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TWIN NERF SUGGESTIONS (PVP)


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#26 Mizuro75

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 04:40 PM

yea u say its so easy to counter them when they run arond with 500 ms constantly just go ahead and hit them with a flashbang which is gonna lag walk them somewhere else :D

 

and about every class got a counter summ is the only counter for a summ 

and that twins are fine by now means they cant solo emporia right.. oh wait c:

 

I did solo emporia back a month ago if you want to call it like that, but the truth is, this wasn't made possible by my class. Sure Twins are made for PvP that makes an PvP-Event easier as for other classes but what I did there is possible with any class, if you suit up for this situation.

 

Little explanation, read it if you like to since it has nothing to do with the topic:

Spoiler

 

 

To the request of a twin fighter nerf:

Twins are are very good in a 1v1 PvP but not unbeatable. Ghost Fighter or the block skills isn't the problem, people using them in a 1v1 are simply playing not fair, would be the same if a dragoon spams Cross Cut and Spear Jab ,an Archer class just holds the space bar, mages, especially invokers heal theirselfs to 100% in no time and so on.... nearly every class can be played in a way that they simply win a 1v1 and if you just want to win a 1v1 PvP without having any fun, you can spam block skills and Ghost Fighters but even this can be countered if you know how and you can play your class well.

 

Especially when it comes to group pvp the twin fighter gains more and more disadvantages, since you really need to be close to the enemy and if you do so you will be surrounded by enemys kinda fast and once you got catched in such a situation you get damage from everywhere and die in no time. Even skills like Infintie Kicking can be cancelled by the enemys very easily, chain combos with a decent speed even cancel your twin skills. Also in team fights you often need to disengage to cast fusion since your twin is stuck somewhere in a hitlock or being bugged by a shotdown or other knock-ups.

 

In my opinion the nerf, which was needed already has been done with Rebound and Weaving being not able to cast in BSQ and EW, so there are 2 block skills left and they can be predicted very easily, especially Infinite Defence.


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#27 flubsy

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 06:48 PM

lol just un-nerf all the skills for all classes.  they won't be as OP.  TR spin bear all day, twin will be flying.


Edited by flubsy, 04 April 2016 - 06:48 PM.

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#28 Precrush

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 01:18 AM

I agree, that solo was not necessarily down to the class, but...

 

Spoiler Empo talk...

 

 

 


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#29 Turpi

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 04:05 AM

 

In my opinion the nerf, which was needed already has been done with Rebound and Weaving being not able to cast in BSQ and EW, so there are 2 block skills left and they can be predicted very easily, especially Infinite Defence.

 

Oh i thought the nerf also was thought for normal PvP.

 

Well any1 who played Twin knows that its not that easy to play if you dont use Ghost Fighter and block. If your twin gets flinshed rip you since ur main character has a very bad combo and catch potential beside Power Fist.

 

Nvm, people still have the ability to perma block. Mizo mentioned that other classes also have the possibility to spam skills.

 

Well Twins can do this also even without block and ghostfighter, but with this 2 skills they will almost get everytime the first catch, which is indeed unfair since casting a skill which goes through block is always a high risk and GF hits almost everywhere.

 

 

 

Twins are still a bit op even after the nerf, ye. A good nerf for twin would be a higher cooldwon for Fusion or a seperate hp bar for ur Twin witch makes it killable with the possibility to respawn after like 6sec.

 

Also you could reduce the casting time for ghostfigher but also the range of this skill at the same time.

 

But while we are talking about unfair classes and skills i have to say that the re-nerf of Overlords Stumble (there was a renerf or? Didnt played pvp against an Overlord here xD) wasnt needed in my opinion, many people will hate me now for this sentence but thats what i think. Ez 360° skill with high stun chance together with the great element dmg of bloody roar and lv 8 wild rage in the following ground and aircombo.

 

The flinch effect of Summoners smartshot is also way too op together with the macro spam and atk speed at this server, i would suggest to remove the flinch, at least in PvP together with DK.

 

Thumbs up if you like my suggestions!  :Emo_13:

 

 

Turp~


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#30 Wutangraiseu

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 07:04 AM

Just learn how to fight them, they were already nerfed stop with these threads


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#31 Turpi

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 07:38 AM

As Bustincaps already mentioned its not that easy to fight twins.

 

Yes they already got nerfed but the question here is if they are still unbalanced. Ninjas got also nerfed more than 1 time until it was a almost balanced class.

 

Sure you have to learn how to fight Twins, its a rare class and the most player are too afraid to 1o1 them. 

 

With sentinel its okay to fight a twin since u got nice instant skills for catching and traps for a good ground control. With Destroyer and all those Warrior classes its really hard to counter a twin and probably almost impossible if the Twin knows how to play his class. I mean just wait until the opponent casted his only catching skill against a twin and then rush forward him to use MC Dragonkick or Powerfist to get him in a high DPS groundlock. This would be still a fair and "friendly" catch from the twin. He could just use ghostfighter and ggwp for the most warriorclass user.

 

Sentinels could spam traps to flinch the the Twin after using GF but the Twin itself could just cancel GF, rush through traps with weaving and cast GF again.

 

All other classes will get pretty much catched if the Twin used the right distance for GF.

 

As I can see you use to play DK, maybe you could post a video where you play against a Twin, maybe its really easy for you to beat them and we just gained not enough experience.

 

Would be great tho, Im always happy to meet better PvP'er than me. I met some tho, but they play without chaincombo and with rules. For myself this is too requiring getting used to and i enjoy the CC system too much.

 

But well, lets see ~


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#32 Elijazz

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 07:47 AM

Beating them more consistently because of what? Them being LESS gamebreaking than before? "Less gamebreaking" is not what the community discussing this topic is looking for; they're looking for "balanced". And why does every thread regarding how overpowered a class is get instantly labeled as a complaining thread? The op is not a QQer, and doesn't deserve to be labeled one. We are all aware of the imbalances and strength differences between classes like Twin, Invoker, and Summoner in comparison to the typical class. The op is not complaining just because they are attempting to discuss these imbalances and brainstorm ways to make them more balanced. Anyone here trying to act like the Twin isn't imbalanced either most likely mains the class or is feeding their ego by defending the class and trying to sound like a pro with their "Twin isn't hard to beat" comments. I don't care if you're a revolutionary player that never loses a PvP match, even on a lvl 1 char vs. an 85 cap Summoner with stacked gear. Anyone can notice the balancing issues here... pro or not.

 

When you guys can start admitting to this and humbling yourselves is when this conversation will actually be productive.

 

You got some point here. There are still class imbalances in game  that they are aware?? I hope so. (even if they dont pvp). That's why some of the players here who understand the game properly still label twin on top tier. You dont have a choice here but wait for them to work on their goals and balance everything that's possible. So if you dont want to waste a time playing this game play a good support role or top tier chars. Just my opinion for those people who wants to pvp.


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#33 Wutangraiseu

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:09 PM

As Bustincaps already mentioned its not that easy to fight twins.

 

Yes they already got nerfed but the question here is if they are still unbalanced. Ninjas got also nerfed more than 1 time until it was a almost balanced class.

 

Sure you have to learn how to fight Twins, its a rare class and the most player are too afraid to 1o1 them. 

 

With sentinel its okay to fight a twin since u got nice instant skills for catching and traps for a good ground control. With Destroyer and all those Warrior classes its really hard to counter a twin and probably almost impossible if the Twin knows how to play his class. I mean just wait until the opponent casted his only catching skill against a twin and then rush forward him to use MC Dragonkick or Powerfist to get him in a high DPS groundlock. This would be still a fair and "friendly" catch from the twin. He could just use ghostfighter and ggwp for the most warriorclass user.

 

Sentinels could spam traps to flinch the the Twin after using GF but the Twin itself could just cancel GF, rush through traps with weaving and cast GF again.

 

All other classes will get pretty much catched if the Twin used the right distance for GF.

 

As I can see you use to play DK, maybe you could post a video where you play against a Twin, maybe its really easy for you to beat them and we just gained not enough experience.

 

Would be great tho, Im always happy to meet better PvP'er than me. I met some tho, but they play without chaincombo and with rules. For myself this is too requiring getting used to and i enjoy the CC system too much.

 

But well, lets see ~

 I am currently looking for twins to battle in the game, so I might post a video, if I can't, I will make sure to post my results here.


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#34 eyes2kill

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 10:17 PM

You got some point here. There are still class imbalances in game  that they are aware?? I hope so. (even if they dont pvp). That's why some of the players here who understand the game properly still label twin on top tier. You dont have a choice here but wait for them to work on their goals and balance everything that's possible. So if you dont want to waste a time playing this game play a good support role or top tier chars. Just my opinion for those people who wants to pvp.

 

Hmmmmm.... I would not recommend anything for pvp these days, cause sooner or later they will get nerf, what used to be top tiers are now obsolete. Summoner just got nerf, for the better nerf during pvp, but the exception of not able to use smartshot for pve (that kind of suck xd). Twins and priest both need a nerf, twins need to have block taken out like everyone else and priest either make freeze a stunt type (like frog) or remove all healing from pvp. They both will still be powerfull, but not unbeatable. Twin still have all the stunt, but can get caught when coming in and priest will be able to die without the running and healing all the time. Anyways, thats just an overlook of what used to be the top 3 tier, which now the summoner is out of the top 3.


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#35 5143121023173906760

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 10:26 PM

Hmmmmm.... I would not recommend anything for pvp these days, cause sooner or later they will get nerf, what used to be top tiers are now obsolete. Summoner just got nerf, for the better nerf during pvp, but the exception of not able to use smartshot for pve (that kind of suck xd). Twins and priest both need a nerf, twins need to have block taken out like everyone else and priest either make freeze a stunt type (like frog) or remove all healing from pvp. They both will still be powerfull, but not unbeatable. Twin still have all the stunt, but can get caught when coming in and priest will be able to die without the running and healing all the time. Anyways, thats just an overlook of what used to be the top 3 tier, which now the summoner is out of the top 3.


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#36 Bustincaps

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:55 AM

Twin sill needs nerfing; this thread is for discussing possible nerfs, not discussing whether or not they need nerfs.... because they do. This is a class that has some of the highest mspeed in the game, has a meatshield with infinite HP, can still attack you while you're comboing them and have them stunned/frozen/etc., has easy & infinite locks, a homing STUN skill with high damage that cannot be out-run if within range to start, and a spammable 100% block skill. I'm also confused as to why a lot of these nerfs on the top classes are only affecting BSQ and Empo.... why not the lobbies?

There is more than a fair amount of players, me being one of them, that come on this game mainly for Practice Mode PvP. In all honesty, I think Practice Mode PvP is the entire reason this game still exists. Long-term players didn't stick around for all these years to go to a flawed guild war system, super-flawed BSQ, and farm the same EZ-mode dungeons with recycled content over and over. What a joke....

 

Long-term players are here for the Lobby PvP. They like it because the abundance of broken game mechanics in combination with the style of mechanics in general allow for such intense, responsive, unique-to-each-player, and artful gameplay. The only people that care about PvE are the casuals/newbies and short-term players, and BSQ/Empo is only popular because PvP is popular. The organization of these PvP mini-games is horrid. Apart from this fact, most of the money made on this game is made off of PvPers gearing up their characters FOR PvP. And while I understand business and that this server is alive a lot due to its new players as well, that doesn't dismiss the fact that Lobby PvP is a very important part of this game. It definitely should not be overlooked by the staff when making new content or working on game balances. 

 

Argue with me all you want, but I've played this game for like 7 years and I am here for the Lobby PvP.... along with every other old player I know. If you disagree with this theory, the reality is that you are someone that will not be playing this game for much longer. You'll move on.


Edited by Bustincaps, 18 August 2016 - 11:22 AM.

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#37 a240sxtypex

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 05:43 PM

sure lets nerf them to a point where they are not even called twin fighter anymore heck just remove the class so everyone can be happy since i mean who does play twin end game or even at all ? i can name only 2 that are active enough LOL 


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#38 a240sxtypex

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:42 PM

i mean this a PVP 1v1 class or can be played in a group pvp also if played correctly but i mean have you in fact play a twin vs high tier pvpers? and if you said you have y arent you playing it if its so strong? dont give me a bull reason like its boring and its not your style then y complain? its a high risk high rewards class 


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#39 a240sxtypex

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:46 PM

so yea i wanna start a discussion about the topic,

 

just short story i pvped one today lv 64 im lv 83 she could one combo me if she want and i was sitting infront of my screen beeing able to do nothing :))

 

so my suggestions:

 

- nerf power fist stun duration and the way it works with atk speed

- lower the duration of the twin block cuz the twin i fought used twin block and after that charged ghost fighter and i wasnt even able to stop her from charging so i think this one is fair enough 

- weaving: instead of blocking after the dash start the duration of the block at the begining of the cast 

- At light speed: higher the cooldown for this ability i mean they can run at "light speed" almost 24/7 also i mean comon 3/3 and its maxed and gives more then adrenaline for destis which gives 35% at 5/5

- also maybe some of the twin spells should flinch the "main" for like 0,1 sec cuz u can kite with 1hp and wont get hit while killing the enemy but maybe it would kill the smooth way of the twin fighter

- infinite kicking: in my oppinion its the better bear from an overlord -> more dmg, more kicks = meh

- ghost fighter: i dont know the range where u can dash to ur opponent but i tryed to out run it 416 ms and i got hit everytime so if there is one lower it (its similar to "Swift Attack" which has a range) also maybe just     flinch the enemy and not stun them 5 times in a row so they cant dodge ur next power fist - i stood there unable to do anything for about 3-4 sec 

 

well thats all from my side i hope we can get a decent discussion out of this

 

(im sorry for any typing errors  :p_swt: )

 

i mean your are lvl 64 what can you expect to win vs a lvl 83 twin i mean with or without element you still cant do anything unless that player decides to degear to suit your gear cause that goes to say for every class thats higher level then your are 


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#40 Nobility

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:30 PM

i mean your are lvl 64 what can you expect to win vs a lvl 83 twin i mean with or without element you still cant do anything unless that player decides to degear to suit your gear cause that goes to say for every class thats higher level then your are 

smh. re-read what u quoted. 

"just short story i pvped one today lv 64  im lv 83"


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#41 Bustincaps

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 08:15 PM

i mean your are lvl 64 what can you expect to win vs a lvl 83 twin i mean with or without element you still cant do anything unless that player decides to degear to suit your gear cause that goes to say for every class thats higher level then your are 

 

Apart from aimrate issues, it's very possible for a player of this level range to beat a normal geared 80+ player in 1v1 PvP with no gear removal (unless they have a bunch of 6* resist cards, in which case the typical endgame players won't be PvPing them, anyway) if they're a good player. However, if it's an 80+ TWIN, not a chance. Here lies the point of this thread.

 

Edit: Even though the poster above me just called you out on a miss-read...... >.>


Edited by Bustincaps, 18 August 2016 - 08:17 PM.

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#42 eyes2kill

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 02:41 PM

sure lets nerf them to a point where they are not even called twin fighter anymore heck just remove the class so everyone can be happy since i mean who does play twin end game or even at all ? i can name only 2 that are active enough LOL 

 

I know twins are the most powerfull PVP players for a "FACT" and the main reason people hate to play me when I use my twin. There's no denying it, we need a NERF badly. I don't need blocks at all, cause is over as soon i come in is all about the stunt, 1vs 1 they get reckt, in a group is a simple tactics move fast hit and run.

 

We are the most OP end game characters and therefore, I don't mind all blocks been taken out, cause I don't need it and it stabilizes the game, for individuals to time it and hit us. The top 3 need it a nerf, summoner is done now, but twin (take off all blocks) and priest (take off all healings) should receive the same treatment.


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#43 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:05 PM

I don't need blocks at all, cause is over as soon i come in is all about the stunt

XxwOxOE.jpg

Sorry, I won't make fun of your spelling anymore.

Edited by 5143121023173906760, 19 August 2016 - 03:05 PM.

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#44 tZerot

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 05:35 PM

Twin sill needs nerfing; this thread is for discussing possible nerfs, not discussing whether or not they need nerfs.... because they do. This is a class that has some of the highest mspeed in the game, has a meatshield with infinite HP, can still attack you while you're comboing them and have them stunned/frozen/etc., has easy & infinite locks, a homing STUN skill with high damage that cannot be out-run if within range to start, and a spammable 100% block skill. I'm also confused as to why a lot of these nerfs on the top classes are only affecting BSQ and Empo.... why not the lobbies?

There is more than a fair amount of players, me being one of them, that come on this game mainly for Practice Mode PvP. In all honesty, I think Practice Mode PvP is the entire reason this game still exists. Long-term players didn't stick around for all these years to go to a flawed guild war system, super-flawed BSQ, and farm the same EZ-mode dungeons with recycled content over and over. What a joke....

 

Long-term players are here for the Lobby PvP. They like it because the abundance of broken game mechanics in combination with the style of mechanics in general allow for such intense, responsive, unique-to-each-player, and artful gameplay. The only people that care about PvE are the casuals/newbies and short-term players, and BSQ/Empo is only popular because PvP is popular. The organization of these PvP mini-games is horrid. Apart from this fact, most of the money made on this game is made off of PvPers gearing up their characters FOR PvP. And while I understand business and that this server is alive a lot due to its new players as well, that doesn't dismiss the fact that Lobby PvP is a very important part of this game. It definitely should not be overlooked by the staff when making new content or working on game balances. 

 

Argue with me all you want, but I've played this game for like 7 years and I am here for the Lobby PvP.... along with every other old player I know. If you disagree with this theory, the reality is that you are someone that will not be playing this game for much longer. You'll move on.

 

Sorry for the bump.  I agree with everything said about the twin and also that is the exact reason that I play (when I play).


Edited by tZerot, 02 July 2017 - 05:36 PM.

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