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DEATH SNATCH STUN RATE AND ALTERNATIVES


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#1 5398161108051801410

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 02:30 AM

can u please increase death snatch stun rate when its 5/5. we DONT need 100% stun , but i think it needs higher stun rate. from how it is right now. same rate with rocket punch would be better :D or JUST add alternate effect IF STUN FAILS :

Alternate effect : IF STUN FAILS

Option 1 : enemy gets 100% silence unable to use skill or attack for number seconds ( this will prevent us from turning death snatch into a suicidal skill for user )

Option 2: enemy gets Internal bleeding + slow of movement speed / attack speed for number of seconds ( bleeding = percentage of enemy HP, slowing AS/MS probably top notch decrease rate 70-80% of total AS/MS ) 

Option 3: both option 1 and 2 ( shorter time and rate)

Option 4: GOD DEATH SNATCH if stun fails..... it means your DEAD... ( bow ) death snatch... hehehe 

Note: OPTION 4 ( im just kidding )


 


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#2 Kaiwindx

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:12 AM

The skill kinda buggy, the stun is delay, player can still walk around after getting snatched and suddenly get stun after a second, same thing with sentinel's wire action. It's not a suicidal skill for 1v1 PvP, for group PvP like BSQ almost many skill overlord has are kinda suicidal since none of their skill have super armor and the only usable skills on those situation are just spawning bears, slash and stumblebum. Knockup skill will just ruin your team's combo and wyvern/storm blade will limit your mobility and making you get caught easily. The alternative effect would be op consider lvl5 skill has pretty low cooldown.
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#3 5398161108051801410

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:12 AM

The skill kinda buggy, the stun is delay, player can still walk around after getting snatched and suddenly get stun after a second, same thing with sentinel's wire action. It's not a suicidal skill for 1v1 PvP, for group PvP like BSQ almost many skill overlord has are kinda suicidal since none of their skill have super armor and the only usable skills on those situation are just spawning bears, slash and stumblebum. Knockup skill will just ruin your team's combo and wyvern/storm blade will limit your mobility and making you get caught easily. The alternative effect would be op consider lvl5 skill has pretty low cooldown.

i think they can adjust the cooldown after they add alternatives. i think they should also fix the bug of this. fixing the stun rate is enought and delay.. i just wanna make the skill more interesting hehe


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#4 Kaiwindx

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 08:30 AM

It's still interesting and fun to use, u can use death snatch after u cutdown and grab enemy, or grab player who get knocked by incoming bear when they jumping around, the stun rate still OK I guess, I once PvP with someone and was able to stun him 3 times in a row
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#5 Vossel

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 08:59 AM

my fav combo with death snatch is xxzzx into deathsnatch, since the slide knocks up and then you can grab them. It is fun to use but if you use death snatch against a skilled player he will just cc you after you grabbed them. The description says it grabs the enemy infront of you and stuns it, i think it should stun the enemy by 100% but the cooldown on 5/5 is really low with 5 seconds so if you increase the stunrate to 100% increase the cooldown to at least 10-15 seconds if not 20 seconds.

The delay is actually not that of a problem since a stun is a stun and as long as its not a ninja using sleep on you your stun comes after their and you prolly will be free from their cc before they are free from yours.

 


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#6 Bustincaps

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 08:22 PM

Well you can't technically "catch" with it, so I don't see any harm in 100% stun rate like the description suggests... even with it having a fairly low cooldown. Someone above mentions that you can use it after your bear or after a cutdown, but not without some difficulty. Out of all catching methods for Overlord, these 2 are some of the more advanced/difficult methods. For that reason, I don't see any harm in fixing this skill; I've suggested it multiple times already. The class is heavily reliant on flinches and knockdowns, which in today's superarmor meta is obviously ineffective. This is the reason you don't see many (or ANY, really... maybe like 1 or 2 that are still active) geared Overlords running around and why EW guilds have no interest in recruiting them.

 

Lastly, I disagree with adding any type of debuff or alternate effect to this skill. Its purpose is as an aerial stun and it would make way more sense just to fix it so it actually stuns rather than make it OP by adding bleeds or MS/AS debuffs. We all hate certain classes because they have debuffs like this and it's mega OP, so why add another class to the mix? The class needs a lot of buffing/fixing, but even as someone who plays it often, I don't think turning it into the new Invo mud is the solution. I'm surprised no one has mentioned adding superarmor to Gust Slash, Deathbound, or anything like that yet. Whirlwind could even be made stationary, given more hits, and apply a knockdown to make it similar to the 2nd axe brother's spinning attack.


Edited by Bustincaps, 02 November 2017 - 08:26 PM.

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#7 Agitodesu

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 08:41 PM

I only agree with boosting the stun rate of death snatch and would help overlords help with ground combos in bsq/ew if someone accidentally or is doing an air combo/lock. Everything else is probably unnecessary if the stun rate buff is applied which everyone here currently agrees with.


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#8 5398161108051801410

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 03:11 AM

yea if the stun rate is better then alternative effect unnecessary. but if the stun rate remains the same i think we could consider some of the alternative option. 


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#9 5398161108051801410

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 03:13 AM

The skill kinda buggy, the stun is delay, player can still walk around after getting snatched and suddenly get stun after a second, same thing with sentinel's wire action. It's not a suicidal skill for 1v1 PvP, for group PvP like BSQ almost many skill overlord has are kinda suicidal since none of their skill have super armor and the only usable skills on those situation are just spawning bears, slash and stumblebum. Knockup skill will just ruin your team's combo and wyvern/storm blade will limit your mobility and making you get caught easily. The alternative effect would be op consider lvl5 skill has pretty low cooldown.

 

well as someone already mentioned the delay is some how an advantage. although the stun rate neeeds abit more :D


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#10 Bustincaps

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 02:22 PM

well as someone already mentioned the delay is some how an advantage. although the stun rate neeeds abit more :D

 

It really is never an advantage. If there were no delay, you wouldn't have to worry about whose CC will last longer... since they would have no opportunity to CC you in the first place. Also, this is only the case with CC. If they decide to cast up superarmor, you then have to combo around their superarmor. Honestly, the delay doesn't overly bother me... but the stun does. It would be nice to see a fix here.


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#11 Kaiwindx

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 06:26 PM

The description says nothing bout the stun rate at all, what if it's 75% at lvl5 already, or actually 20%, no idea. I once having stumblebum lvl1 which has 75% stun rate but I failed to stun someone 4 times in a row. It's just luck I guess.
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#12 easykill1215

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:00 AM

Many overlords attempt to release their full combo the 2nd time out again after they finished their combo and use death snatch to re-catch and don't care about that they are spamming because "I recatch you so I can repeat my combo". Meanwhile their combo is already painful with lots of high crit dmg per hit especially after they got the pvp dmg multiplier. If you compare, an overlord's combo is already even more painful than a destroyer's combo - the class you call OP with snipe xD. So by giving them higher stun rate, it may lead to unbalance in 1v1. Bsq would stay unaffected.
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#13 Vossel

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 03:56 AM

i would say every class can lock someone in PvP if they know how, even destroyer can just spam the chaincombo, using a lock in 1v1 has something to do with honor and not with a skill being usefull or not. Besides we need to rely on longer combo because we have higher cooldowns than the most classes do, besides to achive our high crit dmg in PvP we need to keep bloody roar active and buff annihilation as often as possible since bloody roar gives 60% ATK buff (30 sec cooldown and cost 1% hp each second) and annihilation gives 30% dmg for the next 5 hits (15 sec cooldown). Also are the hits of an Overlord not as fast as all the other classes. Especially the x spam classes are able to out dps overlord easily if they got element dmg.


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#14 easykill1215

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:58 AM

Did I talk about lock? Of course those Overlords wouldn't lock like repeating cc skills in their combo, but they do repeat the combo 2nd time if they recatch someone with death snatch and they think it's "legit" because it's a recatch  :heh: ​ well it wasn't a problem for me if they release their combo 2nd time because the stun rate of death snatch isn't high anyway. But if we make it high now, it will be the problem  :heh: 

 

The Overlords I'm talking about are all end-game full stacked.

 

The pro Overlords wouldn't keep bloody roar active also, they would only turn it on while releasing combo and turn it off after finishing it.


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#15 Bustincaps

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:56 PM

Did I talk about lock? Of course those Overlords wouldn't lock like repeating cc skills in their combo, but they do repeat the combo 2nd time if they recatch someone with death snatch and they think it's "legit" because it's a recatch  :heh: ​ well it wasn't a problem for me if they release their combo 2nd time because the stun rate of death snatch isn't high anyway. But if we make it high now, it will be the problem  :heh:

 

The Overlords I'm talking about are all end-game full stacked.

 

The pro Overlords wouldn't keep bloody roar active also, they would only turn it on while releasing combo and turn it off after finishing it.

 

You did talk about lock, actually, since what you described would be locking/spamming. I do understand your point but I agree mainly with Vossel's point.


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#16 easykill1215

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:08 PM

You did talk about lock, actually, since what you described would be locking/spamming. I do understand your point but I agree mainly with Vossel's point.


They do let me go after their 2ND combo finished so not really lock :Đ

So can you tell me what will you do after you finished all of your ground combo and then all of your air tornado combo and at the end catch with death snatch? Not repeating your combo? Then only x-spam a few times and release your enemy? :D then in my opinion boosting stun rate is unnecessary either way if you can't do anything after recatching with death snatch.
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#17 Vossel

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:50 AM

with this rate it is not reliable enough to use it in normal combos so the only usefull way is to use it after you have put out your entire combo


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#18 Bustincaps

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:24 AM

Exactly what Vossel mentioned...

 

It would be nice to be able to use the skill inside combos reliably rather than being limited to using it at the end, or even use it in combination with other skills as a catching tactic. Giving it a better stunrate could potentially help with the problem you mention, as well, since players would be more likely to use it in places other than after their tornados, where they are most likely to just repeat the combo. Regardless of this, performing a full combo then using snatch and repeating the combo is absolutely spamma pajama. Snatch is inescapable if used correctly after the tornados; it's not a recatch. Like mentioned before, spamming, locking, and generally unfair tactics anywhere outside of EW or BSQ depends completely on the player's respect for others and for fun competition. Every class can spamlock for full HP if they want. :S It's better to just relog if you're unlucky enough to get stuck in a room with someone who thinks Time Reverse + Sword Dance for full HP is fair/fun/respectable play, for example. XD


Edited by Bustincaps, 15 November 2017 - 11:27 AM.

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#19 Vossel

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:55 AM

so far Overlords doesnt really have the possibility to use a combination of air and ground combo, either you do the ground combo first and then the air combo or the air combo first and then the ground combo but for that you need to make sure to interrupt his safety jump mid air, so giving Death snatch a 100% stun rate will give Overlord way more possibilities to combo, but like i said it should get somekind of balance if it gets the 100% stun, so having a cooldown of at least 10 seconds would be fair in my opinion.

another suggestion i have, is that you leave the stun rate as it is now and maybe increase cooldown a bit but make the skill more smooth and make it so that the actor can move before the victim.

This way you can combo directly after the pull on the ground. My personall favor would be to make the skill smoother so we are not stuck on spot for such a time instead of increasing the stun rate.


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#20 easykill1215

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:12 PM

There are many many other classes that doesn't have the possibility to use the combination of air and ground combo at all tho. But letting the user move a bit earlier than the enemy that got pulled down won't be a too bad idea.


Plus I still don't understand why you guys would need to use that skill if it's not to start another combo? You still can release your full combo with every skills without using that death snatch, or?
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#21 Kaiwindx

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:13 PM

It's more fun and challenging to catch player in PvP with the combination of knocking and death snatch instead of running around throwing sword dance or using stumblebum of course
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#22 Precrush

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 07:16 AM

So the reason to ask for all of this to buff death snatch because it's fun while you guys are still totally fine without it?

I don't see a problem with that, do you?


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#23 easykill1215

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 07:17 AM

I don't see a problem with that, do you?

 

Phone's problem, it didn't send my whole message. Trying again now.


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#24 easykill1215

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 07:19 AM

It's more fun and challenging to catch player in PvP with the combination of knocking and death snatch instead of running around throwing sword dance or using stumblebum of course1

 

So the reason to ask for all of this to buff death snatch because it's fun while you guys are still totally fine without it? :p_omg:  and just like what you said if death snatch is buffed whether by increasing the stun rate to 100% or letting the user move sooner then it will lead to another problem that overlord will have another way to catch enemy :p_omg:  overlord is already a class with many ways to catch an enemy in 1v1 pvp. They currently have at least 5 ways to catch someone by using 1. Sword dance 2. Bear 3. Stumble 4. Gust Slash 5. Wyvern blade, meanwhile the most of other classes only has 1-3 ways to catch an enemy and besides overlord is not a weak class in 1v1 PvP especially after the dmg multiplier, they are a middle to strong class. So I don't think they need such a buff on death snatch to have another way to catch an enemy just "for fun" while they are totally fine without it. If you say you won't use death snatch to recatch and start another combo then you are fine without doing it at all too, or? :questionmark: 


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#25 Kaiwindx

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 08:30 AM

It is player's decision on how they wanted to play their character, u can have an overlord who catch normally with stumblebum, and then u can have an overlord who run around throwing sword dance or spam wyvern then run to wait for cooldown, just like archer who just running around spamming shootdown instead of catching with chaincombo. Overall Im fine with the skill without any buff or nerf, it's just the buggy behavior that the stun delays like wire action.

 

I still use the skill in PVE, like in Forest Glade chaos map involved jumping around and climbing ladders alot, I can cutdown and finish off the monster with death snatch instead of using bears, so I can keep the bears and use it on next monster wave. You do also use that on bosses that are stunned from groggy when they are knocked up, allow your spam x class teammate to deal damage on boss in case one of your teammate or you knockup the boss by mistake.

 

Usually if the skill is useless we probably just ignore and doesn't learn the skill at all, but there are some skill that useful in different situation even tho it's seems useless, like some destroyer use self bomber to escape from air combo even tho it's pretty unnecessary sometimes. Death snatch kinda holds the charm which the skill represent an Overlord.


Edited by Kaiwindx, 16 November 2017 - 08:43 AM.

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