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CR - Commander/Defender Problems (In A Nutshell)


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#1 BloodyHalo

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:02 PM

The reason why you have people hating commanders and commanders hating people is that they are weak, and have one very annoying skill that can be used to harass one individual of their choosing on the opposing side.  
 
The original Developers either made the defender and commander class first or last, because you can see that they did not know how much detail they wanted to put into each skill, or last, becuase they were just too tired after creating every other races, that they just threw some generic attack skills in there.
  
Commanders on average have:
 
Average HP
Above Average Defense
Low Damage
No Healing
Slightly Above Average Block
Very Low Skill Importance
 
- I Believe this is supposed to feel like a more all around class with moderate tanking capabilities based on what we have been given to work with, unfortunately in today's world when everyone has maxed defenses a race with very low melee damage cannot survive. 
 
Take Hp as an example, a pretty good commander has around 30+khp.  Their block would be around 40-50%, which does not really matter when it comes to casters/sins/Zerk unblockables.  There is absolutely no way to tank the damage outputs with these stats when other races are taking away 10k life in 2 seconds.  If a Protector can't tank it, we certainly can't.
 
- Either you have a protectors block + heals (which even they fall after a short while), or you have beserker's counter/hp.  Commanders have neither of these classes survival skills, which means they are pure glass on the battlefield when it comes to tanking.  
 
Low survival, Low damage, and no support skills whatsoever.  Me, pumping out arguably great (for my class) damage on cap defense means nothing against a caster who has max def and can just wait for Face Strike to wear off, or a zerk with 60+khp who for some reason has counter AND a heal.  Yes you can get more scad, but this usually comes at a price.  You can load up on regals, but it is not going to save you.  And the average commander is not even going to have that great of enchants, so think of how fast they explode. 
 
- In a test It took a tempest around 10 seconds with one aoe and a few pew pews to wear down my 40khp, and in that time I could not out damage his minor heal.  That makes me sad.
 
I touched more on it in the skills section, but it just feels like commanders were given a bunch of straightforward attack skills with no purpose or thought behind them.  They don't do anything, and we have no strategy except "Face Strike whoever hits the hardest and then try to chop him down before he kills you."  This is a very interesting class that seemed to just fall short because the Dev's got bored after making the other classes.  You see no uniqueness or interesting skills, and it's the same with Protector.  Hit this, run here, stun that, run here, hit this, die.  A fun and fast paced class, just very under-powered.
 
- Another issue is that the skills limit Commander to only using a shield and sword.  You cannot stun with a 2H, and without that you're dead.  We have no ranged weapon options, and we cannot, and don't want to use Dual Swords. Options would be nice.
 
 
 
 
 

Edited by BloodyHalo, 30 September 2015 - 03:24 PM.

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#2 ARKILIUS

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 07:22 AM

+1 . once again simple truth posted. But shall this post generate some interest you will see many to disagree , again , i suppose , about commie Opness because you do many kills bleblehbleh etc  :heh:


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#3 NorrinRadd

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 07:35 AM

+1 . once again simple truth posted. But shall this post generate some interest you will see many to disagree , again , i suppose , about commie Opness because you do many kills bleblehbleh etc :heh:

The pinned post has more people posting and replying.
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#4 ARKILIUS

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 08:18 AM

yeah i saw that just after , too bad :p_laugh:


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#5 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 10:06 PM

OK, my reply here as well.

 

All your points are pretty valid and true. They give a very accurate account of what the Commander is TODAY. And I want to emphasise that word. Commander skills have never really changed since day one, well back in the very old days we used to have / share some with Protector's. With the exception of the "speed buff" nada has changed, for several years.

 

Now, this is a problem in its own accord. However, the even greater problem is... That everyone ELSE seems to have changed. The extreme end is the total absurdity about Zerks of course, but other classes got their fare share as well. In comparison, Commanders got nothing, certainly nothing new, and certainly no "buff" or even "update" on skills. If anything they got screwed even more (yeah, I consider the attack speed nerf a screw up, even if viewed as of minor importance).

 

As I have already posted before, Commanders used to be, ONCE, a formidable force. Not because they had the most wow skills, but those they always had could work all right, provided the other classes didn't really have "god mode" skills. Commanders never had it easy, you know that very well. Commanders had to be geared up with the very best and at great cost to be efficient or actually "dangerous". That meant that the few Commanders with the best gear were probably among the greatest ever spenders too. Well, yeah, that sucked as well.

 

That was ONCE. When having capped everything was not even possible, not even a distant thought. Unlike these days that is the norm. So, a geared Commander, even with so-and-so skills could still do fairly well or even quite well against the "clothies" and all that, since dealing out some 2k+ damage along with some well placed stuns and (successful) face strikes, on top of the adamant mind and their own superior defense and HPs, was actually, yeah, formidable.

 

You see where the whole thing went wrong? Not just with the Commanders, with the whole freaking mess of a joke game. What is the whole point when you have those "clothies" more or less standing and yawning in their safety among a sea of deadly aoes, merrily farting towards your general direction and taking you down in a few seconds? Try as you may with anything you got, you know the results. And this is obviously about "PvP”, what should I say about "PvE", it is completely meaningless.

 

I certainly don't even know where to start and what to suggest about Commanders. It would be too easy to just say, ah well, give us 50% more damage, hey, no, give us 200% more. So, what, then we become the new FOTM, the new “god mode zerk”? Would seem cool, but it isn’t. Then everybody would moan and whine, and probably rightly so, so what about the next class that is too weak and must now become uber… And the vicious circle never ends.

 

As I said before, there will never be a way out of it, UNLESS they finally sit down and work on the totally outdated system which is fundamental. You really do need to work from the bottom up, not from the middle up, certainly not touch just the tip of the iceberg. Then and only then, and maybe, we could have a remote chance for a working system and game for ALL classes. No, I don’t want all classes to be “the same”, I want each and every one to have strengths and weaknesses, so they can all have merit and be interesting to play. And this will never be even partly achieved as long as we have “stats” and “caps” that mean nothing, when you have “gear” and “trinkets” that make them irrelevant.


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