] Missy for no gem cost, ESL for the int and the status immunity

Lower: 99 balloons for the stats
Armor: +9 geffen magic robe: best phen effect gear, 1/2 of a pharoah effect, slotted. Amdairais is best in slot for damage, realized then the weakend version (don't think the "realized" is implimented yet though) Then it would be Entwein. But i'd make an unfrozen if you need unfrozen status (mid TI with the ice titans would be a good example)

Weapon: +10 or higher TSOD. Can spell enchant them if you need cast reduction, can INT inchant them if you dont.

Shield: whatever shield is needed for the area you are hunting. I usually run valk shields

Garment: Spell FAW if you need the cast, GFSS int enchant if you dont. Raydric if you need the reduction, Antique book if you dont. 

Shoes: Damage: +12 Temporal Int shoes Spell5/Runaway magic. When the RM procs, You 2.25X your damage (assuming you get around 180~ int)

Accessories: 2x RWC Spell 3/3 Int 3 [1] Elvira cards for stacking Wind damage, Scaraba card for general damage, Belzebub if you need cast time to play with GFSS

 

This is a damage build centered around wind summon for MVPing. Tank the mvp on a water insignia, summon ventus, blow mvps up. 

 

 

 

 

 

Support PVM:

Upper: +12 Skull cap [kk] if you need the cast reduction [Fenrir ideally, but it hasn't dropped yet]
mid: bfg [missy, ESL] Missy for no gem cost, ESL for the int and the status immunity

Lower: 99 balloons for the stats
Armor: +9 geffen magic robe i'd make an unfrozen if you need unfrozen status. The correct Elemental for the location

Weapon: +10 or higher TSOD. Can spell enchant them if you need cast reduction, 

Shield: whatever shield is needed for the area you are hunting. I usually run valk shields

Garment: Spell FAW if you need the cast Raydric 

Shoes: Damage: +9 Temporal Dex Shoes [Firelock Soldier card]

Accessories: 2x RWC Spell 3/3 Int 3 [1] Belzebub if you need cast time reduction, KBC if you need elemental reduction.

 

Mainly using Striking to support the physical damage players, ME to ward off AOE spells. Usually used heavily in BIO4. SP the people needed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WOE/PVP (support)

 

Upper: +12 Red Pom Band [Fenrir ideally, but it hasn't dropped yet] Maya Purple/ESL

Mid: BFG [1] mistress card for no gem cost

Lower: Hankerchief in mouth

Armor: +9 woe robe: GR/Holy/tao

Weapon: Mdef4/4 Combat Knife

Shield: Valk Shield [gtb/thara]

Garment: Woe muffler [noxious/raydric]

Shoes: Woe Shoes [green ferus]

Accessoriy: Hiding Black Rosary {smokie]
Accessory: Carefree Black rosary [Kafra blossom card]

 

This is the support sorcerer. Tao and gtb being best in slot. This runs 100 mdef so you have freeze immunity and with energy coat, you should have the most reduction in the game against demi human, provided you swap gear accordingly. GTB so you don't get effected by magic, GR to fight against suras. Dispell stasised allies. etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WOE DPS

 

Upper: +12 Red Pom Band [Fenrir ideally, or HWIZ mvp, but both haven't dropped yet] Elemental damage+ like tikabalang for wind, ESL for int+

Mid: Mistress BFG

Lower: 99 Balloons

Armor: Pure damage: Amdarais Valk +3 int, +3 int Diabolus robe. You're going to need an unfrozen though to swap to as well.

Weapon: +12-14 KVM Staff , +12-14 Bellum Staff if you need the cast reduction (you shouldn't because you're aiming for stats instant cast)

Shield: Valk shield: GTB/Thara

Garment: +8 or higher GFSS +12 int or higher [1] Antique book (purely for the damages)

Shoes: +12 temporal int shoes [Fallen Bishop Hibrams] for the damages. Dex for the casting time. 

Accessory: RWC spell3/3 int+3 Elvira cards for more magic damage/ Brisingamen

Accessory: RWC spell3/3 INt 3 Smokie for survivability/ Brisingamen

 

Cast magic. I hope you have a dedicated Sacrifice RG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you need a skill analysis... lmk

Edited by Lapphy, 08 July 2015 - 04:48 PM.

[Sewasan]

i think that on that build you could drop ME to 3 because 5 is so annoying in so many aspects D: i hate ME at 5, at least on woe is just annoying, and sometimes in PVM also, i just stick to 3 IMO.

[Joatmon]

I may know little about mages but that build isn't exactly what I'm looking for. It actually seems pretty constrictive.

Edit: Not to mention expensive af ._.

Edited by Joatmon, 08 July 2015 - 08:37 PM.

[Lapphy]

ME 5 is for bio4 full parties.

Also yeah its pretty expensive. But im giving you best in slot.

[Lapphy]

Its hard to make a woe and pvm build. Its really one or the other to be honest. And trust me, from my 8 sorcs, its not restrictive all.

Before you ask why i have 8,

3 accounts, 2 stat based woe sorcs on 2 accounts, one on main acc to test dex shoes, one on main acc to test int shoes, 3 sorcs (one for each TI) one baby.


Im noy quite sure what other skills you want (besides call agni/tera

Edited by Lapphy, 09 July 2015 - 02:13 AM.

[YangeWenli]

Does gioia MVP card not drop? I see you mention wind element psychic wave and have Elvira and tikbalang card listed but not gioia which adds 100% wind element DMG.

[Lapphy]

i haven't seen one yet.

[Joatmon]

AH sorry I meant to get to this. I was kinda worried about the fact I'm limited to a wind summon and it seems I'm more focused on supporting with that build than not. It's okay for the moment though. I've come into some stuff and I'm going back to leveling my GX and getting him some equips so the sorc is on the backburner... especially now than I'm selling the +9 CoD xD I won't have enough money for a KK in the near future so what the hell~

But yeah. Is there a way I could use more if not all of the summons so I could be more versatile in that manner?

[Kadelia]

That elvira card is some kind of interesting. Cant always use wind, though. Temporal dex boots (if base 120 dex) at least soften the need for a wind summon for good cast times, if you're using the other summons.

[Joatmon]

That elvira card is some kind of interesting. Cant always use wind, though. Temporal dex boots (if base 120 dex) at least soften the need for a wind summon for good cast times, if you're using the other summons.

Yeah Laphy's build allows me nothing much but the wind summon... I kinda want all of em XD

[Lapphy]

^ wind and water. from experience, a leveling build and a final build is different. Hard to incorporate woe skills with pvm as well, cause pvm wouldn't need arullo and other skills. You can skimp out on certain skills if you want to find 5 points in there to put for summon lvl 2s. if you want insignias, then i wouldn't woe on it. 

[Joatmon]

Why not?...

[Lapphy]

Uhh because PVM skills don't translate well to WoE.

 

Insignias don't work well in woe 1 minute duration. One minute cooldown. Only able to effectively place it during defensive scenarios. Broken up by preexisting ground spells. Easy to get rid of and will waste your time. You're also not summoning anything besides wind and water in woe. (wind is the only sorc element not reduced by valk shield) Water level 1 is a sacrifice effect. Water level 2 increases crystalization, water level 3 increases Matk by 100ish?

 

Getting insignias will force you to get lvl 3 of each element, Thats a waste of 7 skill points, Plus the 3 you don't use at all. (fire, earth, wind) thats 10 points. 

 

Skill sets for WoE you don't normally get during PVM. To support in woe, its good to have max striking. If you want your element attacks to do max damage, you're going to need to max your endows (also helps striking buff). Then you'll need ME to clear ground target spells like lust. You'll need max vacuum, Max arrullo. Fiber/blinding mist for pvp. That means you'll need about 8 or so points from 3rd job back into 2nd job.

 

 

 

there are several reasons. these few are the ones that come up into my head without having much thought and breaking down all skills.

 

 

 

 

 

I mean... feel free to make your own build if you're not happy with what i suggest. I mean, what do i know. I only made 9 sorcs for the theorycrafting.

 

 

 

Edited by Lapphy, 15 July 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[DeadIntern]

Yeah Laphy's build allows me nothing much but the wind summon... I kinda want all of em XD

 

Actually, I don't see the point why you would want to get all the summons.

 

From what I understand, and from Lapphy's explanation, any insignia will be able to force change the element of the enemy right?

 

So getting just one insignia (water) that will complement one of your elemental attacks (PW + Ventus lv 2 in this case) would be the most economical choice. Plus, elvira gives 20% boost to wind attacks, so... there's that.

[Joatmon]

 

I mean... feel free to make your own build if you're not happy with what i suggest. I mean, what do i know. I only made 9 sorcs for the theorycrafting.

Did... did you just get salty on me? xD

Man I'm just ignorant, I want max effectiveness sure but I still wanna feel like I can do anything man. Just because you build feels a little restrictive to me doesn't mean that there probably isn't a way to tweak it just a bit right? I mean if I said I wanted to be able to WoE and PvM but said that I wanted to lean toward PvM more would that change anything? Or if I said I wanted to lean a little more toward WoE?

But yeah... it's not just about how effective I am mechanically, but I wanna FEEL like I can do just about anything... right? If you don't feel great playing it then what's the point?

I mean how much wiggle room do we have here?

I'm more used to thieves and performers than I am to mages and the like, so I honestly have no clue what makes certain skills necessary and what makes them unnecessary. I can understand the thing about only needing 1-2 summons now that it's explained, but I'm also looking at the other skills and wondering "why do I need that and why do they not like the idea of this? That skill looks cool"

I mean I don't need an in-depth skill explanation, but I feel like I'd enjoy a Sorc more if I knew why this build or one like it could get me anywhere and why deviating doesn't. Regardless I doubt I'll follow it to the letter but I'm just not internalizing anything.

Sorry for being dumb <.>

Also... VS has an ATK portion? Should that matter? is there a way you build around that or something? I was thinkin about that the other day...

[Lapphy]

WEll its hard to know what skills you think are cool when you only refer to them. then i could tell you why its not viable. I basically gave you want you wanted and you're not happy about it lol. If you want to dedicate yourself to pvm, then you can get all the summons and whatnot.

 

But if you actually want to do something in woe (magic damage sucks unless you're stacked and have FBH) then you're going to need to support and do secondary precasting roles. If you skimp on the support skills, then you're pretty much useless. The support skills have prerequisites. The prereqs are expensive. No point in supporting half assed. just going to get half assed results. 

 

 

At 175/60, i have a similar build on my stats based instantcast woe sorcerer. I don't have killing cloud. but i am literally able to go anywhere And do decent damage without having the two summons. I mvp on the woe sorc (fenrir, bakonawa, ET [up to valk]) solo. If that can't get you everywhere you want to go. i don't know what else you want.

 

 

leveling i get all 4 summons, but i use the free resets.

 

 

and no, not salty. i was trying to be sarcastic.

Edited by Lapphy, 16 July 2015 - 03:12 AM.

[Lapphy]

Actually, I don't see the point why you would want to get all the summons.

 

From what I understand, and from Lapphy's explanation, any insignia will be able to force change the element of the enemy right?

 

So getting just one insignia (water) that will complement one of your elemental attacks (PW + Ventus lv 2 in this case) would be the most economical choice. Plus, elvira gives 20% boost to wind attacks, so... there's that.

 

 

Actually statted and reset one of my sorcs to test insignias the other day, just cause, (only able to get lvl 1 of each)

 

and it doesn't actually change the target monster element. It'll make it so (opposite) element just does more damage on that monster. Doesn't work if the monster has 100% immunity to the element though. 

[Sewasan]

Actually statted and reset one of my sorcs to test insignias the other day, just cause, (only able to get lvl 1 of each)

 

and it doesn't actually change the target monster element. It'll make it so (opposite) element just does more damage on that monster. Doesn't work if the monster has 100% immunity to the element though. 

 

Developing a little further that explanation, i have insignias on my pvm sorc (lvl 2) and on my woe sorc (some lvl 2) and at lvl 1 they only amplify the dmg of the oppossite element, so for instance you put a water insignia on top of any monster, it will receive 50% more dmg on that monster. On the other hand, lvl 2 insignias do change the element of enemies BUT the attack element of the enemy. so if you for instance are tanking an mvp and you put a water insignia on top of him and you switch to aqua armor or put lvl 2 defensive aqua, you will receive non to super low damage from regular hits because will be water elemental as well, also the monsters inside the insignia will receive the added 50% bonus damage

[Joatmon]

Alright so:
Summons and Insignias are strictly MvP oriented and getting too many gimps the skill points needed for WoE skills
and
Without some expensive af gear a WoE Sorc is reduced to somewhere between support skills and helping in the precast


So my new question:
If I'm looking to fulfill a desire to be an elemental master should I forsake Spirits and Insignias except for Water Insig and lv 2 Ventus and instead go for maxing the effectiveness of as many AoE skills I can while leaving room for support skills? (Which by the way, are what exactly? and are there any that aren't really needed and just handy every now and then?)

[Lapphy]

yes. thats correct in thinking so. 

 

Support skills in woe:

Striking 5: to melee charas (at max i believe its +175 atk. that requires maxed endows [which you need anyway cause its calced in the {respective} element's damage formula]
Dispell 5: (to enemies and to clear stasis from allies [does not work if you are stasised yourself])

Arullo 5: (only thing you can do to gtb users)

Extreme Vacuum 5: (5x5 snare)

Fiber lock: (single target snare) most people are like... but you have vacuum, and my defense is, you can only put two down, and it can be Crazy Vined, or earth drive'd [effect still remains for the snared people until out of SP or duration ends]

ME (3+): depends on how big your guild/opponent guild is tbh. I need 5. Depending on who you fight in woe, (say the opponent is magic damage heavy) then ME would come in handy. However, if the opponent is ranged damage damage heavy. then the tactics would be pneuma and ME wouldn't be utilized. ME can also be used offensively, to get rid of their ground spells.

Warmer 1-3: Mainly use lvl 1 because the cooldown is shorter than the duration, allowing you to keep a consistent warmer down. 1-3 is only effected by agni level....2? (can't remember off the top of my head) for greater HP regen. 

Saftey wall 10: This is self explainable i hope... Saftey wall emps players when about to get gfisted... etc

Blinding mist:. there's a chance that targeted spells at people in the mist will miss. you included. 

Whirlwind: (i have 5) This amplifies wind damage. and when you have ventus and the wind+ damage gear, its hits decently hard. Same goes for

Volcano: (this is for the RKs) deluge is disabled in woe? because of the waterball and kettle hat thing

Spell Breaker : To uh... spell break. lol (this is the spell i skimped out on to get some more things, like dragonology 5 [+3 int at lvl 5, 10% more matk])

Stone Curse 7-10: 7 for frost diver 2, 10 for no.

Increase SP recovery 6+: helps with sp regen. not THAT important, but it'd be more efficient to use pots and stuff. 

Frost diver: most people in woe use unfrozens i'd say. its good for pvp but meh

 

for spirit support. Going to need

Spirit control 1 and 2. For an in depth look at spirit effects just read the wiki. 

 

 

 

Offensive, 

Diamond dust 5 for crystalization. its crusher against players if it procs. you can basically beat up on them and they can't pot. so you better pray you kill them.

Psychic wave, Varytr spear, and Earth grave. Spam VS every other cast due to its cooldown and its a constant stream of damage. 

 

If they have holy.. they'll just laugh at you 

 

Edited by Lapphy, 17 July 2015 - 06:12 PM.

[Sewasan]

yes. thats correct in thinking so. 

 

Support skills in woe:

Striking 5: to melee charas (at max i believe its +175 atk. that requires maxed endows [which you need anyway cause its calced in the {respective} element's damage formula]
Dispell 5: (to enemies and to clear stasis from allies [does not work if you are stasised yourself])

Arullo 5: (only thing you can do to gtb users)

Extreme Vacuum 5: (5x5 snare)

Fiber lock: (single target snare) most people are like... but you have vacuum, and my defense is, you can only put two down, and it can be Crazy Vined, or earth drive'd [effect still remains for the snared people until out of SP or duration ends]

ME (3+): depends on how big your guild/opponent guild is tbh. I need 5. Depending on who you fight in woe, (say the opponent is magic damage heavy) then ME would come in handy. However, if the opponent is ranged damage damage heavy. then the tactics would be pneuma and ME wouldn't be utilized. ME can also be used offensively, to get rid of their ground spells.

Warmer 1-3: Mainly use lvl 1 because the cooldown is shorter than the duration, allowing you to keep a consistent warmer down. 1-3 is only effected by agni level....2? (can't remember off the top of my head) for greater HP regen. 

Saftey wall 10: This is self explainable i hope... Saftey wall emps players when about to get gfisted... etc

Blinding mist:. there's a chance that targeted spells at people in the mist will miss. you included. 

Whirlwind: (i have 5) This amplifies wind damage. and when you have ventus and the wind+ damage gear, its hits decently hard. Same goes for

Volcano: (this is for the RKs) deluge is disabled in woe? because of the waterball and kettle hat thing

Spell Breaker : To uh... spell break. lol (this is the spell i skimped out on to get some more things, like dragonology 5 [+3 int at lvl 5, 10% more matk])

Stone Curse 7-10: 7 for frost diver 2, 10 for no.

Increase SP recovery 6+: helps with sp regen. not THAT important, but it'd be more efficient to use pots and stuff. 

Frost diver: most people in woe use unfrozens i'd say. its good for pvp but meh

 

for spirit support. Going to need

Spirit control 1 and 2. For an in depth look at spirit effects just read the wiki. 

 

 

 

Offensive, 

Diamond dust 5 for crystalization. its crusher against players if it procs. you can basically beat up on them and they can't pot. so you better pray you kill them.

Psychic wave, Varytr spear, and Earth grave. Spam VS every other cast due to its cooldown and its a constant stream of damage. 

 

If they have holy.. they'll just laugh at you 

 

This...i have some skills different anyway, stone curse 10 and Frost Driver 8 (pretty much same proc chance) i found frost driver super cool to froze RGs (most of them always froze because of shield spell bug) inmortal chasers and RKs...even if some of them can unfroze themselves (RK pretty much) you buy time to vaccum them or fiberlock'em

 

ISR i have it at 1 because...you are a sorc and WOE supplies will heal you for % or fixed ammount anyway.

 

Spell Breaker i have it at 3 because wont do anything good aside from spell break things (works trough GTB too) and is a useful tool to face stasis warlocks (spam on them)
 

On the other skills is pretty much what Lapphy told you, even then i have somethings different because of the guilds you face, actually it depend a lot on the guilds, for example, if you face Origins, you are going to face mostly physical dmg, so keep ME super high wont do that much, but keeping your ground control skills will be super important, i dont know if there is any guild who is heavy dps magic user to be honest, i know there are several warlocks who can actually do DMG with magic and some other sorcs that can do DMG aswell, but not too many and for sure not on the same guild, so heavy magic DPS or burst are very rare to be honest (maybe because is super expensive anyway)

 

I play mostly support on WOE to setup enemies so my guildies can kill them, and DD is an amazing debuff aswell as Arrullo, i spam it a lot

[Joatmon]

Alrighty then.

And I should  suppose most MvPs aren't too hard with Water Insignia since there's an overwhelming amount of water resistance in this game.

[Sewasan]

yeah but keep in mind that, turn off the melee hits not the skills, so if they do thunderstorm or LOV they still wreck you...and look out for mvps that do ME or Ganbatein (just a few but is important because removes insignias aswell)

[Joatmon]

Thank you ^^