59 replies to this topic

[Hellowarz]

There has yet to be a single claim for enforcement that stood up to scrutiny. So I think it is time to bring one up.

In the game of wow they had made it harder and harder to be a bot. Being a bot became less rewarding beyond just leveling up. It was so hard to be a bot at one point that there was only 1 real program that was being a very effective bot. The program was called Pirox and it was marvelously devious. It ran around zones smart looted items didn't follow predefined paths, responded to people with smart messages. Dealt with being teleported by gms. It could quest all zones and all of the quests in the game. It was ingenious, but it was really the only one around. Instead of going hard on enforcement which was extremely hard for gms to even detect they brought a lawsuit against the company that made the bot and won in court. All of the sudden botting in wow stopped over night. It wasn't actually dead but what was left was few and far in between. Banning of players didn't stop the botting, making it so hard that only a company could make an effective bot did. Then they destroyed that company in one night.

[CottonCandies]

I just got home, and you Hellowarz are still talking pointless arguments, Feuer already defeated you, yet you still cannot comprehend, you are an imbecile Hellowarz, you are always trying to cast your defense mechanism when you're obviously wrong, accept defeat, I realized there's no sense explaining to you so I would not argue to this thread any longer

 

Feuer is right from the very start, such a big post is not necessary, you're just committing a lot of mistakes and stating lot of unsupported claims. 

[Hellowarz]

I just got home, and you Hellowarz are still talking pointless arguments, Feuer already defeated you, yet you still cannot comprehend, you are an imbecile Hellowarz, you are always trying to cast your defense mechanism when you're obviously wrong, accept defeat, I realized there's no sense explaining to you so I would not argue to this thread any longer

 

Feuer is right from the very start, such a big post is not necessary, you're just committing a lot of mistakes and stating lot of unsupported claims. 

 

Good to see that since you have no valid argument all you can do is throw ad hominem.

Your whole first bit is complete name calling. 

 

Feuer is right on what exactly? So far he has agreed with enforcement not working before and then delved into extremities away from the actual argument. The only reason everyone is upset with me is because the argument is strong and it upsets people then they attack me personally and that is the reason why my argument sucks.

 

Committing a lot of mistakes and stating a lot of unsupported claims... like what?

 

So far everyone for enforcement has been making a lot of claims with no backing. I get we all feel like we don't like bots, but doing something because we feel like it doesn't make it the right answer.

[Hellowarz]

Look i'll back up how enforcement is wasting time and energy. 

People fighting for over an hour the other day on wether some group was botting or not.

I personally have been checked multiple times now by gms , I hope not because of this thread but it wouldn't surprise me.

Checking on me has wasted their time.

The number of submissions that gms now have to take time to go check has risen.

I was never checked out by a gm to my knowledge before this post.

Enforcement has created a strife in the community getting players to hate other players.

 

All this wasted time and energy could be going to an actual solution.

That is why this is important to talk about.

 

Saying that a player should leave does not help and isn't an argument. I've seen it multiple times now and it does nothing but promote hate.

Worse this hate distracts from real discussion because conversation delves into name calling back and forth.

The claim that anyone is for botting has, in almost every time it has been used, a distraction from the point of the poster before. 

Very few and i'm talking like what 1 person? Has actually promoting botting. Others are making points about why botting is around and why people do it which are valid reasons to consider if we want botting to be history here.

 

Btw maybe a gm should follow me have run into 3 groups in the last hour that are clearly macro/bot.

Edited by Hellowarz, 07 December 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[Feuer]

Look i'll back up how enforcement is wasting time and energy. 

-this should be good.

People fighting for over an hour the other day on wether some group was botting or not.

I personally have been checked multiple times now by gms , I hope not because of this thread but it wouldn't surprise me.

Checking on me has wasted their time.

-it's their job to do so, ie, they get paid to do it. ie not a waste of time

The number of submissions that gms now have to take time to go check has risen.

-again, that's their job. They get paid to do it. 

I was never checked out by a gm to my knowledge before this post.

-that's because up until you started posting in this thread, you had effectively posted nothing

Enforcement has created a strife in the community getting players to hate other players.

-That's not new. and if everyone had a healthy respect for the rules, that strife wouldn't exist. It only exists because people are feeling guilty, because they know they broke the rules and are subconsciously defending themselves and trying to justify their actions. 

 

All this wasted time and energy could be going to an actual solution.

That is why this is important to talk about.

-it's a waste of time and energy to talk about, but this is why it's important to talk about it. .. seriously?

 

Saying that a player should leave does not help and isn't an argument. I've seen it multiple times now and it does nothing but promote hate.

-Telling someone that ROSE isn't the game for them when they say they dislike or even hate every single aspect of the game except 1 is perfectly logical. 

Worse this hate distracts from real discussion because conversation delves into name calling back and forth.

- Kinda like how you keep using the term 'ad hominem' to degrade someones stance? Be it factual, statistical, emotional or opinion they still have the right to say it and feel it. You're ust making it out that personal feelings don't matter at all. Which is degrading the person, not the stance.

The claim that anyone is for botting has, in almost every time it has been used, a distraction from the point of the poster before. 

- Not really. The only people who are bent out of shape about it are the botters or people guilty of botting/intending to bot. A stronger enforcement of the rules doesn't apply if you don't break the rules. 

Very few and i'm talking like what 1 person? Has actually promoting botting. Others are making points about why botting is around and why people do it which are valid reasons to consider if we want botting to be history here.

 

Btw maybe a gm should follow me have run into 3 groups in the last hour that are clearly macro/bot.

 

Personally, I agree botting should be gone. My problem is that you are promoting the idea that breaking the rules should have no consequence. And the reason we have the rules is because we know botting is damaging, which is why we want it all gone, right? 

So let me ask you this. If we know botting is damaging to the game, and we want it gone, why would be not hold those accountable who CHOSE to damage the game or participate in damaging actions? 

And if you even think about saying that it's not their fault, I'm going to have a hay-day with the next post. 

 

 

Feuer is right on what exactly? So far he has agreed with enforcement not working before and then delved into extremities away from the actual argument. The only reason everyone is upset with me is because the argument is strong and it upsets people then they attack me personally and that is the reason why my argument sucks.

 

Committing a lot of mistakes and stating a lot of unsupported claims... like what?

 

So far everyone for enforcement has been making a lot of claims with no backing. I get we all feel like we don't like bots, but doing something because we feel like it doesn't make it the right answer.

 

 

I never said it doesn't work, I said it doesn't work as well as it could, learn to read and don't speak for me.

The reason everyone is upset with you is because you seem oblivious to the fact that you're saying 'botting is bad, but we shouldn't ban them' it doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

Committing a lot of mistakes? I challenge you to support that statement right there.

I've backed everything I've said with either source material, factual dates and evidnce if available or most importantly, common sense.

Edited by Feuer, 07 December 2015 - 05:28 AM.

[Hellowarz]

Lol feuer you have backed nothing you have said up. Besides your opinion and a statement about history which didn't provide any factual evidence about botting. 

 

I have already stated how I am for banning bots.

 

I am upset because we are putting a focus on it when the stated goal that we want to achieve is no more bots. Ok you said it didn't work as well as it could and you have yet to show how it will this time. However you never waste time in going out of your way to demean me at every chance you get. Why do you insist on attempting to silence, instead of actually discussing?

 

Way to twist my words on my statement "All this wasted time and energy could be going to an actual solution. That's why it is important to talk about."

I didn't mince words but you clearly interpreted it wrong. 

Putting a focus on enforcement is a waste of time and energy. Just because it is someone's job doesn't mean it will provide a real solution to the issue at hand. The job could instead be used on making incentives in the game that make botting useless. Why do you not understand that point?

 

Every time I have used the call of ad hominem is because it was. It was not an argument, it was feeling and more importantly an attack of a person which is not a reason against or for anything. That is why it is used. I am not degrading anyone. I respond to every reasoned argument, you keep saying you have provided stats, the only fact that you have ever provided is a history on the game that had no bearing to the next statement about amount of botting. I agree that there was less botting in the past however so that point does not need to be substantiated. I don't attack people personally, I counter arguments that have been given. Which is a lot better than the majority of the posters for enforcement as their go to is ad hominem against dissenting opinion. Attacking others is not a feeling even on the issue, it is just attacking others to feel better. I am fine with people stating their feelings about botting. What I am not fine with is the attempt to personally attack every person because they have a different point of view.

 

You always go back to attacking the person instead of the argument is the issue here. Instead of making any case how enforcing is going to achieve the goal of no botting you merely say that it is the rules so it should be done.

 

You aren't making sense on the "Committing a lot of mistakes" point. Do you mean that I was saying that to you? I was responding to CottonCandies that said I was.

 

What source material have you provided once? You already agreed stats for that are not available, so don't claim you have done something when you clearly have not. You have provided dissenting argument. Which is perfectly reasonable, although your arguments tend to delve into attacking me and straying from the topic which is how enforcement is not achieving the intended result.

 

I have supported my claims on the player base and the amount of item mall development in the game. As well as knowledge about botting in other games when enforcement was tried and when incentive was tried.

 

To answer your question on botting damaging the game the answer is I agree that they should be banned. What I don't agree with and you still have yet to ever address is how it won't achieve the intended result.

 

Never botted, never have, never will. Why do you always imply that just because someone is against pushing enforcement they are a botter or have been or intended to be?

 

Enforcement is a feel good response to a problem not the solution. While enforcement is fine, thinking that is going to solve our botting issue is non sensical. Since the inception of the updated policy, I have seen no meaningful change in the amount of botters around me. They are still everywhere. They will continue to be until everyone here understands how if we make enforcement a priority it not only does not get the result but it takes resources away from other solutions.

 

That is why I am so upset. I see that we are using resources for the wrong solutions so that they can pretend to appease the community while no real change occurs.

[LucieFear]

... really guys?

Botting is and has always been a bannable offense. Don't want to get banned? Then don't bot, it's pretty simple concept. 

If everyone understood and accepted that, then no one would get banned, and *gasp* the population wouldn't drop D: oh my. 

 

@Hellowarz

You flip flop more than anyone I've ever seen. 

"I am upset because we are putting a focus on it when the stated goal that we want to achieve is no more bots."

You're not going to achieve a goal if you don't focus on it.... 

 

Anyway

Enforcement is meant to solve rule violations. Not cure the Reasons people choose to violate them in the first place..

Content and feature expansions however could be aimed at preventing people developing reasons or excuses to bot or break other rules.

 

The fact is simple. Botting is against the rules and it is a CHOICE to break the rules; not a requirement.  The game is boring or you don't like the game then don't play it. No one is forcing you to play a game you don't like.  I have issues with ROSE that were too much for me and I left until they change and only if they change. I didn't complain or try to persuade the staff or forumers to alter the game or it's policies just for my own benefit. I simply said "no thanks" and let it be. Because the fact was I actually didn't like it. 

I imagine you [and everyone else who rants and raves for dozens of posts] do like the game, and the content but you feel like you have to call it garbage or trash that needs* to be improved. The truth is however that the content is fine or even good at times and you feel it could just be better.

 

@CottonCandies

You silly, but your English needs a touch up :X No disrespect <3

 

@Feuer

Why are you arguing with him?

1: He doesn't have a single supporter in his position and not a single person is agreeing with his position that botters shouldn't be banned because it doesn't work.

2: He hasn't provided any actual evidence to support his claim, and as the plaintiff the burden of proof relies on him. You don't have to respond or prove anything to him until he provides material evidence to support his case. 

3: He's just repeating the same thing over and over and I don't think he's stopped to entertain a single other persons opinion. He's only read it with the goal in mind of trying to prove replies wrong. 

4: You're holding back. I've seen you destroy people in his position, stop toying with him and either leave it be or end it.... 

5: You're still a jerk. xD 

[Feuer]

.... Get to school before I call your mom and tell her you're playing hookie again. 

[Filipito98]

Just to make a point here ,  Ever since news broke out about botting  there is alot less people afk everywhere spamming skills, and more people actually COMMUNICATING with eachother talking to eachother and playing!

THAT is how truly rose is supposed to be...

 

yea still there are botters out there and i do hope they get what they deserve, but game is heading towards the end of that dark tunnel!

 

 

Just remember, many years ago mentioning word Botting was bannable even trough forums, i m shoked that this thread is still open for discussion , what are we really arguing about ? something that is illigal and allways forever was illigal read the terms of agreement YOU HAVE signed up for when YOU started playing game!!! Stop crying over something u were NEVER supposed to have,

 

GM's were nice enough to have put up rule "hey u can bot but u cant go afk away from ur screen", thats basicly same as u are pressing those buttons but without pressing them just staring at ur screeen? watching ur char do aoes ? cmoon like if you really were at you'r screen watching ur char, admit it you were afk and even tho botting is 3d party program and was illigal they put rule that u could do it as long as u were not away from ur monitor but since lets say ALL botters  becose none of u were sitting and watching ur screen  lets be honest here, were going afk and ruining the game experience for others  it was time to do something about that, there shouldnt be game "full of people that afk  trough continent" if you want to have free botting go play Eso, you will see how sad and boring that game is full of macros everywhere 24/7 farming spots  and none ever beeing able to.

 

 

Question is what is MORE boring watching ur char do aoes , or click them ur self and do them?  becose that was the two options u had with their rules they had put up before they changed it...  
 

 

Lets face it , botting situation got out of controll people all of sudden took it for granted that they could auto lvl while going afk (wich was NEVER allowed) so just again what are we arguing about here?

Go to orlo and do a party with just aoers (mostly champions) and lvl up with bot

and i will ask, in a orlo party what is more boring, watching ur chars do aoes for nothing and take lots of time for lvl up, or have a gd party (aoers, mages, anything but without bots) and lure out the mobs in a spot and get more exp?

Orlo with just aoers and clerics is like a newbie party, u can't lvl up easly in orlo with only aoers and clerics, u need a lurer.

one day i was luring for hours and hours wile you know my cleric was doing one work and my knight was doing another work, do u think i was bored? no because if i wanted to lvl up, or i lure the mobs, or i just log off, in that time it was my best 4~7 hours of luring, i've been always checking the buffs, equipment, MY BULLETS, and guess who was doing most of work, me, wile i see others partys aoe wasting them time for almost 0 exp .... i could had got more exp if i had more members (aoes and maybe one or 2 more lurers) but it was mostly only me and a champion player, only us 2 did most of work, i wouldn't mind to acept anyone, aslong as they did them work and not be afk. but that was old times wen i was lvling up, i do have patient for lure again, but this time without bot, only one char (or another incase if lvling up 2 chars) soo i can do business, i lure in exchange for 2 slots, one for my "semi afk" char and another for my lurer

if i was aoe and no one luring? i would lure also, what's a party in orlo without lurer?

 

 

Sorry, but if it took me a few months to hit max, I probably woulda quit. I am sure I can still max out in a week without a bot, however, my fingers would get numb from it, and I'd probably pay even less attention to what I am doing, and simply just key-press spam while I watched TV.  

A lot of people like rose for the fast leveling, but yes, people like you also have the option of taking your time and 'enjoying the experience'  . 
For players such as myself though, I hate questing, I hate story lines, I hate all that garbage. I play for one reason, and one reason only, and that is PVP. 

 

Using a macro has been allowed for a long time, however the conditions of using it, was that you was not able to multi-client bot. Now they have entirely removed the allow-ability to do such thing, this is what I am upset about. 

I do not agree with AFK botting, but I cannot fathom why anyone would defend being forced to have to press the same freaking keys, over and over again, just to level... When using a macro, doesn't hurt anyone.  I have never been banned before for using a macro. Nore has anyone ever been upset that I've used one. (except maybe one person, but she was a total wackjob anyways) 

then how u enjoy a game in the start? like i said posts before, want to pvp? try to find a pvt server with high rates, or maybe create one for pvp

 

 

Pretty lame solution, I enjoy playing PVP in the OFFICIAL ROSE. If you suggest to me that I go play a private server that you can buy max level, it makes sense that half the people pushing for Warpportal staff to ban botting, are supporters of those private servers. Kill this server, so the one y'all play on will flourish. :x 

I'd prefer they just go back to the same rules they've had on it for the past... what, 3 or 4 years, and have new comers have similar opportunity as old players have had.... 
If they're going to butcher leveling by saying you cannot run a macro, (when the rule already stated a person wasn't aloud to multi-client macro)... .... Just, whatever, you've made your point, you think all people that macro, or bot, are cheaters and don't deserve to play the game... If people like you continue to change the course of ROSE in such a way, I can assure you of its downfall. 

Macro and Botting was always against the rules, in any game, in every Terms of Service (terms of services) or w/e, macros, botting, hacks, cheats, etc isn't allowed soo better don't come here saying that before this "new rule" ppl can't bot anymore, ppl shouldn't bot since the start, and is them problem if they lose them accs due they got catched, before any report vs bots was like 0, now it might be different

Using macros, bots, cheats, etc is like the player isn't even playing the game, there games that have macro systems but u need to configurate the macro but in this case ROSE dont have macros so no excuses

 

There's a few things i will say about the patch notes

wana know how much devs we have?

3

Genesis, Leonis and Mad Programmer

do u think 3 devs can make much work like WoW Devs, and other popular MMORPG games?

this game is going slowly, and what i see is them doing it right, what's the point doing it fast? soo ppl can get rid of the problem? them just 3, them not superhumans, THEY DO THEM BEST, and still u guys complain alots

Quests,

have u guys saw the new about the person that did the story quest? maybe try to ask what happen to him and be curious, story quest have stopped years ago due something happen to the person that was doing the story quest and tbh i dont even remember what happen, but maybe ask here and then maybe someone will give the answere for that

There's atm ways for lvl up in those certain lvls

Dungeons

what they give?

- Gd exp

- UNIQUE ITEMS LIKE LVL MAX DUNGEONS

- can make Rose economy better due ppl farming lots of dungeons (newbies and high lvls)

if u guys can't play the game due there's no partys (or let me say there's no more botters for help you guys) then maybe try to find ways, or if u dont care about that, just leave

Devs dont want u guys leave, but keeping like this makes the rest of community says

just leave then, we don't need you, if u can't support atm this, then just leave

that's what i think nw in all the threads i saw

i didn't quote others threads due there was lots and most of them i didnt understand, but about feuer, angel, and others ppls that ik, i agree with most of them threads

why?

- because them right

- because they might know more

- because they have one objetive, making rose better

wile the rest is like saying "make botters not banneable, soo rose can be better"

WRONG

BOTTERS = BAN

END OF TOPIC

as i said, if u want to see how annoying botters is, go play Lineage 2 and check the lvl up maps, only botters botters and botters, wen u want to kill one mob sudendly they just cast a skill, annoying af, luckly u can pk them

if rose had a pk system in non pvp zones, wana know what? most of bots would be already death for years, YEARS.

players using bots is like they aint playing the game, having fun, etc.

and again want a pvp? pvt server, and dont u guys dare to come to say that u guys want to pvp in ORIGINAL SERVER

if u guys want, do u work, surpass the boredoom that u guys call, and do u progress, because without that, there's no pvp

 

 

I m sorry but you'r fingers would survive you spamming skills, its proven before that its possible.

Using macros has hurt people, using macros doesnt give u controll over KS situation wich hurts others.

Ofc people were upset seeing ur char running around on auto hitting mobs here and there prolly ksn them or them trying to communicate with you but you not responding, its just that u werent there at those times that happend!

Its funny that all of you that crys over botting is mentioning i do not agree with afk botting, but be honest with you'r self how many people actually stares at their monitors while macro is clicking skills??? personally i would fall sleep watching my char run on its own when i m just doing nothing its like watching a hamster run in a wheel over and over again, how fun is that actually?

Botting = AFK even if you dont agree with it, at some points u did go eat while macros were on, watch tv or go pee, that also counts as A F K. 

 

 

And people took the rules that were before, about macros and turned them into freakn autolvln pilot that could littlerly get you to 230 while u were sleeping. When rules stated diffirent about macros, 1 client only but most of you botters lets be honest had atleast cleric on auto heal and a aoe spammer, maybe even knight with sacrifice ?
Rules were also you have to be by ur monitor but somehow people saw that as meh they wont know if i m here or not and gone sleep lvln and farming.

 

Here is an exemple of botting situation that hurts game and gives unfair advantages!

A friend of my was banned for botting a GM spawned right next to his party and teleported 1 by 1 character whoever was on auto was banned, that was his first time ever botting i know its a bit funny, and all his char was doing was spawning salamander flames  u would think that salamander flames wouldnt hurt game right? but was still botting so.. anyways the day after this rainbownamed club of a clan we all know who they are were at exactly same spot as u see them everyday everynight everywhere all afk  spamming skills like there is no tomorrow and their mage was auto targeting mobs so much it would even ks other partys around, wich was so annoying!!!
Anyways they stayed at that spot afk entire night and well since they werent as unlucky as friend of my they didnt get cought and banned. (and that is even after we have reported them, they were still hours and hours at that spot, not to mention it was during active GM's time they didnt get cought)
 

So why does 1 person get banned for doing it once while some goes trough lvln 10 chars afk whole night without getting banned? Its just unfair it might aswell be as it is now Bann whoever is botting make sure that rule states no macro no botting is allowed so that THAT dissadvantage of people lvln entire night on auto dissapears entirely!

 

 

 

And if all you  want is macro for ur skills but you still running ur char and is fully 100% devoted to what is happening in game, i dont see a really way u could even get banned or cought like that even if you played 10 years ago with those before strickt rules about bottings and GM's more actively hunting botters. So if thats all you want is macro skill crap but you still plan to be 100% there i dont see how they would even notice that u are using macros? so Why do you complain?

i do know that feel because i've already reported bots for that and they still was there, and i got pissed af. as the "new system" says if player in the data have "bot" then banned, but tbh looking to that i dont trust in that, because there's players that bots, but the data/system says they aren't ..... is one of the things i hate wen im reporting someone that's rlly botting

 

anyway idk what more to say, maybe i will wait for more posts for see what will come next

and i will say again

Bot = must be ban (NOT SHOULD, NOT CAN, MUST)

end of topic

~FilipeKun

[Dragonlark]

I will be cleaning up this topic and it will be locked at this time.  We understand and appreciate your input on alternative ways to better ROSE, however if you have further specific suggestions please create a thread with that suggestion in the Proposals and Suggestions forum.  If you are interested in there being more quests in the game, and have an idea for a specific quest or quest line, we have a forum for quest submissions as well.