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Current state of Dragoons overall thoughts?


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#1 Kristof3195

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 02:48 PM

Hello guys. First of all some rules on this thread this is no complaining about what ever balance I just want to know your opinion about goons overall ingame how they deal with every situation pvp and pve wise or where is their current position in some individual ladder.

 

well then my thoughs.

 

Lets start with Pve

- Their Pve is not that bad when it comes to f1 farming due to rolling ground having a low cooldown and high damage. Overall pve ( my function in elga being a clock is not realy nice and enjoyable ) its not that great since I have there only 1 proper damage spell to use then the ultimate deals heavy damage ( still lower then snipe :D ). Clearing galaxy dungeon / element dungeon on the same level as me is close to impossible and taking lots of time . Currently having 420% crit damage and hero pos weapon. 

 

Pvp

 - They got great CC but sadly its just flinches which get countered by super armor and the always loved lag walks 24/7 :D They got long combos without spamming thats a nice aspect for pvp but the main problem in my opinion even tho they got the highest skill damage scalling in game from they last buff in what ever expansion ( dont know now correctly ) they got no multiple attack skill except rolling ground but that spells animation is handicapped and would never use it against a skilled oponnent except for wall hugging. 

I recently dueled some overlords and a lvl 65 with a magichenge lvl 55 weapon put up more damage ( yes he was using bloody roar I was aware of that ) then me with a hero pos weapon. 

Please do not come you can lock everyone with 3 spells.. every class can lock with xx numbers of spells some just have it easier then others so..

 

-They got no reliable superarmored stun so they got close to no chance countering super armor ( except u run 300 attackspeed then xxz does the job :P but thats lots of wasted equip slots there) 

 

-Then there is the Blocking animation bug which backfires every combo, every escape so I considered already to stop using a shield and parry :D 

 

Overall I love to play my goon but it is in a realy bad shape for now being countered by obvious stuff even the client itself :D hopefully it will get back to its glory as it was without being beyond broken.

 

Your thoughts on it what would you like to see for the class or what do you disagree with my opinion, is the class in a perfect shape as it is now for you? Share your experience :) 


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#2 Vossel

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 01:23 AM

actually i don't think that the block is a problem because how are you supposed to block something if you don't do a thing?? i think block is good as it is now (meant for the animation) because to block damage you have to offer a moment of time.


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#3 Kristof3195

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 03:36 AM

actually i don't think that the block is a problem because how are you supposed to block something if you don't do a thing?? i think block is good as it is now (meant for the animation) because to block damage you have to offer a moment of time.

Okay so lets say it you are being spammed by a class with high attackspeed right? How do you escape it? U use a spell that gives super armor right? Then when you try to use that spell the block animation cancels the spell cast and you are back where you have been so I dont think this seems right.

 

If we would to follow your logic it would be the way yes block needs an animation but logicaly when you perform an attack you cannot block since ur busy attacking but thats too much to program :D 


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#4 Vossel

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 04:23 AM

Okay so lets say it you are being spammed by a class with high attackspeed right? How do you escape it? U use a spell that gives super armor right? Then when you try to use that spell the block animation cancels the spell cast and you are back where you have been so I dont think this seems right.

 

If we would to follow your logic it would be the way yes block needs an animation but logicaly when you perform an attack you cannot block since ur busy attacking but thats too much to program :D

logicly the Dragoon should be able to attack and block at the same time because he attacks with his sword and got a shild to block with but as you said it needs an own animation for sure but as busy as the Developer are right now(Arcadia update) i don't think there will come anything.

I like the block mechanism of the Dragoon a lot but since it got nerfed so hard i think he just got way to week (PvE and PvP), but still not the weakest.


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#5 Precrush

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 06:03 AM

When there was that one other conversation about this I initially looked at it like Vossel does, that it makes sense for blocking to flinch. But after thinking about that, here's my thought process:

A dragoon could move with his feet and block at the same time, just as one could block with a shield and attack with the other hand. But also one could argue that blocking, or dodging to that matter, would take too much concentration for a dragoon or any other class to do anything else meanwhile. So really, you can logically spin it either way. Whats the most gameplay friendly wins in that case I think, and that would be goons being able to move an attack while doing it. But this kind of block or dodge should never be made very strong due to the randomness in pvp imo.

Block and dodge could also move like better def essentially, meaning you only avoid all the dmg, not any of the other things, such as knockdowns or flinches. That'd be a balanced way and dodge/block stacking could be made more powerful with such a system without all the problems of harmlessly walking trough dmg due to random chance.

I'll put my overall opinions on goons here later, but the summary is that I think with ele rework they should be at a good spot.

Edited by Precrush, 14 May 2016 - 06:04 AM.

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#6 Kristof3195

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 09:40 AM

When there was that one other conversation about this I initially looked at it like Vossel does, that it makes sense for blocking to flinch. But after thinking about that, here's my thought process:

A dragoon could move with his feet and block at the same time, just as one could block with a shield and attack with the other hand. But also one could argue that blocking, or dodging to that matter, would take too much concentration for a dragoon or any other class to do anything else meanwhile. So really, you can logically spin it either way. Whats the most gameplay friendly wins in that case I think, and that would be goons being able to move an attack while doing it. But this kind of block or dodge should never be made very strong due to the randomness in pvp imo.

Block and dodge could also move like better def essentially, meaning you only avoid all the dmg, not any of the other things, such as knockdowns or flinches. That'd be a balanced way and dodge/block stacking could be made more powerful with such a system without all the problems of harmlessly walking trough dmg due to random chance.

I'll put my overall opinions on goons here later, but the summary is that I think with ele rework they should be at a good spot.

I gave it a thought and if block would be entirely gone from the game a solution to remain unique with this mechanic for goons would be a skill shield block you would go into a certain stance and block the next incoming skill no matter if its a multi hit it will make a block for that one certain skill and give it a 15-20 sec cooldown so it wouldnt be ridiculously OPed. Tho there would have to be a solution for ninjas either.


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#7 Vossel

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 10:11 AM

I like the idea of that stance but like i already said developers are busy right now with bugfixing and the arcadia update but for the Ninja i would recommend dodging the next hit instead of blocking it


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#8 Agitodesu

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Posted 14 May 2016 - 06:30 PM

 

 

Posted 30 April 2016 - 09:07 PM

The actual mechanics of block is dumb. It's like shooting yourself in the foot if you have a decent amount in the first place. Yes you can block, but everything you do gets canceled because of it and it's quite annoying.

 

 

I never knew about this problem with blocking. I now go far out on a limb and claim that the former devs just wanted to use the flinch animation as a visual effect. However this has two big problems: If we assume that they are using the original flinch effect this effect can't be canceled, this is why you're stuck. The other problem is the alternative form (Ninja form, the guard shield), there is no animation available for the original flinch effect which results in being stuck. However, this is totally useless. I can't think of any reason why a "blocking" skill shall flinch, this is absolutely nonsense.

 

However, from what I read we need two things:

- removing the useless flinch effect from blocking

- looking into the block items (for my own information: are these items not working for blocking classes like the knight class or are there blocking items for other classes as well I don't know about?) 

 

 

Popcorn will deal with the flinch effect eventually.


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#9 Turpi

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 12:34 PM

why did you pt that ss in ur signature, vossel? xD

 

and why did you divided it in 3 pictures, if its real?

 

I for myself think that DK is again a nice pvp class. It got soooo many good catches, long combos, op ground locks.. i mean you can almost lock with every stupid skill of DK and if you got TR on you only have to spam sword dance if im not wrong.

 


Edited by Turpi, 15 May 2016 - 01:04 PM.

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#10 Bustincaps

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 02:31 PM

Dragoon is perfectly balanced in PvP if you ask me. Block having an animation really isn't enough reason for this class to need buffing; it has many strengths that outweigh the few negatives, and every class has negatives anyway.


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