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Restore bio3 monster density


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#1 squirreI

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 09:02 PM

First of all, I think this should be a poll but I couldn't figure out how to do that. Let me know if you know how. For now, opinions can be shared.

 

I've asked a few times for the bio3 monster density to be restored to normal on Classic Patch Notes threads but have pretty much been ignored each time. When I tell any of my friends that it was reduced, they all respond with something similar to, "that's stupid", or "are you serious?". I didn't look too far into it, but I only remember a few players asking for it to be reduced, and they were listened to. I think a majority would appreciate it being returned to its classic state.

 

Now I'll try to list some of my reasonings

-In general, changes like this should require a very large majority requesting it. Nobody I know from pre-renewal likes this change.

-Bio3 in my opinion, is the most difficult place in the game to even stay alive. That was something unique about it, I liked it, and it was taken away. It's too easy to move across the map now.

-Increasing the density increases the potential for exp if you can handle it. Players should learn to handle it instead of requesting for the density to be decreased. It was supposed to be hard.

-Bio3's natural mob control was monsters moving into the limbs of the map. If a player or party wants more of a challenge, they could move into any of these limbs.

 

I can definitely add onto this. If I need to I will.


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#2 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 09:08 PM

Only people with elevated privs can make polls. God knows why.

 

+1 btw. Nvm what you want isn't vanilla. I just want them to be zoned and back to their old spawn density before the custom changes.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 10 July 2015 - 05:59 AM.

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#3 Themes

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 09:17 PM

If anyone's curious why it got "reduced" it was initially one of those places that got HEAVILY modified when it was introduced. Stair Wizards got removed and to compensate there were a *lot* of added instant spawn monsters not tied to any particular area. So instead of restoring the proper Bio3 spawns when people complained about the spawns they just reduced them without much consideration into how that changed the dungeon. The great thing about having area spawns was you could drag/snatch them knowing with certainty that those monsters were gone until they got killed, people could pick and choose what to kill. 

 

Here's what it's supposed to look like: http://db.irowiki.or...info/lhz_dun03/

Here's what we've got: http://db.irowiki.or...info/lhz_dun03/

 

Cant find any good visual versions of what we had previously, but I can probably dig it up if anyone's really curious.

 

I'm behind the return to proper Bio3 density, you may have to tweak GSB drop rates if you return area spawns, but they should be present IMO.


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#4 Misos

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 09:22 PM

I support this and I suggested this multiple times on other threads. Gms plz.
 

 

Here's what it's supposed to look like: http://db.irowiki.or...info/lhz_dun03/

 


Edited by Misos, 10 July 2015 - 06:01 AM.

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#5 Alaska

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 10:31 PM

i wonder if this would make it more fun on renewal too haha


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#6 Rate

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 11:36 PM

its fine how it is


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#7 Xellie

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:40 AM

First of all, I think this should be a poll but I couldn't figure out how to do that. Let me know if you know how. For now, opinions can be shared.

 

I've asked a few times for the bio3 monster density to be restored to normal on Classic Patch Notes threads but have pretty much been ignored each time. When I tell any of my friends that it was reduced, they all respond with something similar to, "that's stupid", or "are you serious?". I didn't look too far into it, but I only remember a few players asking for it to be reduced, and they were listened to. I think a majority would appreciate it being returned to its classic state.

 

Now I'll try to list some of my reasonings

-In general, changes like this should require a very large majority requesting it. Nobody I know from pre-renewal likes this change.

-Bio3 in my opinion, is the most difficult place in the game to even stay alive. That was something unique about it, I liked it, and it was taken away. It's too easy to move across the map now.

-Increasing the density increases the potential for exp if you can handle it. Players should learn to handle it instead of requesting for the density to be decreased. It was supposed to be hard.

-Bio3's natural mob control was monsters moving into the limbs of the map. If a player or party wants more of a challenge, they could move into any of these limbs.

 

I can definitely add onto this. If I need to I will.

 

Coming from the guy that mobs the entire map into one cell so they can farm cecils.

 

The problem with the not increased density, but it was increased and then triple spawn on top due to spotlight, was that it became impossible to level there if a second party entered. The regular increased density was fine, but the increase + spotlight was not. They left the spotlighted spawns in for a while (which is what people asked to be dealt with).

 

They changed it where they edited the non spotlight spawns then removed those.

 

They should just give us vanilla bio3. No bull-_-.

 

There's no point to increased density anyway, if they don't zone the spawns. They need to zone the spawns so that the map can be used by multiple parties. The whole map wide random crap is not good.

 

Is this what you're asking to be restored? The whole map was like this from top to bottom.

 

9Nzh7KJ.png

 

edit: I really don't appreciate your veiled insult about "learn to handle it" when you of all people should know what was going on. Bio3 has never been vanilla on this server and all of us request it. The stupid density issue is completely unrelated and I find the implications of your post pretty insulting =/

 

 

edit 2 : http://imgur.com/a/X96oA/all Vanilla bio from old chaos ;)


Edited by Xellie, 10 July 2015 - 06:24 AM.

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#8 squirreI

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 02:02 AM

Guess I shouldn't have been the person to ask then!

 

-mvp is too easy

-map not hard enough. The hardest map in the game is gone.

-obviously I wasn't referring to the spotlight version, but that would be cool to have for a week or so lol.

-I don't take anything back. Now I am referring to the spotlight version. Players should learn to handle it. They would become strong players. Get them out of the low intensity leveling areas.


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#9 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 02:17 AM

Guess I shouldn't have been the person to ask then!

 

-mvp is too easy

-map not hard enough. The hardest map in the game is gone.

-obviously I wasn't referring to the spotlight version, but that would be cool to have for a week or so lol.

-I don't take anything back. Now I am referring to the spotlight version. Players should learn to handle it. They would become strong players. Get them out of the low intensity leveling areas.

 

So just for clarification, you don't want Pre-Renewal Bio3, but custom Classic Bio3 with spotlight spawns?


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#10 Xellie

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 03:53 AM

Guess I shouldn't have been the person to ask then!

 

-mvp is too easy

-map not hard enough. The hardest map in the game is gone.

-obviously I wasn't referring to the spotlight version, but that would be cool to have for a week or so lol.

-I don't take anything back. Now I am referring to the spotlight version. Players should learn to handle it. They would become strong players. Get them out of the low intensity leveling areas.

 

So ask for icewall to be disabled ;)


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#11 squirreI

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 08:58 AM

Only people with elevated privs can make polls. God knows why.

 

+1 btw. Nvm what you want isn't vanilla. I just want them to be zoned and back to their old spawn density before the custom changes.

 

 

Guess I shouldn't have been the person to ask then!

 

-mvp is too easy

-map not hard enough. The hardest map in the game is gone.

-obviously I wasn't referring to the spotlight version, but that would be cool to have for a week or so lol.

-I don't take anything back. Now I am referring to the spotlight version. Players should learn to handle it. They would become strong players. Get them out of the low intensity leveling areas.

 

 

So just for clarification, you don't want Pre-Renewal Bio3, but custom Classic Bio3 with spotlight spawns?

 

This thread is for pre-renewal mob restoration, or at least what we had before, not spotlight. On the side, I just think it would be fun to have spotlight back. I am well aware that it is too much though.

 

Although it is true, I do not know very well what bio3 was like in the past with these zone spawns you guys are speaking of. I was strictly speaking in terms of numbers of mobs. It seems I didn't do enough bio3 leveling in the past to know what the difference between pre-renewal bio3 and classic bio3 were.

 

Also, get spawned on. It'll help everyone's reaction times.

 

 

edit: While I'm having fun with my veiled insults, throw out your +1s for pre-renewal bio3.


Edited by squirreI, 11 July 2015 - 09:43 AM.

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#12 KamiKali

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 01:19 PM

+1 for old bio3 spawns and "thinly veiled insults" lulz, I'll pm you how the old zone spawn was if you're interested. I do think people should lrn2play tho lol.
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#13 Themes

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 07:13 PM

Ok lets see how well I can display the old spawns if you're curious.

 

zvmRjWY.png
 

This is taken from an old spreadsheet I requested from Oda around two years ago when I was first looking at getting the iwiki DB updated, not sure if it has been posted publicly anywhere but if anyone really really wants it I can provide it (omg gm bias guys ahhh). The numbers above each monster name are the respawn time in minutes.

 

Currently we have 154 monsters, proper spawns are twice that at 304 and the old spawns were 306. However proper spawns are almost entirely controlled by area spawns keeping things very well balanced throughout the map with anything killed returning to its proper place. Initially we had no area spawns at all, we've since had some very loose changes giving the instant spawn monsters much larger spawn boxes. I'm not sure if any of the timed spawns are also area spawn or if they're all random.

 

The main problem with how spawns used to be was their unpredictability making it impossible to actually use the map for much of anything because working your way around would lead to there being rooms with 50-60 things in it. What most people I know liked about Bio3 was being able to set up in an area (clear it, then train/snatch unwanted things out) and stay there, obviously there's going to be new things wandering around, but you were generally able to choose what to fight and how many. With the previous spawns this was not possible. With the current spawns it's possible to a small degree, but with the changes to the size of the spawn boxes and the lower density it's not worth the effort when you can go to DG or Thors instead.

 

Bio3 always felt like a place where people who were a bit more skilled/organised could benefit from that instead of going to Thors. The experience was high enough to be split amongst a group and you almost always would benefit from bringing an extra player, which is not something you can say about anywhere else really. I can sort of understand the GMs stance on removing area spawns to prevent griefing and more work for them. But it ruins the whole map and honestly the people who were causing grief with instant spawns earlier in the server or the people who I'd generally view as the type to cause problems with existing area spawns are all gone.

 

With all the crazy modifiers these days it's not about the amount of experience gained, it's about giving people the Classic experience they want/expect. Bio3 is the pinnacle for most people when you think about end game Pre-Renewal RO and we dont have it.


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