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Savage Nerf


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#1 rakionist

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 09:09 PM

I feel Savage need a nerf again, but NOT that final decision skill. Its Headspin skill needs to be nerfed. Currently, when headspin is active, enemies that avoid it and attack cannot stun it or break it in that state. Combined together with windmill to wait for that short cooldown, savages are pretty impossible to stun. Not to mention that passive skill of theirs Crazy spirit or somethin allows them to break free from locks. This makes savage very difficult to beat altogether as all the savage needs is build a very good defense which can be done by enchanting and soulcrafting and headspin enemies all the way.

 

My nerf suggestion would be to nerf headspin at least to make them stunnable or stoppable when executing it. For those who say this nerf will be too much because it is easy to kill savage after the nerf, this is where rocket punch and other stun skills are there to keep that headspin started. Lets also not forget headspin has a pretty wide range, wide enough to hit melee opponents before the opponent strikes it. I wouldn't demand a nerf of windmill as it can be get around with some skill, but headspin, definitely. 


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#2 Homurasan

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 12:38 AM

Freeze >> Super-armor, and stuns might be, too, as far as I know.


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#3 PamaypaY

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 07:52 PM

Savages, by no means, need a nerf. Maybe you have a vendetta against a specific savage that you can't beat in PvP, but the amount of 'significant' savages in game is so low, it should be an obvious reflection of how OP they are; or in this case, how non-OP. I know popularity doesn't exactly mean OP, but with the trend of THIS game, it does. I think you are overwhelmed with losing that you are not understanding how your enemy (the savage) fights and how their skills work. Yes, Headspin and Windmill do have supersarmor, but it's not "impossible to stun." Archers, Warriors, Magicians (not gonna mention dragonkins since they are OP and it should be obvious that they can kill a savage) all have a counter for these 2 super-armored skills. For the skills that I'm referring to, I'll leave it to you to find out (hint: it's not some special skill in your skill tree). Of course there are other skills that counter them, but the point is that its easily countered if you know how.

 

Please refrain from asking for nerfs on classes that don't need it just because you don't know how they work. This would only widen the gap between mid-tier and god-tier classes and would just result in more arguing and raging later on. So if any CM's read this, please be careful of appeasing every complaint that you get unless it's an obvious problem, of course like duping and hacks.


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#4 Kristof3195

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 11:11 PM

So tell me what counter has got a Warior against savages please since u saied they got all skils to counter it. Well people saied the chain combo stun to stall them thats for sure if you can pull it off which is not gonna happen since all savages roll movement speed and until u try your z combo they will catch you headspinning . I dont mind how those 2 skills work they r actualy fine ( windmill and headspin ) The only think I hate it has twice the range as it is shown so its almost impossible to stun em for a warior just keep runing until both of them are on cd. If hammer crush would have had superarmor or shield bash 100% stun rate then ye there would be a chance.


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#5 Precrush

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 12:06 AM

Savage's don't need any nerf, in fact I believe there should be no balance changes done before these larger changes get done regarding elements and other stats, since those are bound to change the game. Certain skills do hit on a larger area then they visually show which is always bad, maybe that can be also changed one day. The thing is though, even if you don't have a skill to counter headspin 100% of the time, why cant you just wait until it's over? Shield bash has like 70% stun rate, I'd say that's pretty dang good chances to counter that skill.


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#6 Agitodesu

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 06:17 AM

I don't want to butt in too much on this, but I'll say a couple things from the Paladins perspective a little bit in more detail. Shield bash is a risky move and hard to pull off in most situations, if you do manage to land a lucky punch or accurately calculate the trajectory of this dancer, the benefit is not as good as the risk taken to stop a savage. When you land the shield bash 2 things can happen. Either you miss the the stun and kiss your gluteus maximus goodbye or they get stunned while getting super armor and your broom/crosscut/bear or anything won't do much so you get a few hits before the process of catching begins again. To be honest, the best strategy you can use to attack and defend yourself from a savage is to spam that chain combo. Any hits with the x/z buttons will cancel that headspin/windmill. Although if you can't stop it, prepare to be punished. A little tip, if you shield bash a headspin, use xxzz combo to cancel the superarmor and re-stun the savage. If they manage to escape with crazy mind passive your beep out of luck. And try not to air combo a savage, it won't work. Then again ground combos roughly work so your screwed either way. Don't fight savages for fun. In bsq your Mage friends will make them sad with magnet :)
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#7 StormHaven

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 06:31 AM

So tell me what counter has got a Warior against savages please since u saied they got all skils to counter it. Well people saied the chain combo stun to stall them thats for sure if you can pull it off which is not gonna happen since all savages roll movement speed and until u try your z combo they will catch you headspinning . I dont mind how those 2 skills work they r actualy fine ( windmill and headspin ) The only think I hate it has twice the range as it is shown so its almost impossible to stun em for a warior just keep runing until both of them are on cd. If hammer crush would have had superarmor or shield bash 100% stun rate then ye there would be a chance.

 

a warrior's best counter to a savage is to be patient and wait for an opening, cause savage's entire skill set is pretty much an anti melee one... Also it's really rng dependent fight for warriors thanks to crazy soul.

 

 

edit: other than headspin should maybe have a higher cd (3 seconds more at most), savages really don't need to be touched at all.


Edited by StormHaven, 15 November 2015 - 06:33 AM.

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#8 Coolsam

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 11:35 AM

a warrior's best counter to a savage is to be patient and wait for an opening, cause savage's entire skill set is pretty much an anti melee one... Also it's really rng dependent fight for warriors thanks to crazy soul.

 

 

edit: other than headspin should maybe have a higher cd (3 seconds more at most), savages really don't need to be touched at all.

 

Headspin really is the only Savage skill needed to be nerfed and really it just needs a higher cooldown.

 

As for Warriors vs. Savage, RNG is a big factor due to Crazy Soul. However you can outright cancel super-armor with chain combos to allow at least a decent damage combo on them. I'd say Overlord has a better time vs. Savage than Dragoon does. But really only if they build a bit of attack speed and have good pc spec's.


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#9 Agitodesu

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 11:45 AM

I just like to do something really really mean when the savage gets near a wall when I play overlord. It's like they want me to do something. ;)
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#10 Zackx23

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:49 AM

The only nerf a savage needs is a bit more cooldown for headspin as already mentioned. Maybe then we will see more skills used by "mainstream" savages instead of dancing with the stars 24/7


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#11 Kristof3195

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 01:11 PM

But as mentioned above that 24/7 dancing is not only headspin do not forget there is still windmill which is as terrible as headspin 


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#12 StormHaven

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 01:51 PM

But as mentioned above that 24/7 dancing is not only headspin do not forget there is still windmill which is as terrible as headspin 

 

windmill is no where near as terrible as headspin...


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#13 Homurasan

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 02:40 PM

... since you can still use a quickly-cast spell / stun to get out of it, or even turn the tides in your favor. Headspin is a bit more tricky since it launches you into the air.


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#14 StormHaven

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 03:10 PM

... since you can still use a quickly-cast spell / stun to get out of it, or even turn the tides in your favor. Headspin is a bit more tricky since it launches you into the air.

 

headspin always has a much wider range...


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#15 ScrambledCraig

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 03:59 PM

Savages don't need a Nerf, if you have a high enough movement speed you can escape from the lock. Headspin lasts like 3 seconds and as always a head spin is followed by a upper screw driver which can be avoided with movement speed.


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#16 Homurasan

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:36 PM

headspin always has a much wider range...

 

Ah, I'm always seeing this from the point of view of my Sorcerer, which can't be bothered by a ground-targeting skill if doesn't have some kind of hard knockdown / stun etc. to it.


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#17 Kristof3195

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 05:40 AM

Savages don't need a Nerf, if you have a high enough movement speed you can escape from the lock. Headspin lasts like 3 seconds and as always a head spin is followed by a upper screw driver which can be avoided with movement speed.

Yeah escaping isnt the problem Im more likely talking about the small gap that allows you actualy to engage the savage for some classes


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#18 rakionist

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 12:36 AM

From what you guys said, everyone is saying things that are easier said than done. For example, "if you have high enough movespeed", how many people pump in lots of movespeed, how many classes have high movespeed to get over this problem? Not just that particular comment, people everytime say "if you have.." Or "if you do (so and so)", the question to ask is can EVERY CLASS pull this off? Dont expect everyone to go into some specific build just to check certain stuff. I acknowledge these issues are somewhat a balance that "if you have so and so stat, you can counter so and so move or ability, but you will face another issue fighting a diff class". But the current issue is there is 90% no way of getting past the "another issue". The 10% is only really skilled players able to overcome it. But how many people in the community can make their way into this 10%? You cant expect everyone to to be as pro as you are
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#19 eyes2kill

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:08 AM

savage dont need nerf at all, first of all they already had butcher the harley. If anything they should add final decision to hit enemies when they are down, one off the things they took out that never made any sense to me. Paladin can counter the Harley with chain combo on and they will not be lifted as long the chain continues, ie. chain combo on when close and continue to press xxxxxx, also cross cut and spear job lock.


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#20 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:22 AM

savage dont need nerf at all, first of all they already had butcher the harley. If anything they should add final decision to hit enemies when they are down, one off the things they took out that never made any sense to me. Paladin can counter the Harley with chain combo on and they will not be lifted as long the chain continues, ie. chain combo on when close and continue to press xxxxxx, also cross cut and spear job lock.


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#21 Turpi

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 04:13 PM

Savages need for sure a Headspin nerf. +1 for putting a higher cooldown at it and maybe decrease the range by a bit. From my point of few you got alot stunning skill, a very nice escaping skill with your moonwalk, and since FD got re-nerfed 1 more catching and good dealing dmg skill. And crazy soul ofc, which is such an op passive skill.

 

Normally I wouldnt say nerf that skill, if player wouldnt abuse it so hard. I dont use Headspin as a catching skill, thats just too niblike. But I use it as a counter skill and in a combo.

 

Also Headspin seems to be pretty bugged. Even when the Savage got frozen while spinning you will still get hit by it for such a long duration that your stun/freeze is almost gone already.


Edited by Turpi, 19 April 2016 - 04:15 PM.

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#22 Vossel

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 06:35 AM

Savages need for sure a Headspin nerf. +1 for putting a higher cooldown at it and maybe decrease the range by a bit. From my point of few you got alot stunning skill, a very nice escaping skill with your moonwalk, and since FD got re-nerfed 1 more catching and good dealing dmg skill. And crazy soul ofc, which is such an op passive skill.

 

Normally I wouldnt say nerf that skill, if player wouldnt abuse it so hard. I dont use Headspin as a catching skill, thats just too niblike. But I use it as a counter skill and in a combo.

 

Also Headspin seems to be pretty bugged. Even when the Savage got frozen while spinning you will still get hit by it for such a long duration that your stun/freeze is almost gone already.

the ongoing headspin only count for freeze.

you have to decide if you want a smaller range or a longer cooldown but both would be too much.

if you know how long moonwalk goes you can just wait at the end with a stun or what so ever.

FD got fixed and that is good, or do you want to play that class if the FD would only hit once??


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#23 Turpi

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 08:14 AM

Well lower CD for sure, "additionally" "maybe" also a range nerf coz lets be honest. A skill which allows you to move with superarmor + monster range and low CD.

 

And well, i played that class with the FD nerf. Was funny to attack the enemy with it while he was using a superarmor skill. Ofc FD was a missing catching skill and that + the low stun rates of the other skills might me a reason why people spammed Headspin that crazy.

 

But as i said, now they got Headspin, FD and Crazy Soul and Moonwalk, which are really op skills. I dont know if you can still use that escape-box skill in 1o1 but if thats the case you can bind Moonwalk+ Escape-Box and escape as good as every lock. 


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#24 Bustincaps

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:15 AM

Savage definitely doesn't need a nerf; Headspin is really their only strong and non-risky catch skill apart from Claw Fishing, which isn't commonly used. Rocket Punch is a very slow moving projectile and is easy to avoid; Provoke has about a 33% success rate and requires you to be very close to the enemy, and Final Decision isn't as reliable these days due to the abundance of superarmor in PvP. When you look at the class as a whole, it's a good defensive class and has easy starter gameplay for new players looking to get into BSQ and such, but lacks aggressiveness and DPS. You need to chain a pretty long combo before you're really doing a significant amount of damage, and these combos are hard to pull off in any type of group PvP, considering how long they take to perform.


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#25 Turpi

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 11:36 AM

 When you look at the class as a whole, it's a good defensive class and has easy starter gameplay for new players looking to get into BSQ and such, but lacks aggressiveness and DPS. 

 

Thats totally true. But didnt they buffed crazy soul in exchange for FD nerf? They should nerf crazy soul now back if i remember right.


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