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Rogue Skill: Cossack Dance


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#1 theleftone66

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 12:31 PM

hello guys, dont know if somebody already recognized but there is a small problem with the damage calculation of the cossack dance skill(nutcracker with tetris melody)

at lvl 5 it should have a 290% weapon scaling, i have atm 47k atk but the skill does only like 24-35k dmg without crit, thats even less then my X up or X down skills,
compare to my skills that have 250% weapon scaling like my headspin or windmill which do like 42-55k atk this is rly low ofc

even my weakest skills do at least 10k+ more dmg

i know the skill calculations, dont worry, i just think that the weapon scaling of the skill cossack dance is ignored atm, if it is activated again like it should work then it would do a lil mit more then my other skills, so it would be worth to make that skill lvl 10 with monster cards, but atm its even kinda wasted if skilled, cuz the higher skillvl just doesnt change the dmg, since the scaling is kinda disabled

would appreciate if u fix this :-)

btw the skill discription of the "step the beat" skill is wrong since a while, its replaced with the aprilfool dance debuff discription :P? lol


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#2 XiongmaoLin

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 04:06 PM

i know the skill calculations, dont worry

 

If you do know that some skills calculate final damage based on total ATK and some other skills based on base weapon ATK, then your question is answered.

Thus, why post it here?


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#3 Vossel

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 04:32 PM

There are only a few maybe just a handfull of physical damage skills that use the real ATK as calculation value, most of the skills for Physical damage use the Weapon Base stats as calculation basis.

The exact calculation is actually 

FinalDamage = RandomValue(OverallATKMin...OverallATKMax) + (STR * 2 + CharLevel * 6) + SkillPower +

(SkillAdditionalDamage (%) of RandomValue(WeaponBasePATKMin...WeaponBasePATKMax))

 

ATKmin = ATKmax - (TotalWeaponMax - TotalWeaponMin)


Edited by Vossel, 02 March 2018 - 04:33 PM.

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#4 theleftone66

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 02:15 AM

If you do know that some skills calculate final damage based on total ATK and some other skills based on base weapon ATK, then your question is answered.

Thus, why post it here?

 

Wow dude u shew me that u just didnt read my post

trust me, i know the calculations, read what vossel posted, there is jsut no way that cossak dance deals the half of the damage it should, i remember that it was normal a while a go, now i play again sinca a half year and before i stopped it was normal,

pls dont talk if u dont know anything about skills and calculations and maths

2+2=4
-1=3
quick maths dude
just try it on ure own and dont do things like "ooh u dont know the calculatiosn"#11


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#5 Popcorn

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 03:03 AM

Nothing has been changed to cossack dance. I would appreciate @theleftone66 if you wouldn't only post to blame us for things we didn't do and starting false rumors. Assuming something stating it as it is fact is considered as staring false rumors and is against the forum rules. 

 

You can ask if we changed anything on skills but don't just assume things and state these assumptions as they were fact.

 

We always inform the community about skill changes we are doing. This is part of our transparency policy. That always has been that way and we will continue doing it that way.

 

Also please know that we have different sections on this forum please post your topics in the correct section next time. Your topic has been moved.

 


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#6 theleftone66

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 03:21 AM

ty, just found out the topic sections, yeah this place is definitly the right one now

ok i will try to explain things better now

my question is, if its possible to rework the cossack dance damage calculation, cuz in the moment nothing changes with the skill if lvled up higher then 3(at lvl 3 fallen enemys can be hit also)

from lvl1-lv10 it will hit 5 standing and after lvl 3 standing and fallen enemys and will always give the stun with the same stun lvl

i just recognized that maybe the skill has no damage scaling since it doesnt even do the base damage compared to skills like x+up and x+down

the damage of the skill is more like comparing with skills that have negative damage scaling like chaing lightning

atm i have it at lvl 5, it has a 270% weapon attack scaling(well at least in the discription)
my other skills have 80-250% and they do almost double the damage

could u please rewrite the discription of the skill cossack dance to how it should work with the calculatiosn (because obviously it doesnt calculate like all other skills which scale with weapon atk%)

or could u just try to fix it so it will do the weapon scaling% too like the other skills, i would be glade to make the skill to lvl10 then

well, anyways ty :-)


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#7 XiongmaoLin

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 08:07 AM

pls dont talk if u dont know anything about skills and calculations and maths

 

One of the few things I do not know about your problem is how much base min and max weapon ATK your character boasts. Posting them here would greatly improve your chances at someone finding a solution, instead of simply going "there's a problem, fix it asap".

 

While I did jump the gun, you have not done much to help. Do paste or link for example a screenshot of your character's stats with your weapon's equip options showing, plus the description of the skill, and at the very least everyone will see that this is not as simple as it looks, as I did, right? That way more players should feel like giving it a thought.


Edited by XiongmaoLin, 03 March 2018 - 08:08 AM.

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#8 Vossel

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 01:47 PM

Not sure if this is right but i remember that skill not dealing element damage, if you have lot of element dmg that could make the difference in those hits.

 


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#9 theleftone66

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:04 AM

no, it has ele dmg, the krits are like 100-150k weaker

i already tested it :-)


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#10 theleftone66

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 09:59 AM

so guys, i made some screenshots where u can see the problem which i tried to explain, i compare cossack dance lvl 5(270% weapon scaling) with my upper screwdriver (180% weapon scaling)

krits are also shown and in the system chat u can read the actual damages too

cossack dance has normal ele dmg like other skills too, u can see it on the krits they show the difference very well :-)

https://cdn.discorda...30419352314.jpg
https://cdn.discorda...30419343513.jpg
https://cdn.discorda...30419300306.jpg
https://cdn.discorda...30419280402.jpg
https://cdn.discorda...30419302209.jpg

hope we can see the real skill calculation of the skill cossack dance or it gets fixed maybe ??

if so i would be glad to farm those points to get it to lvl 10 :D


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#11 XiongmaoLin

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:05 PM

Why, thanks! If it is not too much of a bother, may I also ask you to send a picture of your element damage (PvE)? It might help me a lot.

 

Edit: yes, one might need more information from me than just this. I am thinking that monsters of a higher level also have higher defence (from my very personal experience; this might be complete fantasy as far as I know), which means the element damage might become prominent given one stacks it (this is one of the reasons I prefer running tests on woodies). If you have around for example 7,000 PvE element damage, then your Cossack dance deals around 24,000 physical damage on a regular hit and around six times that, that is 144,000, on a 600% critical hit.

Thus a regular 24,000 + 7,000 = 31,000 and critical 24,000 x 6 + 7,000 = 151,000. And the weird crits are justified. Quod erat demonstrandum, if I may say so.


Edited by XiongmaoLin, 04 March 2018 - 02:18 PM.

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#12 theleftone66

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 11:12 PM

I have 47k atk and 9,6k ele atk
Well at woodies u maybe do 500more dmg, there is not a "defense" in pve even the difference between woodies and elga monsters is small

So here is the point:
Cossack dance 270% weapon scaling = 24k base(x6 if krit) +9,6k ele atk
Upper screwdriver 180% weapon scaling 42k base(x6 if krit) +9,6k ele dmg

My problem is that the base damage is way too low, almost the half of the base damage it should have
For example my dance skills have 250% scaling, still 20%less then cossack dance but do base 45k(x6 if crit) +9,6k ele dmg

Cossack dance does slightly more then x hits and less damage then cutdown

So i am wondering if this is normal :?

Well maybe u guys could fix that so we as savages could be glad to max the skill :P
Ty :)
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#13 Vossel

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 07:10 AM

so if you think your damage is messed up, according to the Calculation i posted earlier which was published by Popcorn some time ago, i should deal fully buffed (145k ATK) at least 114k 

ATK max 145373

ATK min 145373-(44085-12559) = 145373-31526 = 113847

Weapon base Max 12689

Weapon base Min 3540

so the formula says 

FinalDamage = RandomValue(OverallATKMin...OverallATKMax) + (STR * 2 + CharLevel * 6) + SkillPower +

(SkillAdditionalDamage (%) of RandomValue(WeaponBasePATKMin...WeaponBasePATKMax))

 

ATKmin = ATKmax - (TotalWeaponMax - TotalWeaponMin)

 

So if it takes a random value between the ATK max and ATK min it should be between 145373 and 113847.

additional i got 698 STR that times 2 is 1396 + my character level (85) times 6 is 510.

if we add this now to the minimum damage we get 115753

so the least dmg i should deal with those things alone should be 115753

but against those woodie at Windia plains i got dmg numbers that go down to around 80k for a hit.

It is not only your skill that is strange, the complete damage calculation is messed up in my opinion.

 

EDIT: i have around 3k element dmg PvE.


Edited by Vossel, 05 March 2018 - 07:12 AM.

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#14 XiongmaoLin

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:33 AM

[...] but against those woodie at Windia plains i got dmg numbers that go down to around 80k for a hit.

It is not only your skill that is strange, the complete damage calculation is messed up in my opinion.

 

I am not sure this will help much, but not all chain combo attacks deal 100% of your ATK as damage. See screenshot below (I have no Gladiator for now, so showing an Archer's instead).

 

Chain_combo_damage.jpg

 

 

As for Cossack dance vs Upper screwdriver: some testing showed that defence indeed does not seem to exist for monsters, at least not the regular field creatures. That, or it is so low that it is likely for it not to show in a sequence of twenty-ish recorded attacks that seemed to mix low and high random values.

Which... makes a lot of sense now that I think about it, as it would be strange for these creatures to feature some kind of damage reduction when they already have low or high health points that make any further tuning of defensive abilities meaningless.

 

Thus.

Base weapon ATK: 1617 ~ 4488

Total weapon ATK: 6,272 ~ 16,473

Total ATK: 47,000

STR: supposedly negligible; otherwise ≈ 400 maximum.

Character level: 65

Skill power: 360 vs 200

Skill additional damage: 270% vs 180%

Max overall ATK: 47,000

Min overall ATK: 47,000 + 6,272 - 16,473 = 36,799

 

Following what Vossel wrote above (and assuming it is right), using base weapon attack for Cossack dance:

Damage of one hit of Cossack dance = 270% x rand ( { Min base weapon ATK ; ... ; Max base weapon ATK } ) + 360 + 400 x 2 + 65 x 6 + rand ( { Min total ATK ; ... ; Max total ATK } ) + Elemental damage

= 2.7 x rand(1,617 ... 4,488) + rand(36,799 ... 47,000) + 1,550 + 9,600

= rand(4,366 ... 12,118) + rand(36,799 ... 47,000) + 11,150

= 52,315 ~ 70,268.

Does not contain 31,425.

 

Nope. What if we use base weapon attack instead of total?

 

Damage = 2.7 x rand(1,617 ... 4,488) + rand(1,617 .. 4,488) + 1,550 + 9,600

= 3.7 x rand(1,617 ... 4,488) + 11,150

= 17,133 ~ 27,756.

Does not contain 31,425.

 

Hmm... nah. Replacing total attack with total weapon attack then?

 

Damage = 2.7 x rand(1,617 ... 4,488) + rand(6,272 ... 16,473) + 1,550 + 9,600

= rand(4,366 ... 12,118) + rand(6,272 ... 16,473) + 11,150

= 21,788 ~ 39,741.

Contains 31,425. *victory music*

 

This is the only result that comes to my mind and is actually based on something other than thin air, though it feels... strange, to say the least. Adding total weapon attack instead of total character attack... Well, you might say the damage calculation is messed up anyway (adding one time total attack of the character, why?!).

 

 

As for Upper screwdriver, I feel busy enough to let someone else do it.


Edited by XiongmaoLin, 05 March 2018 - 11:34 AM.

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#15 Vossel

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:59 AM

https://forums.warpp...scaling-skills/
This is the topic where he published the calculation and as long as he did post the righ calculation there should be something else that creates this mistake

 


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