17 replies to this topic

[Kristof3195]

Helluh guyses and grillses. Jk

I was wondering what would you think if skills in PvP would have a fixed amount they would deal. It would be great for someone with low health since the % stays the same and someone with incredibly HP stacked gear would take lots more dmg but in the and the same % With some defensive modifiers.

 

It would be a great fix to X spammers there would not be needet a complicated reduction of stuff and bla bla bla just make every Summoner ball take 0.01% of the hp ( just threw that number for fun dont take it seriously so you would understand my concept) He would basicly still shoot like a squirrel on crack but without that ridiculous dmg.

 

It would make classes like dragoons or Ninjas usefull again since they do not have any multihit skills like others do that stack with elements and etz. So elements could be gotten rid of or taken just for PvE purposes as it was intendet. ( example Cross cut taking 4% of the enemys hp etz ) 

 

There wouldnt be a ridiculous amount of golds needet for endgame PvP or what ever lvl you would stack so more people would enjoy PvP.

 

And basicly the damage modifiers of weapons ( I mean the numbers we got all at our weapons like 30k matk etz ) Would purely be for PvE.

 

A healthy defensive Ratio would be implemented like 20-30k armor blocks eh 25% of the incoming dmg so instead of 10% from cross cut it would deal just 7.5% of the targets max hp

Strenght and Intellect could be revamped either to be usefull again like with the armor up there the same principe

 

So what do you think of my idea. Any cons ( please do not mention the I worked so hard for my gear and should ridiculously stronger then the guy with just purple gear and no sockets bla bla Thank you. ) or more pros

 

And id like to ask Popcorn in the first place if its even possible ( even tho I do understand thats a truck load of work but theoreticaly it should fix most stuff.

 

Edit - All numbers above stated are just examples and serve for explaining purposes.

 

Edit 2 - Since there was some confusion in the guild about equality ill try to explain it more detailed

People who spend 1 mil on their gear will have the advantage of higher damage and defense by a certain % but still someone with slightly lower gear has the chance to kill them if they are skilled enough.

 

Edit 3 - Please keep this topic clean and refrain yourself from unnecesary commentars that could offend other people. Thank you appreciate that.

Edited by Kristof3195, 21 January 2017 - 12:04 PM.

[Vossel]

I like the idea of seperating PVP and PVE damage, you planned it well, but it could be lots of work to find the % that fits each skill/x attack of each class. This could also be abused again, if for example Dragoon x attack gains 3% and then all dragoons just go full attackspeed and keep people stunned in their chain and kill them really fast with it. I would say each class gains the same amount of % on x attacks but x attack altering skills like double shot or helix shot devide the % by 2 or 3.

[Kristof3195]

I like the idea of seperating PVP and PVE damage, you planned it well, but it could be lots of work to find the % that fits each skill/x attack of each class. This could also be abused again, if for example Dragoon x attack gains 3% and then all dragoons just go full attackspeed and keep people stunned in their chain and kill them really fast with it. I would say each class gains the same amount of % on x attacks but x attack altering skills like double shot or helix shot devide the % by 2 or 3.

But modifying % seems to be easier balancable then canceling this and that skill and this damage comes from max weapon damage this damage comes from max magic attacks. Honestly I think auto attacks should not play a big roll in the main damage source so we get away from that attack speed over all builds. So I thought x attacks would be rather something like 0.4% but that would be a matter of testing I guess.

[Precrush]

Something like this would be nice for a pvp mode, but I think it's important to have empo and bsq for example heavily gear focused so that there's real intensive to gear up. If we ever get a proper ranked mode I'd want it to have something like this.

 

It'd be a lot of work to implement if it's even possible, just coming up with good balanced numbers on all our skills would take a long time.

Edited by Precrush, 22 January 2017 - 04:10 AM.

[Kristof3195]

Something like this would be nice for a pvp mode, but I think it's important to have empo and bsq for example heavily gear focused so that there's real intensive to gear up. If we ever get a proper ranked mode I'd want it to have something like this.

 

It'd be a lot of work to implement if it's even possible, just coming up with good balanced numbers on all our skills would take a long time.

Honestly Empo and Bsq need a rework thats a PvE run thing not a PvP thing at all. But lets leave it at that this is not a topic to discuss those 2 separately its overall PvP. It would just lead to another battle of complaints about those 2.

Edited by Kristof3195, 22 January 2017 - 04:38 AM.

[Agitodesu]

I don't like this idea at all, but it's just me so don't sweat it. However the concept of % damage on certain skills would be ok, but not on every skill. There is a reason why many successful games don't do this. Many games revolve around some type of enchanting because it provides something to work for and etc. Only game I can think of that's like this is street fighter, might as well ask popcorn to hand is a free character for any bsq range for soley pvp since F7 is the same thing over and over. I know you can reduce % damage with more gear, but like I said many games don't follow this type of balancing for every class.

Another reason why the old elements where busted because everything was based on % rather than a flat amount. Trust me I sat and afked against someone with 8-10k elemental attack and won with a meteor earring.

Also who would determine the % for every skill for pvp? None of the people who work with the game are experienced on pvp, having every skill balanced by the community would be like running through a mine field and we would be left with a messed up indecisive community with some players for and against a new fix for that change, leaving a stressed popcorn.

Oh and 1 more thing, this is like me if I was a complete noob and didn't like the fact that I did 0 damage to those who +20ed armor, I Die to someone with a +20 weapon, I do 0 damage to those who stack resist and take infinite damage from those who have elemental attack sooo lets just rework everything cause that's unfair because those who worked for gear, having popcorn help to make this game more friendly on stacking, have no word since that's not an excuse apparently. I rarely see new players coming onto the forums to complain about the whole pvp system. People should have complained about enchanting on day 1, it's like f6 rings, why do they even exist? But they still do, so many people pumped in money to f6 rings and likewise enchanting gear.

Edited by Agitodesu, 22 January 2017 - 06:09 AM.

[Kristof3195]

I don't like this idea at all, but it's just me so don't sweat it. However the concept of % damage on certain skills would be ok, but not on every skill. There is a reason why many successful games don't do this. Many games revolve around some type of enchanting because it provides something to work for and etc. Only game I can think of that's like this is street fighter, might as well ask popcorn to hand is a free character for any bsq range for soley pvp since F7 is the same thing over and over. I know you can reduce % damage with more gear, but like I said many games don't follow this type of balancing for every class.

Another reason why the old elements where busted because everything was based on % rather than a flat amount. Trust me I sat and afked against someone with 8-10k elemental attack and won with a meteor earring.

Also who would determine the % for every skill for pvp? None of the people who work with the game are experienced on pvp, having every skill balanced by the community would be like running through a mine field and we would be left with a messed up indecisive community with some players for and against a new fix for that change, leaving a stressed popcorn.

Oh and 1 more thing, this is like me if I was a complete noob and didn't like the fact that I did 0 damage to those who +20ed armor, I Die to someone with a +20 weapon, I do 0 damage to those who stack resist and take infinite damage from those who have elemental attack sooo lets just rework everything cause that's unfair because those who worked for gear, having popcorn help to make this game more friendly on stacking, have no word since that's not an excuse apparently. I rarely see new players coming onto the forums to complain about the whole pvp system.

Dont worry Im used to constructual criticism this topic is about to find the pros and cons so Im glad you did throw some interesting opinions in here.

So now my answer : What skills do you think should not be % and why do you think so? The only thing i can come up atm is like cross cut spear jab so people wont abuse CC lock but on the other hand what class cant do a perma lock. Thats again another issue.

 

Thats why Im thinking of getting elements out of PvP at all having a third party interfering with damage and defensive is just another bother to balancing stuff.

 

 

But you are right on the balancing topic that there is nobody to balance the skills. But then again its the same as it is now. The community is balancing and testing the skills and giving the feedback. None of the staff members does that so there would nothing be changed. We would probably need 2-3 people superior in their class to give their opinions so it wouldnt be everything balanced by 1 guy.

 

And the issue is that none of the new players does PvP they are like well you need thousands of golds to get gear and sockets and stuff for PvP they are not even bothering to touch that aspect of the game. And that I think is an issue. 

Edited by Kristof3195, 22 January 2017 - 06:09 AM.

[Popcorn]

Just one word: Nope.

 

[Agitodesu]

Just one word: Nope.

I like you lol

[Kristof3195]

Just one word: Nope.

At least could you explain why not being completely plain about it? Is it too much work or wouldnt it work at all?

[Popcorn]

At least could you explain why not being completely plain about it? Is it too much work or wouldnt it work at all?

 

Agitodesu basically said everything needed.

I understand your idea but the things Agitodesu already pointed out are correct.

 

[Firdeus]

What about starting by taking it a bit simpler? For example, adding a cap to dmg or def, ofc proportional to your gears. I understand the point that those who worked and invested on gear deserve an advantage but if a more casual player is more skilled than a +20ed lvl 80+ player then he should be able to kill him. In other words, make skill>gear as it should be. As Precrush said above, EW and bsq can be kept for heavily geared ppl so gears are still worth somwthing. Other than that, I don't really see any disadvantage this could bring. Stacked ppl still will be stacked, this will only give a boost to more casual players that are skilled and make pvp more fairer overall.

Edited by Firdeus, 22 January 2017 - 06:39 AM.

[Kristof3195]

Agitodesu basically said everything needed.

I understand your idea but the things Agitodesu already pointed out are correct.

I dont know if you did read my answer for Agitos statement. Id appreciate if you would do so . If nothing would change so be it its then up to you again to balance stuff out. 

 

If you wouldnt mind can you keep this topic unlocked. Id like to see peoples opinions towards this change. L ll try to shut down every try of harassment and etz. Thank you.

Edited by Kristof3195, 22 January 2017 - 06:36 AM.

[Precrush]

A sort of balanced pvp mode, even just a toggle in normal pvp, would be an amaizing thing to have and I'm sure it would revitalize those pvp rooms a bit. But ye, stuff like this just has to face the hard reality. Most of the people are here for pve, probably because we've never had proper support for pvp but still, and that means any big efforts on the pvp front probably wont give the majority of our current players anything. It may help us gain more players, but as a business decision keeping focus on pve is the safer move. You also have to give huge advantages to those who put in the money or effort to get gear for obvious reasons. So I recon it's best we try to work out a way to make pvp accessible, balanced and rewarding one small step at a time rather than a drastic system change, at least for now.

Edited by Precrush, 22 January 2017 - 11:12 AM.

[Apocryphos]

Have to say nope to this as well skills itself have an inherent infliction that keeps the player from moving whether it be by flinch lift knockdown/back stun or freeze x spam is free damage without the skills to keep players still x spam is just poking damage. And by this logic if x spam on destroyer was .01% that would only total to 0.3% on full hits sniping since snipe is based on single arrow damage. All in all I can't support any damage nerfs at this point considering the way elements work.

[Vossel]

Have to say nope to this as well skills itself have an inherent infliction that keeps the player from moving whether it be by flinch lift knockdown/back stun or freeze x spam is free damage without the skills to keep players still x spam is just poking damage. And by this logic if x spam on destroyer was .01% that would only total to 0.3% on full hits sniping since snipe is based on single arrow damage. All in all I can't support any damage nerfs at this point considering the way elements work.

Why do you always see only the nerfs? This was a suggestion for a PvP adjustment. The numbers he mentioned were just to visualise it to people. His idea was not designed to be a nerf to strong players but more as a buff to the weaker casuals.

[Apocryphos]

I also think about how the development process is going to be like the dev team would have redo each and every class then he'd have to have to fix the already complicated damage formulas he went out on a limb to find out to accommodate for this absurdity. So please make reasonable suggestions until we know the dev team has a better understanding of there tools & the client. I see the nerfs cause I've been through the nerfs and these sort of threads have all kinds of hidden agendas, this one in particular is out to kill the ones who dps the current meta and they are killing people at reasonable rates. What I'm looking for is buffs for the weak not nerfs for the strong since buffs for the weak will NOT promote a tank meta where players aren't dieing fast enough. Are you unsatisfied with the current output of the current meta? The idea itself seems out of reach.

Edited by Apocryphos, 22 January 2017 - 03:35 PM.

[Fliederduft78]

I'm sorry but I do not like this type of idea at all. I know what you are trying to do and that is okay. This is just not the right way to do it.