71 replies to this topic

[Gabrielr04]

As the title says, it's SFB the best option to card them on? Wouldn't a decent Vicious Staff/Rod be better for it, just curious about this.

[Kusanagisama]

Vicious only have one slot. And no enchant boost your damage by 60%... So, yes, only SFB, and still it might not be optimal unless we receive another item which bypasses at least 20% MDEF and occupies the ACC or Shadow Gears slots. It would be nice if they introduced a nerfed version of tempest sets with the bonus for +25 being +20% bypass instead of 100%.

[LordYggdrasill]

In theory a highly specialized +10 Vicious Mind Rod/Staff with 1 x True KK Card can be as good as +10 Sunflower Boy with 2 x True KK Card, I am using +10 here since True KK Card is at full effect only at +10 or above. Consider against Normal and Formless Monsters, the damage increases from VM Rod/Staff and SFB for Crimson Rock are shown below

 

VM Rod/Staff with 1 x True KK Card: (100% + 60%) x (100% + 20%) x (100% + 20%) - 100% = 130.4%

SFB with 2 x True KK Card: (100% + 60% + 60%) x (1 + 5%) - 100% = 131%

 

As you see, they are near identical. For VM Rod/Staff, the drawback is that they are highly specialized, against other mobs you only get 60% increase instead of 130.4% from the calculation. The benefit is that the 20% increase for element/race will work even if you are not using Crimson Rock, so you are free to try Earth Strain, Chain Lightning and Soul Expansion. I would go with SFB here since the point of using True KK Card instead of MDEF bypass Cards is to increase Crimson Rock damage. You do make a point though that SFB with 2 x True KK Card isnt the optimal for a few circumstances, ie. MVP hunting. In this case, you are better off just using La'Cryma Set with Water Ball.

[Bohem]

assuming you get 100% MDEF bypass from OBMH and magician's glove, i would assume that 2x true kk in SFB is the best..

 

 

[Ashuckel]

a vicious can complement the mdef pierce of Magician Glove + OBMH, making it BiS in various cases, even without another slot

[Kusanagisama]

Also, this is the most generic card that warlocks ever got, makes no sense to use them in a specialized weapon.

[Bohem]

is CR spammable after using +10 bio5 hat? if so, crimson rod with 50% race MDEF ignore with 1x true KK might work out as well in terms of DPS ?

[LordYggdrasill]

Anything with longer than 2s cast delay/cooldown time is unspammable to me, and Crimson Rock still has 3s cooldown even if you upgrade Bio 5 hat to +10.

[Nirvanna21]

Instead of theory crafting, just use this.

 

CR Calc

[Bohem]

oh yeah... i did not do my homework of checking actual cooldown.. oh well, my bad.

[Mulder1]

Hmmm...

 

I think we need to define first the scenarios where you would be using Crimson rock first.

 

1. WoE -> A good complement after Comet/TV release but won't be enough to use SFB 2/ 2 True KK instead of +14 GSoD.

2. PvM -> Do you really need 100% mdef against normal mobs?? SFB w/ 2 True KK + Magician's Glove wouldn't be enough?

                 YES: Use +14 OBMH for 88% mdef piercing and call it the day?

                 NO: SFB w/ 2 True KK > Vicious Staff/Rod w/ 1 True KK > SoD w/1 True KK??

 

3. MvP -> We need 100% mdef piercing so Lacryma / porocca shoes or Crimson rod / magician's glove combo would be enough. Plus we TV / Water Ball is more efficient right?

[LordYggdrasill]

Hmmm...

 

I think we need to define first the scenarios where you would be using Crimson rock first.

 

1. WoE -> A good complement after Comet/TV release but won't be enough to use SFB 2/ 2 True KK instead of +14 GSoD.

2. PvM -> Do you really need 100% mdef against normal mobs?? SFB w/ 2 True KK + Magician's Glove wouldn't be enough?

                 YES: Use +14 OBMH for 88% mdef piercing and call it the day?

                 NO: SFB w/ 2 True KK > Vicious Staff/Rod w/ 1 True KK > SoD w/1 True KK??

 

3. MvP -> We need 100% mdef piercing so Lacryma / porocca shoes or Crimson rod / magician's glove combo would be enough. Plus we TV / Water Ball is more efficient right?

 

I think SFB with 2 x True KK Card is the best with PVM minus a few circumstances that you dont want to use Crimson Rock, while La'Cryma Set is still the king when it comes to MVP thanks to Water Ball.
 

[Gabrielr04]

Hmmm...

 

I think we need to define first the scenarios where you would be using Crimson rock first.

 

1. WoE -> A good complement after Comet/TV release but won't be enough to use SFB 2/ 2 True KK instead of +14 GSoD.

2. PvM -> Do you really need 100% mdef against normal mobs?? SFB w/ 2 True KK + Magician's Glove wouldn't be enough?

                 YES: Use +14 OBMH for 88% mdef piercing and call it the day?

                 NO: SFB w/ 2 True KK > Vicious Staff/Rod w/ 1 True KK > SoD w/1 True KK??

 

3. MvP -> We need 100% mdef piercing so Lacryma / porocca shoes or Crimson rod / magician's glove combo would be enough. Plus we TV / Water Ball is more efficient right?

Very accurate, thanks for all your comments guys

[Bohem]

i wish i had 100 true kk card to test some stuff...

 

by the way, quick question; has anyone tried using COMET in OGH instances second level? does it kill stuff eaiser ?

 

I am getting all sorts of cancer everytime i get to second floor with all those elemental resistant mobs..

[LordYggdrasill]

i wish i had 100 true kk card to test some stuff...

by the way, quick question; has anyone tried using COMET in OGH instances second level? does it kill stuff eaiser ?

I am getting all sorts of cancer everytime i get to second floor with all those elemental resistant mobs..

Lol 100 True KK card. I've been trying to buy it for days and haven't even seen anyone willing to sell at any prices so far. Strangely enough other bio 5 cards like True Cecil Damon Card are abundant on Ragi.al. I am afraid that for most ppls, even getting 1 True KK card is a wild dream.

I tried using Comet and at least 2-3 shots are needed to kill Corrupted Abysmal Knight and Bloody Knights. You are better off using Lacryma Set as deluge + waterball is OHKO, although it is single target spell. I wonder if anyone tried Drain Life on AK and BK, I feel even this is a better option than Comet.

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 06 October 2017 - 07:58 AM.

[Ashuckel]

dont use lacryma. It is lv3 weapon, so you only reap 2/3 of the card effect. Try to seek after a general race mdef bypass Vicious, something like Normal Monsters bypass, or Boss monster bypass, and pair it with OBMH. You end up with much more matk, full effect of the card, full bypass and an extra % mod.

[Bohem]

aren';t they all demon? 

[Ashuckel]

demon/undead

[PervySageMarty]

Stop talking about sunflower boys you perverts.

[Bohem]

Gabrielr04 started it.

[NekoCaptainNoob]

Hmmm...

 

I think we need to define first the scenarios where you would be using Crimson rock first.

 

1. WoE -> A good complement after Comet/TV release but won't be enough to use SFB 2/ 2 True KK instead of +14 GSoD.

2. PvM -> Do you really need 100% mdef against normal mobs?? SFB w/ 2 True KK + Magician's Glove wouldn't be enough?

                 YES: Use +14 OBMH for 88% mdef piercing and call it the day?

                 NO: SFB w/ 2 True KK > Vicious Staff/Rod w/ 1 True KK > SoD w/1 True KK??

 

3. MvP -> We need 100% mdef piercing so Lacryma / porocca shoes or Crimson rod / magician's glove combo would be enough. Plus we TV / Water Ball is more efficient right?

 

If choosing staff for PVM with CR only  that's worth for true KK card

 

SFB 2x True KK > VM Staff Rod 1x True KK >  SOD 1x True KK    yep, that's right 

 

but if more detail explain

 

SFB 2x True KK = Yep , it's the best staff for using CR  no doubt  no more explain 

           If you want to be a powerful Glass Cannon  this one is the best choice 

 

--------   

 

VM Staff 1x True KK =  Second best staff  with  Magic dmg / Bypass on some races enchants

(Maybe should get  Dmg / Bypass on  Formless because best place to solo leveling from 150-175 is NCT)

 

But dmg still too far from SFB 2x True KK

 

VM Rod 1x True KK =  Lower dmg than VM Staff  but still fine ,  it's one handed so if you want to wear a shield for survivability  this one is the best one-handed staff that worth enough for true KK card

 

--------

 

SOD Spell 4-4 at least   1x True KK =  Lowest Lv. Requirement  , only Lv.80 as HW   compare to the other Lv.4 Rod/Staff which have high MATK and have at least 1 slot for carding  

 

If you're planning to create , leveling  another WL in your account 

after your main WL reach max level  maybe this one is the best choice 

 

 But....  only thing that's I hate SOD  is the auto cast JT

sometimes auto cast JT will eat your MA that's you prepare for Amped CR  :<

 

--------

 

Another Choices for Lv.4 Slotted Rod / Staff  

 

How about Normal / Empowered Crimson Staff  

 

Normal   230 MATK  2 slots  +40% Fire dmg if wear  Mora set    Req: Lv. 100

 

(It would be waste if tested Normal with 2x True KK in live server  :< ) 

 

Empowered   270 MATK  1 slot  +60% Fire dmg if wear Mora set   Req: Lv. 130

 

 

 

 if anyone test on Sakray 

 

 I want to see someone test 

normal Mora Crimson Staff with 2x True KK (120% CR dmg) + Mora crimson set  (40% fire magic dmg)

 

compare to Empowered  with 1x True KK (60% CR dmg) + Mora Crimson set  (60% fire magic dmg)

 

even Normal version have only 230 MATK  less than Empowered by 50

 but it's have more slot than Empowered version  and Require only Lv.100  

 

Empowered 1x True KK or Normal 2x True KK ? which one will be more powerful ?    

both can be on par with SFB 2x True KK or not ?  

 

 

 

Want to see the test like 

 

+10 Normal  [2x true KK]  /  +10 Empowered [1x true KK]  +  Mora set  

 

+10 SFB [2x True KK] with some gears that's can be tested on Sakray

  (Armor , Shoes , Accessory   such as  Flat Robe , Temp Int  with some cards / enchants that's boost your dmg  etc.)

 

test without any MVP cards involved  because most players cannot afford to MVP cards , Gods

just need at least high end gear 

 

Edited by NekoCaptainNoob, 05 October 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[LordYggdrasill]

+10 SFB [2x True KK] with some gears that's can be tested on Sakray

  (Armor , Shoes , Accessory   such as  Flat Robe , Temp Int  with some cards / enchants that's boost your dmg  etc.)

 

I've done tests on +10 SFB with 2x True KK Cards. Not on Sakray though, it is on Chaos live server. You can check out my post from this thread if interested:

 

https://forums.warpp...cter/?p=2716832

 

My Gears:

+13 OBMH of Fire

Sunglasses of Fire

Mob Scarf

+13 Flattery Robe INT 6

+10 Double Crimson SFB

+13 Flame FAW Spell 19

+12 Temporal Int Boots of Sorcery

Psychic Magicians Gloves

Healing Chambered RWC 2012 Pendant

 

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 05 October 2017 - 10:36 AM.

[Kusanagisama]

Just so you know, the MDEF Threshold for VM Rod (with bypass to the specific race and no elemental enchant) with a single TKK Card to be better than a SFB with 2 TKK Cards is somewhere around 225.

 

Do an Air Fortress Replay with your staff and show us, Yggdrasil!

[LordYggdrasill]

Just so you know, the MDEF Threshold for VM Rod (with bypass to the specific race and no elemental enchant) with a single TKK Card to be better than a SFB with 2 TKK Cards is somewhere around 225.

 

Do an Air Fortress Replay with your staff and show us, Yggdrasil!

 

Umm is this MDEF threshold assumes usage of OBMH or Bio 5 Hat? I think the result can be quite different, it varies even with the upgrade level of OBMH.

 

Sure I will try to record it next time I do it, last time I did it I needed Mystic Amplification to OHKO Mobs though. Without Amp it hit around 380-390k, leaving around 10-20k HP left for each mob.

 

 

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 05 October 2017 - 11:46 AM.

[Kusanagisama]

+12 OBMH of Fire, +12 Flame FAW.

 

That's interesting. I was dealing 300K damage with my Disruptor VM Rod yesterday. Finish them with Soul Expansion.