23 replies to this topic

[Popcorn]

Hello Dragon Saga Friends!

 

In the patch notes the player Apocryphos posted the following idea/suggestion:

 

 

 

Here's an idea let player's move around in flashbang(like a 4 second silence), But change fire grenade to stun grenade, this way the flight path is similar to h.e grenade, It won't hurt the class because the skill is superseded by N2 Ammunition. (also please be a no hit stun, so it still bypasses twin block and same duration's and cooldowns)

 

Please tell us what you think about it (this is no discussion about the flash bang white screen effect, posts discussing the white screen effect of flash bang will be removed without further notice).

 

Please keep the discussion clean. Thank you.

 

[Onyzer]

I support this idea. Then we will have more diversity and an use for the another grenade. Though, will the stun of Stun Grenade be 4s as Flash Bang would have been ?

 

EDIT : Is some AoE, which sounds fair for grenades, possible ?

Edited by Onyzer, 24 August 2017 - 11:01 PM.

[Agitodesu]

That is perfectly fine, that would be called a buff and players would appreciate that. Although the flashbang wording seems confusing although I know it's along the lines of Flashbang=Silence, but will that resolve the lagwalk since everything got changed?

I'd still like the 3 at level 1 and 4 at level 5 to be applied.

Edited by Agitodesu, 24 August 2017 - 11:34 PM.

[easykill1215]

Good idea. Only one problem if it's changed like that then the chance people will use it will be low or not using at all. I only see the use of silence Flashbang is after combo ends so people can't counter you after you finish your combo? You can't start combo with it or also can't use it as a bridge between combo. The animation to use it is already around 1s. If you guys have any other ideas how we can use silence Flashbang besides using it at the end of the combo then I would like to hear.

But I don't mind if Flashbang becomes that useless as long as there's another grenade that can do what Flashbang in the past supposed to do (enemy can't move or attack for 4 seconds) and in this case it's the fire grenade.

I also support Agitodesu's idea to let the stun duration be low at skill lv1 and higher when we upgrade it so people would upgrade it and not only keep it at lv1 but the final duration should be 4s. It can be 3s at lv1 and 0.25s per level or also 2s at lv1 and 0.5s extra per higher level.

Thanks for actually want to make it better.

[Onyzer]

The silence can be something useful in crowded PvP.

[zekiel6]

wondering if the boost will be too strong but we can definitely try it out. only problem that i see is the low cooldown at H.E grenade. It can literally be spammed at level ten. i am not sure if three seconds or four seconds are the better way to go with if H.E grenade gets the stun effect because it range is way bigger.

[Apocryphos]

The changes would be flashbang is just a white screen for the players hit by it they will be able to move around freely but be unable to cast anything. Fire grenade will be changed to stun grenade this way it will follow a proper flight path and detonate on contact or on the floor. Details regarding stun grenade:should stun without damage[to go through block not absolutely neccessary],duration I would be fine with 4s and a 10s cd like old flashbang. Ircc there are higher levels of fire grenade these higher levels could reduce cooldown to down from 10s to 8s? Potentially additional grenades thrown at once?Opinions?

Edited by Apocryphos, 25 August 2017 - 01:08 AM.

[easykill1215]

wondering if the boost will be too strong but we can definitely try it out. only problem that i see is the low cooldown at H.E grenade. It can literally be spammed at level ten. i am not sure if three seconds or four seconds are the better way to go with if H.E grenade gets the stun effect because it range is way bigger.

First of all we are not talking about changing or adding stun effect to H.E grenade. We are talking about the fire grenade that has burn status.

Second, I don't see why this is a "boost" and if this "boost" will be too strong if the grenade has 4 seconds stun. This change is about to fix the Flashbang issue and it was always like that but just not working (enemy can't move or attack for 4s). Also not talking about the animation of the skill which is around 1s so you would actually only have 3s to do something to enemy. To compare with other cc from other classes it's also nothing. Not easy to land, single target not aoe, can rarely catch or open combo with it so it's mostly used as a bridge between combos. If you think it's OP to let us have something we supposed to have all the time then you can also increase the cooldown of it to 10 or 12s so people will have a penalty if they try to catch people/open combo with it and miss.

[Precrush]

So would the player be blinded (I mean the white screen) by this version of flash bang or would it be just a silence? Either way as long as there are no issues with it why not. If it's just a 4 second silence then I'd add a solid damage buff to make the skill a bit more useful. That's because if it ends up being useless then there will have been no sense in the change since it will have only switched the useless skills around if that makes sense.

Stun granade is a good idea in my opinion, it's only a shame that we've never had proper dot effects.

Overall I'm very indifferent on this whole thing, but I'm sure destroyers would enjoy having two useful cc effects.

[Apocryphos]

Actually just to double check I haven't used fire grenade in forever but does it actually follow a proper flight path when thrown from the air? Or am i remembering it wrong...

[Fliederduft78]

Well, honestly a Flashbang does come with some sort of silence effect (4s) in most MMORPG games. So I personally don't have a problem with that possibility. I don't see any problems adding the stun (4 sec) later on to the Fire Grenade skill instead either- once Flashbang is properly working with the 4 sec stun. The destroyers of the game would end up with two "stopping skills" instead of one and as far as I remember this is exactly what the class is missing.
I'm all for increasing stun (or silence in the future, or both) duration, would make sense. I personally would start with 2 secs at level 1 and go up 0,5 sec each skill level, so it ends up with 4 seconds at skill level 5. But I guess whatever you pick is fine as long as it is 4 seconds at skill level 5.

 

 

(I assume both Flashbang versions (the 4sec stun and the suggested 4 sec silence effect) would come without the broken whitescreen script, because that is what is causing all the trouble. At least that is how I understood it by reading Poppie's explanation in the patch notes thread.)

[GogAcc]

The community isn't that complicated, just give us a working flashbang if it costs that flashy white animation that was buggy as hell and hurting our eyes.

[Onyzer]

It may sound too much, but what about an AoE effect on the Stun Grenade ? Because currently the Flash Bang's description says you can hit up to 7 enemies at Lv.5 but it works only on one person. 

[easykill1215]

Maybe a small aoe wouldn't be too much? Like half radius of barbarian skill? It's small enough and feel more legit as a grenade

[testg]

Maybe a small aoe wouldn't be too much? Like half radius of barbarian skill? It's small enough and feel more legit as a grenade

The idea is fine already fire grenade as stun is better than fb as stun. For larger aoe for fg stun is arguable since it can be op as midair cc. Is important not to be greedy.

[Apocryphos]

Sad new's after testing fire grenade's flight path, It also follows the poor flashbang path (This is probably due to the skill being originally designed for ground use only, but when they changed it to be usable in the air they didn't change the path)

 
So, Is it possible to swap the animations of skills? Can popcorn change Fire Grenade to H.E Grenade's Animation?
This would solve the aoe problem since there'd be 3 grenades thrown, and the flight path.

Edited by Apocryphos, 25 August 2017 - 09:46 AM.

[testg]

Sad new's after testing fire grenade's flight path, It also follows the poor flashbang path (This is probably due to the skill being originally designed for ground use only, but when they changed it to be usable in the air they didn't change the path)


So, Is it possible to swap the animations of skills? Can popcorn change Fire Grenade to H.E Grenade's Animation?
This would solve the aoe problem since there'd be 3 grenades thrown, and the flight path.

He grenade is the best grenade for it range if possible this is a good option to exchange, keep in mind the appropriate cd for this midair cc skill if its fair or no.

[Popcorn]

Changing the animations is not possible.

 

[easykill1215]

At least the fire grenade would hit the ground and not explode in mid-air or? I personally want the flight part to be like this or people will complain how OP it is again after they got grenade into their face from that far distance xD

[Apocryphos]

Well I'm a little dumbfounded on what to think of atm, but part of me want's option 2 or 3 now since originally I thought fire grenade followed h.e grenade flight path, another part want's to change H.E Grenade to Stun Grenade, but losing a low cooldown poke would kinda hurt.
 

At least the fire grenade would hit the ground and not explode in mid-air or?

It only looks like it hits the floor, it doesn't hit ground if thrown in the air.

Edited by Apocryphos, 25 August 2017 - 10:48 AM.

[easykill1215]

H.E grenade is currently actually not that good, in pve it has no use, in pvp it gives low dmg and yeah maybe u can use it as a poke to take around 3k hp of enemy which means around 2-3% hp. I don't even use it so fine by me if you change H.E grenade to stun grenade with cooldown of 10-12s instead of fire grenade. Just saying.
All current options including this fire or H.E grenade change to stun grenade are fine by me. Only care that at the end we will have a grenade which makes enemy not moving or attacking for 4s

Edited by easykill1215, 25 August 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[Agitodesu]

why are all your grenades thrown in the air instead from the ground?

[Apocryphos]

To show there flight path, as for the gif above it simply shows the animation doesn't match the hitbox(fire on the floor) but does no damage.

[Onyzer]

I'm against a change on H.E. Grenade, I use it a lot and it's really effective and working properly.