8 replies to this topic

[rakionist]

I made this thread before RE invokers broken skills, but im gonna add on some extra points to reinforce how much edge this class has over the rest. Again I read your replies about waiting for balance n what not, ok i get it. Just making thread so when balance do come (if it ever will), admins and fellow DS players can refer to my arguements and decide to nerf or not.

Invokers freeze and frog have a really ridiculous hit rate in terms of AOE. Allow me to elaborate, while it SEEMS like a linear skill, it actually hits in front in the shape of an oval, meaning if ur on top n invoker is below or vice versa, it will still hit you too. On top of that, the most whacky part about this skill is this... When you jump away invokers freeze still hits you even when you are in the air. Dont believe try it for yourself and observe carefully. Be it regular jump or dash jump, it still catches you which i find is ridiculous. Lets not forget this freeze is INSTANT CAST, which makes jumping away even more Futile. So you guys review the hit rate of this skill and think whether or not its broken.
(Cooldown nerf wont help js, if you ask me to suggest, i'd say do away with the ability to hit enemies jumping)

The Z spam has its flaws which I learnt recently so I shall leave it as that since its reasonable. But its still rly OP with high AS.

X spam for invoker is something that should be looked into too. Jumping in the air also gets struck by it too, ground X spam able to hit jumping enemies... Also, this X attack of invokers has knockback effect which breaks opponents ability to attack and stops them in their tracks too. Cant attack and cant escape << broken much no?

Before anyone votes against this nerf whether you are an invoker who doesnt want ur own class to be nerfed or not, i wanna re-emphasize the purpose of nerfing. Nerfs should be placed when a class has a huge EDGE over OTHER CLASSES. Not because the class is STRONG. The keyword is EDGE over other classes.

[Popcorn]

As I said several times, we won't nerf any class for PvP when the changes are highly affecting PvE.

Class balances are no point of discussion at the moment. Classes will be balanced as soon as separate balancing is possible.

 

Also we need no other "invoker is too strong" discussion again. I think everyone is aware that the classes need balancing and we already had several discussions about it.

 

When it comes to balancing we can discuss what has to be balanced in which way (especially for PvP). Until then no new "class balancing" discussion is needed because it only results in basically nothing.

 

However, if you feel you need discussion do so. But there will be not changes before we aren't able to balance properly.

 

 

 

[Agitodesu]

When you jump away invokers freeze still hits you even when you are in the air. Dont believe try it for yourself and observe carefully. Be it regular jump or dash jump, it still catches you which i find is ridiculous.

 

lol. That's not true. This only happens if you are the one playing against the invoker. On the other hand if you have played an invoker you should know what it actually does.

 

Just saying, barbarian can only target people on the ground. It can not magically freeze people in the middle of jumping, dashing in air or recovering from air. This is why it is client sided. From an invokers point of view, the other person must touch the ground or be on the ground the instant they cast barbarian otherwise it would miss. On the other hand from someone playing against one it looks like complete bs, but it's not.

 

And also invoker x spams are not supposed to hit airborne/people jumping in the air. That would be called hacking or some massive lag abuse.
On the other hand you may just be confused with the multiple flinch overlapping during that spam. so you can't really jump since your'e being flinched prior to jumping.

Edited by Agitodesu, 09 January 2016 - 02:50 AM.

[Kristof3195]

Since its a discussion about it so first of all the knockback is not that horrible on x spam the only thing thats disturbing about it is that it gives super armor. Um barbarian is the same case as shotdown on archers. If the hitbox would get repaired a slightly higher cooldown then it would be fine. Frog gotta get a complete rework its just until u get out of it he just heals to maximum . And swamp id remove the dash / jump block just a slow and fine.

Honestly I prefer to fight summoners over invokers since invokers can x spam while running and summoner gotta stay there is a chance getting them at least. 

[rakionist]

@Popcorn then this thread will be for when separate balancing is implemented then. I don't keep up with every class thread so I dont know about your discussions m8, but if you say everyone or you are aware then thats cool, thats my purpose of the thread as pointed out in first paragraph.

 

@Agitodesu lol its true. you try get an invoker friend to freeze you when you jump in the air. And I mean not play a pvp match, just start a pvp match and both of you stand still and test this out so you get a clear observation. It CAN freeze when the opponent is jumping mid-air at certain heights. As for " invoker x spams are not supposed to hit airborne/people jumping in the air" you should really test this out too with an invoker friend. I tested these scenarios out with invokers before writing this thread.

[Homurasan]

Lag is such a wonderful thing. It might explain a lot, too.

Edited by Homurasan, 09 January 2016 - 06:03 AM.

[Agitodesu]

I've pve and pvped for 7+ years I think I know how barbarian works. As homura said about lag and also the fact that is client sided. Ero has also mentioned that barbarian can not hit airborne targets. I also have tested it back then when ero completely demolished me and I too also blamed he can hit people that are in the air, after pvping with him more and also playing invoker later on It wasn't the case.(ero is practically the top and most mentioned invoker in the server pvpwise and is often used as comparison)

Edited by Agitodesu, 09 January 2016 - 06:38 AM.

[rakionist]

Well fine even if we agree it cant hit airborne n its caused by lag, overall i still think invoker is too broken. The awakenings the one where it strikes a thunder that does a very long stun is pretty OP too. Unlike the frog skill where its gone once you hit it, this long stun duration doesnt have this shortcoming too which adds it to the list of OP skills invokers have. One can argue that that awakening is pretty hard to hit cus of the cast and animation what not, but that is not a problem seeing how invokers can catch easily as explained in my first post.

The other magnet awakening isnt OP so nothing needs to be done about that, all I can say is the skills for invoker really complement well with each other to kill very easily..

Edited by rakionist, 09 January 2016 - 07:18 AM.

[Homurasan]

Muhaha, lv.8 Rolling stone and Z-Z combo are enough for a Summoner to endlessly stun several targets. I believe these are the next ones on your list e_e