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#1 PageupBR

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 09:24 AM

why remove the castle points? because this opens more doors for the bigger guilds to take more fortress (taking more chances out of the smaller guilds), because after the castle is safe this guild no longer needs to defend it and so use the last few minutes to attack the smaller guilds, so, if larger guilds defend the castles until the last minute would mean that these larger guilds would have fewer players available to attack the other fortresses and thus giving chance to the smaller guilds.

 

Example: a guild with 100 members active and have their castle gate opened, so they put  40 members to defend castle while just 60 attack another fortress, this remains very risky, once knowing that this guild with 100 players that is defending the castle can receive recall of several small guilds and thus taking her castle in the last minutes.

 

I want to hear everyone's opinion.


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#2 mscocca

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 09:35 AM

Hello PageupBR,

thank you for your continuous support to the game.

 

I will make sure to submit your suggestion on your behalf.

 

Thank you again,

See you in game!

:kis:


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#3 Meddric

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 03:24 PM

This is about Castle points for WOE right? 

 

RO2 WOE designed that way for reasons. Its not like some other Ragnarok Onlines where break emp is the owner.

 

Remove woe points makes it feel like the main golden emp is no different from forts green emp. (Except if break the map resets)

 

 


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#4 PageupBR

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 04:57 PM

This is about Castle points for WOE right? 

 

RO2 WOE designed that way for reasons. Its not like some other Ragnarok Onlines where break emp is the owner.

 

Remove woe points makes it feel like the main golden emp is no different from forts green emp. (Except if break the map resets)

no difference ? you already have a better tax administer, a better drop, a better buff, and you say there's no difference? its ok then, but lets make points system to fortress too then =) simple.

 

Can not you see that the game is not letting new guilds be born? the game has to give more help to the smaller guilds than to the bigger ones, they already have an advantage over the numbers, and you still want to give them more advantage?


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#5 adamch

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 11:29 PM

Dear Fellow Midgardians,

 

This post is dedicated to the newcomers, to the uninformed, misinformed and those who were not experienced enough to have gone through the years of revolution and changes of WoE.

 

*queue historical background music

A long long time ago when Rune Midgard was still young and new, where there was only Prontera Fortress Castle alone with no forts, competing guilds battle it out among each other for the glory of owning the only available thrown. Bases available had special buffs, where whoever dares to challenge the guardians protecting it, will be rewarded with WoE only skills as an added advantage to siege the main event, PF CASTLE.

 

It was a much savage period of time in history. Walls were painted in red, prides scattered all over pilled up corpses on the battlefield. Warriors who managed to reach the gates of the thrown having to evade and survive multiple challenges along the way were already seen as mighty. Above that, the very few that were beyond mighty pushed through the gates of hell and ventured into the hall of fame. The bravest and strongest of guild of the day gets the Emperium and ends the war. Proudly announcing to the whole realm that they are the one and only who made it.

 

*in a much less serious tone

And so thats what the developer initially intended WoE was gonna be like. With this old system in place, WoE did not last a whole hour depending on how fast the castle got captured. There was an instance where WoE ended within the first 5 mins of commencement of the war due to a player's ability to teleport into the castle and 1 Hit KOed the Emperium. There were also too many completing guilds with only 1 properties. Therefore Gravity devised a new system where they introduced forts and the point system to make WoE more interesting that will last a full hour of fun and excitement. Guilds will have more opportunities and chances to attack and conquer the castle while at the same time have the options to go for available new forts.

 

The point system allows WoE to last a full hour and prevents anyone with special means to be able to get the castle without needing to defend it entirely. It requires the castle owner to be able to siege it successfully and defend it at the same time. It promotes the utilization of strategy and allocation sense of timing during woe to make it more meaningful and interesting. It is also a mechanism that provides time and space of more opportunities for other guilds to secure forts and setup defense as the prevailing castle owner have to defend its property for points purposes. 

 

If there is a chance where the point system is to be removed from WoE, this is what's gonna happen. The well to do guilds gonna go on a genocide slaughter fest for the first 50 mins of WoE, killing and flat-lining all others within its path without having to strategize any sort of defensive measures. Once they have obtained their satisfaction of bloodthrist desires and have forts in hand, they can just storm into the castle to capture it before WoE ends. All is well as long as you have the firepower to do it. There is no need for drawing boards, raid formation, defensive setup and pre-WoE preparation. Just pressing buttons and be merry.

 

I'm not for or against such changes, because ultimately the guild that puts in the work and preparation to equip themselves with the right tools and mentality will prevails regardless of the environment. Ragnarok Online 2 is not a game where everyone gets the same privilege without needing to put in the extra effort. Asking the publisher to make amendment to the system in order to avoid the hardship and challenges of the game is just downplaying the achievements u strive for. It's certainly dont look good advocating on something u might not have think it through and knowing the consequences of it. There is nothing groundbreaking about all these recycled suggestions. 

 

Identify and address the actual problems which all of us are facing regardless of guild, race and region. Something server wide that not only affects the PvP Community. That will be something worth standing up for.


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#6 PageupBR

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 12:03 AM

Dear Fellow Midgardians,

 

This post is dedicated to the newcomers, to the uninformed, misinformed and those who were not experienced enough to have gone through the years of revolution and changes of WoE.

 

*queue historical background music

A long long time ago when Rune Midgard was still young and new, where there was only Prontera Fortress Castle alone with no forts, competing guilds battle it out among each other for the glory of owning the only available thrown. Bases available had special buffs, where whoever dares to challenge the guardians protecting it, will be rewarded with WoE only skills as an added advantage to siege the main event, PF CASTLE.

 

It was a much savage period of time in history. Walls were painted in red, prides scattered all over pilled up corpses on the battlefield. Warriors who managed to reach the gates of the thrown having to evade and survive multiple challenges along the way were already seen as mighty. Above that, the very few that were beyond mighty pushed through the gates of hell and ventured into the hall of fame. The bravest and strongest of guild of the day gets the Emperium and ends the war. Proudly announcing to the whole realm that they are the one and only who made it.

 

*in a much less serious tone

And so thats what the developer initially intended WoE was gonna be like. With this old system in place, WoE did not last a whole hour depending on how fast the castle got captured. There was an instance where WoE ended within the first 5 mins of commencement of the war due to a player's ability to teleport into the castle and 1 Hit KOed the Emperium. There were also too many completing guilds with only 1 properties. Therefore Gravity devised a new system where they introduced forts and the point system to make WoE more interesting that will last a full hour of fun and excitement. Guilds will have more opportunities and chances to attack and conquer the castle while at the same time have the options to go for available new forts.

 

The point system allows WoE to last a full hour and prevents anyone with special means to be able to get the castle without needing to defend it entirely. It requires the castle owner to be able to siege it successfully and defend it at the same time. It promotes the utilization of strategy and allocation sense of timing during woe to make it more meaningful and interesting. It is also a mechanism that provides time and space of more opportunities for other guilds to secure forts and setup defense as the prevailing castle owner have to defend its property for points purposes. 

 

If there is a chance where the point system is to be removed from WoE, this is what's gonna happen. The well to do guilds gonna go on a genocide slaughter fest for the first 50 mins of WoE, killing and flat-lining all others within its path without having to strategize any sort of defensive measures. Once they have obtained their satisfaction of bloodthrist desires and have forts in hand, they can just storm into the castle to capture it before WoE ends. All is well as long as you have the firepower to do it. There is no need for drawing boards, raid formation, defensive setup and pre-WoE preparation. Just pressing buttons and be merry.

 

I'm not for or against such changes, because ultimately the guild that puts in the work and preparation to equip themselves with the right tools and mentality will prevails regardless of the environment. Ragnarok Online 2 is not a game where everyone gets the same privilege without needing to put in the extra effort. Asking the publisher to make amendment to the system in order to avoid the hardship and challenges of the game is just downplaying the achievements u strive for. It's certainly dont look good advocating on something u might not have think it through and knowing the consequences of it. There is nothing groundbreaking about all these recycled suggestions. 

 

Identify and address the actual problems which all of us are facing regardless of guild, race and region. Something server wide that not only affects the PvP Community. That will be something worth standing up for.

but the idea would not be to go back to the old one, to continue the same only without the points, who finished the woe with the castle would stay with the castle, I think it would bring more competitiveness to the game and it would not be common to have a guild of 100 raping one of 20, we need to find a way for a big guild to be forced to defend her castle until the end, this of having her free time to destroy smaller guilds does not help at all. let's be honest here, you know the unbalance of numbers that is currently happening, what do you think would be good to make the game encourage the smaller guilds thus giving more opportunities to them?


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#7 adamch

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 02:18 AM

but the idea would not be to go back to the old one, to continue the same only without the points, who finished the woe with the castle would stay with the castle, I think it would bring more competitiveness to the game and it would not be common to have a guild of 100 raping one of 20, we need to find a way for a big guild to be forced to defend her castle until the end, this of having her free time to destroy smaller guilds does not help at all. let's be honest here, you know the unbalance of numbers that is currently happening, what do you think would be good to make the game encourage the smaller guilds thus giving more opportunities to them?


"to continue the same only without the points, who finished the woe with the castle would stay with the castle, I think it would bring more competitiveness to the game and it would not be common to have a guild of 100 raping one of 20"
 
When the 100 u mentioned do not need to defend the castle coz there is no longer points that they need to be concern of, what do u think they will do?  U r right that it will promote more competitiveness to WoE, but in a form that the occurrence of "100 raping one of 20" will greatly increase.
 

 

"we need to find a way for a big guild to be forced to defend her castle until the end,"
 
What u r suggesting is directly the opposite of what u wanted to achieve in the first place. Big guilds dont even need to defend the castle at all knowing that they will have a good chance getting it back by attacking it before the end of WoE. By then, they would have secured all the forts as well from the start because u giving them a reason to leave their castle.
 

 

"what do you think would be good to make the game encourage the smaller guilds thus giving more opportunities to them?"

 

Instead of spending the time to ask the publisher to make amendment to the system, why not channel your effort in recruitment and planning for a better well executed WoE ? coz whatever changes the server might be, u cannot escape the fact that its still gonna be 100 vs 20. Bring the smaller guilds onto the same level as the defending guild.

 

U request WP to reduce capacity of Guild. U will still end up having to deal with 100 vs 20 + u giving them an advantage of having 2/3 extra ecalls to use. U request WP to limit the use of siege weapon on the basis of making the map less laggy. Well it's still laggy as before and u made the winning side more well organized than previously. U request WP to nerf classes and provide better chances for players to obtain better eq, u unintentionally made the guild u trying to oppress become stronger than before.

 

My point is that changes in the WoE system will not address the actual problem the whole server is facing. The player's pool is reducing on a daily basis which forbids WoE guilds from getting larger. Thats what we should be concern about first. Else no matter what is suggested in the future, is still gonna be 100 vs 20 i assure u.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#8 PageupBR

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 04:43 AM

"to continue the same only without the points, who finished the woe with the castle would stay with the castle, I think it would bring more competitiveness to the game and it would not be common to have a guild of 100 raping one of 20"
 
When the 100 u mentioned do not need to defend the castle coz there is no longer points that they need to be concern of, what do u think they will do?  U r right that it will promote more competitiveness to WoE, but in a form that the occurrence of "100 raping one of 20" will greatly increase.
 

 

"we need to find a way for a big guild to be forced to defend her castle until the end,"
 
What u r suggesting is directly the opposite of what u wanted to achieve in the first place. Big guilds dont even need to defend the castle at all knowing that they will have a good chance getting it back by attacking it before the end of WoE. By then, they would have secured all the forts as well from the start because u giving them a reason to leave their castle.
 

 

"what do you think would be good to make the game encourage the smaller guilds thus giving more opportunities to them?"

 

Instead of spending the time to ask the publisher to make amendment to the system, why not channel your effort in recruitment and planning for a better well executed WoE ? coz whatever changes the server might be, u cannot escape the fact that its still gonna be 100 vs 20. Bring the smaller guilds onto the same level as the defending guild.

 

U request WP to reduce capacity of Guild. U will still end up having to deal with 100 vs 20 + u giving them an advantage of having 2/3 extra ecalls to use. U request WP to limit the use of siege weapon on the basis of making the map less laggy. Well it's still laggy as before and u made the winning side more well organized than previously. U request WP to nerf classes and provide better chances for players to obtain better eq, u unintentionally made the guild u trying to oppress become stronger than before.

 

My point is that changes in the WoE system will not address the actual problem the whole server is facing. The player's pool is reducing on a daily basis which forbids WoE guilds from getting larger. Thats what we should be concern about first. Else no matter what is suggested in the future, is still gonna be 100 vs 20 i assure u.

but the last few minutes that this bigger guild use to chase after their castle in the end will be the last minutes that the smaller guilds will chase after their fortress =)

 

there are no new players playing the war precisely because you can not be the opposition, you need to understand that the chance is 0 to be born any guild to play woe in the current system. What are we going to do ? keep waiting ?.

 

ok i have a guild with my friends (5 friends) and we want to play woe, only one guild took all the castles and fortress, what i'll do ?. Do you know how long it takes for you to convince 40 players to play pvp and improve gears to everyone? imagine 100 =)

 

if we do not show to these players that they have at least an opportunity to take one fortress to keep improving and recruiting they will not back, even if it's a gate, we need to tell them that "you can do this".

 

if we can not change the system to that the smaller guilds have a chance to play, we're ready for the server to close


Edited by PageupBR, 28 February 2018 - 04:44 AM.

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#9 adamch

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:47 AM

Admire your enthusiasm  :no1:

 

Best of luck to you 

 

:ok:


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#10 5318130516144610857

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 08:03 AM

Considering how low attendance numbers are on the opposition, and with no real improvement whatsoever in-sight of an increase in number of players if nothing is done:

 

- reset WOE 4x a year on a known to everybody schedule. Hopefully this stirrs up interest in WOE at least 4x a year and smaller guilds realise the importance of not having PF locked up to a single guild or alliance.

- Make BoA relevant again! This can be done in many ways and I'm not sure which one is the best for the improvement of what we want WOE to be. One idea is to give a relevant buff to a guild (Half-Life skill, more HP,... ) that does not own a fort or castle. This buff will prevail only in PF map and disappears as soon as the guild has claimed the ownership of a fort or castle. Without wanting to strategize too much on it, at first glance it would give the guilds who wish to participate in WOE and do not own anything an incentive and advantage to attack PF.

- Alternatively, remove the castle main gate to open up the upper parts of the PF map. Remove South if necessary. Redinition of the WOE maps for a more active interest from smaller guilds to participate in WOE and not be stuck to a seemingless impenetrable wall.

- Reduce the numbers of slots in a guild to 40 or 60. Let the big guilds have the chore to divide themselves between many guilds. Let them have to recall 1 or 2 times or even more if needed to destroy a well defended with equal numbers objective.

- Remove castle points. Last guild to break the main emp gets the castle, and let the guilds decide what best strategies they can come up with to secure their objectives.

 

I was never personally fervent supporter of the point system, and am not either of reducing the number of players in a guild. It is my opinion that a lot of these measures should have been done much sooner to prevent more players from losing interest in WOE, and moving on to other games. At this point I find hard to ever recover the population RO2 once had, even with the release of a new and exciting zone!

 

No matter what is suggested and changed in WoE maps, there will always be a counter or hard-counter to it, the important part is to give a fair chance to both sides of playing them out. The numbers, or should I say lack of thereof, will always be problematic no matter what. Only one thing is certain: if nothing is done and a lot of players have expressed their feelings and opinons on the subject, wishing to change and redefine WOE, there will be no more competitive PvP in WoE as the game once had.


Edited by 5318130516144610857, 26 March 2018 - 12:08 PM.

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#11 5318130516144610857

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 08:13 AM

One final thought: those are merely suggestions thrown out there for the consideration of all, they do not mean a magical fix to all the game's WOE problems. Some need polish for sure, other a more careful look and forethought of possible consequences. As a player it is not my duty to carefully explain everything in detail and make sure everything is well-balanced, fun and fair for everybody. I let that responsabilty to the WP team that develops the game.


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#12 paopaopee1

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 03:26 PM

ok i have a guild with my friends (5 friends) and we want to play woe, only one guild took all the castles and fortress, what i'll do ?. Do you know how long it takes for you to convince 40 players to play pvp and improve gears to everyone? imagine 100 =)

it takes time to make guild that has stable 100 players on woe. if blueblood does it why cant you? trust yourself we know you can do this too. dont give up. all guild started on 1, who knows maybe later your guild owns all on woe.

Edited by paopaopee1, 28 February 2018 - 03:27 PM.

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#13 1131131129203649980

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 04:16 PM

it takes time to make guild that has stable 100 players on woe. if blueblood does it why cant you? trust yourself we know you can do this too. dont give up. all guild started on 1, who knows maybe later your guild owns all on woe.

 

i dont think this is possible now cause the number of new players every month is rly low and almost everyone have guild and there is little reason for people to start to play this game


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#14 YukiraWT

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:27 PM

yes, the woe system can improve, but the warpportal needs to fulfill her work with divulgation and and maintain order on the server, need to listen to the ideas and analyze what will be the best choice. the current system works well if you have at least 400 active players, currently, sorry to say that, but it will not work. =)


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#15 paopaopee1

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 06:50 PM

i dont think this is possible now cause the number of new players every month is rly low and almost everyone have guild and there is little reason for people to start to play this game

trust on wp and dont give up the fight. sure some got guild but if we put all together we can make a great team.just be positive <3
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#16 1131131129203649980

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 04:48 AM

trust on wp and dont give up the fight. sure some got guild but if we put all together we can make a great team.just be positive <3

 

is not possible right now, like someone said there are not much active players

there are even full guilds but of PVE players and other players are just casual players

 

there are not more pvp players


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#17 coffeelover

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:06 PM

why remove the castle points? because this opens more doors for the bigger guilds to take more fortress (taking more chances out of the smaller guilds), because after the castle is safe this guild no longer needs to defend it and so use the last few minutes to attack the smaller guilds, so, if larger guilds defend the castles until the last minute would mean that these larger guilds would have fewer players available to attack the other fortresses and thus giving chance to the smaller guilds.

 

Example: a guild with 100 members active and have their castle gate opened, so they put  40 members to defend castle while just 60 attack another fortress, this remains very risky, once knowing that this guild with 100 players that is defending the castle can receive recall of several small guilds and thus taking her castle in the last minutes.

 

I want to hear everyone's opinion.

 

I'm not sure about the removal of the whole point system, to be honest. At the same time it grants an advantage to bigger guilds, it also allows small guild own the castle by defending it less time. Of course the effort and organization required to small guilds would be way greater and complex than that to bigger guilds, but even so that's an opportunity.

 

The main problem, everyone here already knows, is lack of players. And the main concern raised here (if I got it right) is create the opportunity to new players join PvP, in order to make WoE more competitve and enjoyable again. The game has normal and expected turnover of players, however, PvP guild members, how many new players (not alts nor old players) from the last year till now have you recruited?

 

One way to support the solution in long term would be increasing the rate of new player (from this regular turnover) that build up to PvP. To do that, they need to raise the interest in PvP, so when they reach the late game they can keep playing. It will take time and the WoE outcomes would remain the same meanwhile.

So, the golden question would be "What would lead/motivate a new player to wanna join PvP?"

 

In short term, one way to support the solution in would be increasing the possibilities of small guilds to gain some awards/prizes (usually granted for fortress/castle owner). To do that, I agree on below suggestions:

 

- reset WOE 4x a year on a known to everybody schedule. Hopefully this stirrs up interest in WOE at least 4x a year and smaller guilds realise the importance of not having PF locked up to a single guild or alliance.

- Make BoA relevant again! This can be done in many ways and I'm not sure which one is the best for the improvement of what we want WOE to be. One idea is to give a relevant buff to a guild (Half-Life skill, more HP,... ) that does not own a fort or castle. This buff will prevail only in PF map and disappears as soon as the guild has claimed the ownership of a fort or castle. Without wanting to strategize too much on it, at first glance it would give the guilds who wish to participate in WOE and do not own anything an incentive and advantage to attack PF.

- Alternatively, remove the castle main gate to open up the upper parts of the PF map. Remove South if necessary. Redinition of the WOE maps for a more active interest from smaller guilds to participate in WOE and not be stuck to a seemingless impenetrable wall.

- Reduce the numbers of slots in a guild to 40 or 60. Let the big guilds have the chore to divide themselves between many guilds. Let them have to recall 1 or 2 times or even more if needed to destroy a well defended with equal numbers objective.

 

Another suggestion could be:

- make a Guild Blood Point system, which sums up the BP earned by the whole guild during the WoE, which could be traded for some useful items (food, scrolls, pots, rune crafting items, equip and card refine items, etc) which in turn will help them to gear up and be well prepared for the next WoE (or a BP guild donation system instead; or a Guild Tokens/Blood Point Merchant with such supportive items) - any system that makes BP and/or GT valuable in late game and that can support small/beginner guilds to build up their members into PvP mode.


Edited by coffeelover, 04 March 2018 - 06:52 PM.

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