39 replies to this topic

[TamarisART]

Heya guys,

 

i'm preparing my soul for the crusader release and cannot stop thinking about them.

I'd like to have a decent GC Crusi who can solo Castle 2 without troubles.

 

My current Equipement is this :

 

Poo Poo Hat

Evil Wing Ears

Angry Snarl

+10 Flamberge (2x Zipper Bear)

+9 Cranial Buckler

+9 Chain Mail of Wildcat

+7 Immune Pauldron

+9 Firelock Greaves

Teleport Belt

Since The Sign will not add damage to GC i'd swap it to a Ring with Mantis Card or a Yoyo Card 

 

Stats at level 99 without any status points left :

 

STR 50

INT 99

DEX 49

VIT 60

LUK 1

AGI 1

 

Any suggestions to improve my build?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by TamarisART, 30 October 2017 - 07:35 PM.

[Hrishi]

Since The Sign will not add damage to GC i'd swap it to a Ring with Mantis Card or a Yoyo Card 

 

The Sign does add damage to GC under renewal mechanics.

[TamarisART]

You're right, i just tested it on a calculator... lol!

 

But a Ring with Mantis card still has a higher damage

 

 

[Hrishi]

Regarding your build, I'd suggest going 99 INT is a waste of points, since there are no bonuses to achieving specific thresholds of MATK. The return on investment of stat points that high is quite poor since you only get 1.5 MATK per INT. Those points can be better spent elsewhere.

[TamarisART]

I think you're right, it makes no difference if i still need 2 GCs for a monster, doesn't matter if i'm at 80 or 99 int.

[Ashuckel]

GC scales better with ATK than MATK on renewal (status atk*2, str scaling on weapon atk, cards, etc.)

[TamarisART]

How much int would you suggest then?

[Ashuckel]

Only for cast time. Basically whenever 2 points of INT cost less/same as 1 of dex.

[TamarisART]

So maxing str is the better option?

[Ashuckel]

dont max stats in renewal mechanics, its a waste

[TamarisART]

Yeah, i mean like 90 str, i will play a little with the calculator

[Blueness]

You still want INT for regen unless you're going to live off of blue potions.

GC scales better with ATK than MATK on renewal (status atk*2, str scaling on weapon atk, cards, etc.)

Excellent. I was going to go do some testing but you saved me the trouble.

Edited by Blueness, 31 October 2017 - 07:44 AM.

[Ashuckel]

The skill is simply (ATK+MATK) * Skill%

The fact is that the game itself makes it much easier to scale atk than matk.

[Navy]

Hey Ash you're pretty good at figuring out the math, and i don't seem to quite get it. I'm on renewal itself testing with my Paly (since it should be same mechanic) and it doesn't seem to add up, see screen shot. It's doing 637 naked on poring, with 37 attack and 185 mag atk (he was already that way from when i stop playing)

 

 

 

[Ashuckel]

skill lvl used?

[Navy]

It was level 10

[ThomasBeraud]

I have done some testing in Sakray, but I don't really know if the formulas for that server are close to ours here in RE:Start. I got the following results:

 

 

 

MONSTER KILLED: Raydric (Re-stats)

Level 115, Demi-Human, Shadow-2 (150% damage taken from Holy), Large, 89 DEF, 15 MDEF

 

In comparison: Normal Raydric 

Level 52, Demi-Human, Shadow-2, Large, 40 DEF, 15 MDEF

 

Skill used: Grand Cross level 10

Observation: In all cases, the characters had Sword Mastery at level 10. (+40 ATK)

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

1st Character: Crusader 95/50

STR: 98+7         INT: 50+6         DEX: 35+3         VIT: 60+7         AGI: 1+2         LUK: 1+5

 

   1. With a +0 Flamberge: 40 data points

• ATK: 138+150 (=288)
• MATK: 116+0 (=116)
• ATK+MATK: 404
• Average Damage (per wave): 2660.45
• Standard Deviation: 53.87

   2. With a +14 Flamberge: 39 data points

• ATK: 138+220 (=358)
• MATK: 116+70 (=186)
• ATK+MATK: 544
• Average Damage (per wave): 3691.67
• Standard Deviation: 163.54

   3. With a +0 Haedonggum: 39 data points

• ATK: 138+120 (=258)
• MATK: 120+0 (=120)
• ATK+MATK: 378
• Average Damage (per wave): 2492.45
• Standard Deviation: 41.24

   4. With a +0 Diligent Haedonggum: 15 data points (Diligent = 1 Zipper Bear Card)

• ATK: 138+150 (=288)
• MATK: 120+0 (=120)
• ATK+MATK: 408
• Average Damage (per wave): 2655.20
• Standard Deviation: 41.75

  5. Without any weapon: 8 data points

• ATK: 138+0 (=138)
• MATK: 116+0 (=116)
• ATK+MATK: 254
• Average Damage (per wave): 1698.00
• Standard Deviation: 0

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

2nd Character: Crusader 95/50

STR: 50+7         INT: 98+6         DEX: 35+3         VIT: 60+7         AGI: 1+2         LUK: 1+5

 

   1. With a +0 Flamberge: 31 data points

• ATK: 90+150 (=240)
• MATK: 188+0 (=188)
• ATK+MATK: 428
• Average Damage (per wave): 2393.03
• Standard Deviation: 57.42

   2. With a +14 Flamberge: 33 data points

• ATK: 90+220 (=310)
• MATK: 188+70 (=258)
• ATK+MATK: 568
• Average Damage (per wave): 3386.58
• Standard Deviation: 168.64

   3. With a +0 Haedonggum: 32 data points

• ATK: 90+120 (=210)
• MATK: 192+0 (=192)
• ATK+MATK: 402
• Average Damage (per wave): 2232.16
• Standard Deviation: 49.31

   4. With a +0 Diligent Haedonggum: 0 data point

• ATK: 138+120 (=258)
• MATK: 120+0 (=120)
• ATK+MATK: 408
• Average Damage (per wave): ?
• Standard Deviation: ?

  5. Without any weapon: 6 data points

• ATK: 90+0 (=90)
• MATK: 188+0 (=188)
• ATK+MATK: 278
• Average Damage (per wave): 1563.00
• Standard Deviation: 0

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Conclusions?

 

If the tests are valid for RE:Start, we can observe that the 98STR/50INT (High-STR) build showed a bit (around 10%) more damage against Raydric when compared to its 50STR/98INT (High-INT) counterpart. It is worth noting, however, that the monster in question has considerably more DEF than MDEF, which may have biased the results in favor of the High-INT build. In spite of that, High-STR still showed better results, which suggests High-STR indeed provides the player with more Grand Cross damage.

 

However, it is worth remembering the other benefits of those stats: INT provides more MDEF, Maximum SP and SP Regeneration, while STR provides a larger Weight Limit.

 

I wonder if the effects of LUK on ATK and MATK justify spending points in it at some point.

 

Thanks for reading. I would be glad to know your opinion about the above results and this topic.

 

[Creaitov]

Some very well done testing

 

Awesome. Thanks for the testing.

 

Considering luk gives 0,3 ATK and 0,3 MATK per point (0,6 total for GC) while int gives 1,5 MATK per point, it feels like you never should get luk imo, maybe only if you have so much str and int that the first 10 cheap points in luk are better point wise.

[Ashuckel]

luk gives status atk, wich is multiplied by 2 during damage calculation. It just depends on how many points it would cost for each point of luk vs points into str or int(remember that str also scales weapon base atk).

Also, if it follows the "general rule" of hybrid damage skills (atk+matk) like Acid Terror, Soul Destroyer, Acid Bomb, Varetyr Spear, etc it should treat all hard def/mdef as soft, wich technically means it ignores it. 


It's also worth noting that, the skill has damage coming from both atk and matk, and while the skill deals Holy damage, actually the magical part is Holy while the physical part depends on your weapon element. Wich is why on the 2nd scenario despite having a much lower atk+matk (you forgot to multiply status attack by 2 ), since raydric is Shadow element he takes extra damage from the holy magical part, wich made the damage come up pretty close to the physical counterpart.

Edited by Ashuckel, 03 November 2017 - 02:41 PM.

[Creaitov]

Just noticed the tests were done with sword mastery lv10, and there was no test with sword mastery lv0. Does this skill affect the damage? 

[Ashuckel]

masteries give you Mastery Attack, wich is a component of your total attack. If you are using the correspondent weapon, it will give you a slight boost. Note, SLIGHT boost. Mastery attack isnt affected by things such as Hydra, Skel Worker, etc. The only things that will "scale" it are boosts directly to the skill damage or ranged damage/crit damage% when aplicable.

[Artegas]

i have 2 questions regarding Grand cross.

 

1. Will racial dmg cards such as Hydra increase GC dmg or would atk cards be better.

 

2. About the stat Vit. howmuch is recommend for a GC build.

players ingame tell me high vit contradicts with the hp penalty on the skill.

should 60 or 70 be enough? or even lower

Edited by Artegas, 05 November 2017 - 02:28 PM.

[Ashuckel]

1. These cards increasw you ATK, so yes.

2. GC drains a percentage of your total hp per use, getting more max hp means you "take more damage" but its the same percentage being the HP pool low or high, so just grab a good HP to face the mobs.

[Artegas]

But regarding the cards. I recently obtained a +7 Flamberge[2]

I know the skill GC is greatly effected by ATK

So i'm in doubt if Double Hydra will be better, or flat out ATK cards such as Andre/Zipper. for the skill

(I'm planning to farm Raydrics/Niff/Anubis mainly)

 

[Ashuckel]

+7 Flamberge has 185~201 atk, not counting the str bonus.
20% of that is already higher than any flat atk card.