Gunslingers - Classic Foundry - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

Gunslingers


28 replies to this topic

#1 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9271 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:19 PM

So as you know renewal is getting a gunslinger update with the rebellion class. To pair with that I want to do something for classic gunslingers.

 

Currently it is my understanding that there are only two semi viable builds for gunslingers,

 

Desperado and Crit Rifle.

 

Goal viability for Shotguns and Chainguns,

 

Random thoughts are

 

Shotguns - Increase Damage Slightly, MAYBE add random AOE to all attacks?

 

Chainguns - Increase attack speed drastically slight decrease in damage.

 

 

The goal is to put gunslingers somewhere between Trans and normal second classes.


  • 0

#2 Myzery

Myzery

    They pay me to post.

  • Banned
  • 6670 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:29 PM

Gunslingers are actually decent in the Classic setting.

I think what you proposed would be good for non conventional builds.

The AoE to shotguns would makes sense also as well as the attack speed on chain guns.

Maybe give them the effect of the alicel doll or w/e like Scuba had mentioned before.
 


  • 0

#3 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:54 PM

:p_swt:

 

Can we get rebellion sprite?


Edited by Xellie, 17 September 2015 - 02:55 PM.

  • 1

#4 Xeio

Xeio

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 82 posts

Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:59 PM

Gatling guns and buffs can easily put you at 190 aspd with minimal agi. Issue with gatling is there is zero offensive spells for it(just an auto attack bot like crit sin)

 

Shotguns could use some aspd love. Nothing too crazy but at least 5 aspd increase. Full blast does good damage don't need to do anything with that. Spread shot could use some damage love.

 

Any aoe will never come close to the dps desperado can generate(possibly). I'd like to see some grenade launcher love but not about to vip my accounts to make a GS. 

 


  • 0

#5 needmorezleep

needmorezleep

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1013 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 17 September 2015 - 03:02 PM

:p_swt:

 

Can we get rebellion sprite?

it has the same amount of frames iirc as gs permission 2 mod plz?


  • 0

#6 AlmrOfAtlas

AlmrOfAtlas

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 6533 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 17 September 2015 - 04:54 PM

Crit Rifle isn't just "semi-viable", it's very good with all the silly crit modifiers we have in-game atm from Renewal gear and the stuff that was already in from Pre-Re. Not as OP as Crit SinX since they can't use LFH to its full potential (can't shoot with sharp arrows!), but a good GS with highly refined gear and crit bonuses out the proverbial ass can still pop squishies from a mile away. For general Rifle builds, Tracking doesn't benefit from Snake Eyes like it should, which severely limits its use.

 

Desperado's strong but unreliable, and since the GS has to position themselves in the middle of a group of enemies at point blank for it to be most effective, they won't live long! The rest of the Pistol skills are quite nice and have good damage and kiting potential.

 

Shotgun is okay. The ASPD nerf hurts its viability quite a lot. Spread Shot's damage at max level needs to scale up to 350% (akin to FAS) instead of capping out at 280%. Full Blast has very nice damage but uses a heck of a lot of SP for the GS' low SP pool, so you might want to have a look at that. The GS' best kiting skills can't be used with Shotguns.

 

The problem with Gatling is that all the applicable weapons have extremely low base Atk so even if you're attacking someone at max ASPD, it'll only tickle. All of the self-buffs related to Gatling also have quite significant nerfs to FLEE and Movement speed, in one case just rooting you to the spot in exchange for higher damage. Since Ranged classes absolutely need to kite to be effective in RO, these skills end up being practically ineffective unless sniping from a ledge or from behind a tank.

 

There are also a lot of general problems with GS:

  • No reliable way to generate coins, which are used for all GS skills. Totally based on RNG which is frustrating and anti-fun game design. No GS wants to stop fighting and run away to regenerate coins for what could be 30 seconds of Flip Coin spam before they get max stacks, or stop mid-fight and Flip Coin to get one more stack for a clutch skill and find that it actually took a stack away from them. As with Rebellion there needs to be a way to generate a full stack of coins at once - same as Zen on Champs.
  • Not even a single GS weapon has 4 slots. On Classic, slots are extremely important. Only one weapon has 3 slots - the Branch Rifle (limiting damage customisability to Rifle build), and it has atrociously low base Atk to "compensate". Most GS weapons have either 1 slot or no slots at all, and the unslotted weapons have very little going for them in terms of bonus effects to make them desirable. Overall, GS has the worst selection of weapons in the game next to SN.
  • Very high SP drain on most skills coupled with an extremely low SP pool at 99 unless investing in INT (which no skills scale off) means that in order to keep up in the damage race with other classes, a GS needs to drink Blues like water.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 17 September 2015 - 05:01 PM.

  • 1

#7 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9271 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 17 September 2015 - 04:59 PM

What if guns gained the ability to auto coinflip by chance?


  • 0

#8 AlmrOfAtlas

AlmrOfAtlas

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 6533 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:02 PM

What if guns gained the ability to auto coinflip by chance?

 

There's a card for that (Greatest General), and Gold Lux has the same type of effect. It procs at an extremely low rate and is just as unreliable as manually using Flip Coin.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 17 September 2015 - 05:03 PM.

  • 0

#9 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9271 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:03 PM

There's a card for that (Greatest General), and Gold Lux has the same type of effect. It procs at an extremely low rate and is just as unreliable as manually using Coin Flip.

I was thinking a low chance and then boosting those others to be higher.


  • 0

#10 Akilez

Akilez

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1708 posts
  • LocationGuadalajara, Mexico
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:08 PM

Do not forget to add the enchants for all of its weapons, i really need them >_>


  • 0

#11 Xeio

Xeio

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 82 posts

Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:53 PM

I was thinking a low chance and then boosting those others to be higher.

 

Thing about coinflip is like Spirit spheres it does barely anything outside of a resource to proc your buff skills. The other ones, Cracker, Magic Bullet(scales of matk/int), Triple Action, Bullseye. Only take 1-3? coins. Even then the damage is worthless to justify spending it. Coinflip at rank 5 is easy to build up to 10 coins, it may take a few extra seconds but it's hardly bad RNG. You could make it 100% at rank 5 and reduce that by 10% for every rank before it. It'll be QoL at that point(having all 10 coins works like SS or VVS weapons. 10-15 extra attack on autos is negligible and don't have to worry about it being OP.

 

SP shouldn't be a concern. Outside of solo leveling, pvm parties usually have a scholar/pvp(woe) has infinite bg blues. In the long run it's someone to look at, but not at the start.


  • 0

#12 AlmrOfAtlas

AlmrOfAtlas

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 6533 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:56 PM

Proposing Summon Spirit Sphere and Zen only work 50% of the time to make it even. Imagine prepping for Asura if Zen sometimes failed, or building up your spheres after each TSS cast if you kept losing them randomly.

Doug's 100% at rank 5 idea is good. imo a skill to generate resource stacks for skill usage should never be based on RNG. Skills like that need to have reliability, because players count on them to do a specific job. It's not at all fun or exciting when a player has it in mind to use a skill, but it fails and impairs the use of other skills due to factors beyond their control.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 17 September 2015 - 08:02 PM.

  • 0

#13 Xeio

Xeio

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 82 posts

Posted 18 September 2015 - 02:01 AM

I doubt we'll ever get rebellion unless they customize it completely. But they may have to revert the 100% coin thing in the future depending on if they can bring reb's over.

 

 

But if Ninjas could be looked at next that'd be sweet camp.

 

 

Edit:Forgot to finish my thought.


Edited by Xeio, 18 September 2015 - 02:20 AM.

  • 0

#14 Xplay4eva

Xplay4eva

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 226 posts

Posted 18 September 2015 - 05:39 AM

Pistol ASPD seems kind of slow for how low the attack on guns is.

 

I would not use a shotgun unless it had a much larger basic AOE or much higher damage.

 

To make the Chaingun viable, I would propose a radical change like making its base ASPD automatically be at or near the max with 99 AGI. The skill Gattling fever seems to do more harm than good.

 

Grenade launchers sound neat but they are not easy to craft and the ammo would need to be cheaply available in stores for launchers to even stand a chance of being used.


  • 0

#15 Nokia909

Nokia909

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 185 posts

Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:15 AM

shotguns?
Shotguns - Increase Damage Slightly, MAYBE add random AOE to all attacks?

random AOE to all attacks? <,What do you mean by this?

or just reduces the delay for every shot and BY reducing its damage?

make a lower cast delay for Full blast?reduces sp its spend on this skill,

or maybe put an slot on Gatekeeper DD :DDDDD



just a thought of
a passing lonely gunnies~
  • 0

#16 iROLee

iROLee

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 102 posts
  • Location...
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:24 AM

Hi, I came to say that there's also a decent part of the playerbase, though less present on forums, who would rather keep the game as official as possible and avoid such deep customization.

I'm sorry I'm aware this is not what most of you here want to hear, but I felt like it needed to be mentioned.


  • 0

#17 Gn1ydnu

Gn1ydnu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2077 posts
  • LocationBoston
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 22 September 2015 - 12:54 PM

Actually gunslingers are vital/were vital in Dragons. They provided the fastest/easiest way to leech up low level characters (starting at level 50) and quickly get a whole party up to the point of replacing the GS with a SinX or Sniper. 


  • 0

#18 AlmrOfAtlas

AlmrOfAtlas

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 6533 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 23 September 2015 - 02:39 PM

Hi, I came to say that there's also a decent part of the playerbase, though less present on forums, who would rather keep the game as official as possible and avoid such deep customization.

I'm sorry I'm aware this is not what most of you here want to hear, but I felt like it needed to be mentioned.


As much as we all wish Classic was vanilla Pre-Renewal, that boat sailed ages ago.
  • 0

#19 lxst

lxst

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 484 posts
  • LocationDetroit, Mi, USA
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic/Restart

Posted 27 September 2015 - 08:05 AM

making the guns that drop at below card rate at least card rate drops might improve the guners we have on the server. i dont think im qualified to suggest changes to the class itself. i will, however, be one of the first to test out the new one if changes are made :)


  • 0

#20 kijudoav

kijudoav

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 453 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:both.

Posted 27 September 2015 - 08:48 PM

Boosting the damage, ASPD, Skill Power, and reducing the SP costs for Shotgun skills... that would be a godsend...

How about this for an idea? 4-slotted Thunder-Ps! so I can play like a sniper in WoE!

and hey, maybe also adding an enchantment to Grenade Launchers as well, like enhancing the status procs on using Gunslinger Mine, i.e. using Ice Mines, monsters will stay frozen for a time, similar to Frost Driver, and maybe also having the Spheres also able to inflict the status proc on chance. when auto-attacking.


adding to that, Elemental Ammo for standard guns.

for Gattlings, yeah, a boost in ASPD and sheer power will leave a mark.

Pistols? eh, they're good enough, but yeah, as stated, skill power boosts across the board.

Rifles? Fix tracking for dang sakes! make it so it has a unique property to NOT aggro cast-sensor enemies!

but yeah, buffs for Gunslingers will make me a happy AV!
  • 0

#21 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9271 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 30 September 2015 - 01:35 PM

Okay to test various, what would we need on the classic test server?

 

A level up npc obviously,

 

A punching bag,

 

What gears?


  • 0

#22 KirinKishi808

KirinKishi808

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 984 posts
  • LocationThe Silver State Union
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos / Sakray

Posted 30 September 2015 - 03:28 PM

My suggestion/complain about GS:

 

1) The skill Coin Flip is plain stupid and it got 5 levels. Coin is double sided, so the chances should be 50/50 so the chances should go 50% at level 1 and 100% at level 2. Or make it in increment of 10% for 5 level untill you get 100%.

 

2) Or you can put the chances to get a coin on the Chain Action skill.

 

3) Gatling Fever skill is plain retarded, the "fever" should makes us GS runs faster like gene(increase movement speed), evade better(better flee), shoot faster(ASPD) and shoot more accurately(increase HIT). Give it a drawback like 10 second cooldown or something.

 

4) Increase Accuracy & Last Stand Skill is nice to have skill, but seriously 1 MINUTES??? That is too fking short for a skill that cost 4 coins. Make it 4 minutes or depending on how much coin you have at that time (max 10 minutes)

 

5) The skill Tracking is retarded AF. Make it follow the Snake Eye lvl and make it uninterruptible cast. Heck make all the skill follow the Snake Eye lvl because guns are not a weapon made for melee combat. (Crowd Control Shot skill have a retarded skill range of 3 cell)

EDIT: the cast time is not affected by DEX?? Freakin retarded indeed...

 

6) Give better ammunition to us. I mean elemental bullets of fire, water, earth, wind, shadow and ghost. Give us an Armor Piercing bullet too if you will.

 

7) Grenade Launcher weapon is quite hard to get and we need to bring materials to make Sphere for it??? Just sell this spheres on NPC and avoid all this nonsense bs.

 

8) Give the Expanded class(kagerou/oboro/Rebellion/SSN) the ability to wear Temporal boots when they are lvl 100++. Remove that transcended bs limit.


Edited by KirinKishi808, 30 September 2015 - 03:44 PM.

  • 0

#23 Scuba

Scuba

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 3074 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 30 September 2015 - 06:53 PM

Buff Spread Shot Gunslinger.

- Add Alicel Hat (just make it proc of ranged physical attacks, this would also add flexible viability to sinxs)

- Double Damage of SS

- Keep SP cost the same

 

Gunslinger would be an AoE threat that would challenge the ME stacking meta.


Edited by Scuba, 30 September 2015 - 07:07 PM.

  • 0

#24 Nokia909

Nokia909

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 185 posts

Posted 30 September 2015 - 10:11 PM

test server?
of course a punching beg.


-Elemantal bullet, good idea, already have holy,normal and blooody WE NEED to have others too.
-ADD EXTRA slot to the weapon ?
-before i forget,MAKE OTHERS JOB CAN MAKE Bullet Cartridges too.
Its just pain to make when you have only 1 str and no extra weight limit.
-reduces sp used for Full blasstttt pleaseeeee or just reduces the delay after using this skill.
(the delay is outstandingly long and it can be interuppted so think about it+when you are soloing liked me you will feel the harshness of this skil
and also it would be so exciting if the after effect when using this skill i mean chance to get blind imply also at the target but with a lower chance)

-etc..all people ^above^ already point out other problem.

-Make the gunslinger class competitive but not too OP that can easily outclass others job.

LONG LIVE LOKIIIIII !!!!!

Edited by Nokia909, 30 September 2015 - 10:23 PM.

  • 0

#25 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 30 September 2015 - 11:53 PM

Buff Spread Shot Gunslinger.

- Add Alicel Hat (just make it proc of ranged physical attacks, this would also add flexible viability to sinxs)

- Double Damage of SS

- Keep SP cost the same

 

Gunslinger would be an AoE threat that would challenge the ME stacking meta.

 

With Alicel procced using a bg weapon on a 150 dex gunslinger - under WoE reductions

alternatively....

 

 

Minimum Damage    1175
Average Damage    1222
Maximum Damage    1269
Damage Per Second    1629.33

 

Doubled.... = 3,258 dps

 

 

or a 1 vit build with no Alicel

 

Minimum Damage    1308
Average Damage    1359
Maximum Damage    1409
Damage Per Second    1812

 

log on multiple gunners.....

 

3 gunners gives just ~ 10k AOE dps in WoE settings without provoke or battle chant or any fancy stuff.

 

Nice


Edited by Xellie, 30 September 2015 - 11:53 PM.

  • 0



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users