83 replies to this topic

[ManItsMike]

I'll be home in about a half hour, after I fix my sister's dishwasher. I'll do a video as well, Someone remind me to set OBS to 1080@60 so we can see.

[Nobbye]

I dont have best unity equipped on my summoner but after lowering atk speed from 300% to 200%, it started to feel a bit faster around 230%. University called so I couldn't make a video of it but Im sure others will make enough of them.

[Precrush]

Popcorn's video looks fine to me.

If you compare his 408% atk speed to Yagarachis 324% atk speed you can see the 408% is clearly slower. And I think Popcorn has a powerful enough pc for that not to make sense either.

 

Edit: Here's a GIF comparison of that:

 

408% atk speed

 

324% atk speed

Edited by Precrush, 12 May 2016 - 01:51 AM.

[Yagaraschi]

If you compare his 408% atk speed to Yagarachis 324% atk speed you can see the 408% is clearly slower. And I think Popcorn has a powerful enough pc for that not to make sense either.

And this could be the consequence of more character atk speed -> lower x spamm! like the actual problem is...

 

[Precrush]

We'll should just wait for some other video/videos of atk speeds between 250-350 I guess, so I'll shut up till then lol

[Fliederduft78]

Guys, the breaking point seems to be 268% attack speed. Just throwing this in here.

I had a test run with 5 summoner friends of me and each of them has a "normal" attack speed around 300 to 320%.

 

Each one of them "downgraded" his equip piece by piece and the closer they got to 268 the better it was.

4 of the 5 made it to 272 but one made it to exactly 268%.

All used Smartshot and the one with exactly 268% was the fastest. Plus that one actually told me " dang it I can now even attack faster by holding down the button as I did before with 320% attack speed".......well, that was what he said, I'm just stating this here.....

 

All summoners confirmed that under 268% by continuing to downgrade their attack speed the attacking got slower, as it should be the case.

 

 

Thought even though I have no experience with summoner class myself this kind of info might be helpful.

 

[ManItsMike]

Here we go. Here's my input.

 

edit: Turned off monetization, because I'm awesome.

 

https://youtu.be/-BKQ1mdmNcQ

 

https://youtu.be/w1oq3Dyd8TA

Edited by ManItsMike, 12 May 2016 - 02:28 AM.

[Zackx23]

Here we go. Here's my input.

 

edit: Turned off monetization, because I'm awesome.

 

https://youtu.be/-BKQ1mdmNcQ

 

Thanks for the video Mike. Here everyone can clearly see the difference of the REAL AS when getting beyond 268(?)% AS

[ManItsMike]

Thanks for the video Mike. Here everyone can clearly see the difference of the REAL AS when getting beyond 268(?)% AS

 

Edited my post to include invoker.

[Popcorn]

After some testings I can confirm that 268% is the point the summoner has this issue.

Due to the reason for that it's very possible that other classes have this too, but at a higher amount of ATK speed.

This depends on the animation length. I don't want to explain it deeper here not because it would be a secret, but because it's a bit too complex to explain.

 

Anyways, at a certain point (when the animation is done) the client says: "Hey, I think we need a delay here". The other problem is that I still need to investigate where to locate it in the code.

 

Before we discuss about an ATK speed cap I will first try out and check things which came into my mind now. I can't get no sleep until I checked everything out which I think could be a reason for it. That is what I will do. However, I can't promise that I can do anything before the next maintenance, it could be a complexer problem here. But I want to prevent for all means that the players who stacked their equip - with or without spending real money - are capped without a really good reason (at least not in PvE). If a cap in PvP is needed and/or wanted is another thing we can discuss when I either fixed that issue or when I give up - what's usually not my "style". When it comes to the point that I say "I give up here" I really tried everything I am able to and the client lets me do. With that in mind please do not pin me down that I will be able to "fix" this issue, but I'll try my best to. If this is actually a client limitation I can't get around by any idea popping up in my mind it is like it is.

 

I am very thankful for every information I gathered from you and for the help and effort everyone puts into this subject. 

 

 

[Precrush]

Alright, hope we can get this fixed^^ It's not game breaking by any means, so no real rush there. Maybe change some calculations so that people achieve this max animation speed at a higher atk speed %?

 

I'm normally against all kinds of caps but if there's no proper fix to this then a cap is in my opinion fitting, you definitely don't want people going over that and after a while realising that not only did it not benefit them, but actually made it noticeably worse. 

 

I dunno, maybe you can still get higher atk speed by spamming x yourself meanwhile. Or is that the fastest the animation goes?

 

EDIT: ManItsMike's invoker results match mine, didn't see an issue there either. Perhaps it starts doing the same at a much higher atk speed. 

Edited by Precrush, 12 May 2016 - 02:41 AM.

[zirothos]

i did some test too with my summoner and i got 420 attack speed on it,.  and i test multiple speed ''%''

 

and in the end For me with 370% to 420 and event 450% with all the possible buff. i don't shoot faster.

 

My theory is, my PC spec make me shoot fast before any attack speed bonus, SO i reach the max possible animation lock faster.

 

The only thing i feel weird about it the gap between the 370 and 450 should make a different event for me, but i dint see any,

 

 

Intel® Core™ I7-4770k CPU @ 3.50GHz 3.5GHz '''8 Core''    with 14GB rams DD3

Zotac GTX geforce Nvidia 970.

 

PS: yes i know i put 2 time the GHz but they write it like that on my spec.

Edited by zirothos, 13 May 2016 - 01:36 AM.

[VModChimichanga]

Hey, everyone.
Happy Friday the 13th. Popcorn has spent a ton of time buried in code, and has tweaked the client to shoot as fast as possible with the right attack speed, of course. Anything beyond that will not be possible due to the game's limitations.

He told me he's going to push it to next maintenance if at all possible, and also "Goodnight, everyone"

[Vossel]

good that i made an Overlord i can feel a  difference if i go from 350% up to 480% AS. Maybe this is because my Overlord won't reach the "maximum" because the animation of that first hit is like two or three times as long as the one of the summoner. So i guess i have to aim for the 579% next haha

Edited by Vossel, 13 May 2016 - 12:26 PM.

[zirothos]

yes invoker and summoner have a quick animation. I will test with my invoker to see how much i can go befor it slow down

[Precrush]

Hey, everyone.
Happy Friday the 13th. Popcorn has spent a ton of time buried in code, and has tweaked the client to shoot as fast as possible with the right attack speed, of course. Anything beyond that will not be possible due to the game's limitations.

He told me he's going to push it to next maintenance if at all possible, and also "Goodnight, everyone"

Good to hear. Now get some rest before Popcorn before you get yourself totally burned out!

[zirothos]

summoner> 265-450% attack speed it attack with the same animation speed. XD test finish and it seem to be the same for invoker but the minimum is higher 300%+ it the same

Edited by zirothos, 13 May 2016 - 03:24 PM.

[Samu386]

265% or 268% ?
My Earth Master have 266% but i don't understand about the meaning of the issue... Animation of Smart Shoot between 265-450% = same or other range of atk spd?

Edited by Samu386, 16 May 2016 - 01:49 PM.

[zirothos]

the attack speed don't change from 175-450 to be clear

[Zackx23]

the attack speed don't change from 175-450 to be clear

 

it does. 268% seems to be the maximum the animation can handle without getting some weird side effects that slows you down. When you turn off the new x-spam feature you can overcome this but using the new x-spam feature it would be better if you have about 260-270% (best 268% as others mentioned before). 

 

But as Popcorn already said he is working on something so I'm quite sure this will change sooner or later

[VModChimichanga]

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but I think Popcorn will have the new version ready for tomorrow's patch. I shouldn't mention anything, because I haven't confirmed it, so we'll see.

[5143121023173906760]

Besides the fact that the client isn't pushed at its limits yet. I also think that the attack speed cap depends on the PC's settings.

While some people will feel the difference beetween 360 and 380 % attack speed, some others won't see anything changed beetween 250 and 300 %.

[Fliederduft78]

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but I think Popcorn will have the new version ready for tomorrow's patch. I shouldn't mention anything, because I haven't confirmed it, so we'll see.

 

Would be cool. But I'm quite optimistic, Poppie is great with making "miracles" happen.  

However if not I'm sure the tweak will come in as soon as Poppie is ready (happy?) with it.

 

Besides the fact that the client isn't pushed at its limits yet. I also think that the attack speed cap depends on the PC's settings.

While some people will feel the difference beetween 360 and 380 % attack speed, some others won't see anything changed beetween 250 and 300 %.

 

Yeah, the PC for sure has something to do with it. I agree on that. I mean we already know that a slow PC does slow your attacking down. So yeah, I guess you are right there.....

[zirothos]

Would be cool. But I'm quite optimistic, Poppie is great with making "miracles" happen.

However if not I'm sure the tweak will come in as soon as Poppie is ready (happy?) with it.

 

 

Yeah, the PC for sure has something to do with it. I agree on that. I mean we already know that a slow PC does slow your attacking down. So yeah, I guess you are right there.....

 

Yes the PC change it a lot. that y i can lower it to 178% and still don't feel the slow down.

 

Let see what the patch will do.

[Popcorn]

Here is the current situation:

 

I was able to tweak a bit, after several tests it's not getting slower with higher attack speed (my tests included measuring the pixel distance between each projectile) and they changed around 1 pixel more or less, but this also depends on what the PC is doing, how fast your PC is etc. 

 

However, there is a delay between every input processing of 0.02~0.025 sec. which I can't adjust, because the client would start to lag and the server would be flooded with requests if this is changed. That would destabilize the game. 

 

The patch coming in tomorrow is all I can offer for the fast x-shoot system.

 

In conclusion:

- it definitely still depends on your PC,  FPS drops etc.

- everything else is now client limitation

 

Thanks again for all your help and thanks to VModChimichanga for helping with the tests.