Destroyer AS - Archer Class - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

Destroyer AS


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 30 March 2017 - 12:56 PM

Why has Destroyer an AS cap at 270% and Sentinel at 300%?

 

Its a bit harsh to compare Destroyer with Summoner and i doubt there will be a big difference between 270% AS x-attack spam and 300% x-attack spam by hand. But theres a big difference in doing chaincombos between 270% and 300%. Since Destroyer got way less catching skills compared to Sentinel and since you dont want to spam Snipe and ShotDown only, ChainCombos are very important for them.

 

So please speed up the chaincombo animation so it fits with the 300% of Sentinel, or just raise the cap for Destroyer. In PvP noone uses the fast x-attack function aynways, since you cant do fluent chaincombos with it, and i dont think it will make huge changes in x-spam. You will basically just hurt yourself if you use the fast x attack in PvP.

 

You can only make use of it when the opponent is stunned at the ground, and the only way to do this for Destroyer is with Flashbang (which makes the opponent often disappear) and chaincombo, which wont work good with fast x-attack. You get my point?

 

If someone is saying that 300% AS cap for Destroyer would be gamebreaking in PvP and PvE, then just take a look at Summoner. Summies and Invoker have a way higher DPS and they can play PvP with fast-x-attack on.

 

But again, Destroyer needs fast Chaincombos in PvP, and the animation of Destroyers chaincombo feels already slower than the Sentinels one if you compare them with same atk speed. So please raise the cap, or do smth else.


  • 0

#2 Popcorn

Popcorn

    Woodie-Holic

  • Dragon Saga Staff
  • 5379 posts
  • LocationGermany, Europe, Earth, Milky Way, Universe
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 30 March 2017 - 01:17 PM

Thank you for your feedback. We will take your opinion into account when it comes to further decisions.

Please keep this discussion clean. Thank you.

 


  • 0

#3 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:15 PM

Oh thank you also for that kind reply. I almost expected something like a topic lock, so thx for thinking about my feedback. :)


  • 0

#4 Coolsam

Coolsam

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4994 posts
  • LocationHiding from my Subscribers
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:revreS

Posted 30 March 2017 - 03:24 PM

I do agree with the OP. Aside from chain combo stuns 300% as on destroyer won't be as bad. Their x-spam modifiers aren't as lethal as double shot, diffusion and helix. Additional the ones available to Destroyer are much more susceptible to lag which often messes with classes x-spams compared to the other two.
  • 0

#5 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 30 March 2017 - 04:07 PM

yeah, thats right.


  • 0

#6 HakannBlast

HakannBlast

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:23 AM

well invoker is just better cuz magic damage is a op stat compared to physic one 

 

when 30k magic is better them 80k physic  you know something is wrong

 


  • 0

#7 Agitodesu

Agitodesu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1978 posts
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:None

Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:25 AM

Its on par with my 200k+ Patk, when my skills crit over 1 million but summoners can hit 1 million with 1-3 x buttons, less if it crits, invokers can just hold down x for consistent damage that outdps it since high patk players are skill based rather than auto based so they automatically do less damage. X has no cooldown and scales much better with matk than patk. Atk spd for chain combos won't hurt if it goes to 300% though :) The thing is with destroyers can reach that cap so easily with adrenaline.


Edited by Agitodesu, 31 March 2017 - 10:29 AM.

  • 0

#8 HakannBlast

HakannBlast

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:37 AM

Its on par with my 200k+ Patk, when my skills crit over 1 million but summoners can hit 1 million with 1-3 x buttons, less if it crits, invokers can just hold down x for consistent damage that outdps it since high patk players are skill based rather than auto based so they automatically do less damage. X has no cooldown and scales much better with matk than patk. Atk spd for chain combos won't hurt if it goes to 300% though :) The thing is with destroyers can reach that cap so easily with adrenaline.

 

 

yeh what i meant x wise magic damage is much better with much lower value this is a obvious issue 


  • 0

#9 eyes2kill

eyes2kill

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 172 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 31 March 2017 - 09:46 PM

Why has Destroyer an AS cap at 270% and Sentinel at 300%?

 

Its

 

The answer is obvious and wont matter, because you still have people running background programs to enhance attack speed, (normally priest and summoner class are the must abuse) using locking micro to continues to stun (archers)even if there is a cap, cheaters are everywhere in bsq. Tell us your secret loit? XD.

 

There is not much that can be done, unless they are able to use anti-hacking tools (shield hack) in which in this game is too late to have.


Edited by eyes2kill, 31 March 2017 - 09:50 PM.

  • 0

#10 Agitodesu

Agitodesu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1978 posts
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:None

Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:14 PM

I legit believe you can't thoroughly hack the game to that extent and popcorn agrees. It's hard to tell unless there's a massive gap in what you believe in what is right. I can use the crappiest laptop on planet earth and have 300% attack speed and say that a person using a NASA computer using 200% attack speed is hacking. It's just how good your pc is relative to how crappy someone else's is. The thing is players that live across countries have this lag that looks like hacks when it isn't. I can replicate some nasty stuff if I just download my yaoi hentai and upload some dangerous deep web stuff and try to pvp. It's just how it is because not everything is client sided unlike many games. I can guarantee you that them spending whatever to install that will kill off probably no one. But hey anyone can be suspicious. I mean look at popcorn, he practically hacks at will hehe. Jokes aside no one cares about pvp as much since the gap is so huge between pveing casually vs being viable in pvp.


  • 0

#11 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 01 April 2017 - 01:53 AM

@eyestokill how can you push atk speed over 270/300 if theres a cap? i dont think this is possible.


  • 0

#12 Coolsam

Coolsam

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4994 posts
  • LocationHiding from my Subscribers
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:revreS

Posted 01 April 2017 - 03:33 PM

The answer is obvious and wont matter, because you still have people running background programs to enhance attack speed, (normally priest and summoner class are the must abuse) using locking micro to continues to stun (archers)even if there is a cap, cheaters are everywhere in bsq. Tell us your secret loit? XD.

There is not much that can be done, unless they are able to use anti-hacking tools (shield hack) in which in this game is too late to have.


I understand that sort of theories about possible exceptions. I even felt a lil curious and brought up certain things with the developer about such things. Their anti-cheat nowadays is pretty solid. Even crazy instances that you'd expect a bigger expert to pull they looked into.

Also Attack Speed is 1 part PC, 1 part listed stat. Even though these classes have 270%, they might have graphical capabilities to ensure smoother, quicker animations. Maybe a suspected player has some beautiful $900+ PC as well. It's very complicated and requires extensive spectating, comparison and contrast, and long research on both said class(es) and in-game mechanics.

Like above me had written, it's possibly not doable anymore and it's easy to confuse due to client sided nature of skills and animations. So let's not bring up stuff like that and remain on topic.
  • 0

#13 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 02 April 2017 - 09:37 PM

39cc538d0b8e2f112ccb667687b95317.gif

Versus

6166ff9fb75023b558ab1a807d2914b3.gif

rather old but much more relevant now.

And I don't think any sort ranting will show immediate results they're clearly busy with other more game-breaking matters. like filling in *missing* game content.


Edited by Apocryphos, 02 April 2017 - 09:41 PM.

  • 0

#14 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 April 2017 - 11:36 PM

what shall this gif show us? 2 times a destroyer, 1 time holding xbow, 1 time holding normal bow. With the normal bow he shoots way faster in the air (doesnt work on sentinels tho). So what has that to do with the topic?


  • 0

#15 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:27 AM

It's shown in the air to give a clear illustration that at the same attackspeed bows are faster than xbows mainly because recoil on xbow adds additional delay. Further evidence that having the slower class at a lower cap increases inbalance.
  • 0

#16 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:30 AM

That effect only appears when destroyer are holding bows. My Sentinel isnt shooting so fast in the air with even 300% atk speed.. or can you replicate this at sentinels also?


  • 0

#17 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:59 AM

Again its shown in the air for clarity. feel free to try to compare them on the floor if you'd like but this is a comparison of the weapons in the clearest way I could think of with only one variable changing.(the weapon)
  • 0

#18 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:57 AM

but it doesnt work if you dont cast adrenaline, or?


  • 0

#19 Agitodesu

Agitodesu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1978 posts
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:None

Posted 03 April 2017 - 11:06 AM

Cleaner way to say it is that apocryphos is trying to say that a bow benefits more than a crossbow in general.

 

His gif that he's showing gives us the clearest gap, instead of showing the AAS, attack animation and everything else. If you AAS with a sentinel and a destroyer with the same attack speed, Sentinels shoot faster if you look at it it carefully. If you do the x chain combo it's also different in terms of attack speed. It's not really about how you should try to replicate this, it's more about bow vs crossbow. Since he probably doesn't have a sentinel it's the cheapest way to pretend you are a sentinel with high atk spd gear, who knows lmao.


  • 0

#20 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 03 April 2017 - 12:16 PM

Idk what im doing wrong. If i use Sentinel i do only like 3 shots in the air with chaincombo disabled and enabled. So it shouldnt be the bows fault, or? But yes, chaincombo animation looks smoother at sentinel, thats why i asked for the 300% AS cap for Destroyer, so it becomes kinda fair.
  • 0

#21 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 03 April 2017 - 12:32 PM

You're not doing anything wrong, It was a destroyer only test I kept everything the same except the weapon (the basics in testing methodology). But clearly a bow is faster in most aspects than a crossbow since a large majority of our skills that shoot arrows are attack speed orientated given same attack speed the aerial test was performed so you can see the gap between arrows as the character descended, more arrows shot shows that the bow is faster than a crossbow rather than equal amounts of arrows at the same attack speed.


  • 0

#22 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:05 PM

do the test again with same atk speed but without buffing adrenaline. for me 2 hits with bow in the air and 2 with xbow, both equipped on Destroyer ofc. Means: If you dont buff Adre both weaps have the same speed in air on Destroyer.


Edited by TurtleTuber, 03 April 2017 - 03:11 PM.

  • 0

#23 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:17 PM

Why do I need to it test again i know what adrenaline does, and by removing adrenaline the gaps are gonna be way too large to see a clear difference between the arrows. The test is fine as is clearly showing the difference in speeds among the two different types of weapons. I'm trying to justify that destroyers need the extra attack speed cap because crossbows are slower. It's like 2-3 arrows without adrenaline for both how are you gonna see which is faster with less equal amounts of arrows shot in the air. This test is to see there is a difference in things that scale with attackspeed, for example aas shootdown and chaincombo's


Edited by Apocryphos, 03 April 2017 - 03:57 PM.

  • 0

#24 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 08 April 2017 - 09:28 AM

Its quite simple tho..

 

As Coolsam already said: you cant compare Destroyers x-spam with Invokers or Summoners, since it is in no way as fluent as theirs. We all can agree, that Destroyer needs at least the 300% AS cap to be able to make good catches and to be able to compete with the other classes.

 

As I already said, Destroyer cant abuse that x-spam so much as Invoker / Summoner and its also not their primary DMG skill.

 

Putting Destroyers x-spam DPS at the same level as Invokers and Summoners is just wrong and i doubt that Destroyer will make alot more DMG x-spam wise with 30% AS more.

 

So to sum it up, there are way more reasons to raise the cap for Destroyers than reasons against it. I cant see anyone here whos defenitely against a cap raise for Destroyer nor anyone who brought any good arguments up against a cap raise.

 


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users