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CR - Defender/Commander Skill Issues 9/30/15 - Add Opinions/Suggestions


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#1 BloodyHalo

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 01:36 PM

The main issues originate from the Defender Tree.  You can already see that most of the skills are pointless, and they don't even lead into something you can really use in the next job class.  I will be speaking from a pvp standpoint on this, but even with pve they skills don't provide any meaningful attributes.
 
If you look closely, all 7 of the defender (and then later commander's) attack skills do pretty much the EXACT same thing (With the exception of an aoe or weak dot effect here or there).  Shield strike has a short stun, and BeamSlash is a fairly weak ranged attack with a long CD. But there is absolutely no benefit you get from using ANY of the 7 skills except for their damage output/aoes.
 
In Depth: (Defender)
 
Chain Slash -  Feeder Skill
 
Dire Strike - Feeder Skill
 
Onslaught - Decent Damage, not mandatory
 
Vital Stab - Pointless
 
Shield Strike - Must Have
 
Fighting Will - Feeder Skill
 
Quick Attack - Pointless (Only used to ward off soccer kick)
 
Taunt - Feeder Skill
 
Taunting Cry - Pointless (Unless you want to waste points extending the range to catch sins, but they are usually smart enough to stay pretty far away, and the ones that aren't usually die pretty quick).
 
Physical Blessing - Feeder Skill
 
Survival Instinct - Must Have
 
Skin of Stone - Meh, gets soccer kicked 99% of the time.  Other wise it is decent.
 
 
 
Looking at this, you have Two, maybe Three skills that are actually useful or make a difference. 
 
All the others are just there to mash buttons.  My suggestion would be to add skills that actually matter to this class, because right now it is just mash this button for this attack, mash the other for that attack.
 
For defender, something like the uplifting cry would be better served, or a beam slash that doesn't do a whole lot of damage but adds a ranged option + slow (Since defenders do not have rush).
 
If you have a specific suggestion that a Vmod has not already commented on for Defenders that you REALLY think is amazing and has to be put in the game yesterday, let me know and I'll post it in our suggestions. 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
Commanders are the same problem as their Defender children.  They have a few limited skills that don't really do anything.  Commanders, as well as protectors, suffer from a disease called "Repetition", as our main skills LITERALLY do nothing other damage, dot, or aoe (Aside from the couple of meaningful buffs), and none of them do it very well. This is pretty much a repeat of what is already here but I added it again.  
 
 
Crisscross Slash - Feeder Skill, at one time was better than boomerang, but I believe they fixed it. - 
 
Boomerang Sword Aura - Just another attack aoe skill with a weak dot.  The damage from which is actually a LOT worse than the defender's skill Onslaught.  Could completely survive without it.
 
Beam Slash -  Nerfed because it was too powerful, it is now useless except to scare people off high objects.  It doesn't do enough damage to actually hurt anyone of the same lvl.  It could be more effective in its original form now since everybody has defense, or it could ignore a % of defense.  
 
Moonlight Slash - Another awesome skill that was nerfed.  It now (statistically) does less damage than onslaught, even with the damage over time effect it still has little point except to visually be the coolest looking skill in Requiem.  
 
Promise of Victory - Pointless, anti - soccer kick
 
Uplifting Cry - I mean its great to be faster, but for a high end skill at level 80 I would expect something more like Counter Attack...Or something much more useful than running faster when I already have a RUSH and a SLOW.  This helps out my teammates much more than myself most of the time.
 
Adamant Mind - Must have, otherwise commanders would be obsolete.  This skill and face strike are the only reason our class exists.  HOWEVER it does not negate damage and is also rendered pointless when it comes to tanking damage.
 
On Handed Mastery - Commander damage is so low, this mastery actually doesn't help out that much.  Use it or don't, it matters little.
 
Rush -  Must have if you have experience, otherwise it just gets you killed.  I actually use this skill to retreat more than to run into damage. This skill needs a stun at the end of sort like the Berserker and Assassin has.
 
Chain of Restraint - Great for catching sins, decent to have otherwise.  Perhaps if it was an aoe it would be more effective.
 
Face Strike - Our "op" skill, even though it tends to miss ALOT, even with a 93% effective hit rate.  On targets with high EVA it is even worse.  It does just what it says, silences one target for a certain time, but when there are 6 casters around you that doesn't help all that much.  You really just pick the caster doing the most damage, and kill it if you are 1vs1, or kill a weaker opponent and retreat if you are surrounded.  Or die.  <-----This being the usual result.
 
 
So as you can see, we again have only 2 skills that we really NEED.  All of the other skills are just simple attack skills to fill attack slots.  They do not do anything extra or interesting, nor are they needed to come up with patterns and strategies.  You can see every Commander with their Moonlight Slash  but in retrospect it actually DOES nothing.  It is even (Statistically) worse than our defender Onslaught skill.   <---This makes me sad.
 
 
Needs:
 
Scorpion Skill -  Causes damage, short stun, and brings enemy player to casters current location.  This can be used to get players from sitting in aoes, and will make for a much more interesting pvp experience for both sides.
 
Reflect/Absorb Skill - Instead of healing or reflecting damage, this skill could slow others down/inhibit them from casting for a few seconds, or it could cause each attack to replenish a commanders hp for a short time.  We don't need heals, we are fighting way to much to worry about them anyways.  Let the support rads and prots worry about healing.
 
True Damage Skill - A skill that actually causes legitimate damage and a decent negative side affect.  Protector's Low Blow does a lot more damage than our Moonlight...which is embarrassing.
 
 
Other:
 
Adjust the other skills to do something meaningful, for example A berserk has skills that lower def/stun, some of our skills should do something like that, however they all just aoe/dot, which when you have no damage in the first place does nothing for you.  I can give more input on these with more thought in the future.  If you have suggestions that you want the Mods/Helium to definitely read, let me know and I'll directly suggest it to them (If it is relatively decent >_>)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Edited by BloodyHalo, 30 September 2015 - 03:38 PM.

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#2 Sandyman

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:49 PM

Well thats all good and right. If you look from a Today Perspective.

 

But Commander was for the first 5 or 6 Years total OP. And dominated the last FoC bracket like no other Class.

(remember Gorky?)

 

And now it`s still the Boss for 69 FoC.

 

So this Class just begin to experience how it felt for the remaining Classes in the Past.

(Ofc. Commy was always one of the most Gear depending Classes)

 

 

But i can agree with you, that the Class needs a Upgrade for the Future.  

 

 

So what are the Characteristics from this Class?

 

Spoiler

 

 

So you could say DMG is not really his main Purpose. It`s more of a Supportive Nature.

 

In the Past it was very crucial to have Turans on the Battlefield.

 

Buffs from Tempest like: Templar_Blessing_of_Haste.gifTemplar_Weapon_of_God.gif  or Defense Buffs from Protector decided about win or lose.

 

That`s the real Problem for a Supportive, Defensive Race like Turan. The Inflation of Stats.

 

So personally i think a Turan should not be a effective Killer like a Berserker or Assassin / Shadow-runner.

 

But he should be buffed to compete on Battlefields. 

 

Xenoa are good against Kruxena (Stealth VS Anti Stealth)...

 

Kruxena are good against Turans, (debuff VS buffs)

 

Bartuks good against Xenoa. (Physical Strong and Spiritual Weak VS Spiritual Strong and Physical Weak)

 

This is only simplified. But each Class is supposed to have a Counterpart on the Battlefield. At least in the Past.

 

The Rock-Scissor-Paper Principe. So Turans should be strong against Bartuks if you ask me.

 

But that`s pretty much gone thanks to the Cash Shop Power.

 

So i don`t say Commander should only be good against Bartuk and useless against each other thats not right.

 

But a Class like Commander should not be so OP against everyone like we saw it for the first Years in Game.

 

That`s why i suggested to give him more ground control Skills and lesser DMG. 

 

His High Block Potential is fine against pure AA Types. So he already can have a role on the Battlefield. 

 

He also can intercept a Caster to force him Back. Problem is most Commy don`t want to go back before the Kill.

 

So mby. the Problem is more Role Play based^^

 

If you give one Class a Heal like Berserker like they did...other begin to Scream for it as well.

 

And the dilute of Classes is not stoppable. We all talking about this since Years. I`m really getting tired of it.

 

But i guess you Class Rep. have more Fire than me left.


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#3 BloodyHalo

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 03:17 PM

 

 

 

But Commander was for the first 5 or 6 Years total OP. And dominated the last FoC bracket like no other Class.

(remember Gorky?)

 

I'd give them an op award of 2-3 years, and mainly at the very beginning of ReQQ, and then during the time of the Defense ignore skills.

 

Plus Protectors were the same, just heal and be at the top of every bracket, Glorious and Brilliant armors were beast back then.  Also, a lot of these commis were op prots who were so used to not dying that when prots were nerfed they switched to commander class and refused to go with just the "decent" gear.

 

Commies had op potential, but never at the ridiculous levels that other classes have now.

 

 

And now it`s still the Boss for 69 FoC.

 

Kinda, but that is more becuase cap def and res mean something at that lvl, not because commanders are op.  Once you get to higher lvls people are pumping out amazing damage where defenses mean a lot less.

 

So this Class just begin to experience how it felt for the remaining Classes in the Past.

(Ofc. Commy was always one of the most Gear depending Classes)

 

Exactly, and many of the past players did not spend hundreds on the game to make their class op.

 

 

But i can agree with you, that the Class needs a Upgrade for the Future.  

 

I would say now, unless you want to stay 69, the upper levels will get you massacred.  I've played/fought every class of the game for years.  Commanders get weaker with age.

 

 

 

The Rock-Scissor-Paper Principe. So Turans should be strong against Bartuks if you ask me.

 

This is actually who we are weakest against atm thanks to high def, high hp, and high damage.

 

 

But a Class like Commander should not be so OP against everyone like we saw it for the first Years in Game.

 

No, but it is supposed to be all around good, not GREAT at any one thing (Or so it seems from our skil set/stats)

 

That`s why i suggested to give him more ground control Skills and lesser DMG. 

 

1k scad is a lot for us, hitting 2k on cap defense is also alot for most commies, so if we had less damage we would not be killing anyone.  Maybe not more damage, but certainly not less.

 

His High Block Potential is fine against pure AA Types. So he already can have a role on the Battlefield. 

 

Go Duel a sin or a zerk with this theory and then come back with this theory.  I have 80%+ block.

 

He also can intercept a Caster to force him Back. Problem is most Commy don`t want to go back before the Kill.

 

ONE caster, this only urges other casters forward because they know he cannot silence them.

 

 

 

If you give one Class a Heal like Berserker like they did...other begin to Scream for it as well.

 

Nooo don't give us a heal, that's too boring and takes away from the support classes.  I am in support of an absorb damage skill though.

 

 

 


Edited by BloodyHalo, 30 September 2015 - 03:18 PM.

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#4 Sandyman

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 05:03 PM

well the AA Types you speak about are not the average Player.

 

I never speak about fully +30 Perspective because i`m not interested to support this Nonsense System.

 

What good comes from such a System where 70% of the Player quit when they realize how long it takes to make it happen/compete.

 

And other 25% simply don`t even understand it.

 

 

The Wep/Armor stat System needs a fully replace. We need Weps and Arms which support Skills and DNA System not the Stats.

 

All they did was increase the HP and DMG Values to a Point where the Class balancing was bound to collapse.

 

And now you Guys want to fight Fire with Fire. 

 

Either you have to complete rework all Classes and ignore their Characteristic like they try`d for Berserker.

 

Or you have to revamp the items they use. To give the Classes their "Job" back.

 

This Problem was not created over night no it was fed nearly over a Decade to become this Monster.

 

And Dev`s still only looking for the easy Ways to fix it. With small intervention so nobody screams^^.

 

Newsflash nearly everyone who onces predicted this Years ago is gone or huskily.

 

-

Anyway there are a few Ways to take DMG or HP out of the Game that could be interesting for Turans:

 

->

Spoiler

 

evolve em or just do your "Alteris Way" not like many Care anymore at this Point.


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#5 BloodyHalo

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 05:33 PM

Well after this event you will have to assume 90% of people are now +30, maybe not with good enchants but at least +30.  I would rather have skills that do something other than hp and dmg boosts.  Otherwise things will just get more and more out of hand.  But hey, anything is better than leaving it the way things are now.  But We can all agree nobody is going to roll back the game to how it was before.


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#6 Sandyman

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 05:43 PM

90% of the Players are +30 ?

 

I heavy doubt that even if you split that in half.

 

Maybe you should ask Helium next time as a CR about this. I will gift you my Requiem T-Shirt if your right.

 

Well this Game focus around PvP. I rather have other Skills too but the Chances to see that are pretty low.

 

Lets say a transformation Skill to turn Enemy's into a Golem for example. Or a Skill that can steal Lant from the Enemy.

 

I suggested this and many more already. But at the End they Focus only on improvements that are bound to the Blacksmith or DNA System.


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#7 BloodyHalo

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 05:54 PM

After the next 70% forge I would REALLY be shocked if at least not 90% of all lvl 90 players were +30.  Realistically I'll drop it to 80%, but with the abundance of foc points you'd have to be trying very hard not to be.  

 

I want that T-shirt >_>


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#8 Sandyman

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 06:03 PM

I speak about all Players not only level 90 ones. Myself have a couple level 90 Chars.

 

But only one of em is close to half +30 items. Well i`m not the standard level 90 Player i assume^^

 

I prefer to play under geared or on the lower Maps. I might have the resources but i simply refuse to become part of the Problem.

 

Even if that`s mean to focus on Support Classes for the Battlefields. (Contri from Heals)

 

Everyone wants a Sprigan close to his Heart <3   :chomok03:


Edited by Sandyman, 30 September 2015 - 06:04 PM.

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#9 NorrinRadd

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 06:28 PM

Don't have time to properly reply, I have quite a few opinions on this class, as I have played a 69 commie and 49 defender and have ujced my prot a few times to commie and have to say, I preferred playing prot.
I do want to however quickly point out,
Sandy, you have to approach the game from a +30 perspective, nearly all the players are like that. And what war says about block being useless, is absolutely true. My prot runs 72% block unbuffed. I got wrecked by an aa sin while spamming heals withing 20 seconds.
And btw getting that 72 block meant I had to sacrifice quite a few of my jewel slots for block instead of scad.
Approaching this from a +15 or less standpoint won't help. It's not the games current state.

Oh and some nice ideas war. I love that scorpion sting idea. Not sure commie is the right class for it though.
As for the absorption reflection. I was thinking a 30 second skill where you get a shield that absorbs all damage equal to your shields block damage.
So imagine all attacks against you doing 500 less dmg.
Haha and at the end of that your shield detonates in a 8m radius with 50% of all the damage it absorbed
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#10 Sandyman

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:01 PM

Block is not meant to win the Fight. Special not VS a Assassin.

 

It supposed to help to defend or survive long enough.

 

You see this from a total wrong Side. You can`t win VS a Assassin as a Protector 1vs1 thats not intended.

 

Or else you would need to rename the Protector to Killer^^

 

If you say the Block Potential is not good enough...well alright i can agree on that. To help Commy better against AA.

 

And i say ofc. you have to see this Game from a +15 Perspective. 

 

Why?

 

Without new Player, this game is forced to getting more and more unbalanced. Like we saw it with Zerk.

 

Till even the old Player quit.


Edited by Sandyman, 30 September 2015 - 07:04 PM.

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#11 NorrinRadd

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 06:42 AM

Yes it's supposed to help survive, but I just told you prot with 1k block dmg and 72 % block, I lasted 20 seconds. Commie is even worse.
I never said I was supposed to win, I'm just showing you that block doesn't do much these days.
Even with 100% block and 1.4k block dmg, top sins can do 2k on me. I have 40k hp. My defiler lasts longer vs aa sins than my prot.
Woa, what are new players doing in bgs? What new player thinks he can rock in a bg if he's only +10 or +15.
Nah sandy, you can't use that as a base line. It's naive and we both know it.

And someone mentioned that commies were op for the longest time in 69 foc
That I'd quite untrue. The only op commies were the hardcore malled ones. Any other commie would get absolutely shredded when he dashed into aoes. Even in 69.
If you gona be fair, compare fairly. A +15 commie in 69 vs +15 other toons, here's the results.
Vs zerk, loss
Vs wl, tie
Vs sin, loss
Vs sr, loss
Vs mystic, loss
Vs elem, loss
Vs druid, no idea at this point
Vs rad, tie possible loss
Vs tempest, tie possible win
Vs saker, loss possible tie
Vs prot, loss
Vs defiler, tie, possible win
Vs avenger, loss possible tie depending on trap luck
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#12 NorrinRadd

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 09:20 AM

I actually had some pretty cool skill ideas for a commander. Doubt they are realistically possible though.
First off, the whole point of a commander is to charge in and break the ranks.
But just having a rush skill and 1 hush doesn't do that.
So my ideas
Moonlight slash - add in a new effect. casters can no longer use skills that require a cast time. Short duration.
Criss cross crap - add in new effect. Shreds a % of the players current hp. Increasing per level. At lvl 10 it does its regular damage and an additional 10% divided by the amount of players it hits.
Uplifting cry - add in new effect. For every ally who gets your buff, you get a bonus 1% in hp,mp,melee dmg,resist,defense,scad.
Face strike - new dna. Aoe face strike. Can either take this dna or the extend duration. Face strike now can hit multiple players. For every aditional player it hits, the duration is extended by 1 second. Increase range and targets per level.

That's it for now. I can explain the reasoning behind the ideas if you want
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#13 Kazara

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 09:41 AM

Face Strike AOE? Not possible unless you change the animation lol, looks pretty stupid u smash a target with shield and other far targets get silence too x'D


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#14 BloodyHalo

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 10:09 AM

Don't have time to properly reply, I have quite a few opinions on this class, as I have played a 69 commie and 49 defender and have ujced my prot a few times to commie and have to say, I preferred playing prot.
I do want to however quickly point out,
Sandy, you have to approach the game from a +30 perspective, nearly all the players are like that. And what war says about block being useless, is absolutely true. My prot runs 72% block unbuffed. I got wrecked by an aa sin while spamming heals withing 20 seconds.
And btw getting that 72 block meant I had to sacrifice quite a few of my jewel slots for block instead of scad.
Approaching this from a +15 or less standpoint won't help. It's not the games current state.

Oh and some nice ideas war. I love that scorpion sting idea. Not sure commie is the right class for it though.
As for the absorption reflection. I was thinking a 30 second skill where you get a shield that absorbs all damage equal to your shields block damage.
So imagine all attacks against you doing 500 less dmg.
Haha and at the end of that your shield detonates in a 8m radius with 50% of all the damage it absorbed

 

Thats what I thought becuase since a commander is supposed to break lines a whip woudnt really make sense, but it could be like a spear or something that moves players out of protective aoes.

 

Also, someone has been playing too much Diablo >_>

 

Block is not meant to win the Fight. Special not VS a Assassin.

 

It supposed to help to defend or survive long enough.

 

You see this from a total wrong Side. You can`t win VS a Assassin as a Protector 1vs1 thats not intended.

 

Or else you would need to rename the Protector to Killer^^

 

If you say the Block Potential is not good enough...well alright i can agree on that. To help Commy better against AA.

 

And i say ofc. you have to see this Game from a +15 Perspective. 

 

Why?

 

Without new Player, this game is forced to getting more and more unbalanced. Like we saw it with Zerk.

 

Till even the old Player quit.

 

Block shouldn't win the battle, but it should make a big difference to where a sin should have to actually fear that they cant just sit there and aa for 15 seconds.

 

Face Strike AOE? Not possible unless you change the animation lol, looks pretty stupid u smash a target with shield and other far targets get silence too x'D

 

I don't like it either it feels funny, like a fake shield strike that doesn't do anything (Half the time I can't tell if it hit or not becuase it feels like a miss xD)


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#15 NorrinRadd

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 10:17 AM

Well I did not mean that large of a splash radius for the hush, maybe 8m max. And maybe add like a flash to the attack?
And also definitely have it directional splash, so like burning meteor
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#16 Vernon

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:11 PM

I like ur ideas Norrin!


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#17 Sandyman

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 04:50 PM

Commander rules 69 not because of +30 , this would make no sense if all other are +30 too.

 

It`s simple because of Adamant Mind and his Skills.

 

And it`s not naive to think from +15 View. Since +30 did nothing good to the Game.

 

It became the Downfall nothing else. 


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#18 NorrinRadd

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:00 AM

Commander rules 69 not because of +30 , this would make no sense if all other are +30 too.

It`s simple because of Adamant Mind and his Skills.

And it`s not naive to think from +15 View. Since +30 did nothing good to the Game.

It became the Downfall nothing else.

Not exactly. At +30 the commie gets enough hp from the armor and enough resist and defense where he can actually do some substantial damage. While at +15 his dmg is absolutely sad compare to dashing into 2 mystic aoes. And also can't compete with the heals.
Now what skills are you talking about? AM? Barely lasts long enough at 69. At 90 sure it's nice, until a sin sks you. And keeping at 11 buffs is near impossible with the amount of debuffs and dots around.
FS? At 69 misses near always. At 90 sure it's op 1v1. And only 1v1
And? What else you got?
Again, you keep talking about +15 being the best and +30 being the downfall. Yes I agree it was the downfall. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Pretending it's not a +30 or gtfo is not going to help the balancing solution. Be real man. Balance the game at +30 instead of pretending people still play at +15.
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#19 Sandyman

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:28 AM

And that`s exactly why i did not sent an application.

 

I don`t want to feel instrumented as a +30 Promoter.

 

And become part of the Problem.

 

You can think it`s silly or futile. But only because it seams to be the only way 

 

Don`t makes it the right Way. 


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#20 NorrinRadd

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 07:24 AM

@ bloody
Yeah that detonation thing I took from d3 lol...actually vince made me play tera so no time for d3. Not a big fan of the changes this season tbh. Cube is nice but, ww barb still op, and considering I already have a nearly perfect one on nonladder, not interested in making a new one.
And seems you took your idea from mortal combat lol
@ sandy
Eh, you do know that trying to balance the game for +15 will make it even worse for bgs.

Anywho, I put in my 2 cents for interesting skill changes.
Don't think more skills is a good idea, just new effects on existing skills.
Promise of victory needs a revamp too. Though atm I can't think of anything brilliant to change it to.
Well, that's not exactly true. I have a brilliant idea but it's insane.
Promise of Victory - 5-10% chance to ignore all damage, 1-5% chance to heal 1-2% hp when hit, 1-5% chance to ignore defense on attack, 1-5% chance of causing permanent bind. Self buff.
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#21 BloodyHalo

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 02:57 PM

And seems you took your idea from mortal combat lol
 

 

 

Touche'


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#22 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 05 October 2015 - 10:16 PM

Warning: wall of text incoming (my classic style!)

 

 

 

OK, since you are now officially the class representative, I will try to add my thoughts as well.

 

Some of you, mostly the “oldies”, probably know that Commander is my beloved class and the only class I ever played in Requiem. I did so for 4 good years, until the whole thing became truly out of hand with the mess (well yeah, these days it is even worse). It is also fairly known that I “mallwh*red” like a boss and was one of the first ones to have fully +30 8/8 gear around, and so on.

 

Now, it is also known that I had “my own way” to play this game with this class and I was almost entirely PvE focused. I certainly know that you prefer PvP and this is fine. Although I am not around anymore, I am well aware that PvE has been reduced to a complete joke and is almost irrelevant. Yet, it is still my belief that Requiem IS still a MMORPG, and thus it IS a PvE game, no we don't have a MOBA here.

 

Obviously, PvP (but pretty please just don’t tell me … “competitive”, LOL) always required the best gear, the most spending and such, for obvious reasons. There used to be times though, and some might remember, that PvE and raids used to be a challenge, used to be fun, even used to make you proud upon completion. It used to be that classes were classes and not “classes”, at least to a far greater extent. It used to be that gear mattered, but gear was not everything. It used to be that quality of gear, well even reinforcement meant something. It used to be that enchantment choices were fairly limited and NOT the determining factor. It used to be that all this together, even at “+30” level was still in line with the difficulty and challenges Requiem had to offer.

 

We all know this is no more. And OK, you all talk about PvP, and again fair enough, but come on, you and THEY have turned this into some idiotic and very FAIL “arena”, completely without balance, a total mess, and a huge time and money sinkhole.

 

But I will get back to the Commander. So… the basic question, so we get to the roots, what IS the Commander? Or what it used to be?

 

My answer: the Commander is a TANK. The whole Defender class and advanced jobs are TANKS, like it or not. While Protector is obviously the “tanky tank”, and excels in this role, along with healing capabilities, the Commander is the “dps tank”, but still a TANK. Why on Earth all the skills and philosophy revolves around PLATE (heaviest armouring), SHIELD and ONE handed weaponry? Correct, because this is what TANKS use for their trade.

 

Having said that, I would like to remind everyone that Commanders CAN also tank, and in fact, once, could do so all right. Again, to clarify: Protectors will do it BETTER. But, Commanders can, or rather COULD, do it.

 

There is also something else we all tend to forget. The matter of CHOICE. When you are given a pool of skills to use, it should in theory make it possible for some personal CHOICE. For somewhat different styles of game play. Within the context of the same class, sure. Well, it used to be, that Commanders, with the skills they had available, could also perform as tanks. Their increased dps, at the time, was a means to sustain agro, surely a Protector would do better, but a well geared Commander had no problem. I had no problem doing ET, later even doing AoS, you name it.

 

That was a personal preference, but still possible. It isn’t anymore. It all ended when the (S)CAD values went through the roof, when HP values reached the stars, alongside with def and resistance values. And, nope, I am not talking about “tanks”, I am talking about just every class, and certainly “clothies”. Now, THAT made PvE “irrelevant”. That also made classes like the Commander irrelevant.

 

And this is why you / we are only left with whatever “PvP”, but you know it better that it is a lost game there, at most Commanders are fodder or suicide kamikazes for the glory of a few quick kills, maybe. Fun? If you say so…

 

I have no clue what could be done in that department about specific skills and whatnot. We could talk and experiment forever. I could throw in a ton of ideas and suggestions.

 

But in a nutshell, and although I believe the whole game is so messed up that little truly can be done unless we have drastic changes, Commanders do need a MAJOR boost in their dps capacity. Because this is what is left for them to do, maybe.

 

Our “skills”, and you correctly think most of them are “useless”, are useless NOW, they were not so very bad before. Not awesome, but not junk. For example, what is the purpose of a laughable DoT  of say 100… what… 100? When folks have 30k for starters? Or how about 50k+ HPs? What is that DoT supposed to do there? Or, lol, anyway, those DoTs would not even do much in PvE, mobs and bosses…

 

Also, how about the “base damage” of most skills… really. Most of tem belong to the times when 1k damage was actually some damage indeed. All that matters now is how much (S)CAD you have to add, and your “base” damage too. What you get from skills is almost negligible.

 

So, yeah, at least for the available skills, a pretty major re-vamp is needed, both in terms of their damage capacity and what they actually do and the purpose they serve. Obviously, there would need to be some new skills introduced, and perhaps a few old ones that are truly obsolete removed (or even, they should not require any skill points invested to unlock the skill tree further).

 

I am sure there can be many suggestions made, and through discussion those skills and values could reach some common ground. But…

 

This will just not be enough. It will not be enough for Commanders, or actually any other “gimped” class. I have said it many times, the whole system right now SUCKS.

 

Unless there is a truly brave and ground breaking decision to re-think EVERYTHING and start anew. And this should really include all gear, all stats, all capabilities and effects, and certainly all those FREAKING additional “enchants” that are so game breaking now when they can just boost “stats” by a huge % just on their own accord.

 

What is the point of searching for the “holy grail” in classes and their skills, when they will always be irrelevant compared to what you can gain from gear and “enchants”. Yeah of course, there are those “god mode” ridiculous skills that some FOTM classes sport currently, but wait a second, these are also made even MORE ridiculous in their outcome due to… guessed it, the “gear”.

 

So, these are again my final (?) words that go to the reps, mods, devs and anyone else. If you all really care about making this little game, and it saddens that is now “little”, into something much better, and at least harvest the capacity it once had… Don’t just look into part of the picture. It needs a truly major and bold break. This inevitably involves the cash shop and spending and “business plans”.

 

I can tell you that Requiem will never be a WoW or whatnot, and no one wants that either I guess, but is there a future with 100 or OK I will be ultra generous!, 1000 players around? And finally, don’t just think about “end game”, the “journey” can be a good experience too, and new players could enjoy that journey, if it really has something to offer and merit the investment of time and effort.


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#23 Vernon

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 02:45 AM

Hi Ninn! How Are u? It was a long time ago when we played together:)

Thanks for ur comment, I read all. Well, I'm also class representative, so I'm happy if somebody try to help us with ideas or with any kind of suggestions, problems. I can understand u. I also should have posted here, but warmachine already did it about our class and I mostly agree with him, but there are some more aspects he didn't write down, but i realized and suggested on Trello ( it's the worklpace for us). I can mention some of them:

- for PVE style: as u wrote its a joke nowadays. Every mage can tanking :( Usually the highest dmg do it. Btw 5-10mins a raid pt, wtf.  I told to VMBlueberry that every bosses should be much more stronger. Need some more hp as well, and much higher dmg, becouse only prot and commy should be able to act like a tank. We wear shield also from the beginnings. And other problem, mages can tanking becouse taunt cry skill is a joke. I suggested that it should have 5times higher hostility.

- HP: In +30 gear we have 35-40k hp. It can be a lil more with full regals but thats pretty rare. Zerks/WLs have 55-60k. WTF? Its too much difference. As war posted we have a lots of useless skills,buffs. I suggested that one of them should give HP. Like 1% on each lvl. Even +10% hp on lvl10 wouldn't be too op. That would be only 1more shoot for mages lol :o But would help for us a littlebit, mostly on battlefield where commy die like an insect. Even I think we need that buff, could be passive one. And also would be useful in pve if bosses could be more stronger.

- DMG: I also suggested on Trello, we need more dmg. They could raise the basic short range phy attack power for this class, or make higher some attack skills's values.

The problems: I wrote to war he agreed it, problem is with people from other classes. If u check classes in alban on a busy day, u could see there are lot of defi,temp,zerk, elf etc. Commy? usually just I try do make some fun, maybe one more if Aulric login. We can say there are 10 Op zerk from 100 or 10 op temp from 100, defi etc. Commy? There are just 2-3op from 2-3 but they are fanatics, and +30 ofc. What ppl start to say? COMMY IS TOO OP!!! They dunno, dont realize IF would be 100commy then 95+ wouldn't be op. They just see 2-3 and shout: nerf nerf!!! I ask it, if commy soo op then why only 2-3 ppl play with this class? why not everybody? becouse more ppl tried it and they died, they dont like that no heal skill etc. Commy is not so easy and op how ppl think! need experience to fight well, to know how to play as in pve as in pvp. You Ninn say need more dmg coz u are commy, u can see the truth. BUT, if i start to suggest this in front of everybody, they would tell me hey matey are u crazy? commy is too OP.... Somebody suggested here that would be a nice idea to make face strike like aoe skill for example with 10m radius. I even didnt think about it coz ppl from other class could become mad..what even if i would suggest that commy should have that 8k dmg skill from zerks. They would kill me.... It is sooo sad, that we cant make a really balance, becouse everybody is blind. 
Anyway, I did some suggestions just like war, we try to do our best, we rly would like if this class could become stronger again, like it was a long time ago..
In my view: I would add a lot of things into this game, like craft system, pve ppl enjoy if they can pick up flowers to make healing potion wich would give 2-3k hp not only 800?!? Or stones,gems etc to craft some armor or weaps. for pvp ppl could be an arena like colosseum. I would wear cloak on my back, it could give some more extra stat, or just decoration i dont mind. I would change this pk system as well. For raids would be more easier if everybody could apply for raid pt, they would select that they are tank,dps or heal and as soon as there is a pt they would be loaded into instance. I dont want copy every other games, but there are very nice ideas.
At last, i have more things in my mind, i already told them to Helium, we can see what gonna happen in the future. Dont forget Hope never die :D And i wait more useful ideas,suggestions from everybody about this class, even if its only about nerf nerf, i/we will read it. THX! ;)

P.S: I know there were more topics about skill/class changes for commies, i read them (and i think war read also) to see how everybody wants the changes, but if somebody has a new idea then feel free to post it, u are in time:)


Edited by Vernon, 06 October 2015 - 02:57 AM.

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#24 NorrinRadd

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 06:46 AM

Yeah, mages tanking makes no sense
I am willing to let a +30 mage at lvl 90 being able to tank rh and biskra. But dc and higher, should be prot or commie, and et + should be prot only.
They should increase boss dmg vs cloth armor 100%
Let's see a mystic tank aos when he's getting hit for 15k
The other problem is that block doesn't do much. I mean cmon even the best prot in the game will have what 1.4k block damage? When a boss is hitting 6k, that 1.4k really doesn't do much at all.
Same applies to commie. You guys have what 500 block damage? It's a joke in pve and pvp. Best case it's useful in TD.

@vern
With regards to the hush. I think the biggest issue is the duration of the hush in a 1v1 scenario. My suggestion was to have an option to make it aoe but not be able to dna the duration. So 13 second aoe hush. Which is on par with silence trap. Considering I am mostly a rad and defiler player, I can honestly say I would be perfectly ok with commie having a 13 sec aoe hush. Smallish range. None of that absurd wl root range

I absolutely agree that commie and prot hp is a joke. No hp buff, no passive hp. While zerk wl elem mystic saker all get hp bonuses.

Tho tbh I would love to see plate armor giving %hp bonus instead of just a skill
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#25 TheNanny

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Posted 06 October 2015 - 04:54 PM

What can i say as a commy... We were fine as a class and pretty balanced just Gravity overpowered other classes so we arepoor now. If you wont nerf other classes just give us damage and HP because its crazy to go like: (full +30 commy, full regals vs simply +30 zerk) zerk win with more then 50% HP. So think a little :P not talking about mages because it was pretty long time i wasnt in the battlefield but i bet their aoes with 3k on cap killing us (commanders) easily. Think gravity...think...


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