294 replies to this topic

[Minicherry]

Trans classes are on there way to transcendence.

  

If true, please take into consideration that nerfing brandish now will severely affect lord knights when all other classes get significantly stronger.

 

Bringing stated Mufflers and Shoes which will make all players Tankier, will change the game  

 

I raise concerns about the actual need to Nerf a skill.  

 

Please take this into consideration. 

 

thank you.

 

[Afith]

Trans classes are on there way to transcendence.

  

If true, please take into consideration that nerfing brandish now will severely affect lord knights when all other classes get significantly stronger.

 

Bringing stated Mufflers and Shoes which will make all players Tankier, will change the game  

 

I raise concerns about the actual need to Nerf a skill.  

 

Please take this into consideration. 

 

thank you.

 

There is a real need for a nerf but not to just scale it down. I know the experts here would say the same thing, that the Str% factor needs to be capped to some numbers and not pick up all the Str you get maybe just the stat points of 99 maximum idk just my suggestion. Megingjard user will one shot anyone if this Str% factor is not nerfed.

[AaronP2W]

I know the experts here would say the same thing, that the Str% factor needs to be capped to some numbers and not pick up all the Str you get maybe just the stat points of 99 maximum idk just my suggestion. Megingjard user will one shot anyone if this Str% factor is not nerfed.

 

Can you please stop spreading this meg propaganda? A meg will not make a knight 1-shot people with Brandish spear. Currently a knight in WoE does around 2500-3500 with Brandish Spear, a meg will add around 500-1000 damage at most.

 

On top of this there will probably be only 1-3 megs made per year, you cannot really balance a skill around such a rare item. 

Edited by AaronP2W, 09 May 2020 - 11:41 AM.

[5584171015142815377]

The skill rebalance we got also is on the main servers, which have Star Emperor/Soul Reaper/KageObo/Rebel, so I don't think that's the reason. And on top of that, we have completely different server mechanics, different monster stats and spawns, a completely different exp table, different gear availability...I don't think Zero really makes sense as a measuring stick for what we can and can't have on RT.

 

That being said, barring super novice, the expanded classes were definitely designed for a Trans environment. And while I'm not sure the disparity between them and pretrans classes is that big with renewal settings, I can understand the desire to err on the side of caution.

 

I also want to add that it doesn't matter what zero is doing. we are NOT zero and even if we are trying to emulate them, to withhold something we clearly need because of that would be a big mistake.

Linkers are certainly impactful and change a lot, but in a worst case scenario we could ban them from WOE until trans classes are out IF thats the reason. I don't mind linkers in pre trans myself. I think most guilds will adapt. 

[AaronP2W]

I think extended classes should be released at the same time as trans. 

[Krispin2]

Game balance really isn't supposed to be tied around god items anyway.

They're god items, being broken is literally their MO.

[Afith]

Can you please stop spreading this meg propaganda? A meg will not make a knight 1-shot people with Brandish spear. Currently a knight in WoE does around 2500-3500 with Brandish Spear, a meg will add around 500-1000 damage at most.

 

On top of this there will probably be only 1-3 megs made per year, you cannot really balance a skill around such a rare item. 

 

It's not a propaganda its called a better nerf than what you guys are insisting. 

 

You just exactly prove my point, Megs being OP already should not pick that 295% boost from Str factor, you get to get the imba status atk it gives because it is a rare item. 

 

You are worried about knights right now, but you don't worry what would a Meg user would do if that Str factor is not capped? And your calculation is wrong. it wont just add 500-1000 damage lol you serious? Two ring of muscle already adds about 200-300 damage right now WoE damage. How much Str does a Meg adds at level 99?

Edited by Afith, 09 May 2020 - 12:23 PM.

[AaronP2W]

Two ring of muscle already adds about 200-300 damage right now WoE damage.

 

Can you show me the math? 

Edited by AaronP2W, 09 May 2020 - 12:37 PM.

[Afith]

Can you show me the math? 

 

Yeah yeah nice try. 

 

We tested this all, you don't get to come here and try to fool everyone. 

 

The Str% factor picks up all the str including in options accessory headgears and weapons. 

 

This is not good, must be capped to stats. Don't worry, when you build your megs, you will still be strong because of the status atk it gives is like almost most of the str stats of other classes. 

Edited by Afith, 09 May 2020 - 12:41 PM.

[VModCinnamon]

Stay on topic please.

If users wish to discuss certain mechanic in extensive detail to use the appropriate section of the forums. Otherwise keep it to feedback of Sakray testing, Sakray should be ONLINE.

[AaronP2W]

I just checked on a spreadsheet and a meg adds 900-1200 damage, raising the damage from about 3,000-3,300 to 4,000-4,300 against a target with 40% demi, 50% woe reduction, 125 defense.

It's not a game-breaking increase, and it's not going to "1-shot" people as you've said multiple times. Meg probably won't even be put on knights in trans woe's. 

Edited by AaronP2W, 09 May 2020 - 12:45 PM.

[Ashuckel]

the status atk is a bigger "offender" than the str in the skill formula '-'

The str factor alone will be in most cases a 15% ish increase only.

Edited by Ashuckel, 09 May 2020 - 12:45 PM.

[Afith]

I just checked on a spreadsheet and a meg adds 900-1200 damage, raising the damage from about 3,000-3,300 to 4,000-4,300 against a target with 40% demi, 50% woe reduction, 125 defense.

It's not a game-breaking increase, and it's not going to "1-shot" people as you've said multiple times. Meg probably won't even be put on knights in trans woe's. 

 

IDK about your spreadsheet, we aren't here to look at those, we are here for testing. 

 

And I am saying what was our experience during the test. You should do your tests. try removing and putting on two ring of muscle, its that simple.

 

And we are only talking about one Megs in this case. How much more if two Megs? 

 

One Meg alone gives 59Str at level 99. You think is it good that the Str% factor pick that up on top of the Str bonus from all other gears? 

 

Hence it is a must be capped at some numbers, 99 stat is my suggestion, but who knows maybe they raise the cap. 

 

But it must be capped no doubt. 

[Ashuckel]

If you don't care about numerical data wich is accurate because damage formulas are known, then it's pointless to further the discussion.

[Afith]

the status atk is a bigger "offender" than the str in the skill formula '-'

The str factor alone will be in most cases a 15% ish increase only.

 

Yeah it is roughly 15% total damage boost. So still that's not small on top of the status atk it gives.

 

Right now around 6-8k damage in pvp on a full reducts target max or maybe more idk I haven't seen what the big guilds use. Wouldn't one meg one shot all other classes? 8k(damage without megs) then + add the 59 status atk in the calculation and then the 15% boost in the final damage. That would deal up to 11k(just an estimate). One shotting all class except swordman class. That would be a total mess and this is just ONE Meg.

 

So you being the expert here, what do you think, is this even going to be balance even after trans? 

[Afith]

If you don't care about numerical data wich is accurate because damage formulas are known, then it's pointless to further the discussion.

 

That's not what I mean, I'ts not that I care, everybody knows your engineered formula. 

 

But as Campitor said, it will be checked in the open because it appears there is hidden factor something. 

 

Calculation sure, but nothing beats actual testing. 

[Ashuckel]

Yeah it is roughly 15% total damage boost. So still that's not small on top of the status atk it gives.

 

Right now around 6-8k damage in pvp on a full reducts target max or maybe more idk I haven't seen what the big guilds use. Wouldn't one meg one shot all other classes? 8k(damage without megs) then + add the 59 status atk in the calculation and then the 15% boost in the final damage. That would deal up to 11k(just an estimate). One shotting all class except swordman class. That would be a total mess and this is just ONE Meg.

 

So you being the expert here, what do you think, is this even going to be balance even after trans? 

The game is not supposed to be balanced around people having God items. They are the outliars, they are meant to be powerful/broken. They take a ridiculous amount of time and effort to be made, and can have it's creation denied by others even.

[1299150619045824270]

The game is not supposed to be balanced around people having God items. They are the outliars, they are meant to be powerful/broken. They take a ridiculous amount of time and effort to be made, and can have it's creation denied by others even.

 

True, but it wasn't the God item we are nerfing. It's the BS skill formula isn't it?

[TwilightsCall]

Can we get the Santa reset NPC on Sakray working again? He's there, but doesn't do anything. Might help to have stat resets to test out Brandish, since Strength is so important for Brandish damage.

[VModCinnamon]

Can we get the Santa reset NPC on Sakray working again? He's there, but doesn't do anything. Might help to have stat resets to test out Brandish, since Strength is so important for Brandish damage.

 

Yes, the staff can take a look at that since character deletion is kind of bugged on Sakray server.

[AaronP2W]

 

Right now around 6-8k damage in pvp on a full reducts target max or maybe more

 

You realize there's numerous trans skills that are going to 1 shot everyone in pvp with no megs right? 

Edited by AaronP2W, 09 May 2020 - 05:35 PM.

[lilrey]

You realize there's numerous trans skills that are going to 1 shot everyone in pvp with no megs right?

Some maybe but they are not AoE as you said, am I missing something?

[Minicherry]

watched a replay of todays woe, vit sin got 1 shotted by landmine from a hunter. 13k damage IN WOE environment.  but brandish is broken? 

honestly leave everything alone. people are still discovering builds and tactics. (if this clip is included in the final woe video i will post it for u to see)

[GetsugaHollow]

watched a replay of todays woe, vit sin got 1 shotted by landmine from a hunter. 13k damage IN WOE environment.  but brandish is broken? 

honestly leave everything alone. people are still discovering builds and tactics. (if this clip is included in the final woe video i will post it for u to see)

Compare a static trap on the ground with a skill that can be targeted anywhere and will hit a crowd? Did you know that traps divide your damage when you hit more than one opponent?

[Minicherry]

Compare a static trap on the ground with a skill that can be targeted anywhere and will hit a crowd? Did you know that traps divide your damage when you hit more than one opponent?

And BS can be completely Negated with Penuma or Defence Aura. u cant mitigate trap damage, it also is AOE and INVISIBLE. so 13k damage trap thats invisible is cool with you ?

 

BUT that skill is fine. 8k Back stabs are fine.  G-fist killing MVP cards is fine. HOLY CROSS zero delay is fine. Sonic blow SPAM 7k venom is fine. 

 

but 3-4k brandish is BROKEN. 

 

lol if ur cool with 13k land mines IN WOE , why are we crying over 3-4k brandish spear ?? 

 

and once trans comes out, almost every class will have 1 hit kill move
 

Sniper: falcon Assult 

SinX: EDP sonic blow OR Soul Destroyer

Whitesmith: HIgh speed CART RAM SPAM

ALCHEMIST: ACID DEMONSTRATIOn

Bard and dancer: VULCAN ARROW

 

all of these skill will one shot people but 3-4k brandish spear is broken????