21 replies to this topic

[DarkGazer]

EDIT: Just came back from a hiatus. This info is bloody old, and I'm probably not gonna bother with updates. Use the iRO wiki's ATK article as a resource instead.

This mini-guide is just something I felt like doing for quite a while, after seeing that only bits and pieces are around regarding Renewal's damage calculations. Luckily, most of the hard work has already been handled by someone else and their findings are already recorded in the iRO wiki pages. All I've done is compile everything into this thread, as well as add extra bits and revisions. Make sure you thank the person who's responsible for the wiki page creations.

There's still some gaps that need to be filled of course. And sometimes, the results I get from these formulas are a bit off from the values I get in-game. Though the deviations shouldn't be too noticeable and should not impact your ability to make informed decisions based on the results you get. I'm trying to figure out whether I'm rounding off at the wrong steps, missing an extra modifier, or doing something completely wrong altogether.

Stuff I'm still trying to figure out/need to add in. Help regarding these areas would be greatly appreciated:
- Corrections in the formulas and examples (most important, I had to re-type everything from quick paper notes... please keep an eye out).
- Dual wielding mechanics.
- Bloody formula for getting softDEF values.
- What gets affected by ATK% bonuses from buffs (ie. Power Thrust)?

Right then... let's get started.
 

TABLE OF CONTENTS

I-OVR. OVERVIEW
----- i-a. Guide Reminders
----- i-b. General Damage Formula
II-ATK. TOTAL ATK
----- ii-a. Status ATK
----- ii-b. Weapon ATK
----- ii-c. Equipment ATK
----- ii-d. Ammunition ATK
----- ii-e. Buff ATK
----- ii-f. Mastery ATK
III-DEF. DEFENSE CALCULATIONS
----- iii-a. Normal Attacks
----- iii-b. Occult Impaction Effect
IV-STF. RANDOM STUFF
----- iv-a. Skills Unaffected by ATK Modifiers
----- iv-b. More Coming Soon!
IV-EXM. EXAMPLES


I-OVR. OVERVIEW

i-a. Guide Reminders
- When dealing with percentage values for modifiers, make sure that you use their decimal form for calculations. A 25% bonus is equivalent to 1.25 while a 25% reduction is equal to 0.75.
- If dealing with nested brackets, always calculate the values inside the inner parenthesis '()' first.
- floor simply means round down the value inside the square brackets. So a value of 3,928.725 would simply become 3,928.
- Get familiar with the concept of Elemental Multipliers, as we'll be using them a lot in this thread.
- Remember, exceptions will always exist. A number of skills have their own damage formulas which completely ignore either some or all the general rules written in this thread.

 

i-b. General Damage Formula
If doing a normal physical attack, a general overview of the damage formula would be:

Final Damage = floor[((Total ATK x Ranged % Bonus x Ranged % Reduction) x Hard DEF Multiplier - Soft DEF) x 1.4 x Crit % Bonus]

However, if doing a skill-based physical attack, another modifier gets introduced in the formula before the ranged modifiers.

Final Damage = floor[((Total ATK x Skill Damage Modifier x Skill % Bonus x Ranged % Bonus x Ranged % Reduction) x Hard DEF Multiplier - Soft DEF) x 1.4 x Crit % Bonus]

- Jump over to Section II-ATK to learn more about Total ATK calculation.

- Ranged % Bonus refers to the total amount of ranged bonus damage modifiers gained from the player's equipment (ex. Expert Archer enchants), while Ranged % Reduction refers to the total amount of ranged damage reduction modifiers of the target (ex. Horn Card). Of course, these two variables only get applied if the attack was a ranged attack.

- Skill Damage Modifier is exactly what the name implies (ex. Bowling Bash has an ATK modifier of 500%, or x5), while Skill % Bonus refers to the total amount of skill damage bonus modifiers gained from equipment (ex. Arrow Storm bonus from White Wing set).

- Jump over to Section III-DEF to learn about Hard DEF Multiplier and Soft DEF calculation.

- The last two variables in the formula only gets applied if the resulting attack was a critical hit. The damage gets increased by 40% (1.4) and is then affected by Crit % Bonus, which is the total amount of critical damage modifiers gained from equipment (ex. Fatal enchants).

- You might've noticed that we haven't taken out these two critical damage modifiers in the formula for skill-based physical attacks. This is because some skills are still capable of unleashing critical attacks (ex. Focused Arrow Strike).


II-ATK. TOTAL ATK

The start of the entire damage calculation. Total ATK is basically the total ATK value that a player gets from their stats, equipments, and cards. Total ATK is made up of multiple parts, as shown below:

Total ATK = (Status ATK x 2) + Weapon ATK + Equipment ATK + Ammunition ATK + Buff ATK + Mastery ATK

The names for the variables should be pretty straightforward, so no explanations should be needed here. Let's start going through them one by one shall we?

 

ii-a. Status ATK
First, we need to figure out what the value of Status ATK is. If using a melee weapon, we can get this via:

Status ATK (melee) = floor[((Base Level ÷ 4) + STR + (DEX ÷ 5) + (LUK ÷ 3)) x Elemental Multiplier]

However, if you're using ranged weapons we need to flip the positions of STR and DEX.

Status ATK (ranged) = floor[((Base Level ÷ 4) + DEX + (STR ÷ 5) + (LUK ÷ 3)) x Elemental Multiplier]

This is the easy part of the calculation. Best part is, you can skip this step entirely as the game already does it for you and shows the result in the Character Status window (it does not take the Elemental Multiplier into account however). It's the left-hand value in the ATK section.



Here's a couple of pointers though:

- Status ATK is considered as neutral element by default, except when the player is under the influence of Mild Wind. This means that unless you're on Mild Wind, your Status ATK gets reduced when facing Ghost-property targets.

- Status ATK does not take into account a player's damage modifiers (bonuses or reductions) of any kind (size, race, element, flat ATK bonuses or ATK% bonuses). Hence why the mentioned variables aren't found in the formula.

 

ii-b. Weapon ATK
Next up is Weapon ATK, which is where a lot of the work will happen. To get the value of Weapon ATK, we'll need to use this formula:

Weapon ATK = floor[((((Base ATK + Variance + STR/DEX Bonus + Refine Bonus) x Size Penalty Multiplier) x ATK % Bonus x Size % Bonus x Race % Bonus x Element % Bonus***) x Size % Reduction x Race % Reduction x Element % Reduction***) x EDP Mod]

Despite the hellishly long formula here, the Elemental Multiplier is nowhere to be seen. That's because it's applied separately to three different variables: Base ATK, STR Bonus and Refine Bonus.

Base ATK = Right-Hand Weapon ATK x Elemental Multiplier
Variance = ± 0.05 x Weapon Level x Base ATK
STR Bonus (melee) = (Base ATK x STR ÷ 200) x Elemental Multiplier*
DEX Bonus (ranged) = (Base ATK x DEX ÷ 200) x Elemental Multiplier*
Refine Bonus = Refine ATK** x Elemental Multiplier

First off, yes I know. This particular step is pretty long and I really wish I could write it in a much more shorter format but this is just how it goes.

- * It's important to note that STR/DEX Bonus is forced neutral. This means that despite being able to benefit from elemental multipliers via Base ATK, the final value of STR/DEX Bonus will always be reduced when facing against Ghost-property targets or targets with neutral resistance gears.

- ** To get the value of Refine ATK, simply refer to this page. For a quick example on how to apply what's written in there, a level 4 +9 weapon would give an extra 63 ATK and 1~70 damage which would boil down to 64~133 bonus damage (63+1~63+70).

- *** Remember that Element % Bonus and Element % Reduction is not equal to Elemental Multiplier! You get the value of Elemental Multiplier by comparing the attacker's weapon element and target's element, while the value of Element % Bonus and Element % Reduction are obtained from player equipment and cards.

- Size Penalty Multiplier refers to the modifier value used according to the player's weapon type and target's size. Feel free to use this page as a reference.

- ATK % Bonus refers to the sum of ATK% modifiers gained from the player's equipment (ex. ATK+2% from Evil Marching Hat). It's important to note that Abysmal Knight Cards (+25% damage against Boss targets) belong to this category as well. [Size % Bonus, Race % Bonus and Element % Bonus all refer to the sum of size/racial/elemental bonus modifiers gained from the player's equipment (ex. Skel Worker Card, Hydra Card, Kaho Card).

- Following the same logic... Size % Reduction, Race % Reduction and Element % Reduction all refer to the sum of size/racial/elemental reduction modifers gained from the player's equipment (ex. Ogretooth Card, Thara Frog Card, Draco Card).

- EDP Modifier is only applied if the player is under the effects of Enchant Deadly Poison. For Weapon ATK, its value would be 5.

 

ii-c. Equipment ATK
After Weapon ATK comes Equipment ATK. Luckily, it's a lot more simpler to obtain compared to Weapon ATK. Simply do the steps below to get the answer.

Equipment ATK = floor[((((Base Equip ATK x Elemental Multiplier) x ATK % Bonus x Size % Bonus x Race % Bonus x Element % Bonus) x Size % Reduction x Race % Reduction x Element % Reduction) x EDP Modifier]

- Base Equip ATK refers to the sum of all flat ATK modifiers from equipment (not including weapons) and cards socketed to any equipment piece (ex. ATK+5 from Pirate Dagger, Andre Card). This also includes ATK from equipped arrows or bullets. However, cannonballs are separate from Equipment ATK. See Section ii-d. Ammunition ATK for more info.

- Go back to Section ii-b. Weapon ATK if you need a review on the various modifiers involved with ATK.

- EDP Modifier is only applied if the player is under the effects of Enchant Deadly Poison. For Equipment ATK, its value would be 4.

 

ii-d. Ammunition ATK
Ammunition ATK refers to the ATK value from specific projectiles currently equipped. Currently, it is only applied when doing long-ranged attacks that require cannonballs (ex. Iron, Holy, Soul). Ammunition ATK does not take into account a player's damage modifiers (bonuses or reductions) of any kind (size, race, element, flat ATK bonuses or ATK% bonuses).

 

ii-e. Buff ATK
Buff ATK refers to any flat ATK bonuses you get from buffs (ex. Geneticist Cart Boost). Buff ATK does not take into account a player's damage modifiers (bonuses or reductions) of any kind (size, race, element, flat ATK bonuses or ATK% bonuses).

I'm currently not sure where ATK% bonuses gained from buffs come into play within the formula for Total ATK.

 

ii-f. Mastery ATK
And finally, Mastery ATK refers to the ATK bonuses gained from various mastery and bane skills (ex. Two-Handed Sword Mastery). Mastery ATK does not take into account a player's damage modifiers (bonuses or reductions) of any kind (size, race, element, flat ATK bonuses or ATK% bonuses).
 

 

III-DEF. DEFENSE CALCULATIONS

Defense calculations involve the application of the target's Hard DEF and Soft DEF to the character's current damage value. Hard DEF refers to DEF points gained from equipment and refine bonuses (ex. armors, shields, footgears) while Soft DEF refers to DEF points gained via VIT.

iii-a. Normal Attacks
If doing a normal attack, apply Hard DEF Multiplier and Soft DEF to the current damage value (refer to section i-b. General Damage Formula for a review if required). The value of Hard DEF Multiplier can be obtained via:

Hard DEF Multiplier = (4000 + (Hard DEF x Defense Pierce %)) ÷ (4000 + (Hard DEF x Defense Pierce % x 10))

- Defense Pierce % refers to the sum of defense ignoring modifiers gained through skills and equipment (ex. Expiatio, various Glorious weapons against demi-humans). It might be a good idea to avoid rounding down the final answer.

- Unfortunately, I have no bloody idea how to calculate Soft DEF. On the bright side, you can see your current Soft DEF amount in the Character Stats (same with Hard DEF). The left hand value is Soft DEF, while the right hand value is Hard DEF.

 

iii-b. Occult Impaction Effect
However, if the player is performing Occult Impaction or currently has an Ice Pick/Memory of Thanatos Card equipped, the target's Hard DEF and Soft DEF will get ignored during the damage calculation. The player will also incur a bonus to Equipment ATK depending on the amount of Hard DEF the target has. This bonus is calculated via:

Bonus Equipment ATK = Target Hard DEF ÷ 2

*Credits to Ashuckel for this formula

This bonus is then added to the player's current Equipment ATK before being affected by the various ATK modifiers available.
 

 

IV-STF. RANDOM STUFF

This is where I put some interesting tidbits of info that don't really belong to the other sections of the topic.

iv-a. Skills Unaffected by ATK Modifiers
To do a quick review, ATK modifiers are only applied to Weapon ATK and Equipment ATK. Using this piece of info, we can then say that ATK modifiers (ATK+%, size, race, element) only affect skills that use ATK in their damage formula somehow (there are exceptions to this rule, Dragon Breath for example). This list has been created to help determine what skills are affected, though I still need to go through some more sources to make it complete and accurate.

Skills that are not affected by reduction modifiers (currently incomplete, please message me for corrections):

Crusader/Paladin
Shield Reflect (reflect damage is unaffected by modifiers)
Gloria Domini

Rune Knight
Death Bound (reflect damage is unaffected by modifiers)

Royal Guard
Reflect Damage (reflect damage is unaffected by modifiers)

Sura
Fallen Empire (bonus damage is unaffected by modifiers)
Tiger Cannon (bonus damage is unaffected by modifiers)
Gates of Hell (bonus damage is unaffected by modifiers)
Crescent Elbow (bonus damage is unaffected by modifiers)

Mechanic
Suicidial Destruction

Geneticist
Hell Plant

 

iv-b. More Coming Soon!
 

 

 

V-EXM. EXAMPLES

Geneticist Example
You're a 175 Geneticist with 102 STR, 142 DEX and 45 LUK for stats. What would your Cart Cannon damage be against a medium Boss target with no hard DEF and only 5 soft DEF with the following gears?



First order of business is to determine the various modifier bonuses you have with the gears. Here they are (not including MATK and stat bonuses, since the game already calculates statusATK for us):

+9 Evil Marching Hat [Dark Pinguicula] = ATK+10, ATK+7%, ranged+5%
Black Devil Mask [Dark Pinguicula] = ATK+10
Jinn Marin Balloon = ATK+5
Orleans' Gown [Porcellio] = ATK+25
+9 Red Twin Edge [x3 Abysmal Knight] = ATK+75% (remember, Abysmal Knight is an ATK% modifier)
+9 FAW [Menblatt, EA9] = ATK+4 (typo in FAW description, it should be a flat ATK bonus), ranged+36%
+9 Temporal Dex Boots [EA4/RM] = ranged+13%
RWC Rings [G. Scaraba, 1x FS6 & 1x FS4] = ATK+82, ATK+2%
+7 Shadow Weapon = ATK+7

So our total boils down to:
sumEquipATK = 143
ATK% = 84%
ranged% = 54%

Time to get the value of totalATK:

totalATK = statusATK x 2 + weaponATK + equipATK + ammoATK* + buffATK + masteryATK

statusATK = 189 -> already written down in Stats window

baseWATK
= floor[(baseATK + variance + STRBonus + refineBonus) x sizePenalty]
baseATK = 160 x 1 = 160
variance = ± 0.05 x 4 x 160 = 32
STRBonus = (160 x 102 ÷ 200) x 1 = 81.6
refineBonus = 64~133 x 1 = 64~133 -> level 4, +9 weapon = 63 ATK and 1~70 extra damage
= (160 ± 32 + 81.6 + 64~133) x 1
baseWATK = 273~406

moddedWATK/weaponATK
= floor(baseWATK x sizeBonus x raceBonus x elementBonus x ATKBonus)
= floor(273~406 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1.84)
weaponATK = 502~747

moddedEATK/equipATK
= floor[(sumATK x elementalMod) x sizeBonus x raceBonus x elementBonus x ATKBonus]
= floor[(143 x 1) 1 x 1 x 1 x 1.84]
equipATK = 263

totalATK
= statusATK x 2 + weaponATK + equipATK + ammoATK + buffATK + masteryATK
= 189 x 2 + 502~747 + 263 + 250 + 0 + 0
totalATK = 1393~1638

Just to be safe, let's check our current melee damage.

totalDamage
= floor(totalATK x hardDEFRed - softDEFRed)
= floor(1143~1388 x 1 - 5) -> 1143~1388 would be your totalATK without ammoATK
Your physical attacks would do 1138~1383 damage.

If the hit was a critical proc...
= floor[(totalATK x hardDEFRed - softDEFRed) x critMod x critBonus]
= floor[(1143~1388 x 1 - 5) x 1.4] x 1] -> there's now variance in crit damage because the weapon has been refined over safety limit
Your critical hits would do 1593~1936.



We seem to be on the right track. Now then, to get our Cart Cannon damage. Since we want to know our skill damage, we need to use this formula:

totalDamage = floor{ {[(skillDamage x rangedBonus x skillBonus) x rangedRed] x hardDEFRed - softDEFRed)} x critMod x critBonus }

To get skillDamage, simpy use the skill's damage formula and apply totalATK. The damage formula for Cart Cannon would be:
= floor[{( Cart Remodeling Skill Level * 50 ) * ( INT / 40 )} + ( Cart Cannon Skill Level * 60 )] % x ATK
= floor[856.25 + 300] % x ATK
= 1156% x ATK
= 11.56 x 1393~1638
skillDamage = 16103~18935

The only thing left to do now is to apply the ranged bonus modifiers.
totalDamage
= floor[(16103~18935 x 1.54) x 1 - 5] -> getting rid of unnecessary modifiers
Your Cart Cannon damage should be 24793~29154.

Edited by DarkGazer, 16 January 2018 - 11:44 PM.

[DarkGazer]

Reserved.

 

brb, need sleep.

[fuyukikun]

im still confused about partial defense piercing like that AB buff that gives 25% defense piercing. is it we do directly 25% more dmg to a target? or a target defense (hard def only? soft def? combined?) reduced by 25%? so if we attack a target that has 200 harddef, the harddef will become 150?

[Ashuckel]

Lol i was thinking on doing the same guide! Ninja'ed hard xD

im still confused about partial defense piercing like that AB buff that gives 25% defense piercing. is it we do directly 25% more dmg to a target? or a target defense (hard def only? soft def? combined?) reduced by 25%? so if we attack a target that has 200 harddef, the harddef will become 150?

The second statement is the correct one. Partial defense piercing acts like reducing your target def by that amount before doing the damage calculation. With 200 defense, 25% piercing makes it so that your damage is calculated vs 150 def. Im not sure if it works on soft def tho, never tested.

@DG Dont forget to add there that crit dmg% gears affect multiplicative with the base 1.4x crit damage, meaning, 20% crit damage doesnt make your crit do 1,6x your normal hit but 1,68x.

Edited by Ashuckel, 03 October 2015 - 04:25 AM.

[DarkGazer]

im still confused about partial defense piercing like that AB buff that gives 25% defense piercing. is it we do directly 25% more dmg to a target? or a target defense (hard def only? soft def? combined?) reduced by 25%? so if we attack a target that has 200 harddef, the harddef will become 150?

Ash Ketchup pretty much has you covered there. I didn't really delve into defense pierce effects too much, but from the looks of it softDEF is unaffected.
 

 

Lol i was thinking on doing the same guide! Ninja'ed hard xD

@DG Dont forget to add there that crit dmg% gears affect multiplicative with the base 1.4x crit damage, meaning, 20% crit damage doesnt make your crit do 1,6x your normal hit but 1,68x.

Well, I'm willing to bet that you had a hand in editing some of the stat pages in the wiki so credits defo go to you if that's the case. :v

Should be established in the formula above: damage after DEF x critMod x critBonus

 

I'll add in the extra stuff tomorrow when I have free time, need some rest.

Edited by DarkGazer, 03 October 2015 - 04:33 AM.

[fuyukikun]

thank you. figuring out this game mechanism is always fun

[Ashuckel]

Yeah, just that some ppl understand better reading phrases than checking formulas.

[mildcontempt]

You state that ammo atk is not affected by ele/bonus/reduction mods. In irowiki it's listed as simply 'equip atk' when doing ranged attacks that require ammo. 

 

Is it fair to assume that you've tested this and wiki is incorrect? 

[DarkGazer]

You state that ammo atk is not affected by ele/bonus/reduction mods. In irowiki it's listed as simply 'equip atk' when doing ranged attacks that require ammo. 

 

Is it fair to assume that you've tested this and wiki is incorrect? 

 

Turns out I was half-wrong with this statement, as I only used a Geneticist to test it out in the past.  Arrow ATK does add to equip ATK but cannonball ATK (for Cart Cannon) doesn't, and it's not affected by ATK modifiers. I'm not sure if this is exclusive to Cart Cannon alone or if Mechanic's Arm Cannon share the same trait. Sadly, I don't have a Mechanic to test it out myself. Thanks for reminding me about this.

 

Here's a quick calculation with cannonballs if interested. Tested on Izlude eggs:

Spoiler

 

Status ATK = 174

Weapon ATK = 0 (to avoid drama with variance)

Equip ATK = 50 x 1.05 (ATK+5% from MoH) = 52

 

(174 x 2) + 0 + 52 + 250 (cannonball ATK, not affected by ATK+5%) = 650

 

With my stats, my Cart Cannon damage modifier becomes 1,118%.

 

(650 x 11.18) - 5 (Izlude eggs have 5 Soft DEF) = 7,262

I'm currently finishing off a revised version of this guide with some corrections, so tune in to that.

Edited by DarkGazer, 08 November 2015 - 05:34 AM.

[mildcontempt]

I have a mechanic with arm cannon, I can test out some stuff if you let me know what you need. Feel free to PM me instructions. 

[DarkGazer]

I have a mechanic with arm cannon, I can test out some stuff if you let me know what you need. Feel free to PM me instructions. 

 

If you got the gears I used on that screenie, probably use that to make things easier. Be unarmed to get rid of pesky variance, have something that gives a flat ATK bonus (Shackles+BSB is really handy since ATK+50 is easy to work with) and something that gives a ATK+% bonus (preferably 5%+ so it's easier to notice changes in numbers). Use level 2 Arm Cannon with Iron Cannonballs on Izlude eggs.

 

When you do the calculations, have two seperate cases. Case 1 is where you combine cannonball ATK and equip ATK together and Case 2 is where you treat them all seperately without cannonball ATK getting affected by the ATK+% bonus from gears.

Edited by DarkGazer, 08 November 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[mildcontempt]

Alrighty, I'll test and post some screens later tonight when I am free. 

[DarkGazer]

Guide has been updated. Hopefully, it's a bit easier to read.

[Sigma1]

Formula for SoftDef
Player : Floor(Vit/2 + Agi/5 + Base level/2)
Monster: Floor((Vit+Base level)/2)

And str/dex bonus isn't forced neutral. It take all benefit from weapon element like other weapon atk.

Edited by Sigma1, 21 December 2015 - 05:07 PM.

[mildcontempt]

Alrighty, I'll test and post some screens later tonight when I am free. 

 

Well, I'm a jackass. I posted this before I took a break and completely forgot about this. Better late than never I guess?

 

The short answer is, no, general, size, and elemental % boosts do not work on the equip attack from iron cannoballs for Arm Cannon. The explanation is long and in spoiler below.

 

Spoiler

 

My status window shows the status atk as being 205, which when doubled would be 410 and plus the 75 + 20 attack from mado and weaponry research respectively should be a total of 505. Which, as Sigma posted above, means I should do 500 damage because the eggs have a base level of 10, meaning they have 5 soft defense. 

 

Anyway, I currently do a clean 500 damage when completely naked in a mado mech, so hey, let's make it do what it do. 

 

So level 2 does 1,000% damage to medium enemies, and at base 175 the skill mod should be 175/120 = 1.4583, meaning 1,000% x 1.4583 = 1,458.3% or 14.583x damage. We add 250 attack from the cannoball for a total of 755, and multiply that by 14.583 and we ought to get 11,010 damage. However, in practice, what we do get is 10,711. I'm at an honest loss as to why this is, but ok. Whatever. The point is to figure out if % mods work on cannon balls. Let's see what happens when we take our naked self, currently doing 10,711, and add in an RWC ring that grants STR + 1, atk + 3%, atk + 2%, and the natural atk + 1%. 

 

We should see our damage go up to 502 when bare fisting. This checks out. 

 

We should see the arm cannon damage go up by:

 

If % does not work on cannoballs, then it should go up by 2 x 14.583 or by 29 or so damage. 

 

If % does work on cannoballs, then it should go up by 2 x 14.583 + 1.06 x 250 = 294 or so damage; for a total of 11,005 damage. 

 

Our damage goes up by 29, meaning that the 6% atk did NOT benefit the iron cannon ball. 

 

Now, let's test that with shackles + BSB for the bonus 50 attack. 

 

With that, our barefist punches go to 550 attack. Our arm cannon level 2 with iron cannon balls does 11,440 damage (50 x 14.583 = 729, which is the difference between no BSB combo and yes BSB combo.)

 

Now we put the RWC ring on, and we should see (if the % works with the 50 attack) an increase of 30 + 42 = 72 damage. 

 

We end up doing 11,513 damage which is exactly what we would expect to see. 

 

So, the attack formula betrays me in my initial values, but using the base of 500 barefist attack and we are fine.

 

As a double check, I also used a quadruple boned main gauche (+9) and a quadruple flammable main gauche (+9) on the eggs, and both did 12,460 - 12,600ish damage. Not super precise, but considering it should have been 80% and 60% increases there, it's pretty obvious those did not work with the 250 attack cannonball. With the flammable, we should have seen over 4,500 damage difference (without even accounting for the extra attack from the weapon itself.) The attack from the weapon should be (90-92 more weapon attack, and +20 equip attack when dealing with the quadruple boned; which when plugged in accounts for an extra 900 to 1100 damage, which is what we see int he actual output +/- some variance. 

 

 

It is currently 12:37am here, so I am a bit tired, but I will double check my numbers tomorrow.

 

edit: when working backwards from 10,711 damage and checking what attack I should have, it comes out to 734.47, 20 less than what I do have. I guess its possible that weaponry research isn't pure mastery attack, but is just a flat +20 at the end of the damage dealt? Or the 20ihs attack difference is coincidental. I'm not sure tbh. If anyone spots something I may be doing wrong, please let me know. It's definitely something with the skill itself, as the bare-fist punch damage is fine, as it is when I include additional STR, ATK or ATK% boosts -- but once I try to calc arm cannon, it goes off by a small margin. It's inconsequential to the conclusion that cannon balls do not benefit from relative % boosts, but a bit of an annoyance to me. 

Edited by mildcontempt, 07 September 2016 - 05:58 AM.

[powerhausman]

regarding cart cannon (gene)

 

im pretty sure cannon ball elements affect dmg

 

i was doing sara and fenrir, was using thana hammer and iron balls enchanted with aspersio

 

run out of aspers scrolls

 

then i switched to holy balls then boom i was doing more dmg

 

this is for gene cannon only.

[Usurper]

Thanks to everyone involved in putting up this guide.

While I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this useful information, I'm still confused about Abysmal Knight card and for example a Hydra card, if I unerstood it correctly, both belongs in the "Atk % "modifier category together with skel worker card. If this is true then why do I see some posts stating that 2x hydra is bad if you have a respectable amount of totalAtk?(not inlcuding Atk% modifiers).

TL;DR

Why if up against "Boss" Race montsers, it is ok to stack up on Abysmal knight cards while against demi-humans its better if you mix up race x size modifiers? It it because of the "additive vs. Multuplcative" calculation?

Edited by Usurper, 22 July 2017 - 02:00 PM.

[mildcontempt]

Thanks to everyone involved in putting up this guide.

While I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this useful information, I'm still confused about Abysmal Knight card and for example a Hydra card, if I unerstood it correctly, both belongs in the "Atk % "modifier category together with skel worker card. If this is true then why do I see some posts stating that 2x hydra is bad if you have a respectable amount of totalAtk?(not inlcuding Atk% modifiers).

TL;DR

Why if up against "Boss" Race montsers, it is ok to stack up on Abysmal knight cards while against demi-humans its better if you mix up race x size modifiers? It it because of the "additive vs. Multuplcative" calculation?

 

Even against bosses, it is advisable to mix up different damage mods -- it's just that for most people you probably don't want to have multiple high refine weapons for various boss types -- for example, having multiple +14 Hurricane Fury + EA 5/5 enchants is very pricey, especially if you plan to card them with a hydra or pom spider card. If you had a weapon with two slots, you perhaps don't want to mix up an expensive AK card with a cheap race or element card as well. 

 

That's for most classes and the weapons they use, though -- those who are able to use multiple cards, like a DD GX, is still advised to avoid stacking many AK cards (IMO 3 is probably enough) as you lose out on a lot of damage potential and you end up spending unnecessary money. 

 

EDIT: If for example you were to get some cheapo weapons to use against bosses (like a Catapult) and yolo refine it to +10, it would be wiser to use a race x element card than 2 AKs as you can make up the general atk% loss from other gear -- like an Abusive Robe's enchants, RWC rings, etc. 

Edited by mildcontempt, 30 July 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[YongkySH]

Just want to clarify something, is variance affected by STR value? I was referring to this thread here https://forums.warpp...pure-or-attack/

 

since there's 2 different calculation, would like for your help guys

 

Thanks!

 

 

sry for necroing

Edited by YongkySH, 15 January 2018 - 06:21 AM.

[DarkGazer]

There are two types of variances: the weapon's "base" variance and its refinement variance. The "base" variance is only affected by the weapon's level and the weapon's damage before refinement. It's even written in one of the formulas above. Refinement variance pops up when a weapon becomes overupgraded (+8 for Lv1 weapons, +7 for Lv2 weapons, and so on). Nothing but the weapon's refinement level can affect its refinement variance and it's constant between each weapon level (ie. all Lv4 weapons at +12 will have the same refinement variance). Refer to this page for refinement variance numbers. Also, because Enforcer Shoes is a popular item at the moment I should probably make this clear; Power Maximize does not affect refinement variance, only the "base" variance. That's why you still see variance with the buff when you're using overupgraded weapons.

 

Also, just a heads up for people still reading this post. This thread is outdated, I've just recently come back from hiatus, and I'm not planning to do an update. To put it bluntly, I can't really give a -__-  about this game at the moment. On the bright side, the iRO wiki's ATK article seems to have been updated so you'll probably have a better time using that page as a resource. Also, I probably won't bother responding to PMs asking for help about damage calculation. Best to divert those to someone like Nirvanna or Ashuckel instead. sorry, you two ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by DarkGazer, 16 January 2018 - 11:42 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

Nah, ash can take it :U

Edited by Nirvanna21, 16 January 2018 - 11:49 PM.

[YongkySH]

Many thanks!