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Make Expert mode less punishing, at lower levels, for Summoners


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#1 XiongmaoLin

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 01:21 PM

Good morning, afternoon, evening, night.

 

As of today, it is way less efficient for Summoners (and, as I was told, Monks) to level up in Expert mode, that is to say in a way that requires actively playing, than it is to mindlessly spam F7 which requires minimum attention and about no investment in gear, nor does it require to know any boss' attack pattern (the one-shot Aram spikes were a rather nice surprise by the way)...

And that because of an extreme increase in difficulty for this class: any regular monster in Kundara, at lv.55 with a +7 Magichenge gun staff, has a total of around 150,000 HP, with the boss herself (Mutisha) 5,36M. And I only have a total of 6,507 MATK, needing an average of 24 hits (8 attacks with Helix shot on) to kill, or a whole 1,000 mana combo with 10,000 maximum mana (not enough skill points yet to unlock more than three good damaging spells). Which is, in case this was not obvious, a whole lot.

 

This means that if a Summoner wants to level up efficiently (i.e. as efficiently as many other classes), they will have to spend hours in F7, which is to say: they will have to spend hours not playing, because of the class they chose. That, or spending much more time questing or raiding dungeons in Expert mode.

 

I feel bad knowing I should spend more time levelling up just because I chose to play a class I enjoy. I have to hold X with Helix shot on in Expert mode to even be able to kill regular monsters because of my high mana costs and rather low damage otherwise. I boast 244% attack speed (for now) and am unable to earn a nice amount of experience by raiding Expert mode VF or Kundara because it takes ages, even going at it in the most efficient and boring way (sadly enough, as mentioned above: holding X).

 

 

This penalizes players who actually want to play rather than wait for their experience gauge to magically fill itself up. I thus ask for a lowering of regular monsters' total HP in Expert mode for Summoners for lower character level and enchant level. Just for Summoners (again: and seemingly Monks) not to feel compelled not to play in order to play. They indeed are way too powerful, but punishing players choosing them this way is gruesome.

 

 

Edit: fixed typo and incorrect wording.


Edited by XiongmaoLin, 20 March 2018 - 11:36 AM.

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#2 Precrush

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 01:58 PM

Yes, it is quite unfair. But prepare for people saying it's justified and you've earned because you chose that class. And also it's not gonna change, we've gone trough this many times already.

Nerf x-spam.
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#3 XiongmaoLin

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 02:14 PM

I play a class because I find it fun, and levelling up basically makes me choose between napping in F7, waking up for bombs, or napping in Expert dungeons, waking up for the boss. I cannot even use any spell in one or the other, in F7 because... well, one cannot fight anyway, and in Expert mode because monsters are so tanky that said spells are barely enough to scratch their backs or push packs of monsters together in order to slay them at bundle price rather than one by one.

 

Having fun when playing Summoner means either not caring about levelling up or enjoying the long hold-this-key sessions, while most other classes can level up while using diverse skills to slay stuff (e.g. Warlock). It is unfair indeed.


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#4 Kebein

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:45 PM

Feels to me like the Trade-off for being able to solo elga incredible fast. Summoner seems like more end-game focused compared to the human race classes.

In my opinion it should stay this way, you cant have a class which only has benefits and no negative aspect feels a bit unfair.


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#5 XiongmaoLin

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:43 AM

As written in the introduction post, Shamans indeed are too powerful, but it is in no way a reason to prevent users from playing them as one would any other class. A trade-off should not be that one cannot play normally before reaching a certain level; it makes no sense.

 

Nerf Shamans and give them a normal game! Well, just nerf X-spam and we will be half-way there.


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#6 xfirebrandx

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:12 AM

The Latest changes to the Expert feel like they made it so much harder to clear and not worth anymore. (well at a place to level up at least.)
Before patch i was able to run RF with overlord, gambit, destro, senti  in less than 8 min with easy, with +0 weapons of course.
now with +20 weapons i'm nowhear near those times, my overlord and senti take like 20 hits for 1 mob to die now, (2-3 hits before patch) and a whole run takes about 20 minutes ... the boss and stone gate thingys are faster than before..

 

With invoker with +20 pos , 35% finalcrit, 400% critdmg  and cap atkspeed on lvl 81 its just not possible :D weapon durability is gone at around miniboss 2.


Edited by xfirebrandx, 20 March 2018 - 11:13 AM.

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#7 XiongmaoLin

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 12:09 PM

I for one do not think it is just right to call Expert mode an... expert game mode when regular monsters die within three hits from a character without any kind of gear. Also I have no particular problem with clearing any dungeon as a Sorcerer, except maybe Drakos Tower and Count Van Cliff's mansion that feel a little tedious to go through (using a +18 Zauharant on a lv.79 character). A bit of a challenge is fine (an enormous challenge is fine too if the reward is just as enormous), just maybe not this mindless punching of beefy practice targets it can feel like when using my Shaman.

On this topic, I noticed that partway bosses (mini-bosses) are way less difficult, and also way less rewarding to slay, than I suppose they ought to be. Simple formality, if I may say so, and the groggy mode makes it incredibly bland for Shamans, whatever the health points (only partway bosses in Red Fox Delta actually feel like big, bad, powerful meanies; in Akia Cave or Verdurous Forest they are simply tougher monsters). If a trade must be made, I suggest strengthening these in order to decrease the durability of most regular monsters (again, I am taking into account Shamans only).

 

I gather the problem arises with Monks as well; might I ask you, Firebrand, to make sure your claims about raiding Red Fox Delta as an Invoker are accurate? I somehow doubt I could at all make my Magichenge gun staff's durability go down from 100% to 0, as from my experience its decrease is more than halved. It would take me... quite some time to do so, if not a few hours, though I cannot exactly tell since I could raid Akia Cave quite a few times without having to worry about repairing my gear.

 

 

 

Edit: coherence! Coherence, for the language's sake!


Edited by XiongmaoLin, 20 March 2018 - 12:10 PM.

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#8 xfirebrandx

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 08:11 AM

I didnt test it in rfd, but in verdour forest. somehow had "revious forest " in my mind and typed RF xD 


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#9 7729170822175338137

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 08:43 AM

The Latest changes to the Expert feel like they made it so much harder to clear and not worth anymore. (well at a place to level up at least.)
Before patch i was able to run RF with overlord, gambit, destro, senti  in less than 8 min with easy, with +0 weapons of course.
now with +20 weapons i'm nowhear near those times, my overlord and senti take like 20 hits for 1 mob to die now, (2-3 hits before patch) and a whole run takes about 20 minutes ... the boss and stone gate thingys are faster than before..

 

With invoker with +20 pos , 35% finalcrit, 400% critdmg  and cap atkspeed on lvl 81 its just not possible :D weapon durability is gone at around miniboss 2.

 

I can't comment on Overlord/Invoker, but it definitely does not take 20min for a sentinel to do Verd Forest.

 

Just did a few runs a few days ago on my lvl 60 senti (+0 lvl 55 weapon (not Aram), ~230%CD, 8% fcr, 200% Atk speed) to farm for Good Luck Ring. Every run finished before my 10min EXP pot ran out. With my lvl 85 senti (+20 POS, 500%CD, 40% fcr, 300%atk speed), the run is even faster.

 

The mobs also don't take 20 hits to die for senti; they take 5~10 hits on my lvl 60 and 2-5 hits, on my lvl 85.

 

I know you're exaggerating a bit, but going from 8min -> 20min because of the change is a little too much.


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