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2018 Summer Games Format


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Poll: Summer Games Format 2018 (23 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your preferred format for the 2018 Summer Games? (you may vote for more than one)

  1. 1v1 (individuals) (2 votes [5.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.71%

  2. 3v3 (clans) (5 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  3. 3v3 (teams) (4 votes [11.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.43%

  4. 5v5 (clans) (16 votes [45.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.71%

  5. 5v5 (teams) (5 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  6. Free-For- All (3 votes [8.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.57%

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#1 AndraSyte

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:55 AM

Greetings Roserians!

 

With summer quickly approaching, it's time again to prepare for the Summer Games! This year we did want to ask the community regarding what your preferred format for the event would be! Would you like to have last year's 5v5 Clan format or something new? Just pick the option(s) you like best in the poll above!  Don't see the format you'd like to see this year as an option? You can include it in a post below and we will try to accommodate it to the best of our ability if it wins! Please make sure to cast your vote by Monday June 18th! 

 

Once the format has been decided a sign up topic with rules and prizes will be posted!

 

**Please note that as of June 18th the poll concluded and the event format will be 5v5 (Clans). Please use this topic for suggestions/feedback for the 2018 Summer Games. Thank you everyone! 


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#2 Phish

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 04:21 PM

Overall group pvp> 1v1 pvp in Rose. I'd prefer one of the group pvp format (probably 5v5) but anything is ok except for free for all. Above anything I do not want to see the format degrade to something as degenerate as that (and it's currently winning.... lol)


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#3 Feuer

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 06:02 PM

It should be 3v3/5v5 Clans or Teams.

 

1v1's are far far too imbalanced. You'll have nothing but 3 classes participating [Raiders, Mages and Clerics]

Free For All: You guys had a problem just keeping line of sight on a 5v5. The last thing I think you're ready to try and tackle, is a free for all.. no offense.

 

No more than 1 Healer and 1 Off-Healer.

No more than 1 of each class if 3v3, and no more than 2 of a class if 5v5.

and No more than 1 Person can Resurrect per team. Last time, we had Clerics and Mages bouncing Resurrections. If your teams 'resurector' goes down, that was a tactical play by the enemy team and they should be rewarded for the strategy if they succeed. Cheesing Resurrections is annoying and imbalanced in group PvP tournaments. 

 

Laslty, 

NO SUBSTITUTES.

 

If someone doesn't show, they should have to either fight without, or forfeit. Last time, I'm pretty confident a few people didn't show because 'they forgot' and someone on another team logged an alt to 'help'. 

It's too easy to manipulate if you allow subs, just ban substitutes. 


Edited by Feuer, 04 June 2018 - 10:43 PM.

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#4 Vaztus

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 07:53 PM

Strongly agree with Feuer. If possible, enforce time limit and if timer ends team with most members still alive wins and also... slightly smaller map. :D

 


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#5 Feuer

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 08:16 PM

Time limit could be cheesed by having a Scout + Raider just Stealth until the end of the time. 

General rule of thumb should be if combat stops for more than 20-30 seconds due to players refusing to come out of invisibility, they forfeit. 


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#6 AndraSyte

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:18 AM

Thank you for all the input so far everyone! I will forward it to the ROSE Team for review and consideration while the rules and prizes are being finalized  :p_smile:


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#7 Feuer

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 08:45 AM

While you're at it, 

 

When Leonis ran his Tourney, he used this website:

https://challonge.com/

 

To keep track of the brackets, and teams.

I'd highly recommend it as well, if you want it to be more presentable and professional looking.

 

Just another tip. 


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#8 henrycao

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 09:34 AM

I agree with Feuer, 1v1's wouldn't be balanced. Here is my understanding of how it goes:

 

Class list:

Bourgeous - subclass cannon-guns

Artisian - subclass guns

Scout - subclass bow-xbow

Raider - subclass dual-katar

Mage - subclass staff

Cleric - subclass wand

Champion -subclass axe-spear-sword

Knight - subclass 1hand-xbow

 

Factors that contribute to a 1v1 win or loss:

Components of chance/luck: Dispells, Debuffs, Accuracy to Dodge, Critical, DOTs, Status Downs, Blocks, Stun, Sleep, Mute, Harmful effect resistances and just lucky timing. Or an opponents incompetence.

If these factors were taken out of the equation, it came down purely to the base stats (This has happened at one point to sword vs sword champion PvP when cap level was 230, it meant that if you had beaten another sword champion once, it was 80% mute chance certain that you would beat them again even if both sides had the same gear and skill build.)

In some cases depending on which classes that are facing off, if there wasn't enough factors of luck involved; losing once most certainly meant losing again unless something was adjusted in the core of a characters build (the base stats).

 

A good full support cleric can pretty much sustain forever in a 1v1 as they were meant to support entire teams making them incredibly hard to take down alone.

Knights were empowered by the GM so that it can sustain an enormous amount of mobs in PVM which made them overpowered in 1v1 dueling.

A good xbow knight will struggle beating a mage due to a lack of burst damage for the shield.

A good xbow knight will have one hell of an easy time beating a sword or spear champion.

A good xbow knight will likely beat the average raider with dots and some luck.

A good xbow knight should be able to beat an arti before it kills him.

A good 1hand knight can beat a mage with factors of luck and kiting is not involved

A good 1hand knight can beat a raider with factors of luck and kiting is not involved

A good 1hand knight will beat a sword champion consistantly.

A good 1hand knight will never solo kill a good full support cleric.

A good axe champion theoretically might stand a chance against the knight.

A good axe champion will beat raiders inconsistently having luck involved.

A good axe champion might beat a mage if factors of luck are involved.

A good axe champion should knock out an arti and bourg quite quickly.

A good axe champion will beat a spear champion.

A good axe champion can solo kill a cleric in due time.

A good sword champion with factors of luck involved will go even against a mage.

A good sword champion will beat raiders on average

A good sword champion will beat axe or spear champions

A good sword champion will struggle against a knight

A good spear champion might beat a katar raider

A good spear champion can kite a sword champion or 1hand knight assuming no one else is on the map nerfing the damage and eventually wins if luck isn't involved.

A good spear champion doesn't have enough burst to beat the average mage.

A good arti or bourg might knock out a weak champion but if it doesn't happen once, it's most likely never going to happen again.

A good katar raider vs a good mage (luck)

A good katar raider vs a good knight (luck)

A good katar raider vs a champion (luck)

A good katar raider vs a katar raider (luck)

A good katar beats the arti or bourg (luck)

A good scout will beat a raider if luck is involved

A good scout might beat a champion if luck and kiteing is involved

A good xbow scout will lose to a sword or axe champion

A good mage will beat a champion

A good mage will beat a raider

A good mage will beat a knight

 

Classes aren't balanced for 1v1's because there are some deep issues with some classes lacking factors of luck that can sway the fight their way. So therefore even with the best statistical build possible, some classes still remain the underdog because they don't have much chance (luck) on their side (due to the class itself) to come out on top.

Katar Raiders vs Katar Raiders is the greatest show casing of how luck(chance) impacts PvP. Sleep, stuns, crit, hit or miss, dodging the enemies strongest skill, resisting even a single dot or debuff can completely sway the fight one way or another. Katar raiders are one of those classes where it is hard to know exactly what the most optimal base stats are because luck impacts the PvP almost always. Therefore sometimes we come across situations where even the best runed raiders find themselves defeated by another raider with just 1 or 2 runes or even none at all.

 

...


Edited by henrycao, 05 June 2018 - 09:52 AM.

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#9 HoneyBunz

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:47 AM

The whole issue of time would be fixed if a smaller map is used or if only a portion of the Lion Plain's map is used.  When Leo ran that tournament it was 1 vs 1 so teams/clans will need obviously more space but they don't need that whole. huge map either.  Part of what took so long last year was the fact that the teams had to run around to find each other before any actual fighting happened. 

 

I think using the website Feuer linked or something similar to keep track of winners and matches is a great idea.  


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#10 MarK1789

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:34 AM

just fix AA/CD or just make a new mode of GA PVP as good as AA/CD.. come on guys..


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#11 Feuer

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:42 AM

I fail to see how an event ran by the CM's, who have no business coding and probably aren't trained or know anything about it to begin with, would interfere with the DEV's addressing those problems. 

 

You guys conflate their job positions too much sometimes.

The only time I get annoyed when a CM is doing some type of event, if when the event result can cause the developer to pay more attention to the event, and less time of addressing the problems. A good example would be the costume contests. No one really knows who is making those costumes, and if it IS the dev team, then the costume contest should stop full tilt, until the major issues are resolved [Sorry Gravity, you're going to have to invest into development at some point before you start making money off ROSE again]. 

 

 


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#12 carl247

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 10:45 PM

15v15 so you will finally see the grp crash we've been experiencing for almost a year and a half....... 


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#13 meocutduoi

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:18 AM

15v15 so you will finally see the grp crash we've been experiencing for almost a year and a half....... 

 

Strongly agree! Or even 8vs8 or 10vs10


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#14 Feuer

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:37 AM

If your goal is to ruin an event, in the vain hopes of producing a bug that they have little priority in fixing, than be me guest. 

 

If your goal is to simply get it addressed, then perhaps a second event should be orchestrated specifically to replicate the bug / crash with the staff in a more hands on effort to get it addressed. 

But don't sacrifice an event that the PvP community probably could use to boost moral, out of petty spite. 


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#15 carl247

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 03:16 AM

well no one now is really interested in this event since we knew how the GM handled the last tournament, they didn't even look entertained nor interested when they were handling the event, they didn't even know the rules, they just let the teams fight and done like nothing really happened... Champion wasn't even recognized (I expected there would be a banner displaying the Champion or anything which would make players recognize them aside from the prizes.). And we know AA maintained the high population of the rose, its loss is also the main reason of the decline in population lately, its really decreasing over time... I'm a pure pvp type but I prefer to play AA or 10+v10+ war than to join this kind of event and besides, I enjoy playing 1v1 in JC and 5v5 in DP (2 grouped qeuers) which I think can be somehow similar to the tourna... so big NO for it unless its a 10+vs10+.... Its everybody's want so nothing will be sacrificed...


Edited by carl247, 09 June 2018 - 03:27 AM.

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#16 Phish

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:19 AM

Even without group crashing, a 10v10 format for the tournament would be too large and chaotic. The population was never high enough in the game for it to be practical either.
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#17 Feuer

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:24 AM

Carl,

don't speak for everyone. I personally enjoy watching smaller more coordinated teams fighting in contrast to sloppy larger groups who are just hoping for RNG and stats to win them the encounter.

 

General,

As for how they handled it last year, you're not wrong. The CM's know very little in terms of the game, it's content or the classes.

I'd offered in the past to act as a co-host or referee for the tourney in the future, they said 'maybe' but it was that tone of 'maybe' which really meant 'Hell no, but we can't say that cause we're live broadcasting as a company'. 

 

I wouldn't expect their knowledge to be any better this tournament, and I'd recommend no one else as well.

 

As for the whole 'Do you dare to run a 15v15 tournament'.... Just stop. You're not going to use clearly obvious reverse psychology to convince them to do it either. It's a bad idea, because we know it runs the risk of crashing. It's also a bad idea because they have enough trouble keeping track of 2 5-man teams. I understand people like the bigger team sizes because it enables them to run away, blend in, not be under constant DPS pressure etc, and that's the very reason why it's not good for a tournament. you'd have far too many people cheesing mechanics and trying to manipulate the rules by not drawing moderator attention to themselves etc. 

Also, Shahrulez, don't try to talk hard-ball in a language you're not fluent in, it makes you look arrogant. Just communicate normally like a civilized person, I'm more than confidant you can handle that. 


Edited by Feuer, 09 June 2018 - 04:26 AM.

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#18 AndraSyte

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 03:09 PM

Thank you for the feedback thus far everyone! Please make sure that when you are expressing your opinions/feedback to follow the Rules of Conduct for the forums. If the thread begins to become too heated it will be locked and only the poll will be accessible. Thank you everyone! 


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#19 Shahzrulez91

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:37 AM

Carl,

don't speak for everyone. I personally enjoy watching smaller more coordinated teams fighting in contrast to sloppy larger groups who are just hoping for RNG and stats to win them the encounter.

 

General,

As for how they handled it last year, you're not wrong. The CM's know very little in terms of the game, it's content or the classes.

I'd offered in the past to act as a co-host or referee for the tourney in the future, they said 'maybe' but it was that tone of 'maybe' which really meant 'Hell no, but we can't say that cause we're live broadcasting as a company'. 

 

I wouldn't expect their knowledge to be any better this tournament, and I'd recommend no one else as well.

 

As for the whole 'Do you dare to run a 15v15 tournament'.... Just stop. You're not going to use clearly obvious reverse psychology to convince them to do it either. It's a bad idea, because we know it runs the risk of crashing. It's also a bad idea because they have enough trouble keeping track of 2 5-man teams. I understand people like the bigger team sizes because it enables them to run away, blend in, not be under constant DPS pressure etc, and that's the very reason why it's not good for a tournament. you'd have far too many people cheesing mechanics and trying to manipulate the rules by not drawing moderator attention to themselves etc. 

Also, Shahrulez, don't try to talk hard-ball in a language you're not fluent in, it makes you look arrogant. Just communicate normally like a civilized person, I'm more than confidant you can handle that. 

 

Bad idea huh ? Ok, just play Rose Online with no fix game and with the dupe's. #nomoreplayrose #wastetime #wastemoney o0o


Edited by Shahzrulez91, 12 June 2018 - 12:38 AM.

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#20 Feuer

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:08 AM

What part of Ruining an event just to prove a bug exists we ALREADY KNOW EXISTS, is pointless do you not get? 

 

It would solve NOTHING to ruin the event like that, nothing.

If they want to organize a specific event to try and replicate the bug many times over, that's separate from the PvP tourney, then be my guest! Sounds like it'd be smart if you ask me.

 

And then, you go and infer that by holding an event is in someway going to be the staff ignoring the bug, instead of what it is. An event. 

They hold super boss events without trying to replicate the bug, and you don't complain that they're not trying to intentionally crash themselves and replicate the bug.

They hold hide n seek events, without trying to replicate the bug, and you still don't complain they're not trying to generate the crash bug.

 

But when it's a PvP Event, oh NOOOOW they're just ignoring the bug, and it's a problem.

 

No. They're trying to hold an event for people who like PvP and don't particularly care for the super boss events or LS hide n seek event. They're trying to give them something fun to do. But you don't get that. You'd rather dump on the event, and try to get it to fail, because you're not getting your way. It's infantile and pathetic in my eyes; and perfectly replicates the problem within the community at the time. Good job, you made yourself out to be 'that guy' who is of the position 'if I can't have it, no one can'. *slow....clap...*


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#21 AndraSyte

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 08:17 AM

Thank you for voting and for all your feedback regarding the Summer Games! The polls are now closed and the winning format is, 5v5 (clans)! We will be posting up a registration topic soon with this year's format, rules, and prizes so stay tuned! 


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#22 kumpiakot

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 03:10 PM

Hi Andra,

 

How about runes,gears with refine and clan passive will they be allowed?

 

TIA


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#23 Phish

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:38 PM

Why wouldn't they be?
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#24 Feuer

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 09:28 AM

This isn't a Pegasus testing tournament, so they're not going to give us pre-made chars like they did that one time, not even sure they know how to do that after all the recent changes. So more than likely, if your character is massively funded, you stand a good chance to carry your team. if you whole team is massively funded, then it's gonna be a cake walk. 


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#25 Phish

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 06:25 PM

"5000 Entries

+1000% EXP Rate
Everyone gets a boost from Arua's Fairy during the event duration!"

 

 

 

 

 

Can this be disabled during the tournament? It really adds an unnecessary variable that  changes the meta when it doesn't need to.


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